The first two routes of FSN is dumbed down to pander to the lowest common denominator...

The first two routes of FSN is dumbed down to pander to the lowest common denominator, which is why the more Tsukihime-esque HF route was so reviled by the people who weren't used to Nasu's style.

>VN about harem pornography
>not dumbed down to the lowest domino
Are you for real right now? Find something without poorly written characters if you want something that isn't dumbed down. For crying out loud. Find a different writer to shit on please.

They're not "dumbed down", they're just dumb.

>HF route was so reviled by the people
Excuse me? I've never seen people criticizing it here, except from the classic Rin vs Sakura shitposting.

HF is alright, the only problem is that Sakura doesn't even make the top three of best girl

I've seen a lot people shitposting about the serious tone of HF and regretting the chillness of Fate and the epicness of UBW.

Rhinos are just sore losers, that's not going to change user.

Remember the old "Mind of Steel" meme?

This is your brain on W O R M S L U T
>wormslutfags, not even once.
Each of the three routes is as valid as the other, and likewise each plays up different aspects of the story, just like it gives more focus to the respective love interest. Kindly refrain from further faggotry and kys.

Where did he criticize the validity of any of the routes?
Typical Rhinofag, can't even read properly.

Daily reminder to keep Rin away from bestgirl's mug.

>Dumbed down
>For plebs
>??
>B-but i'm not s-shittin' on 'em!
And i'm a proud Seibafag, you worm-wanking mongrel.

It involves harem pornography but that only accounts for maybe 1% of the entire novel, and yes a VN is actually a recognized medium by western normies now because of works like F/SN

Thought they only cared about it when Doki Doki came out.

Why do you expect me to care exactly?

>Still can't quote anything from OP criticizing the validity of a route.
>Quotes shit that isn't even there.
Don't lie, you're no Saberfag.

Doki Doki came out like yesterday.
Normies have been playing VNs since Clannad came to Steam.

It's been like 4 years since I played it but I would say

Heaven's Feel >>> UBW >> Fate

>So you have to suffered from rape worns all your life while I got to chill out in a mansion?
>lol I don't give a shite just get over it lmao
Why is Rin such a shitty sister?

>Literally push the fat man to save the people the train is about to run over but the fat man has boobs
>intelligent

More like
>Have sex with the fat man every single night so the train doesn't run over anyone

She was originally intended to be an antagonist, I guess some of that personality was kept.

I have no regrets, this is the only path.

No, the main complaint since its been translated was how damn long the route takes to get going.

I find a lot of VNs can be like that in general and it makes me wonder how many good ones I've missed out on from not being able to continue.
My patience is pretty low.
The beginning of Higurashi was so bad for that.

>She was originally intended to be an antagonist,

Explain

They should have stuck to the original plan where Rin died in the finale of HF. Her and Sakura suddenly making up due to a single hug after Rin had done everything in her power to ruin Sakura's life was an awful copout.

Well, part of the issue is that the story insists on showing all fifteen days. But another problem is that Nasu believes that it's important to establish what the characters' "normal lives" are like before destroying those days without mercy.

Kinoko Nasu's original story of Fate, Rin's original archetype was Misaya Reiroukan, she was designed to be a villainess and original master of Lancer in the novel. When Takashi Takeuchi convinced Nasu to change the setting of the story, Rin's role as a villain was eventually changed to one of the selectable heroines of Fate/stay night.

>Her and Sakura suddenly making up due to a single hug after Rin had done everything in her power to ruin Sakura's life was an awful copout.
Yeah I thought that was complete bullshit. Suddenly Rin can be forgiven for being a cunt for the whole route, right.

Things like a non-virgin heroine, Shirou growing out of his superhero obsession for her sake and the unreliable narration that makes the heroine look really twisted unless you realize it's actually reasonable reactions narrated in a way exaggerated by her own self-hatred and guilt complex. Nasu seemed to be afraid of making the narration too biased in her favor because of the controversial plot, but ended up going too far in the other direction and made people think she was just some selfish evil monster despite her actual spoken words and actions showing otherwise.

It's not like Rin was in the wrong. The needs of one girl don't outweigh the needs of the many. Killing her emotions and then killing Sakura were the "correct" choices. In the end, she was too weak to go through with it, so they had no choice but to gamble on Shirou.

If Sakura had any brains, she'd have to accept that killing her would have been the correct option. And she did. She knew that fully well.

Fate/stay night is a story about Shirou. It's about how Shirou feels about Saber. It's about how Shirou feels about his ideals. It's about how Shirou wants to protect what's important to him. It was always all about Shirou.

