So this was a "good end", right? All of humanity (except for Gendo and the poor Angels I guess)...

So this was a "good end", right? All of humanity (except for Gendo and the poor Angels I guess), even those who died long ago, became one and suffering was erased.

Probably, I saw it as a good end but for Shinji and Asuka and the show's point of view it was bad.

I think Shinji expected more people to come back.
He fucked up.

A twist on the classic happy ending

This. He failed to realize that almost everyone else experiences suffering and are desperate for an alternative.

At least he can play Adam and Eve with Asuka.

They'd be terrible for each other. I don't think anyone should get together in eva

Suffering gives meaning and purpose to life.

To want an end to suffering is to want an end to living.

Well they don't really have a choice, as they are the last people on earth. Also, I think it all leads up to eventually this, Anno says the christian simbolism is only there because it looks cool, but he is a troll, so don't take him seriously. They will eventually have to repopulate earth.

Who says that nobody else wanted to return from the tang?

That's retarded.

Bad end for Shinji though, unlike Congratulations.

>Who says that nobody else wanted to return from the tang?
Shinji's dead, soulless eyes

meant for

It's quite clear after no one returned except the two.

Yeah because he could see the whole planet from that Beach.

It's one of the most disgusting endings I've ever seen, let alone one of the most despicable messages.
The ultimate negation of the individual, life and nature, all to appease a corrupt, mutually destructive and ironically nihilist form of collectivism.
The Jewish symbolism was truly fitting.
>inb4

You can stay in denial, but in works of art there are little things called metaphors, and the end of End of evangelion is this with the bible.

A good end for everyone except shinji and asuka

It took some time for Asuka to come back compared to Shinji so the rest might also take some time.

Asuka wanted to get back from the start. The primal soup is not a place where you just say: "Oh, I'm bored, guess I go back!" The more you stay, the more you accept it as reality. I think it's something like what happened in Inception.

Well at least a few people are probably coming back later, hopefully

> The ultimate negation of the individual, life and nature, all to appease a corrupt, mutually destructive and ironically nihilist form of collectivism.
Which is ultimately rejected as the absolute negation of humanity.

Then who buried Misato ?

Shinji I guess. But what is your point with this?

I have no point I'm just wondering. For me Shinji just got back from Instrumentality when he's on the beach.

It could only be him, because he took the cross. Also, we can't be sure how much time passes in this scene, maybe it's like what is in the end of Space odyssey 2001 if you know what scene I'm talking about.

So he escaped escapism?

It's Adam and Lilith

>So this was a "good end", right?
Hard to say. It's not even clear if human instrumentality was avoidable or not. The angels probably couldn't have been stopped from reaching Lilith forever (they kept getting stronger). But who the fuck knows how else things could have turned out. That's the magical part of the story. Third impact does whatever the fuck they decide to pull out of their asses.
Human instrumentality might have been the only or most desirable outcome for humanity. And as apocalyptic as it is, it's not so bad. People's "souls" live on. Lots of them will lose themselves in this united state, so it's arguable if they've been "saved" or not. They can leave though. And the Earth is still habitable (but it must be harsh).
I don't think it matters very much at this point. A lot of things in Eva are directed directly at the watcher. Sometimes very intensely so. The "united" state of humanity is like fantasy. Fantasy within a single mind, or all minds somehow united together, are similar in some ways. Everything interconnected and no real interaction with other, independent minds. In a single person's fantasies, a lot of ideas from other people are incorporated. The unified humanity is like the ultimate fantasy and also the ultimate loss of individuality.
This is targeted at the watcher and his relationship with this show and his tendency to retreat into fantasy. And difficulties with connecting with real people presumably. This is criticizing "otaku culture". NERV/SEELE might have been like the corporate world constantly trying to sell you fantasy. Telling you that this what you need, this is the only way to "save" yourself from boredom.
Checking out of fantasy can be harsh. The post third impact Earth seems very harsh now. With the fantasy gone, for now, Shinji's and Asuka have nothing else but each others, are they are far from having addressed their issues with themselves and with each others.

Dude, pls. Adam and Eve as in the bible...

Pretty sure it was meant to disgust you though.

気持ち悪い

Yeah I know very well.
But the difference between the ending of 2001 and EoE is that the book by Arthur C Clarke explains in details, without any ambiguity and actualy pretty simply what happens in the end.
Kubrick just didn't have any good way of doing it as well without resorting to a voice over and his stupid pride probably forbade him of doing that. Thus the incomprehensible shit he chose to serve us instead.

But if Shinji did it, it was probably was he was still in god mode. We have no indication of how much time has passed but for me Shinji and Asuka just got out when they wash up on the beach.

There were only like 12 Angles. In EoE they talk a little bit about what they are going to do now that all the angels are defeated.

>12 Angles
There only 3 angles. Acute, right, and obtuse.

