Anyone else hoping to see Freeza make the transition to good-guy in this arc/over the following arcs...

Anyone else hoping to see Freeza make the transition to good-guy in this arc/over the following arcs. Imagine how fucking juicy a Freeza redemption plot could be, it'd be Vegeta development tier or higher. Am I alone here lads?

Eh, why not. Piccolo and Vegeta both made the jump, why not Frieza?

I want to say that Frieza is just too evil, and he's a complete piece of shit, but Vegeta was seemingly just as bad at beginning of Z, so who knows?

I think it's made pretty clear that Freeza has no good in him whatsoever when he attacks Goku at the end of their fight.

would be more meta to make you think he'd made the jump to good guy before ripping out blancos heart. It's a win/win for the writers, they can do whatever they want and Super fans will take either outcome

Bump. Is there hope for the emperor of evil?

I think it'd be less meta in a way because you completely expect that from him. Also Super writers seem afraid to actually kill characters, even fodder. Nobody gets deathbeamed through the heart anymore, like that one dog nigga who got shot in the ARM for some reason, dragon ball super is a kids show with no tension.

If he's complete evil with no good, Frieza is just a terrible character and I don't just mean his personality.

Yeah ToP is a boner-killer with weird rules
>i'm going to erase the losers from existence
>but no killing!!!
Why?

I only say it's more meta because it's the obvious choice for him to stay evil, now everyone expects a good chance of him becoming good so they're able to subvert that and make him evil

I mean at the end of the OG fight on Namek, that was his golden opportunity to change if he wanted to, and he didn't take it. Didn't even consider it. Can't see how he could change now. I think he's pure evil, he'll betray U7, try to use the superdragonballs to kill Zeno or some stupid bullshit, find out they don't work on him and get erased. (Or sent back to hell so he can be revived for the 60th time since he's such a popular char).

I don't think Toriyama (or the other writers) are good enough to make this convincing, Toriyama hasn't provided interesting plot points in 20 years. It would require either a. better writing than vegeta got, or b. a long time to make Freeza's transition feel natural, I don't think the writers can handle a. and I don't think super will run long enough for b.

Vegeta hasn't actually gone through a redemption arc either. He cried some crocodile tears about Frieza killing his dad to motivate Goku then got resurrected. He never actually redeemed himself for being an asshole who wanted to destroy Earth he kind of just laid low until everyone forgot about it

He did selflessly kill himself exploding in what he hoped would destroy Buu. I mean sure it's tempered a bit by willingly turning himself over to Babidi like a fucking retard but he did do something out of a desire to help others. .

He did redeem himself, that was the point of the Majin Vegeta arc. That was his redemption arc, the groundwork was laid early and built upon up to that point. We see him change bit by bit during every saga. They of course trashed all of this development in super for whatever reason though, it's a damn shame because Vegeta is one of the best written villain-to-hero stories in manga.

I want to see Freeza and Vegeta becoming best buddies.

>???

Do you think it's possible for Vegeta to forgive Freeza? I just can't see it happening.

"Yeah, sorry"

Zeno wants to do all the killing himself

Vegeta doesn't even care about reviving U7 saiyans.

>that was the point of the Majin Vegeta arc
What? To show that Vegeta was a retarded turncoat who couldn't be trusted? To show that up until that point that he was just an asshole who was hanging around the Z Fighters because he got BTFO and had nowhere else to go? Great arc.

Piccolo was done right. After training Gohan he's shown to have a serious change of heart and becomes a reliable ally from that point on. Vegeta keeps up his fucking retarded tsundere act all the way into Super and in no way actually shows he's ever thought of Earth as anything other than a convenient place to live because Planet Vegeta is gone.

>Vegeta! You can't just attack Frieza like that! You might think of him as a genocidal maniac but to me...To me, Frieza is the coolest guy"

He isn't killing anyone, there's no brutality in this series at all anymore. Remember Freeza's fucking absolute beat-down on Vegeta? Or 18 snapping Vegetas arm? How about the double-KO chest shot on Radditz/Goku? Can you honestly imagine any of those things happening in Super?

What about fighting in the Tournament of Power to defend the entire universe? Does that not count for anything? Sure Vegeta seems to only care about getting stronger and catching up to Goku, but he has his moments.

Not every villain should end up being redeemed. And frankly, after Piccolo and Vegeta, another redemption would come up as tired and cliche.
Adequate for Super, I guess.

Then what is the point of having Gohan around if Frieza is there

>Most potential
Frieza beats him in that

>battle hungry
frieza beats him in that

>character personality
frieza beats him in that

Having frieza around will give gohan and the rest less screen time

>after Piccolo and Vegeta
They weren't the first you know. It happens all the time in DB.

>What about fighting in the Tournament of Power to defend the entire universe
Is it ever shown that his primary motivation for doing it is to actually defend the universe or does he just want to fight strong guys? Because Vegetas primary motivation throughout the series has been to get stronger than Goku so he can beat him and become the unopposed ruler of the Earth.