Shirou a cute!

Rin had a feeling the grail was behind it all from early on, though, so the fault is with her for refusing to deal with it and preferring to sacrifice Sakura instead. Sakura was resigned to her fate too, she just wanted her sister to have the decency not to spit in her face and seduce Shirou while killing her.

The simplest and most direct method was to kill Sakura. That's the most surefire way to take care of the problem before any more innocents are lost.

Choosing to save one girl you love even though that girl is a threat to humanity is the epitome of selfishness and evil. That's why Shirou had to throw away his ideals in order to save her.

Personally i liked the HF route most because i liked Sakura and it was great to find out there was a route for her, but the other routes were good as well, the Saber route was ok, Rin route brought new shit to the table and expanded plot and HF was the ultimate cherry on the top for me personally
But they are all still pretty good over all, i think you might have favoritism due ot waifuism?

>Hime-sama brat, step on my geintals and change your personality as soon as your pants drop!
>"Master-san is very dissapointed in you, now spread your legs for your master" "..." "just the way i like them"
>"I-i don't have messiah complex!, there there hero-kun is here for you now"

I hate that part of day 16 so fucking much. Sakura's realization that if Rin had also suffered then that meant she was weak for succumbing to angra was also shit.

I'm honestly not a fan of yamato nadeshiko type characters, so Sakura never appealed to me.

That type makes me diamonds, i never understood why people got so worked up about the Tsundere brats that act like a dick to the protagonist and then make a full turn around when their pants drop
But to each his own and different tastes create a good variety of characters in VN's, would be boring to have game with only 1 type of characters

Well it's all Sakura ever really wanted. I mean, aside from Senpai's dick that is. Rin throwing away the jeweled sword and embracing her even if it meant the end of the world was practically a dream come true for her. You gotta think about this from her perspective.

Suckyhime was much worse than any of the fate routes, though

Nothing wrong with Sakura unless you're a casual who just likes cardboard cutout action heroines like Rin. She's basically a Sacchin-type heroine.

>The simplest and most direct method was to kill Sakura. That's the most surefire way to take care of the problem before any more innocents are lost.
Sakura is an innocent too, and Rin's sister at that. The fact that Rin went out of her way to not just kill Sakura, but even try to NTR her in the process and rub it in her face makes her an absolute bitch.

Nope. Rin had a map to the cave that had the cote of the grail inside it. Destroying that would solve everything.

Ilya could live, the taint is gone forever, Zouken and Kirei lose any reason for living, and the threat of the wars every returning to threaten the populace is gone forever.

Killing Sakura only stops the taint from one source, but not the original source that tainted her in the first place. There is nothing you could day that refutes that.

>MC is a weak amateur who barely can fight
>keeps whining at the girls who are stronger than him that they shouldn't fight because they're women

>MC wants to become a superhero
>his future self appears and tells him that he shouldn't because it turned out to be impossible and led to him suffering eternally even in the afterlife
>JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE CORRECT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE RIGHT
>wow, you convinced me. go ahead, repeat my mistakes

>MC's future self gets completely skewered by swords without having any mana, which is vital to his existence
>somehow survives for several days and uses magic several times

HF's message of valuing home and friends and family over idealism and troubles of the world resonates with people in this time where everyone seems to be expected to be a political activist or whatever.

Having said that, Tsukihime had a fantastic atmosphere that FSN just can't capture. I'd say the silence and the ticking clock add to it, it's a less-is-more kind of thing.

>Nope. Rin had a map to the cave that had the cote of the grail inside it. Destroying that would solve everything.

Didn't Kiritsugu have bombs everywhere in Fuyuki?

One innocent isn't worth more than 7 billion people.

The Grail doesn't appear until six Servants are dead. Even if she went to the place, there would be no Grail to destroy.

It really feels like too little too late, though. Rin refused to even let her die on her own terms and insisted on treating Sakura like a monster who deserved to be put down like a dog. Sakura suddenly blaming herself and thinking she was the one who ruined everything was just stupid at best, and honestly a pretty disturbing thing to portray as some kind of epiphany considering Sakura's major flaw was being too quick to blame herself. For how crazy Dark Sakura is, her "fuck you, I'm finally standing up for myself and doing things my way, so deal with it" attitude was actually good development that could have gone without being reset.

