How do we stop king of jobbers?

How do we stop king of jobbers?

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Kill him

Shirou had the high ground. Gilgamesh never had a chance.

Fate//Zero: Shown to have a hard counter to Reality Marbles. Use's it to defeat Rider, goes on to win the Grail.

Fate//Stay Night: Has experience from previous Grail War. Shirou uses the same tactic that was shown not to work against him. Wins anyway.

I guess you just have to be the main character and your shitty tactics will overcome plot consistency.

Be someone he looks down on and you automatically win.

Even then, isn't the main point supposed to be that Shirou can manipulate millions of blades to counter Gilgamesh's millions of blades? Rider has an entire army of what I assume to be average soldiers who probably can't do anything in the face of a literal kinetic bombardment.

>I assume to be average soldiers
Every single soldier had servant stats.

Rider is a warrior/king that conquered almost a whole lot of Asia.
Shirou is a highschool kid protected by a girl.
You actually think someone arrogant like Gil would prepare for the latter?

Ea is anti world, he could have used it to destroy the reality marble.

Rider's army is literal small fries that don't even have access to their original weapons or NPs. His strategy was to tank GoB himself and have his minions overwhelm Gil with sheer numbers.

By literal small fries I mean their stats are forced to be lower than they would be if they were summoned on their own as actual Servants.

don't be a retard, gilgameme being unwilling to pull out his infinity+1 dildo against a literal autistic ginger is perfectly in character.
he treats everyone who's not seiba and iskander like shit, him pulling out ea would mean that some random mongrel is actually a threat.
he went in expecting a quick stomp and by the time he realized it ain't gonna happen, he was on the ropes.

Why are we still arguing about this ?
Putting aside the other works, Gilg losing in FS/N was an asspull and there's nothing to discuss about it.
Reality Marble or not Shirou lacked the strength, the stamina and the skill to melee Gilgamesh let alone reach him under a barrage of weapons.
And while compared to other Servants his melee is lacking, compared to Shirou's human body and babby's level of swordsmanship he's still far far above him, so don't give me any shit about that user/holder crap.
And that doesn't even count how Shirou was over exerting himself all that time destroying his own body while trying to keep UBW up.

>You will never see Achilles use his reality marble to take away Gilgamesh's power and beat the shit out of him with his fists.

>under a barrage of weapons.
Irrelevant because UBW is fast enough to knock out GoB ammo before they have a chance to be fired.

>Shirou's human body and babby's level of swordsmanship
Shirou's tracing reproduces the history of the weapon, that includes the physical strength and skills of the original owner.

Gilgamesh could just use Ea and kill him.
But since
>muh pride no way I'm going to waste Ea on some puny mortal
he lost

>Shirou's tracing reproduces the history of the weapon, that includes the physical strength and skills of the original owner.
What ? Where did this comes from ?

In HF he reproduces Herc's weapon, which normally his body shouldn't be able to handle the weight of. But not only is he able to swing it around, he even uses a nerfed version of Herc's Nine Lives NP.

I thought that was because he had Archer's arm though.

The arm is just a shortcut much like the power flowing from Archer into him in UBW.

He was able to block Herc once in Fate when he had Caliburn in hand. And in UBW against Kuzuki , while I don't remember the exact wording, it was along the lines of "the weapons were moving on their own."

That's weird I recall the main difference between UBW and GoB was that UBW created replicas and GoB just summoned the real thing.
With Shirou main advantage being that he even with just a superficial understanding of the weapon he could still manifest part of their powers while Gilgamesh could only throw them at your face, aka Shirou can trace Avalon and gain part of its healing powers and Gilgamesh can bring the real thing out of his ass but only throw it at your face.
Maybe that's what you were talking about ?

>Shirou's tracing reproduces the history of the weapon, that includes the physical strength and skills of the original owner.
Those are heavily nerfed compared to original though. Shiki and Bazett can beat Shirou ass so it's weird for Gil to be pushed back by Shirou.