Wrong, wrong WRONG.
>Vegeta keeps up his fucking retarded tsundere act all the way into Super and in no way actually shows he's ever thought of Earth as anything other than a convenient place to live because Planet Vegeta is gone.
That was the whole point of the arc you fucking ignoramus, have you actually read it/seen it? It's about Vegeta placing something over his pride for the first time (Trunks, Bulma, earth, even Goku as he says), his redemption is summed up in the interaction with Piccolo before the final explosion.
>"Tell me, when I go to the other world, will I meet that clown Kakarot?"
>"I'm not going to lie to you, Goku spent his life protecting others and was allowed to keep his body and travel to king kais planet, you've caused too much pain, when you die you won't receive the same reward."
>"So be it."

Not him but
>dub

Good, Gohan hasn't been interesting since Buu kicked his ass. The character needs to be retired. I'm sick of this "will he or won't he GOHAN BLANCO potential" subplot, it should've culminated in the Cell arc then been moved on from.

That's paraphrasing but as I recall it that conversation happened in manga too.

No thanks, you might as well kill the character entirely.

There's no way. They even kept hammering in that Frieza is nonredeemable. Frieza is just on their side out of necessity.

Even Frieza said that his beef with Goku wasn't over.

Do I hear Dsypo?

He's bad to the bone, and that's the way I like it.

>"So be it."
That doesn't sound like regret to me user. You know to redeem yourself you actually need to regret being an asshole in the past? You can't just perform one noble deed and have the slate wiped clean.

Four questions: Do you feel Vegeta's character has regressed in Super or is it better in Super?And how long before this thread gets shit up by generalfags and has to be abandoned? And doesn't Goku owe Frieza for even fighting in the tournament in the first place? How could Frieza work out as a part of the cast without interfering with EoZ?

Answer for all those four questions:
>who gives a shit?

You can't really call it regressed because his character has always been on top compared to every one else in DB, even in Super.That being said, Namek Saga Vegeta will always be GOAT

I'm sorry, but are you literally retarded? The point wasn't that that single act would wipe the slate clean, it was that he realized there'd be no reward(he was going to hell either way) and did it anyway, he put others before his pride and acted selflessly. That line was to show he changed. There's another part of that sub-plot at the end of Z during the Buu fight where Vegeta admits that Goku is the best and he's always been the best, and that they're friends and Vegeta will finally stop trying to be better than Goku. (from the manga translation I take this to mean good friends, almost like brothers, which makes perfect sense) but then they throw all of that development away in super and he's back to being a tsundere bitch who hates Goku and wanks himself to sleep thinking about surpassing him.

see the end of my post here I think his character has absolutely regressed.

>muh bulma
>takes the black for trunks in black saga
>changes bras diapers
>listens to gokus orders
>fuses with Goku again despite promising never doing it again

Vegeta is consistent

Do you think DB is at its best when Vegeta is on par with Goku or when Goku far surpasses him?

He's consistently a shit character with poor writing in Super, but then so is Goku, I can't decide who I hate more between them.

I think they're both good for different reasons, the Vegeta chases Goku and uses him as motivation plot is good and a classic, but it's so worn out now, and it's lame to re-use it since he had a big change of heart and gave up on it in end of Z. They could've put them close to par in super and explored a whole different side of their relationship, they're the last two pureblood saiyans left and this is never explored at all past 'muh rivalry' 'muh i fucking hate u kakarotto' I would've liked to see Goku keep his matured personality from Z rather than revert to kid goku mentally and for their bond to grow as allies/friends rather than just hardset rivals which is where I think Z would've gone if it ran another 100 episodes. (You see some of this in GT, Vegeta respects Goku more at least.)

Goku. He always messes something up in Super. He holds back against enemies for no reason at all.

Freeza just wouldn't be the same as anything but a scheming, egotistical, sadistic jackass
It's why people love him. It's not like Piccolo whose character shifted from 'revenge against Son Goku' to something different, or Vegeta who started out as an asshole and mass murderer but got gradually humanized. Freeza is a dick and despite getting several opportunities to not be a dick, he continues to be a dick, and people love him for it.

The most I could really see is him 'sacrificing himself' to help Goku win the ToP, since he doesn't want to be erased.

He has the best character development in Super. He has become more relaxed and is willing to put others over himself. Him wanting be superior to Goku will never stop because he is of a warrior race. This is why Goku and Vegeta get more screentime than anyone else and someone like Gohan doesnt

>best character development in Super
Not a high bar considering Super is a kids show with no depth.

>The most I could really see is him 'sacrificing himself' to help Goku win the ToP, since he doesn't want to be erased.
Freeza obviously knows and has mastered UI with his mental hell training, that's why he doesn't a single fuck that Goku knows/is learning it, because he's already mastered it.

>Anyone else hoping to see Freeza make the transition to good-guy
No. Not at all. He will never become a good guy.

No.

>You're better than me Kakarot you are the best
Fast foward to super
>I hate you you FUCKING CLOWN, NO I WONT FUSE WITH YOU, AHHHHHH!!! I WILL SURPASS YOU!!!

This is mostly due to toriyama's shit planning, remember the cell saga "I am no warrior and I will never fight again!"?

Fast forward to buu saga

"GOHAN LOOK HOW WEAK YOUVE GOTTEN LOL FCUK U"