The way i would have played the game is
>pretend to ally with Rin and Archer
>make secret alliance with Illiya with promise to give her life with my wish
>do the normal stuff with Rin and Archer keeping Saber in the dark for my plans
>wait for the right moment and command spell betray Archer and have Saber off him
>tell Rin to go home or get dead
>mop up the left overs and tell Illiya to command spell Berserker (he didn't have a proper wish anyway and would dissappear after)
>get grail, make Illiya into real grill, marry Sakura and raise Illiya as our adopted child
>happy end assuming Rin doesn't come to off me when Saber dissapears

That's the proper attitude a magus should have. She couldn't leave it up to Sakura since there was no guarantee that she'd be able to go through with it or even succeed if she did. So Rin had to kill her own emotions and make sure the job was done herself.

The irony is that Rin, out of all people, is the least capable of doing that.

Which was better, Archer in UBW or Kotomine in HF?

>make secret alliance with Illiya with promise to give her life with my wish

What if Rin/Archer found out?

Kotomine. Archer was a whiny flip-flopping letdown who didn't live up to the hype from the DEEN anime in the least. He didn't even use UBW other than to show off after betraying Caster.

No, the Ten no Sakazuki, the core, the very brain of the grail, is always there. The gate is the thing that doesn't show up until the appropriate number are dead.

Ilya even says the gate opened prematurely because Sakura absorbed Gil. She isn't made to be like she and Irisviel were, she was made to malfunction as a grail. Zouken even says this in the beginning of HF.

I assume he would do this suring one of the times where Illya meets shirou in the shopping district. Rin never found out about those.

If Rin/Archer combo some how found out i would just tell Saber to hold off Archer while i pistol whip Rin

If she didn't use that method, it means that she's not capable of destroying it in that state in the first place.

But there’s a flaw to your plan: Berserker can’t kill himself. He could do it maybe once or twice, but his God Hand makes him resistant to what killed him.

Then i would just betray Saber in the end and command spell her to hold still while Berserker off's her

Oh the irony.

Check out his Unlimited Codes ending

How does one destroy the great grail?

Ekusu...KYARIBAAAA

She has the map, but daddy Tohsaka didn't tell her the truth about the grail system before he died. Her intuition told her that the Shadow was a malfunction in the system, which was right. She just didn't follow that path because she fell for Kirei and Zouken's BS.

The irony is that only Zouken and the grails understand how fucked things were in the 4th war, and Zouken used those tainted shards from Iri to taint Sakura. The taint was never Sakura's fault. The system can be destroyed simply, Rin and Shirou with Waver do it post UBW without Servants.

HF was all about Zouken and Kirei taking advantage of the protags to get what they wanted. Why do you think Shirou punched Kirei in the face when he found out the truth?

>The irony is that only Zouken and the grails understand how fucked things were in the 4th war,

How bad were they? What would have happened if Saber didn't Ekusu...KYARIBAAAA the grail?

Nice try OP.

The original fans of F/SN were all MASSIVE fans of Tsukihime. Thats why F/SN had the initial massive hype following it It was the initial fans in both Japan and the West that disliked HF when it was first released.

Your secondaryfag levels of history revision are amusing to people who were there at the time.

You must be extremely new.

HF was unpopular upon release as was its heroine.

Rin is absolutely nothing like Misaya except in vauge appearance. Its an entirely new character. Please dont try to look for parallels in Fate/Prototype's characters and F/SN's. Everything about Fate/Prototype's characters were binned.

You break the cavern which is the magic circle.

>mfw Sakurafags get so savaged in normal threads that they have to create their own ones to spam their hilarious headcanons.

>Misaya Reiroukan is a noblewoman; she is sadistic, proud, elegant, cruel, and calculative. Though not much is shown, a line said by her during the montage in Fate/Prototype was "I wanted to summon a Hero who was killed by a woman. That way he would know how scary a woman can be."

Sounds like Rin to me

>Rin
>sadistic
>cruel
>calculative

So you havnt read F/SN and know nothing of Rin's character. Right.

Literally none of those traits except the emphasis on elegance apply to Rin, you mongoloid.

The definition of Tsun in the Tsundere

None of those traits are anything to do with "tsun" you silly fuck.

Just stop digging.

Okay, so:
- long dark hair
- thigh-highs
- red dresses
- used to wear prim and proper dresses in childhood
- wants to kick her servant's face in, when he refuses to follow her stratagems
- focused on elegance

Now guess who I described, Rin or Misaya

And she pleases old men for money too

No one is denying that the designs are similar in appearance, however you can relate that to both of them bearing resemblance to Azaka from KNK rather than Rin looking like Misaya.