First Shinji comes out. There are a few cuts here, you even see Rei, so this can indicate how time passes. And Asuka just suddenly appears. Its probably not real time.

Oh yeah you're right. I forgot about that. They knew how many angels there were somehow. As foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls or from their research in Antarctica maybe.
If it was really over and there were no more problems to be had with Adam stuff then yeah I'd say it's a bad ending if only because it was forced by a few individuals and what this actually does to people isn't well explained. Really something there should have been a referendum on or something.

>even those who died long ago, became one and suffering was erased.

I thought it was implied others would come back to reality after Shinji + Asuka.

There were rumors of a planned alternate ending though where only Shinji came back: the irony being that after finally getting over his fear of others he was left alone forever.

No, this is the first shot of Shinji after instrumentality, it's only after this and the close-up on their hands that he turns his head and sees Rei. So I'd be inclined to think it was real time, we just don't know for how long instrumentality has lasted.

The original take was him holding onto Rei's severed arm, so you'd see him holding Rei's hand, then the camera would pan over/zoom out and show no Rei attached to it, then he'd cry and the movie'd fade to black.

Tanging was played up as a forced religious salvation thing; people got released from the cycle of humanity by Rei as mother/reaper. It was probably supposed to be a fucked up Buddhist thing, because the Aum Shinrikyo attacks really hit Anno hard. So it's an unasked for Nirvana of nonexistence, which is a lot like mass killings if you squint.

Shit, that orignal take is fucking crushing.

>The original take was him holding onto Rei's severed arm, so you'd see him holding Rei's hand, then the camera would pan over/zoom out and show no Rei attached to it, then he'd cry and the movie'd fade to black.
Very reminiscent of Devilman's ending, with Satan talking to Akira only for it to be revealed that he died in the fight.

Well, guess I remembered wrong, but that doesn't mean you were right. It's still not real time.

You mean One More Final ? What makes you think the scene is not in real time ?

No. All progress humanity has made is to reduce suffering.

The cuts, and there are more returning scenes, like the moon with the blood trail.

Call it suffering is for defeatists. They're challenges. They're walls. Are you going to let a wall beat you? You keep at it.
And we're doing a horrible job at doing that except for ourselves. Help OTHER people out. Forget your own needs.

Well yeah, everyone was granted their dream world, basically they all went to "heaven" and will be reborn whenever they want to, and if you take in count the last chapter of the manga then yeah, pretty much a good amount of people decided to be born again.

I only liked the fighting robots, fuck these might feelings I'm depressed kind of shit

It is literally the same exact ending, how are people still differentiating between them.

Nigger you're retarded. Returning to God or whatever you want to call it is very much a part of ALL Abrahamic religions (and many non-Abrahamic), tang is basically paradise, all the souls together without suffering, and not all individuality is lost at all.

inb4 fuck you kike on a stick worshipper im pagan muh odin

t. person who doesn't believe in the afterlife or God.
Salvation comes from holding on to your faith in the face of adversity and hoping for reward in the afterlife. It's braving through suffering and hoping what comes after is better. Not instant gratification.

Where do you see the method mentioned? I only see discussion around the result, not how it was achieved.

>became one and suffering was erased
That sounds like some commie nonsense. No individuality is as far from a good end as you can get.

>humanity removes all the angels, proving itself superior lifeform
>then fucks itself removing own potential for the evolution and moving forward because some faggot wants his wife back and his faggot son is sad that some cunt wont sleep with him
No, this doesnt looks like good end, unless you think doing what Anti-Spiral did with themselves in TTGL is good.

>can't into inb4

So you're saying that without suffering that we'd never make progress and there'd be zero chance and we'd live and endless and meaningless existence?

We only saw one beach. It's a bit of a stretch to say it's confirmed that they're the only two people in the whole world to come back

How bad with the next film be? Is it just going to be shinji crying for 3 hours

Read the manga, is SO much better.

3.33 was everything bad about the Evangelion turned into a movie.

3.0+1.0 can be great if it undoes literally everything 3.33 stood for.

I haven't seen any of the rebuilds? Should I watch them? I read about the gay piano scene and cat fighting eva's and that seems stupid. But I can't tell if I'm missing out or not.

You're not missing out. Essentially, Anno is a huge otaku that's butthurt about Rei being more popular than his favorite character Asuka.

Rebuild is his "rewrite" of the original canon which turns Asuka into a half-angel like Rei for no reason whatsoever, and makes Rei into a retarded clone and splits her character into two. Yes there's now many Reis running around at the same time and they're all worse than the original in every respect.

Not to mention they had this plotline where Shinji tried to save Rei, and now conveniently enough, everyone in the entire world hates him for it. Sort of representing Anno's aggressiveness towards those who like Rei there.

The Rebuild's are Anno's convenient fabrication that he made as an attempt to take revenge on the reality that made Rei #1 and Asuka #3 or #4.

