Nasuverse/TM

So was Altera Nasu's attempt at redoing Aristotles/Types? Because from Extella, it sure seems like it.

A lot of her character seems like a reworking of V/V and ORT, down to her being some kind of alternative reality ORT-tan.

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Not quite. Velber is an enemy of humanity, the Aristoteles are not alive enough to be considered enemies. Velber 02 was able to be humanized. In the end I don't think Nasu likes writing about the Aristoteles because they're too inanimate, and he's all about love and hate, emotions that they do not experience. Treating one like a foe is like treating a meteorite or a tsunami as an enemy, it doesn't hate you, it just kills you.
They're still going to be there but never feature in a major story.

I mean, you say that, but Velber 02 wasn't supposed to be humanized as Altera anymore than Type-Venus was supposed to be as V/V.
And even then, CMB seems to have demonstrated a fair range of human-like emotions, like making wagers with the people of Merem's village and treating fighting the demons he summoned like sport.

Maybe the latter is just the result of Nasu reworking the Type-Moon character concept between Notes and Tsukhime, but still, it seems somewhat consistent between what he did with the characters back then and what he did with Altera, to some degree.

Which is why I'd propose that Altera is his reworking of the humanized Aristotles, whilst the neutral ones presumably will remain canon without the same treatment, like you say.

Astounding how gets an entire thread of rare, real discussion deleted, but a "*blocks your path*" thread is ignored.

The Aristoteles are the Types. Types definitely still exist. Narita has been allowed to make repeated reference to them in the last few years, and I think there is a sideways and almost meta remark about them in Grand Order somewhere.

I'm not saying that they don't exist, just that Altera as a character is heavily based on some of the old ideas Nasu used for them, mostly V/V, ORT and maybe CMB in some sense.

Nobody here can prove you right or wrong, so.

It was mostly just an observation, really.
And an excuse to start a new thread, since the last one ended abruptly.

He should just bring them back instead of trying to shove some of their elements into Altera who's just kind of a mess as a concept. It's like Nasu wants to write about aliens but is too scared of going the whole way. Honestly, Japanese writers in general never seem to write about aliens who actually feel like aliens.

Nasu should do a lot of things, like finish Tsukhime R, continue DDD and Mahoyo, etc.

It's not like the Velber are actually inhuman. They're alien but they have personalities, likes, and dislikes, with their whole worshiping strength thing.

Well yeah, but even CMB is capable of that level of emotion. And Type-Venus was able to assimilate enough information about humanity to spawn V/V, somehow.

So now we've had demon gods, aliens and Lovecraftian horrors, what's next?

Time travelers, elves and Bodhisattvas.

Buddha already showed.

Not Buddha, I meant his disiciples. There are also more than just one Buddha.

>So was Altera Nasu's attempt at redoing Aristotles/Types? Because from Extella, it sure seems like it.
Not really. Sefar and the Velber are ayylmao's from out of the Sol system that just seem to hate sentient life in general. TYPE's are basically Gaia's cousins who she invited over to punish her rowdy kids. We've known there were other things outside of the solar system for a while.

Primordial Demons, maybe. Like, rather than True or Imaginary Demons born from the world or humanity, beings born from the universe that are based on more broad conceptual things.

What the FUCK happened to the nasuverse these last few years. Aliens from outside the solar system? All these AIDS fate games? No melty Blood HD? No new Tsukihime 2/RE info in YEARS?
Fuck the Mushroom

>Aliens from outside the solar system?
This has always been a thing though.

Outside of types?

Not him, but it'd be pretty silly to assume that there would only be life and things like TYPE's in Sol. Otherwise, the earliest I can remember a direct nod to other aliens is probably CCC, when Gilgamesh brings Hakuno to some orgy planet to party.

Not really confirmed but it's assumed if TYPES exist then surely aliens exist. There was also that thing in CCC's ending with Gil.

Life has to be incredibly common in the Nasuverse if every major planet (and a dwarf planet) has a Type.

Beast are the new TYPES, since fgo babies knew jack shit about ORT and his firends Nasu had to find something else. Hence shit like Solomon, Beasts and Altera.

Types were never as huge of a thing as people hoped though. They're a thing in Tsukihime but the notable ones are ORT, who doesn't act, and Type Moon/Archetype Earth, which isn't quite the same as the other Types. So to blame it on any version of Fate is a bad rewrite of history.

> franchise called "Type-Moon"
> Type Moon is barely in it and hasn't been relevant in over a decade

What did they mean by this? If Type Moon ever appears in person there's a 100% chance he'll be a girl.

Nasu is pretty clear going into full chuu2 and meta in FGO2 and extella 2.

>No new Tsukihime 2/RE info in YEARS
Last TM ACE has info.

>Aristoteles are not alive enough to be considered enemies.
I think you mean sentient instead of "alive". From a narrative standpoint, a sentient, nonliving entity can be an enemy, e.g. Skynet.

