Katanagatari

This show sucked. The most deeply unsatisfying ending I've ever come across.

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I think it had quite the satisfying ending OP. Are you perhaps upset that Togame died?

There are some people who really liked it and some people who thought it was ok. Both opinions depend wildly on your personal preferences.

Seriously too deep for you and no, not in the meme sense. You pretty much missed the entire damn point of the series and probably didn't even pay attention to the dialogues. The ending was built up from the damn start.

I understood it, it doesn't mean I can't hate it.

>Are you perhaps upset that Togame died?
Yes. I don't care about any enlightenment worldly renunciation muh cycle of meaningless violence bullshit. Togame should have won. Or at the very least Shichika should avenge her, even if Togame doesn't want him to.

Yes, I know she was sincere in her deathbed confession. It doesn't matter.

>show builds up and hints the character's fall from the beginning
>character falls at the end
>gets upset

> Togame should have won.
Of course. Fucking waifufags and shipperfags don't care about a proper narrative structure as long as they get their bullshit pairing.

>he thinks Hitei was deserving of her significance in the story
I don't understand how anyone could be this retarded and then talk about proper narrative structure. Her character did nothing to deserve its weight in the story, she was barely involved all throughout right up until the end where suddenly she supplants Togame. Yes, she's a parallel and a foil for her, but that doesn't mean Togame's emotional resonance transfers or dissipates. The response Shichika denies is still felt by the viewer, the post credit scene is offensive. You could argue that's what makes the message effective, and I won't argue, but that doesn't make it satisfying. In fact it's frustrating as hell and I resent it!
>tfw absolutely ass ravaged
I thought the show was beautiful, right until it neared the end. And I can only assume this acceptance of yours is posturing, a look at me, I understood the basic motif of the story so that must mean I've internalized it, hahaha, faggot sort of thing.

I too, thought she shouldn't have died.
I thought the love she seemingly faked would be strong enough to overcome any plans/objectives/selfishness she had built up until that point.

BEST GIRL WINS

>Or at the very least Shichika should avenge her, even if Togame doesn't want him to.
Did you not actually watch the final episode or something?

>should have won
Oh, you're one of those kind of retards.

I don't mean won in some retarded waifu sense, I mean it in terms of the plot. She should have had her revenge exacted, instead of Hitei getting her way (either way), who we basically know nothing about and have no investment in. Not only would that have been more suitable, it would have been more interesting too.

Again, this has nothing to do with what's thematically appropriate, it's a question of what's appropriate given the established characterizations and the story's execution. It doesn't matter that Togame was a sword trying to wield another sword, I don't care that everything in the story contributed this this denouement, the fact remains that Togame was fleshed out while her replacement was not, it makes the only function the latter actually carries out in the story repugnant. A complete person? An end to history? Yeah, whatever.

I distrust anyone who claims to like such an inhuman ending because it means one of 3 things. Either they simply misunderstood it, or they didn't understand and are pretending to, or they're some kind of buddhist monk. Are you a buddhist monk, user?

Another monk, no doubt.

Its literally a story about failure OP. Your feelings don't change that.

No, but it does change if it's a good story.

>She should have had her revenge exacted, instead of Hitei getting her way (either way), who we basically know nothing about and have no investment in. Not only would that have been more suitable, it would have been more interesting too.
Why do you think this.

>Another monk
What does OP means by this?

I don't know why you hated the ending, it was unexpected and wrapped everything up really well. The ending was what made the series good and memorable instead of just ok.

please use spoilers for good shows nu-Sup Forums

>please use spoilers for good shows nu-Sup Forums
The anime ended ages ago.

>She should have had her revenge exacted
Why? You ARE that kind of retard. "oh I really liked this girl she should have had her happy ending". Seriously. Get fucked. Go read some Greeks or dead Russians instead of shitting up this board with your infantile tantrums.

>please use spoilers
The OP itself starts the discussion of the ending, if you open this thread without having watched it you've only got yourself to blame.

>The most deeply unsatisfying ending I've ever come across.
You must be 18 or older to post on this website

A lot of reasons, for one it'd also let us witness her ultimate scheme, whatever her plan was all this time, and more importantly what comes after. This would actualize the question of if Togame would really kill Shichika when confronted with the moment to do so. The ending we got instead was if not forced at the very least abrupt.