Their personalities and role in their respective plots are fundamentally different however. This can not be argued against.

>looks similar to her
>therefore IT MUST BE HER

Newfag please. Every one of TMs main works has had a female that looks like Rin. They all descend from Azaka's appearance in KNK

>Azaka
>Akiha
>Misaya
>Rin

However in personality none of these girls are similar except for some skin-deep tsun tendencies.

So let's ignore the fact that Lancer in UBW says he would prefer to have Rin as his master. Which has absolutely nothing to do with Misaya having Lancer as a servant?

You know the connection is there, even Nasu knows it

Lets ignore the fact that Proto Lancer and F/SN Lancer sound, look and act entirely differently to eachother in the first place.

You are really grasping at straws.

And Proto Saber is a male.
Proto must have absolutely nothing to do with Nasu then

Nice try Fateshitter, but even Nasu himself would love to rewrite that mess, sure as hell is far from being as good as the other two routes.

You can like whatever you want, but that won't change the fact that H/F is objectively the best

Again, no one is denying that some elements of Misaya's design were given to Rin, mostly in appearance to concide with the "Azakaface meme" that TM loved to push.

But Rin was designed to be Rin. Everything about Fate/Prototyple was completely scrapped as far as its characters and plot go. Only some shallow remnants of the setting remain.

Rin was never planed as a villan in F/SN. Saying otherwise is retarded.

>Proto must have absolutely nothing to do with Nasu then

Who are you quoting?

Its objectively the worst since it took two very different routes and smashed them together. The resulting abortion was a convoluted mess.

>implying
F/SN was the first work Type Moon released as a company rather than as a doujin work, which attracted an entirely new audience. F/SN was to Tsukihime what FGO is to F/SN. People who had read Tsukihime were put off by the shallow writing of Fate and UBW, but loved HF.

If you're a Tsukihime fan, you know there's nothing wrong with a heroine not being a virgin, and that nightmares implying a main character is a killer turn out to be red herrings in the end. The people who whined about HF and Sakura have always been cancerous newfags, to the extent even Nasu mentions how the people bashing it were casuals who couldn't handle anything but straightforward stories.

Good thing the movies are cutting the Ilya shit.

Why is it supposed to be a convulted mess? It's because is not some linear shonenshit where the heroes of justice defeat some sunday morning villain through the power of love and justice?

>which attracted an entirely new audience

No.

Tsukihime was hugely popular and gained a huge following after its release. The hype mounted over 5 years and F/SN rode the wave of the hype it generated and then went on to generate its own hype.

Tsukihime being a doujin game did absolutely nothing to hinder the incredible popularity it garnered at the time.

And the overwhelming reaction of all the TM fans who played F/SN at the time was that HF was a bloated mess that didnt fit in with the rest of the game and featured a heroine far less sympathetic or likable than any of the Turkeyhandle heroines besides Ciel who had already become a meme at that point.

Sakura's lack of popularity also became something of a long running joke in Japan and can be seen in all major spinoffs such as Take Moon or All Around Take Moon or Crazy Clover Club.

Again, trying to revise history wont work when there are people here who were there at the start.

The Ilya shit was the only thing about HF that was bearable though.

The few scenes with Ilya that we get are far more heartfelt or memorable than anything featuring Sakura. Ilya's ultimate sacrifice at the end of the route solidified her as the heroine that HF deserved rather than the pathetic "You princess is in another castle" walking trope that was Sakura.

>It's because is not some linear shonenshit where the heroes of justice defeat some sunday morning villain through the power of love and justice?

Funny, since that is quite literally what happens in HF.

Through horrible butchery of the established plot; setting and characters, the hero focuses his extreme Saviour Complex on ONE DAMSEL IN DISTRESS and battles to save her from ALL THE EVILS IN THE WORLD moved on by THE POWER OF LOVE and essentially dies in the process

Pretty fucking Shonen to me

>not linear
A fair point as HFs best end is an off-shoot bad end in Sparks Linear High.

For this I give it credit.

Its best end is the one where everyone dies?

Yes. That ending had far more heart and soul than the whole rest of HF.

I know nothing about Fate outside of the fact that it's loosely based on myth and history.

I'm not expecting it to be a masterpiece, but would my interest in history and sword-fighting be enough to get me through the series, or is it shit on that front?

What is this, Sup Forums?

Do you like hamberger?
Do you like spaghet?
if answer is "si", then go right along to Cafe Omelette.

For all the meming, Nasu clearly puts a lot of research into the history of the mythical heros and figures that he uses. And the action is pretty awesome.