>because they're too inanimate
This makes even less sense. While "inanimate" can mean "not alive" in a narrow sense, the more general meaning is "not moving, growing or doing". Tsunamis, meteors, thunderstorms and fire are never described as inanimate. If something is truely inanimate it can only be passively dangerous, like a spiked pitfall trap or patch of black ice.

How come altera seems to break a sweat against everyone when she has a literal sword from a god?

FGO2 probably gonna have Amaterasu as the final boss.

Dinosaurs

Or Nasu could have used them in fgo instead he rectonned Tsukihime, Notes and everything that isn't fate which further prove my point.

Gods get btfo by everyone in this verse. Also she must not seem to much stronger than Saber to please retarded fans.

World War I/II leaders and generals.

That's blatantly wrong.
FGO exists in a different universe than both Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night. Nothing has been retconned, they simply don't overlap because their worlds developed differently.

>Fate/Stay Night.
No.

Same thing happens to Saber and plenty of other Servants. There's plenty of Divine Constructs around, and plenty of people that can fight against them.

Has he really though? Other than Angry Manjew mentioning ORT, we just don't hear about TYPEs in Fate stuff. That doesn't mean they're not there though.

Not sure what you're saying no to, the title?

ORT was mentioned in S/F.

FSN part of FGO.

Oh. Nasu clarified on his blog about the different worlds.
Fate is the world that affirms human history while Tsukihime is the world that denies/censors human history. Strange/Fake, like FGO, is a mixture of the two.

Cool ignoring Nasu saying fgo is new canon. But keep defending this garbage and maybe you'll all get a new Saber. There is quite a lack of them lately.

FGO is canon, just like Fate is and just like Tsukihime is. I'm pointing out that you can't call something retconned if it exists in a different universe.

because the 'small' altera that you use as a servant, only has a fraction of the power of her actual 'huge' self

thats why you get shit with gilgamesh claiming that only if she turned into her velber form would she stand a chance against him.

tamamo's true form can't even be summoned as a servant because she is too powerfull for the grail
hell tamamo with just 3 of her tails makes her top tier. with all 9 of them she is close to her true form

That isn't Heroic Spirit Altera anymore.
Could Altera as a Servant come close to beating Gilgamesh?

You have no idea what you're fucking talking about; shut the fuck up.

i would say yes. as during gameplay i rape gil's pathetic ass easy.
but the game goes out of it's way with the cutscenes to make it seem he isn't even trying and servant altera giving it her all

In a proper Grail War, I imagine Gilgamesh would fight her seriously. And in that case she doesn't have anything to stop him with, just brute force.

She would probably fare no better than Arturia.

She'd fare worse I bet, since Gilgamesh had an interest in Artoria.

Only a few regular servants can reasonably fare against Gil outside of extenuating circumstances. IIRC it's Ozy and King Hassan. Maybe Merlin too, I dunno.
Solomon is obviously in a tier of his own.

Great argument right there. You sure showed me. Get the fuck out tard and come back once you can formulate coherent sentences.

As a servant no, but as the White Titan Gil's dad had to beg her not to wreck Uruk. Gil has to honour that agreement, obviously he's not too happy about it.

Enkidu is the only one who can match him. Solomon too, but we've only seen him as a Grand so I'm not sure how he'd do as a normal Caster. Alcides is fairing pretty well, but he's highly irregular.

Servants like Ozy, Grandpa Hassan, Karna, Romulus, Lancer Arturia, and other high tier ones and Grand candidates would force him to go all out and give a good showing, but still probably lose.

You do realize that the multi-verse thing is the oldest form of retcon there is? And he still chose to create new things instead of using already introduced concepts/characters. Why do you think it is? Or maybe you actually think Nasu keeps TYPES for Tsukihime 2 or a new IP? Get fucking real, he rectonned those things in oblivion using the multiverse as an excuse for disregarding them from now on. And fgo is more canon that the rest since now every fate release will have his lore based on what was introduced in GO.

what does gil think about the other saber 'clones'?
nero and gil dislike each other, because they both have a massive ego.
but what does gil think about mordred for example? or any of the other arturia version?

Altera's stats are about on par with Arturia (depending on who the latter's master is, anyways). Arturia seems to have the better class skills and overall better NP's though.

Is this from something? Or is it just a one-off by some drawfag?

>but what does gil think about mordred for example? or any of the other arturia version?
You know what he thinks about Fakers.

So you don't know what a retcon is, thanks for sharing.

The only Saber variant that can beat Gil is Santa Alter, by not visiting him or giving him any presents.

Thanks for your opinion. You can now go back to school and ask your teacher what "argumentative reply" means. You could then stop ridiculing yourself and share actual opinions.

>Arturia seems to have the better class skills and overall better NP's though.
Only lorewise.

probaly a one off.
bikini mordred is based on Rider Class mordred from FGO

>I don't like that Type Moon uses multiverses despite them existing since Tsukihime. Therefore, I'm calling it a retcon

It's literally not what a retcon is. This isn't me arguing, you're just factually incorrect.

Oh, so you actually did not read my post. I should have expected that.

Ado Edem as a Lancer servant fucking when?