Togame's triumph could have afforded a lot more room in the story to explain things that went unexplained too. We still don't know who Emonzaemon really was (besides a mirror for Shichiki, yes, thanks 2deep4u retards) or the significance of his mask, or why the 11th sword possession didn't work in the last episode on the Emperor's subordinate like it did on Hououh, or what he even intended all this time, or why the Maniwa village was wiped out, etc etc etc. In fact had the story taken this alternative route it would have been a lot more consistent imo, the other prior episodes each had a character of the day that was very Bebopesque, we heard their story and were invested in it before its resolution. Yet so many main characters and elements in the last episode go unresolved, hence the ending being unsuitable, uninteresting, and abrupt.

The lesson you should take from this is that things that you don't like WILL happen.

is this the "give a hapy ending to the losers" anime?

Please read and understand posts before responding to them.

>We still don't know who Emonzaemon really was
Doesn't it explicitly state that he was raised and trained alongside Hououh, implying that they were either childhood friends or brothers?

>or why the 11th sword possession didn't work in the last episode on the Emperor's subordinate like it did on Hououh
Hououh's ninpou is what enabled the possession.

Katanagari does a good to make me appreciate Shaft adapting most of Nisio's work.

>Hououh's ninpou is what enabled the possession.
This is never said, only that it's ironic that he gets possessed given the nature of his technique and his name.
>Doesn't it explicitly state that he was raised and trained alongside Hououh, implying that they were either childhood friends or brothers?
It's hinted at but there's nothing explicit about it. This explanation alone does nothing to reconcile questions of the mask, or his murdered clan over 100 years ago.

The prologue literally says "just kidding, it didn't matter at all". It's not satisfying and it's not good writing.

>TELL ME ABOUT EMONZAEMON, WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK?

Epilogue, I'm retarded.

>Hououh's ninpou is what enabled the possession.
Ok but then why does Kiki Shikizaki murder all the woman and children in birdman's village?

we know

Your problem for getting sucked into watching shit. At least I have the excuse of watching it when it was new and couldn't know better.

Having the main character pair up with another girl, specifically the girl that was in conflict with the past romantic interest who is now dead, is yes, probably not the best way to handle an ending which gets its emotional power for the longing of said dead romantic interest

He should have simply moved on by himself, there was no need for her to pair up with him.

Expected discussion but got this, sasuga Sup Forums. The only thing this show really had going for it were some decent webm worthy scenes.

>30minutes of mundane character interaction
>10 minutes of actual plot
>then MAYBE you get to watch a fight
Then at the final episode they shit the bed killing the only appeal the show had left. At least we got to see the MC get serious.

>there was no need for her to pair up with him.
look at the image of the two here
the princess wears her old servants mask in her hair, which she cut short like Togame

Shichiki's scar around his eye is shaped exactly like Togame's ambitious eye and he wears those bindings similar to how she did

both servant and master are mirrored in the show, the one's that survive are the ones who aren't ruled by their history and are thus "complete people" represented by the mixing or coming together of the opposing factions

in essence they hook up because she represents Togame, if I remember right their names even have reverse meanings, the princess's name means forgiveness while Togame's means the opposite, Enzo-whatever arbitrarily served his master while Shichiki became a real person with his own will

Well thought symbolism doesn't make up for a disappointing finale where nothing mattered.

>life is a journey not a destination
2deep4me

the show is literally a 12 hour bumper sticker with fewer FPS

It's been a long time since I've seen the show so this might be wrong, but isn't the significance of Emonzaemon's mask that Houou stole his face?

It was a great ending you retarded waifufag shipper scum.

>character can move and react faster than the speed of sound demonstrated in one of his main fights
>too slow to sense a buller coming at his waifu

>the significance of his mask
He has a mask because he literally has no face.

> Or at the very least Shichika should avenge her

What is there to avenge? Shichika and Togame both understand that Togame brought all this shit onto herself because she couldn't move on from her past or from her scheming.

If you think she should have won and lived just because you liked her then you're fucking retarded.

None of the characters in Katanagatari act like real people.

There's nothing more like real people than being a complete fucking failure

> they hook up because

Is this ever actually confirmed or is it just a cuck meme? From the show at least all I really got was that both Shichika and Hitei remembered Emonzaemon and Togame respectively within their hearts by carrying their momento's, and Hitei was basically just tagging along with Shichika because she has nothing better to do now and he doesn't really care either way.