I am pretty sure that gilgamesh did try to use ea in the new ubw anime, but shiro cut of his hand first

Yup, but they showed him hesitating to use it, which is a nice touch. I don't really see the issue with the classic pride complex, it was down to the wire in the UBW anime when he tried to grab Ea as his little second of hesitation got himself killed.

Turn him into a cute little _boy

>Gilgamesh reserves Ea for the worthy
>Respects Rider as an honorable man and a King who rules as a King should
>Regards Shirou as a fucking mongrel uppity magus and a counterfeit besides
>Knew exactly what Rider was going to do and used Enuma Elish as an appropriate response to his challenge, meeting the all-out offensive of a worthy man with the unstoppable might of Ea
>Some mongrel pulled a fucking Reality Marble out of his ass, neutralized the Gate of Babylon and immediately overwhelmed him as a superior duelist, forcing him to summon Ea out of desperation when it was already too late
"inconsistency"

Stop being a pathetic secondary, anime-onlyfag.

Alexander has something close to a reality marble but still isn't a genuine one.

Also, Gil did not win the Grail, you stupid fuck.

None of them had NPs and were ranked E, you dumbfuck.

Unlike Alexander, Shirou isn't a dumbfuck who just stands there and lets Gil charge up Ea.

Also, Alexander choose to be three football fields away from Gil.

Meanwhile, Shirou's swords already have surrounded Gil at close range.

Stop samefagging, you pathetic secondary.

UBW allows Shirou to literally be a Master using NPs.

A animeonlyfag like yourself should get the fuck out of this thread.

>Reality Marble or not Shirou lacked the strength, the stamina and the skill to melee Gilgamesh let alone reach him under a barrage of weapons.
>Gilfags are now unironically arguing Gilgamesh is even a half-decent duelist, let alone better than the man with the skill to kill Archer and Saber one-on-one
Gilgamesh is a fucking shit fighter, without Gate of Babylon all he can do against Saber is put his arms up so she doesn't crush his skull. It took him twelve fucking hours to kill Lancer because he just spammed GoB at him the whole time.

Read the fucking VN
>but Archer's Arm
It's a shortcut. Everything he does with Archer's Arm is within "the scope of his power"; they are one and the same person with the same abilities. Reinforcement was always a core component of his projection skills.
The same process occurs during the UBW route as he repeatedly encounters Archer. If he couldn't reproduce a Servant's strength and decades of technique/experience he would have never stood a chance against Archer both times he fought him in UBW, nevermind dueling Saber in Heaven's Feel.

That doesn't really explain why Shirou didn't turn Kuzuki into mince meat like how Redman did it when he traced K&B

Archer killed Kuzuki after Caster died and her enchantments were no longer strengthening/protecting him.

Kuzuki had reinforcement from caster when he attacked shirou. He didn't have it when he attacked Archer

He was still Shirou's teacher for at least a year while Archer doesn't give a fuck.

You're telling me that Kuzuki suddenly gained D strength when Medea buffed him?

Yeah, Medea can buff normal person to full E rank and Kuzuki was stronger than normal person

Yes? Regular dudes can't choke Servants

put some mary sue protag and also a "muh pride" excuse to not fight all out because you made the vilain too strong, that should be enough

No matter how hard Gil jobs to anyone. It will never compare to how Karna was shat on in Apocrypha.

Why didn't Gilgamesh just put on his armour against Shirou?
>inb4 muh arrogance
There's a difference between arrogance and retardation and not putting on the armour clearly falls in the latter

Armoring up to fight Shirou would be implicitly acknowledging Shirou is a threat to him.

Why the fuck would he don his armor against a japanese ginger teen when he managed to defeat motherfucking Hercules without taking his hands out of his pockets.

