Why would the human instrumentality project be a bad thing?

Why would the human instrumentality project be a bad thing?

Imagine trying to jerk off, but your dick is soup.

>genocide mankind and turn them into egregore tang

imagine not ever having to jerk off again because you are already one with everybody else.

Because I don't see how that is different from death.

Can you trust anything with german on it?

I don’t like orange flavor

I don't really want to join any sort of hivemind, desu.

If i'm forced to then fine i'll get used to, but it's not something i'll choose.

Instrumentality from Eva's perspective was a "bad" thing because SEELE had given up on humanity and decided to force humanity to die and evolve into a single being without giving everyone else a chance to choose for themselves.

Taking away someone else's right to choose is bad, even if you know that person is going to constantly make bad decisions.

Because it's like trying to cure someone of depression by putting them in to a medically-induced coma. Sure, you can argue that you've technically solved the issue, but you've only really accomplished it by creating a bigger issue.

>being one with every other dude in the world
That's gay as fuck.

gender no longer exists if there is only one (1) mankind organism

Everyone will know everything about everyone. Thats also why asuka said shinji was disgusting efter shinji choked her at the end... Beacause now she knew about shinjis little secret at the hospital.

Because it's soul communism.
I spend a long time developing and cultivating my inner self, and I don't particularly feel like being forced to share with people who have only put in a fraction of the effort.

So you're saying it'll just be dues in there?

That's really fucking gay, dude.

nice non sequitur

What is wrong with you western retards always seeing things in terms of bad and good without any nuance? You westerners disgust me
Why do you see shinji rejecting instrumentality as someone telling you that instrumentality is bad, rather than trying to think what it means to reject being in a conglomerate soup for a human. You pathetic westerners are always quick to label things as good and bad and try to shove your retarded values onto others

All the suffering the world, every pain you ever felt is the direct result of individual consciousness - the biggest mistake evolution/God (pick your preferred scapegoat) ever made. getting rid of individual consciousness would end suffering at once. you'd have to be a total narcissist douchelord to be against that.

Few different reasons

1. Humanity is basically forced in to it by a cabal of old rich dudes who're so butt-blasted with how shit things are going that they think they have the right to basically doom mankind in to extinction and force everyone to convert to soul communism whether they want to or not. Like it or not, people have the right to choose whether or not they'll be happy, even if they keep making the wrong decisions and wind up hurting themselves and others.

2. Shinji notes that it's a fundamentally imperfect solution regardless. The complete loss of individuality ensures that basic human relationships cannot be maintained either, and as a result though you'll never experience pain and suffering, you'll also never experience true happiness either.

It's also why Shinji, while rejecting Instrumentality as a whole, doesn't take SEELE's route and force humanity to come back with him. The option is there for anyone to take it, but they have to want to come back.

>you'd have to be a total narcissist douchelord to be against that.
Then I'm a total narcissistic douchelord and the rest of mankind can go fuck itself.
Me > you

It's actually never stated why the old cunts think that tangifying the entire humanity will be a good thing, they just do and the audience is led to believe that they have their own reasons. It's referred to as "evolution" but all it does is turn people into an orange soup hivemind.

Unless the manga touches on this, I have no idea why they thought that dooming humanity to forever remain on Earth was a good thing.

Not sure if you were aware already, but the Seele logo now reminds you of goatse.
Have a nice day.

the funny thing is that once you die you'll go back into the pre-conscious primordial soup regardless. I bet that terrifies you. For me it is a comfort.

>I bet that terrifies you.
Not at all. I'd rather die than be tang, as well.

Guessing puberty's not being kind to you, huh?

It is not. It reminds me of Asimov's the last question when man fused with the Cosmic Computer

I think you missed the point of the entire discussion but you really wanted to get all of that out there. Do you feel better now, user?

Ending all suffering will end all joy and happiness too.

I am not even sure if that user is trolling, but criticizing a lack of nuance and making generalizations about "you westerners" at the same time makes me think that is probably a pasta.

Well said.

begause ids liderally a symbolism
for gommunism

Actually The End of Evangelion has SEELE flat out states why.

>getting rid of individual consciousness would end suffering at once
I don't know why you would think that.
Just wait until some super-powerful alien species stumbles on Tang Earth and discovers it's just the tastiest beverage ever.

Meaning? I watched it, and I get the point that ending individuality ends pain and makes everyone understand one another, but tang is just water where everyone can endlessly jerk off. It removes any sort of progress.

Oh, and I suppose I should add this tidbit as well. SEELE wasn't dooming humanity to stay on Earth forever.

Violates the NAP

>It removes any sort of progress
It is the latest progress. There's not much progress after because we become god.

>a pool of conscious orange juice
>god

Either I'm retarded or just forgot, but there's nothing stated about what humanity can or can do while collectively tangified. For all we're told it's just water with a hivemind in it.

Then again, if Shinji and Asuka can come back and regain their bodies, not to mention all of the metaphysical shit happening leading up to the EoE, maybe your arguments that tang is a god-like being aren't that farfetched, so I don't fucking know.

> tfw the original ending was going to be Shinji all alone on the beach holding Misato's missing arm

How dark. The original drafts sounded interesting.

>It removes every source of progress

I don't think SEELE really cared at this point, which makes them hypocritites, but there was nothing good about that lot anyway so it's not surprising.

>SEELE felt that humanity had reached an evolutionary wall
>suffering abounds
>the same mistakes are being repeated
>humanity sucks overall
>might as well all find some sort of peace in becoming one, even if we have to force it on everyone

Fair point here.

It would also be thematically appropriate if the big bads of the series were basically just autistic manchildren who couldn't get over how fucked things were, seeing as the other big bad was an autistic manchild who couldn't get over his wife dying to the point where he was too autistic to love his son.

