Tfw pronoun spoils you on the gender of the mysterious character

>tfw pronoun spoils you on the gender of the mysterious character

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deixis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_variables_and_bound_variables
plato.stanford.edu/entries/anaphora/#ProbAnap
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Blame yourself for speaking a language that doesn't lend itself well to gender neutrality.

>spoils
What does it spoil? What difference does it make?

>mysterious

yeah that's a problem with primitive languages like english

>They were the one who carried you

If you're not some dipshit lingual purist 'they' can work as a gender neutral pronoun.

They is technically for plural subjects only. There's no gender neutral singular pronouns

Test

there is definitely a singular they.

Kill yourself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

>They is technically for plural subjects only

Don't be a dipshit lingual purist. While technically 'they' might be plural in practice it is informally recognized as both plural and singular.

>thinly veiled bait thread
Let's talk about Nanachi instead.

...

While a singular they is linguistically correct, it wouldn't be appropriate in this case because the narrator knows that character's gender.

KYS eslfag

I just wanna rub her against my face and feed her fresh timothy hay

What's the patrician language?
Even Japanese sucks because

>boku

>assuming gender from pronouns

Whatever one lets me call you a faggot
I think that's all of them really

The problem with using they in this case is that it would show that you are trying to hide a character's gender, effectively spoiling that they are a woman anyway.

I got caught up with the manga way too fast and now I feel empty. Guess I should go read something else or watch the anime, but I just want to see what happens next. Nothing else seems nearly as good to me.

Watch the anime, try not to binge it because you'll feel even emptier. Then listen through the OST, maybe look up a few pieces of merch and dwell on it a bit. You need to ween yourself off slowly, then come back again in a year or so and watch it again if you enjoyed it that much.

Those are some good ideas, I'll try them if it starts feeling really bad. Thank you very much.

>mysterious
Srajo?

Gender is a grammatical category, duh.

Ok, is Nanachi a boy or a girl? Not that it matters, I'd fuck it anyway.

Not specified by the author. Whatever you want user.

>There's no gender neutral singular pronouns
It.

So I've caught up with the manga. Two things I don't like so far:

Exposition. There's so goddamn much of it it feels like I'm reading a shounen manga sometimes. It's lightened up significantly as the story has progressed, but it was such a slog to get through up until they are finally depart for the Abyss. It's still annoying sometimes up to their exploration of the fifth layer, but in all fairness I'll say world building is very important in a fantasy adventure story, and the author clearly wanted to dive right into the plot and get the details out of the way. But perhaps it'd have been better set some those details aside until they actually began exploring the Abyss.

Second, I'm not feeling the rapid fire pacing with all the dramatic moments that have occurred so far. The only characters to really pull my heartstrings so far are Nanachi, and Riko to a less extent. This became especially apparent during the fifth layer trek. Prushka's hasty introduction and death in a handful of chapters, alongside the 20 page tragic backstory inserted after we see her cartridge, happened too quickly to move me much. She was cute, though. Bondrewd's abilities and design are interesting, but I would have liked to maybe see more development of how his psyche has been warped over years through experimentation and merging of consciousnesses. Maybe a glimpse of the original Bondrewd before seeing how the experiments began changing him. Right now he just comes off to me as a very typical "mad scientist" type character who speaks formally and is totally kind but really he's amoral and sees it all as a means to an end for his research. Ozen was more interesting because of how eccentric she is compared to Bondrewd. Still, I've enjoyed the party's encounters with Abyssal creatures.

I could be getting ahead of myself. This manga has been ongoing for 5 years and clearly needed to jump-start itself for the kind of story it wants to be. I still like it.

"He" is technically gender neutral.

SJW ruined pronouns.

No, nothing's been ruined. You're fucking retarded.

That person is the one who carried you to the surface along with Lyza.
Y/N?

There might be cases where it might sounds wrong though.

...

>1st point: didn't like it because it was slower and had more exposition
>2nd point: didn't like it because it was too fast and had less exposition.
Keep reading shounens. This is not the right manga for you.

>american education

Was there really that much exposition? I never felt like it was getting in the way. Pacing in the fifth layer really did minimize the impact of a lot of it. There really should have been a glimpse into bondrewd's backstory and his way of thinking. At least showing some interaction between him and the other white whistles would have been interesting, but that can still happen later on I guess. Prushka's cartridging would have been so much more heart wrenching if her being turned into one wasn't shown. I get that showing exactly what happens to someone when they're made into a cartridge is what makes it so impactful, but it could have just been shown in a flashback with some random kid. On the subject of characterization; I'm worried about what Faputa is gonna be like. Her design is too good to just be a yandere addition to Reg's collection.

>the replies to this post
didnt know there were so many trannies on Sup Forums

I also felt like we weren't allowed to get strongly attached to Prushka. It still hurt though.
Kind of hard to like this manga if you don't enjoy the exposition/worldbuilding. I almost wish there was more of it at the cost of slower pacing but then everyone would complain that arcs are dragged out and we'd all go insane from the wait between chapters.

N. Why would he say "that person" when he knows exactly who it is?

>Was there really that much exposition? I never felt like it was getting in the way.

I'm probably being too harsh about it. It mainly came from the encyclopedia word vomit and some characters spending a lot of time explaining detailed facets of the Abyss in the beginning of the story. I would rather have liked to listen to Riko's encyclopedic knowledge of the Abyss while we explored it, but then we might have spent a lot more time in the upper layers than the author desired. It's the only other gripe I have and as of now it's not really an issue.