It's literally arrogance
>Gilgamesh [Servant]
>The Archer of the previous Grail War. Mankind's oldest king of heroes, who defeated Saber. For more details, refer to his status screen in the game. As no proper Heroic Spirit can match this man, he could be called the "Servant Killer". Without a doubt, he is the strongest existence amongst the Servants.
>Though he lost due to obsession against Saber…
>Though he lost due to pride against Shirou…
>Though he lost due to carelessness against XXXXX…
>…the fact of the matter is that if he actually gets serious, he is a Servant that cannot be rivaled. Perhaps because he has been living in human society for the past ten years, he seems to be hip on the latest fashions. He owns various casual clothes, but his favorite is the biker outfit he wore in the Rin route. Well, he liked it enough to overlook Shirou's group and leave instead of letting it get dirty, at any rate. I can't believe the protagonist's life was worth less to Gil than his coat…! It might seem strange how Gil could live in human society for ten years with a personality like his and not cause a fuss, but Gil must have realized it would have been a problem, too, because apparently he drank a certain Noble Phantasm to change his appearance and personality.

F/A made Karna look like a joke.

I don't even know why would Gil even want Karna's spear after watching F/A.

Where will we get a dynamic like Kuzuki and Medea again? A master being the front fighter.

Don't Bazett and Avenger kind of do that in Hollow Ataraxia?

Instead of shitting radom knifes from his ass gil should have summon something else or actually use NP's abilities
youtube.com/watch?v=Zou5_wCCngQ

What's wrong with squashing the ginger with huge ass spaceship or big barrel of wine?

That would require more effort than some mongrel is worth.
Gilgamesh is only allowed to use his tools cleverly when his ass is too small for his head to fit into.

swords look cool

Eh, considering a lot of anime-only fags don't even know Kuzuki is buffed by caster, I'd say the anime director did a poor job conveying it in the whole "show don't tell"

Use Ko-Gil or CasGil for that. Archer Gil, while being overwhelmingly more powerful than the others, is far more arrogant than the two combined.

Avenger wasn't even buffing Bazzett, she's a straight-up fucking monstrously powerful and autistic irish fistmage who carries around a Punishment Sphere which rematerializes DIRECTLY up your ass the moment your NP activates. The only buff Avenger was giving her was the LOOP

She's pretty great, isn't she?

>LOOP
That's the most powerfull weapon if you're persistent enough

Ment for

Iirc the only servants Bazett and Avenger would lose to in the 5th war is
>Herc and Illya
>Kuzuki and Medea
>unironically not serious Gil

Redman could kill her with Caladbolg II or Hrunting, she also has no answer to UBW since it's not a direct ultimate attack
As long as Seiba doesn't shoot beam she can kill her
No idea if she can counter triple slash from Kojiro
Gae Bolg can still kill her even if she kills Cu first

They have to take advantage of the time loop to actually make it work though. Avenger is an awful Servant and Fragarach is useless if you can't put up enough of a fight to make your opponent use their NP.

You've got a point on the redman thing. He loses in CQC though.
Seibah lost because of Manjew so that's another one. See HA.
Kojiro and Hassan are a wildcard.

Because he's Gilgamesh, King of Heroes, the strongest servant and the one to hold ownership over all. Why the fuck would some random high schooler who can't do anything but make a bunch of bootleg swords be any type of threat.
This is the logic that he uses daily and it's been stated numerous times that if he were to actually take most fights seriously he wouldn't be as big of a jobber as he is

I thought it was said that even strong humans didnt stand a frickin chance against weak servants.
So how is gingerkid able to match the speed and strength of Gil?

Fragarach and Gay Bulge can't do shit to someone who doesn't need his heart to survive, right?

A lot of things like that that the characters take for granted as "facts" are actually total bullshit. This is why one of the first fights in the VN involves an "unavoidable attack" that rewrites causality being avoided.

>Red eyes of divinity.
>Lost his arm against a shitty mc with out Divinity.

Fatefag will try to defend this.

I thought that was because of seiba having high luck stats vs Cu's super low luck stat, or am i mistaken? Even tho its retarded to call it unavoidable, indeed.

The point is that, for every "rule" like "Gae Bolg cannot be avoided" and "humans can't beat servants" there's an exception like "unless they have an absurd luck stat" for the former and "unless they're being boosted by a servant" or "unless they're able to reproduce servant stats with tracing" or "unless they're Kotomine fucking Kirei" for the latter.

>So how is gingerkid able to match the speed and strength of Gil?
He doesn't, technically.