Good answer.

>SEELE felt that humanity had reached an evolutionary wall
I think they saw how desperate angels were to reach Adam or Lilith or whatever else they had to do in order to evolve and wanted that for humanity instead, so it must've been seen as an objectively good thing in the end. I don't fucking know, I feel like most of this is fluff they had to do to get to the themes of the show, it's not meant to be well fleshed out.

What's the point in being a sea of tang? How does humanity defend itself against future extinction events? It doesn't sound like much of an upgrade.

It wouldn't. Shinji was a coward who ran away because he was too scared to truly know other people instead preferring a lonely delusion layered over the real world to the ultimate realization of humanity. SEELE did nothing wrong.

SEELE's Instrumentality would have put them into EVA bodies, practically becoming gods.

Thread should've ended here, that's a nice and concise answer.

Most people don't play instruments.

Everyone keeps mentioning being tang-d being the bad bit, but was that actually the Illuminati's or even Gendo's intention, or was it just because shinji buggered it up?

He's right about Evafags and their habit of framing the series as something created to convey a message.

Maybe, I guess.

> framing the series as something created to convey a message.
Well, it was innit?

The Tang is just the body breaking down back into constituent goo after each person's AT field merged with the others, losing their individuality.

Yeah i am really aware of my hypocrisy(some sjw puritanistic westerners frustrated me to no end a while ago) but i don't think i missed the point of discussion. I just don't like making value judgments right off the bat while discussing things. It's specifically due to thinking in the realms of good or bad that made op to frame the start of discussion like that. Who even said that instrumentality is bad to OP? Why did he assume that the work is trying to shove its own moral values onto him?

It's all good, then, as your point itself was fair enough.

Right, but that was that supposed to be the end result? I am probably wrong since I watched this a decade or so ago, but I thought shinji caused the whole thing to stop in the middle, I assumed that there was supposed to be something more after the whole tang'd part.

Asuka and Shinji denied the human instrumentality project; she said he was disgusting because of what he had become, and that's the beauty of actually accepting life and not taking the easy way out—suicide—a spade is called a spade.

>shinji caused the whole thing to stop in the middle
No. He just "quit" the instrumentality world and he decided to live in the real world.

There was. The Tang was just the physical body falling apart after their souls left, Instrumentality is every person's soul remerging and forming Lilith.

Hideaki Anno was naive. He thought he could use Evangelion to reveal some cosmic truth about humanity, but instead he discovered reality; a cartoon can't be more than a cartoon, so in the end he just overworked himself and made more otaku faggots.

so drugs should be legal

Yeah, he did, which is why the giant Rei falls apart. The souls were meant to gather there and there'd be no choice involved for anyone besides Shinji, but at the end of Eva, you're just left with an LCL sea with the souls there if they don't choose to reform.

Because I'm me and I'm not you, if I was you then I wont be me

>2. Shinji notes that it's a fundamentally imperfect solution regardless. The complete loss of individuality ensures that basic human relationships cannot be maintained either, and as a result though you'll never experience pain and suffering, you'll also never experience true happiness either.
Why do people cling to these ideas of individuality? By merging consciousness you create a superior being that still retains the thoughts and memories of each individual merged thus able to have a deeper understanding of our reality. Individuality is a thing that is only created from the limitation of having a single perspective.

So he should have made a live action film instead?

If you're in Shinji's position, what choice would you make?

You’re the un-me. I’m the real me, you wannabe-me.

This is the definitive answer.

I don't think I'd call instrumentality a "bad thing" -- just an ideal that's incompatible with a more beautiful ideal.

Isn't humanity forced to unite so that we can become lilith again , kill adam and do other god things?

The NAP is a spook.

...

DAMMIT

Based shinji.

It's funny how your first point relates to current affairs. Instead of turning mankind into primordial tang, the powers that be want us to become one race (of course they don't want this for their kind though, lol). Funny thing, forcing diversity everywhere eventually will lead us to lose any trace of real diversity.

Funny, isn't it?

Polite sage.

He was naive to think that it would work, but I can't blame him for trying. It's not his fault that they all missed the point, since it's not like it's really that subtle.

Do people unironically believe that eva is anti-otaku propaganda show? Is anno that dumb enough to think that otaku are trying to "escape from reality" through their media?
Saito tamaki puts it in best way “I fully affirm theotaku's way of living. I would never try to lecture them about ‘getting back to reality.’ They know reality better than anyone.” i fully agree with him that otaku "challenge us to rethink our understanding of the ontological status of fiction in the visual register.” if it's actually true that anno really hates otaku culture then he should stop projecting his nonsense onto others. Just because he used to escape reality due to his depression doesn't mean otaku are doing the same. But i don't think anno is that crazy enough to make such insane generalization of subculture he is familiar with. It seemed to like he's just reaching out to those who had withdrawn themselves from society that no longer seemed to show them any hope for having a better future.

Good post, user.

I'm pretty sure I wrote a paper on 2 for a film class back in college. I should post it if I can find it before the thread dies.

Instrumentality is actually one of the scariest possible fates i can imagine for humanity, i'm not even a turbo autist and i fear intimacy waaaay too much, the mere thought of everyone having free access to anything inside your head is unfathomable.

i'd read it

Imagine having your moms memories of fucking your dad.

Best post in this thread.

>getting rid of individual consciousness would end suffering at once.
But getting rid of individual consciousness would end happiness too.
It's just a different kind of death.
Literally blowing up the Earth killing everyone would be the same exact thing.

>implying you can’t suffer as hivemind goo
Group 334 won’t stop bulling my collective’s ideals
Or maybe it’s a perfect hivemind, in which all things are essentially static because the hivemind cannot think outside of itself, which is like being a stone but more orange.

it's not. what do you think the Internet is?