He couldn't dodge Emonzaemons bullets during their duals either, it could be that Entou Ju's bullets go faster than Shichika does.

I'm too much of a brainlet to understand the nuances of Katanagatari, but all I know is that Hime is best girl. And fittingly she also has the best theme music.

youtu.be/jRgf4Hsf6r4

>literal autism
Then Togame shouldn't have tried to avenge her father either according to you, huh?

What's there to avenge is humanity, what is there if not for revenge?

What's the point of doing anything if you don't care about anything and are going to fuck the woman who murdered your love the day after she kills her?

>If you think she should have won and lived just because you liked her then you're fucking retarded.
literally no-one itt has said that

Yeah, didn't this prick steal it?

But it still have the best fight in history of anime.
Nothing can beat Shichika Yasuri vs. Hakuhei Sabi.

>your waifu gets killed
>go on a rampage
>it's ok lmao, no biggie, let's hook up
Throwing 11 episodes out the window is not the best way to end a series. It may have been a good thought theme but it's execution was extremely poor.

>that episode where all the assassins go to kill his sister and talk about one last job before they retire and are all friends from decades of work together
>all get buried brutally

Well-thought*
Goddamn it.

>Maniwa Corps. are presented as this serious threat from the first episode
>after 12 episodes they only manage to get 1 sword
>the only thing they ever do in the show is die usually instantly or for no reason
>still take up half the show

magical future sword guns
ain't gotta explain shit

That was my least favourite episode
It was basically death flags the 50 minute motion picture

this show was nisio's peak prove me wrong

Eh try Eva tv series. There is your unsatisfying ending right there.

>durrf why dont he just stop the bullets
Start by understanding what narrative is.

>He couldn't dodge Emonzaemons bullets during their duals either, it could be that Entou Ju's bullets go faster than Shichika does.
He ate those bullets because he wanted to. The man had a death wish.

He resolved to take the bullets, but it's not like he was just standing there getting shot.

Why didn't he just stand still then?

>30minutes of mundane character interaction
Fuck you nigger of niggers, this was part of what made the show good. Watch a flavor-of-the-month shonen anime featuring "MY FRIENDS ARE MY POWER" and "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" if you want to have 0 minutes of character interaction and 30 minutes of substanceless fights.

Togame ordered him not to get hurt in fights and not to break all the deviant blades, so he went to break all the deviant blades and also get himself maimed/killed in the process. He just happened to meet the only individual capable of hurting him on the final floor and final blade.
Also what this guy said.

so could he kill his sister if he didn't have to hold back?

Almost no anime character act like real people.

After the trainwreck that was Juuni Taisen, I'm thoroughly convinced that people who say Nisioisin's writing is good have brain issues.

I feel like that was more the adaption than what it was based on, even then just because someone makes some duds it doesn't mean they can't be good. He made Medaka Box for fucks sake, that's even worse.

I stopped caring about happy endings a while ago. It makes a lot of shows much more enjoyable.

>the adaption than what it was based on
Exact same shit, really
>chapter about zodiac sign
>backstory and barely anything else
>dies (or does he)

>exact same shit really
No it isn't, look at Berserk 2016

It comes down to the writer's judgement on story telling to write something that isn't trash. Juuni Taisen and Medaka Box are proof that Nisio's ability to write a good story is highly inconsistent and/or not nearly as great as his fans should believe.

A defense against Juuni Taisen could be that the story works better in print than a visual medium, however, I don't believe the format of introducing a character, their special abilities, and then getting them killed immediately after is good story telling, even if it was to serve as a subplot to the story of Nezumi.

You misunderstood him. The adaptation is accurate to the story's writing, it doesn't stray from the narrative or reconstruct what is already written.

>Juuni Taisen and Medaka Box are proof that Nisio's ability to write a good story is highly inconsistent and/or not nearly as great as his fans should believe.
Agreed, to say his writing isn't good is also wrong though. I really don't like such a blanket statement just because one show is shit or the inverse, either.

>I feel like that was more the adaption than what it was based on
I agree. I came away from Katanagatari entertained but with a lot of unanswered questions. I then found out that the source materials answers almost all these questions. It's not a bad adaption, but it omitted important information.

>None of the characters in Katanagatari act like real people.
That's kind of the point? It's presented as a myth.