It's more that he can make the swords he creates move as though they were wielded by their original owners. It fucks up his body to do it, the VN describes how his muscles, bones, tendons and shit are all tearing apart to do it, but it's enough.

Shirou's marble is hax and gives him the experience of wielding the NPs as he forges them, although it tears his body up. Just like Shiki's eyes are killing him because humans aren't supposed to perceive the lines of death. Shiki gets a free pass on using her eyes because she had a tertiary personality which was a mary sue connected to the akashic root.

Yes, Gae Bolg is said to be useless against a rock

Anything worthwhile in the Fate series other than Zero and Stay Night?

Ticks me the wrong way that he still could beat a servant, but i guess it makes sense(?)

>tfw i loved Kotomine's fight scenes in fate zero and he's one of my favorite characters

Debatably Strange Fake and Hollow Ataraxia, but other than that, not really. Read Tsukihime instead.

He lost because he did not want to use EA on a filthy mongrel, Iskandar in the other hand, for him, it was a worthy opponent.

He was to late and even then he hesitated to pick EA.

It's a death curse, it doesn't give a shit about anatomy.

I like Deen's anime.

The king of heroes using his golden armor against a japanese high schooler mongrel. And you say it cannot be arrogance.

GoB makes a call to the spirit origin to claim what is rightfully his. UBW projects onto reality the physical manifestation of the concept of an EX+ rank blacksmith producing any weapon he encounters with -1 rank unless he possesses true knowledge of said weapon such as avalon which has literally been a part of both his soul and projected magic circuit since the fires of the last war, aka his entire life in memory. Inside his reality marble, UBW can match GoBs speed, and one rank isn't enough to win when you aren't unleashing NPs, you're just throwing them like hunks of metal. If Gil could use any NP at -1 rank he'd destroy UBW, but his archer NP is EA, which he doesn't use out of arrogance.

The only hard and fast "rule" is that "magic requires an equal exchange". Sorceries like kaleidoblade and other ROOT magic draw power from the throne directly and do not need said exchange. Everything else is literally based 0 on history and entirely on folklore and legend. If people believe it, its true. If lots of people believe it, its strong. If everyone believes it, its Gil.

>muh arrogance!

everytime

This.

thats not bazett

>1) UBW could fire more NPs per second compared to Gilgamesh, because all the swords are already 'ready'. And thus Gilgamesh have to defend against stray NPs too.
>2) Shirou can instantly replace the weapons in his hand while Gilgamesh have to manually pull them out.
>3) Shirou could download the techniques, but his body can't keep up (even in HF), but Gilgamesh was only a owner, and have not mastered any of his Noble Phantasm like the other heroes did.
>Even with all those advantages, Shirou had to be relentless and strike while the iron was hot, because he knew if Gilgamesh regains composure he would be screwed, this was stated by Shirou himself.

That wasn't what happened. Gilga never planned to use EA from the beginning since Shirou is a literal plebeian and not worth of it.

This.

Can Shirou even use UBW without Rin providing him massive amounts of mana? Even using up her supply he runs out pretty quickly.

He didn't even use his armor against Herakles, by far the most powerful servant, despite using it against Caster, Lancer, and Saber in Fate route and even Sakura of all people in HF. At this point the only plausible reason I can think of him not wearing it is Shinji touched it and he decided to discard it.

Well, Gil vs Heracles is basically like a Guile vs Zangief match up

He wasn't taking Heracles seriously because he was a mad dog.

But doesnt Gil have to agree to fight in the reality marble for it to take effect?

And if not, and Achilles used it vs Herc, who would win?

Herc would shoot him in the heel 50 times and that nigga would die.

Make him the underdog. Nasu follows the exact same pattern all the time of hyping someone up to unbeatable levels so they can miraculously lose to some teenage boy. Every single major legendary figure is a jobber in Fate.

Maybe it's somewhat unrelated, but I always wonder how the legendary heroes (provided they even existed in the first place) would feel seeing themselves depicted as cute girls, traps and shotas.

By making him be serious and go all out against any foes that stands in his way.

ubw had some good fight i will give you that

please stop samefagging

Not all that good probably

Gilgamesh didnt job though, Archer had to finish the job