>but that can still happen later on I guess.

Yeah, I'm leaving plenty of room for that. I'm sure we'll see Bondrewd again, hopefully with more character development.

That's a good perspective from your spoiler text. I might have felt more too if maybe the approach to her had been more subtle. I was more taken in by her as a character than Bondrewd, anyhow, and it was still sad.

>Her design is too good to just be a yandere addition to Reg's collection.

Indeed. I remain hopeful about the upcoming chapters, though. I think the author's demonstrated enough willingness to pull out the rug from under his readers' feet. We'll just have to see if it's executed well.

Yeah, I understand. I probably sounded more whiny about it than I intended, and I'll give the author the benefit of the doubt in trying to get us through to the really dark and exciting parts of the world. I can't imagine still being in the third or fourth layer after 5-6 years of following the manga.

Singular they is only grammatical if it is used as an anaphor, which is largely equivalent to a bound variable in formal semantics. It could never be a deictic term or demonstrative.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deixis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_variables_and_bound_variables
plato.stanford.edu/entries/anaphora/#ProbAnap

Because of ambiguity, right?

Switching "they" in for "he" or "she" is not correct English and sounds stupid. You need to restructure the sentence or paragraph to use "they".

In this case, just using their name works.

>Didn't know there were so many English speakers on Sup Forums.

I guess I just get immersed too easily and end up not noticing exposition. Maybe I read too fast as well. I did get through it all in two days with breaks every few chapters. I'm sure Bondrewd will show up again in some capacity since the story has been shifting back to Orth and the Seeker Camp at times. I'm still suprised how little I cared for Bondrewd after actually reading it, there really was way to much hype around him here. His abilities are cool and he's interesting, but Reg's upgrade and the strategies Riko Squad were using stole the show. I'm sure Faputa will be an interesting character. Tsukushi doesn't seem interested in typical character archetypes.

Isn't it better to use "it"? The pronoun is literally gender neutral and singular.

See , dipshit.

Not appropriate when referring to a person. If the subject wasn't human (see: gembutts) "it" would be fine.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
Not the one you are replying to but this wikipedia page literally told us why we shouldn't use "they".

I am fine with "he" because that is how we always use for unidentifiable strangers. I don't see why "it" is no appropriate though. "It's a boy!" seems to be a fine sentence.

I'll say that I advocate "organic" world building, i.e. world building done as part of the story, of things happening in the world and characters exploring and getting shit done. Info dumps feel lazy in comparison, but I'll concede that it was necessary to get us to the current point in the story, the really exciting part of the Abyss. I imagine he's also setting it up for multiple character perspectives to start being used regularly as you mentioned, so maybe we'll get to see more of the upper layers as time goes on. It's also more fitting for the main characters' motivations to rush down to the bottom as fast as possible, so I don't have a problem with that.

I'm excited to see how these characters grow from here onward, should be an interesting set of challenges.

>he just comes off to me as a very typical "mad scientist" type character who speaks formally and is totally kind but really he's amoral and sees it all as a means to an end for his research.
I respectfully disagree, for the amount of screentime he got he has heaps of characterization and a decent amount of development as well, you just have to read between the lines and keep the bigger picture in mind. First and foremost, unlike the archetypical mad scientist kind of character, Bondrewd does not do science for the sake of science. He is an explorer, a conqueror and a colonizer. Bondarchuk has a clearly defined goal: to rend the curse of the Abyss, and the concept of Dawn which is an overarching theme of his, is centric to his character, which as evident by the final chapter of the arc, is not some vague concept or just a chuuni thing he imagined, its plain and simple the nickname he has given to the apocalyptic event that happens every 2000 years and wipes out most life, and overcoming this (which according to him can be done by turning oneself into a narehate) is an important part of his motivation. And besides, he is still a worker employed by the goverment and it was mentioned many times that he does contribute a great deal to both city life on the surface and the delver organization. Not a very typical madman thing to do.

Another thing that I feel can be looked deeper into is not only his motivation, but also personal conviction that force him to pursue his aspirations, and this is where effects of Zoaholic take place. As a result of its usage, his persona was reduced to the most basic elements, out of which the most important was his conviction to never give up and stop working towards your dreams, no matter how hard it gets. Which, in turn, when coupled with the effects of body-switching, forced him into comitting more brutal and visceral atrocities. He does not derive pleasure from the cruel acts he commits, he does not do it for the kicks, he does it because he believes it bo be for the better. Which, quite frankly, it is, in a more grand scheme of things.
And this leads me to his personal attitude towards his actions. After the flashback, there is quite an important scene in my opinion which shows us that, in spite of his cold exterior, Baskin Robbins does, in fact, experience a great deal of pain and emotional turmoil, which is also partially reflected in his attitude towards the victims of his research, who he regards as invaluable companions and reaps the fruits of the experimentation with thoughts of reverence and indeed gratitude towards his victims.
Lastly, his methodology can seem overly gruesome to us, but when we compare it to the real life equivalents of roughly the same timeframe (around 17-19th century), we can see that human experimentation was nothing particularly out of the ordinary and contributed a great deal towards the understanding of human biology and related subjects. I like this example personally: Edward Jenner conceived the worlds 1st vaccine as a result of subjecting 8 year old kids to pox.
In the end, I think Tsukushi managed to make a great antagonist that is both revolting and sympathetic, and both the doting father and gruesome experimentator aspects of his persona contribute towards each other.

I hate this aspect of English and Japanese.