Lorewise is what matters. Its hilarious what FGO did to a skill like Instinct which is super fucking broken in reality.

>Nasu ever going back to Notes
>In fgo
You sure are an hopeful user.

Altera means "The soaring one".

I hope the mystery of who fired Excallibur at the White Titan is cleared up in later games

Spirit: Altera/Attila
Master: Hakuno Kishinami
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Strength: B
Mana: B
Endurance: A
Luck: A
Agility: A
N. Phantasm: A++
Class skills:
Magic Resistance: B
Riding: A
Divinity: B
Personal skills:
Military Tactics: B
Natural Body: D
Familiar Creation: EX
Star Emblem: EX
Noble Phantasms:
Teardrop Photon Ray - Anti-Army/Anti-Fortress - A++

with arturia it's harder to place.
with Rin as her master, her stats are overal higher, but with kiritsugu she technicly also has Avalon.
shirou as a master giver her the lowest stats.

You've reduced this discussion beyond any amount of actual discourse at this point. All you're doing is saying I'm not reading your posts or that I can't argue, despite the fact that in Nasuverse canon, it all still counts. Now if you want to discuss retcons? Tsukihime used to exist alongside Fate, and the two were later made incompatible. That's a retcon. Assassins summoned could only be one of the Hassans, and we're later told that's only a rule of the Fuyuki HGW. That's a retcon. But Types not being prominent in media? That's a narrative decision to not focus on them. That doesn't mean they don't or can't exist, or that they were in media and then they got rewritten.

Let's put it simply in case that's too much for you: The writer not focusing on [thing you like] doesn't mean they retconned it.

JRR Tolkein servant when? If Shakes and Hans can be servants then so should the father of the fantasy genre.

Spirit: Arthoria Pendragon/King Arthur
Master: Rin Tohsaka
Aligment: Lawful Good
Strenght: A
Endurance: B
Agility: B
Mana: A
Luck: A+
N. Phantasm: A++
Class Skills:
Magic Resistance: A
Riding: B
Personal Skills:
Charisma: B
Instinct: A
Mana Burst: A
Noble Phantasms:
Excalibur - Anti Fortress A++
Invisible Air - Anti Unit C

with kiritsugu
her strenght is B, her endurance A, Agility A, Mana A, Luck D and N.P is A++
class skills is the same only her riding is A rank instead of B.
personal skills are the same
N.P. she also has Avalon - Barrier EX.

With Rin she gets A/B/B/A/A+/A++
With Kiritsugu she gets B/A/A/A/D/A++

A ranked MR, A ranked instinct, and A ranked mana burst are no joke. Invisible Air is also a fairly versatile tool.

At a glance Altera and Arturia have similar stats. I think Arturia's personal and class skills make her the better fighter though.

If Arturia was actually allowed access to Avalon consistently, she'd probably be viewed as a much higher tier Servant.

She didnt have access to Avalon whilst with Kerry. Kerry kept it all to himself.

>he rectonned those things in oblivion using the multiverse as an excuse for disregarding them from now on.
Don't forget the OP, as I said Nasu rectonned TYPEs into Beasts.

while excalibur gets launched from the sword.
altera's sword works different (she can actualy make any item turn into her sword)
the massive beam doesn't come from the sword itself, instead she uses it as a targeting mechanism. the actual beam comes from the God Mars himself (she kicked his ass and took his sword), so the beam is actually an angry mars trying to blast altera but she directs the beam to what ever she points at

youtube.com/watch?v=tHiZBXaedUs

Why do they keep cucking avalon from /ourgirl/

The red coat was better.

>butthurt Mars tries to blast that dumb alien grill with an orbital strike and only proceeds to get angrier cuz she plays him like a fiddle

It's dumb because he should realize that he's being baited after the x amount of times he's been sending the beam and she's still alive

He probably is just hoping she fucks up. She uses her own mana to redirect the beam, so I'd imagine if she tried to use it while too low, she wouldn't be able to and Mars would successfully nuke her.

mars was never said to be the smartest or most rational of the greek gods

It would heal her, but Artoria wouldn't be able to use Avalon's NP as a Servant as it would sever the Third Magic.

What? Did I miss something in your post, because she literally did that in Fate.

He is portrayed as the dumb and chaotic side of war so it makes sense that he still tries.

and then the 'servant' altera maybe gets destroyed.
the, actual big giant altera just makes a new 'servant' altera

or maybe mars just shoots the beams because he is afraid altera/velber will come back again and kick his ass again

The only time the inside of Avalon is accessed is in the Epilogue, which takes place some time after she's a Servant.

who poo archer here

dipped into my jeanne alter stock

Is altera the only female HS who beat the cock?

I'd rather have have Karna since i already have a million fucking Sabers and Archers but pretty much nothing else

Only if you never choose Male player characters

>dipped into my jeanne alter stock

Retard

It was a pretty pitiful amount anyways, enough for one thirty roll and I have confidence in my luck for useless things like shitty mobages considering I got scat and okita within five or six singles