Don't shit up this thread too

...

>p-please don't take away my evangelion escapism

>Implying that Evangelion is about anything besides Anno going apeshit

Shinji and Rei2 are legitimately a great couple.

Yes, I know she's a clone of his mother, but who cares? She's still her own person. Just shows Shinji takes after his dad a little after all

1.11 is pretty good for a recap movie and have some great action. 2.22 was somewhat okay, but altered characters making them more...i dont know, generic or simplistic i guess, it also altered some of events, but overall i still think it was decent.
3.0 is where everyone saying everything goes to shit. Its completely different from the rest of the movies, and tone in general, without almost any explanations why events turned out how they turned out. Everyone shitting on 3.0 and i guess rightfully so, but it had some neat ideas too and probably wouldn't be such clusterfuck if 3.0+1.0 was released shortly after explaining all these sudden changes and new raised questions.
i think more eva is still better then no eva at all, id say watch it, at very least you could shitpost about how bad rebuilds are like everyone else

Anno hates Rei and uses 3.33 as a way to attack the Rei/Shinji ship. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.

Gay homo shipping and toxic-selfdestructive ships are a-OK as long as it involves his favorite characters and doesn't put them in a bad light. Hence they scrapped Asuka lusting after Kaji in the Rebuild series.

>Eva Asuka

Deeply flawed and interesting character. Someone Shinji can help and who can help him in return.

>Rebuild Asuka

A perfect waifu with no flaws or issues. Never fails, or significantly doubts or worries. Shinji can't do anything for her because there's nothing wrong with her, conversely there's no reason for her to help him.

But that's fine, this Asuka isn't for Shinji. She's for Anno, the viewers and all the EVA fans. She's the perfect Asuka you all wanted the original Asuka to be.

Could you fucking stop please? You have another thread about this up.

Yes, exactly. Only it isn't fine, because the character is crap and the story suffers for it.

Rebuild Asuka is made for the worst type of person who watches Evangelion: The Asuka fan.

Shikinami is literally the idealised self from original Asuka's fantasies. If it really is a repeat, she could be the character the original dreamed up in the Tang.

I actually think it's a really interesting point, not one I've seen raised before, and I'd love to see an Asuka fans counter argument against it.

>Anno hates Rei and uses 3.33 as a way to attack the Rei/Shinji ship. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.

But 2.22 is really nice for Rei-shipping. And you can just stop there with the rebuilds and save yourself from watching the craptastic 3.33.

They don't have one. Notice the shitposting and damage control they make? Begging people to stop discussing it?

It really tells the whole story, doesn't it?

just read this faggot here

Everybody died.

> I'd love to see an Asuka fans counter argument against it.
You ignore every argument against yours. Every single post you've made has been counter argued and you don't acknowledge it, you just keep spouting your arguments without changing them or adjusting for the answers you are given. It wouldn't be bad if you didn't keep boasting victory in every post as if the counter arguments were never made.
When things don't go your way you just start insulting your opponents, samefagging obviously and strawmanning their posts as those of midnless asukafags even when it's clearly not the case.
Just like here.

You are an aggressive cunt clearly not interested in a meaningful debate. Fuck off.

Rei never was about shipping. Despite being the #1 character, Rei consistently has the least shipping material being produced for her. Rei is a more independent character - her popularity isn't based on pairing her with another character. Although that isn't to say that people DONT ship Rei - a lot do. Just relatively little to the rest considering how popular Rei is.

So 2.22 is a double-edged sword. It makes great potential for Rei's character, but also weakend it to the point where Rei became a "damsel in distress". Then it demolished both character and ship in 3.33.

or here

See my point? Here the angry damage-controlling Asuka fan goes at it again: They'll just accuse everyone with rampant conspiracy theories in order to divert from the fact that there exists no counter-argument at all to what the Rebuild series is: a rewrite crafted to favor Anno's favorite characters, Asuka and to some degree, Kaworu.

Just for asking about it, you've become a target too. Tells you a bit how hurting the Asuka fans are, since they're so desperate to pretend Evangelion wasn't "ruined" to please them. Incapable of accepting responsibility, they are.

We don't know how many people came back. Could be hundreds of thousands. Obviously they are not going to show up in the last scenes. Somehow I don't think it would be as good as it is with a bunch of people stumbling around confused on that beach

> I am a victim everyone is mean to me even Anno
Fuck off

and for the record:
>Every single post you've made has been counter argued and you don't acknowledge it,
has literally never happened.

>You ignore every argument against yours.

I'm not him, I just thought it was an interesting argument. I was wondering how sound it was.

Threads dead and no-one debated him on it. I'm interested to hear the other side of it.

Inb4 you accuse me of samefagging

...

If there was another side, you'd have heard it by now.