I'm a real autistic person and sword guy is literally me.

For real.

Mary Sue Man Character's little gauntlet he ran at the end with The Power of Shounen was absolute trash too.

Haven't seen the show in years and the only good thing about it was the first five episodes.

Togame was shit.
MC was shit.
Anti-Togame was meh.
Epic Ninja Man But His Sword Is a Gun XDD was shit too.

Literally everything sucked but the animation and some of the side characters.

6/10

That was one of the best endings I've ever seen. Togame gets what she deserves. Despite seeing signs along the way that their relationship was completely one sided and built upon manipulation, you receive FULL closure. You see completed kyotoryu demolish every milestone that had marked the journey so far, effortlessly. Even the subtle change in the shade of his eyes to mark his berserker mode was just so powerful. You have fucking shit taste OP.

I liked it

forever cemented nisio as a giant hack in my eyes.

>You have fucking shit taste OP

Is very likely some shipper faggot, proper standards are alien to those nutjobs. It's like those guys making TG threads just to say that shipping is the only good thing about it.

Continuing on because I can't help myself. You even have shichika berating and insulting the cookie cutter generals that's get assembled at the end as to why they're inferior to the real generals that he faced along the way. Which, if you have been enjoying the series and the characters (all of them are incredibly interesting and well thought out IMO) along the way that should only add to how much you are enjoying seeing him just obliterate these impostors on his way up the tower. There's so much they did to make that ending sequence as good as possible. I convinced one of my normie friends to watch it with me, the dialogue heavy aspect of the show was a bit much for him but he said that was one of the best endings he's ever seen in any kind of media.

I disagree with you on Katanagatari being bad. But this season's Juuni Taisen was unbelievably bad. It's hard to imagine the same guy was connected to both projects but I guess that's the essence of being a hack.

Even if you assume Shichika was fast enough to deflect bullets (which he isn't, as seen in the final fight), he had never seen or heard of a gun before in his entire life. He had no way of knowing the shiny black thing on Emonzaemon's hands would penetrate Togame from afar.

>But this season's Juuni Taisen was unbelievably bad
Didn't that start out really strong? Sup Forums was raving about it for a while.

No one post it yet.

>Togame gets what she deserves. Despite seeing signs along the way that their relationship was completely one sided and built upon manipulation,
>it's manipulation if you offer someone a choice and they accept

>"Make it so cheerio becomes an expression for rage" says Togame before dying

>"Don't kill me"
>"Sorry, but I have to make an example out of you"
>Shichika yells "Cheerio" before fucking killing the emperor

10/10 Kino would watch again.

Yeah, it had a strong start but it just got worse as it went on. Culminating in an ending that makes me wonder whether Nisio was actually just trolling people.

>I understood it
>Or at the very least Shichika should avenge her, even if Togame doesn't want him to.
These two lines contradict each other.

You clearly didn't understand it. Next thing you know, you're going to tell us that Hitei ordered the hit.

I might have to watch it just to see what it was all about.

It's only fun to post it on threads where there are people that haven't watched it.

Brings a tear to my eye every tiem

Are you dumb? She strung him along the whole time. Telling him to love her when he has no concept of what a proper reciprocating relationship is. "You can touch my hair sometimes and come in the bath with me, oh teehee don't you love me so much? Cheerio!" Simply having a choice in a matter does not make you free from manipulation. I hope you don't get taken advantage of too often in life user.

>Then Togame shouldn't have tried to avenge her father either according to you, huh?
When it started destroying her life and any human connection she could make? Yes. She was a broken person that could never actually experience happiness because revenge was the only she could think about. This is what the whole fucking Sage episode was about.

>What's the point of doing anything if you don't care about anything and are going to fuck the woman who murdered your love the day after she kills her?
First of all, they're traveling together everything about the end tells us that they're both hung up on Togame/Emonzaemon and are traveling together because they both have nothing left. Second, Emonzaemon killed Togame of his own volition to protect Hitei. Hitei never ordered her death. In fact, Togame was the closest thing to a friend that Hitei had.

Man, out of the 20 or so shows I watched that aired this year Juuni Taisen is right down at the bottom fishing with ATOM the beginning as my worst show of the year. I'd really recommend you watch anything else, your time is worth more than that.

Best girl won at the end.

AOTC

This thread made me watch Juuni Taisen, I hope you guys are proud of yourselves