>Threads dead and no-one debated him on it. I'm interested to hear the other side of it.
tl;dr : this entire theory rests on Asuka being a mindless two-dimensional drone character pupeted by NERV

The mere fact that Anno seems to hate his fanbase and their opinons is what bothers me the most about Eva.

Eh, I wouldn't bother. The argument pops up now and then, and it turns out Anno really is that kind of guy. Obviously some Eva fans and in particular Asuka fans are upset by this and start huge shitstorms because they need to defend the pampering their waifu has gotten and the purity of Anno's intent in rewriting EVA to better suit them.
If you take the Harry Potter movies where they changed Hermione's character (made her unafraid of heights, moved her flaws onto Ron, gave her the good and brave dialoge of other characters etc), multiply it by ten, you'll get the current EVA situation. Imagine angry otaku weebs being the core fanbase, and not simply children. Yikes.

Adam: t. lit. "Ruddy or red colored"
Eve: t. lit. "Of the many"

>So 2.22 is a double-edged sword. It makes great potential for Rei's character, but also weakend it to the point where Rei became a "damsel in distress". Then it demolished both character and ship in 3.33.

I think people worry way too much about this "Damsel in Distress" thing, not just about Rei but in general. They're combat buddies, him saving her is normal, she protected him against the second angel just the same.

Unless I've forgotten something major, what happened to her was almost exactly what happened in the TV show, the only difference is that Shinji had a chance to save her rather than her blowing herself up.

Shinji and Rei2 were really cute together, him bringing her out of her shell, making her care for someone besides her obligations and her waking him up to his own desire to live was great.

Him throwing himself away, Shinji, of all people, charging forwards instead of away, pushing though his doubts/limits, going through all that pain and suffering to PULL SOMEONE BACK TO HIM, was a perfect moment. A final conclusion to the hedgehogs dilemma.

Which is, of course, why 3.33 ignoring all of that and getting rid of Rei so they don't have to address that major part of Shinji's character growth was incredibly frustrating.

He only hates those who dislikes what he likes. He's the classic butthurt otaku you'd find on Sup Forums. I guess that's why Sup Forums loves him, he's just like Sup Forums.

He's fine with people making a waifu out of Asuka or Kaworu, since he likes them. But say that Rei was interesting, and Anno will go on a passive-aggressive tangent about how he "has no emotional connection to Rei", that he thought the character was finished after episode six (despite contradicting himself moments later) and everything anti-Rei he can come up with. After 20 years he's never said anything positive about Rei.

But sure, he'll proclaim Asuka his favorite because she's cute and release books titled "I LOVE KAWORU", and give them the best treatment in all spinoffs. Just god forbid you like Rei, it triggers him.

>But sure, he'll proclaim Asuka his favorite because she's cute and release books titled "I LOVE KAWORU", and give them the best treatment in all spinoffs. Just god forbid you like Rei, it triggers him.
I wonder what he'd say about people that like all 3 of them.

>I think people worry way too much about this "Damsel in Distress" thing, not just about Rei but in general. They're combat buddies, him saving her is normal, she protected him against the second angel just the same.
>Unless I've forgotten something major, what happened to her was almost exactly what happened in the TV show, the only difference is that Shinji had a chance to save her rather than her blowing herself up.

First: Rei didn't die against Zeruel. Secondly, you're right about it not being a big deal - if not for the fact that Rei was KEPT as a damsel in distress. She never got out anyway and never did anything. People who hated Rei already during 2.22 were criticizing Rei for being a damsel in distress, but at that time, it was BS. Because Rei saved both Shinji, Asuka and the otheres many times before, didn't make them damsel in distresses.

Rei never got the chance to become anything more, and it was totally pointless in the Rebuilds, and a clear act of sabotage against the character. They genuinely didn't want Rei to be something in these movies, because they wanted Kaworu and Asuka to take the spotlight. They go out of their way to sabotage Rei, it deserves a whole set of threads on it's own even.
Even if they wanted Rei to die and come back as Rei III to develop her, they didn't even do that. They just left Rei inside the EVA, and made a COMPLETELY NEW CHARACTER to fill the gaping void Rei left behind.

3.33 was all about the pandering. Asuka and Kaworu fans love to see Rei as a "doll", and that's what they got in 3.33. Just to push Kawoshin and Asuka popularity.

Honestly I could barely stand Hermione in the books. She totally eclipsed Ron's role (assuming the original roles of their trifecta in the first book was meant to mean anything) and seemed way too much like Mary Sue to appeal to younger girls.

I understand I'm the only person in the world that doesn't ship Harry/Hermione, but damn man, she was just too perfect.

Knowing she was worse in the movies (made even worse by being crazy hot instead of average/homely) definitely doesn't appeal.

Man, I could not stand Kawarou.

If you want it stopped, refute the argument. Since you can't, he's free to continue.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary, user?