Who was in the right here: Saber, or Kerry?

Who was in the right here: Saber, or Kerry?

God

>kill an unarmed and harmless opponent because edge
kerry a shit

>Kayneth
>unarmed and harmless
That's probably what you thought about him the first time he got utterly btfo by Kerry, and yet he still came back for round 2. Unless he's 6 feet in the dirt he's not out of the game, and he's not harmless.

>Not just putting "I will not fight you again directly or indirectly" in the geas
The entire point in the end is that Kerry doesn't know any solutions aside from killing people.

Is that Violet?

>purposefully putting loopholes in the contract just to keep your sworn enemy who already promised to skin you alive, alive

Kerry was right. He wasn't trying to be an utilitarian edgelord here, he just wanted to end things quickly and safer, nothing wrong with that

>Kill the guy out of pure spite even though there's a non violent solution
Not even Kerry's that bad.

No, he was definitely being a huge fucking edgelord.
>alright, now that you're basically disarmed as a thread (no Servant, no Command Seals), Maiya, merc this fucker
"Kerry pls give me a painless death"
>nah lol can't do that, just gonna smoke and not give a fuck, man I'm cool
Tryhard edgelord supreme.

>Leaving Kayneth alive came with a guarantee that he would eventually come back to try and kill Kerry and Kerry's loved ones. The guy had already proven his capability to do this. He took the simplest and most effective method to ensure his family's long-term safety.

In this particular situation Kerry was right. If saber just wants to duel she should have joined the kendo club, not the HGW.

this

>"Kerry pls give me a painless death"
>nah lol can't do that, just gonna smoke and not give a fuck, man I'm cool
He literally couldn't by the contract Kayneth had just signed, is this post bait?

It was his attitude. You literally had this grizzled noir looking motherfucker leaning back and lighting up a smoke while a man bleeds out right next to him begging for death. Whether it was right or not, he shifted into maximum edge.

Are you forgetting that Kayneth is a complete asshole that already murdered the neutral priest in the church so he could stop other people from getting more command seals?

What’s wrong with a little spite? It’s not like Kayneth lasted that long anyway.

This. Kerry did it in a very edgy way though.

Kerry knew that if he killed Kayneth, then Kayneth would win.

Kayneth wasn't Waver, he was definitely a threat. Kiritsugu destroyed his life with the origin bullet, he was not gonna stay quiet and dont do anything after his servant died

This is a war, kid, Keyneth knew very well what he was getting into. A master without a servant on the loose is still very dangerous because he can make another contract with a masterless servant.

I didn't know Kerry was canadian

>a master without a servant on the loose is still very dangerous because he can make another contract with a masterless servant
I wonder how many times they explained this in Zero, i remember they kept repeating it on and on

He graduated from being Canadian after refusing to kill Shirley

>implying anyone would be able to kill their genki brown childhood friend

>a mage with two command seals
>unarmed
>harmless

>Kayneth prepares a billion traps for Kiritsugu at the hotel
>has the nerve to bitch about Kiritsugu setting traps at the Einzbern manor
Why do people sympathize with this prick, again?

>No Command Spells
> No Servant
>No mana to supply a Servant
>Hotwheels
>no reason anybody would partner with him

He was literally more useless than Kariya and posed zero threat unless he could use his connections to somehow get Kishima Kouma on the phone. Then Kerry was a Shadow tier edgelord by mocking him while he was begging for death then acted uppity to his wife and had a monologue about how cruel the world is.

The point of that scene was Kerry is a childish edgemaster as it was in the VN. You're not supposed to think he's in the right.

>9th generation head of an established magus family doesn't have resources to fuck your shit up after you let him live and go home back to his base after you ruin his life

Whot the fuck sympathizes with bootleg Draco Malfoy? he was an asshole since EP1

You mean zero? He had the one from Risei that he used to ranca ga shinden and his wife stole the rest.

Saber was right but Kerry was correct.

this guy clearly does

I liked Diarmuid :(

Was Sola-Ui fucking Lancer behind Kayneth's back?

Saber is on the right, OP.

>with a guarantee that he would eventually come back to try and kill Kerry and Kerry's loved ones
You must have misunderstood me. I meant "I will not fight you again directly or indirectly" is something Kayneth signs in the geas to ensure he does not fight again afterwards.

His childhood is supposed to show why he takes no unnecessary risks and leave no loose ends. Y'know, because then his whole town wouldn't have turned into zombies.

>You're not supposed to think he's in the right

You're not SUPPOSED to think anything, dipshit. It is purposely open ended to let the viewer ponder and pick a side themselves, if they are so inclined.

Kayneth is scared shitless of Kerry and complete world salvation was only a day away.


-----------
Kayneth was such a fucking idiot.
>summon a Servant so shit the only halfway realistic way to win is to keep a low profile and engage in hit-n-run tactics while hoping Lady Luck smiles on you
>fucking draw everyone to his position and let him show off his entire skill set
>waste a command seal on making him attack Saber despite the situation calling for a retreat
>after revealing everything worth knowing about your team's capabilities, turtle up in the most high-profile hotel with no plan on how to proceed or even an idea of what the enemy combatants can do, showing your hand and gaining absolutely nothing for it but still act cocky
>walk in blind and alone into the lair of a man known as the Magus Killer and promptly get your shit pushed in
And so on. Every time he does anything it just makes everything worse, and just about every single time it would have been easy to see in advance that his chosen course of action was moronic.
------------

He was right in getting rid of Lancer as efficient as possible.

He went too far killing the master and his girlfriend afterwards though. They signed a contract and one was in a wheelchair with most of his magic circuits fried. They were harmless.

Kerry is a huge edgelord, but Saber is a huge retard.
I'd say Kerry was right here, because Saber is always wrong.

>implying that you can't get around something stupid like that

>You're not SUPPOSED to think anything

Zerofags in a nutshell.png The entire point of Kiritsugu's character here (and thus, half of FZ) is a continuing look at the Seigi no Mikata themes from FSN and how it relates back to Shirou

Kerry was right for the whole series. Mages are cunts and need to be purged.

t.butchi

How come Kayneths' magic circuits didn't go berserk when Kerry shot him in the shoulder with the contender? Did he not have an origin bullet loaded in it?

>Kayneth has easy access to rulebreaker
Tell me how you'd get over it?

it was something about "not a clean shot" or "he didn't use enough magic" if memory serves

It was a normal bullet to prove the Contender had enough firepower to break the basic mercury shield, so as to bait him into using his maximum mercury shield next time, as more magical energy = more damage from the Origin bullet.

With wording that vague, it's trivial. For one, it fails to put any restriction on Sola-Ui, being purely a contract between the El-Melloi and Emiya families. Kayneth's wife deciding of her own free will to go fuck up Kerry's family as revenge for her arm and her husband's everything is totally fair game under what you just posted. There's no real way to stop Kayneth from persuading people who are allied/indebted to him to go after the Emiyas by him mentioning how convenient it would be for his family if Kerry's family met a gruesome end. That's not providing any aid -- direct or indirect -- to Kerry's attackers, its merely him voicing his heartfelt opinion that he would be glad to see them all dead.

I'm not retarded, I am obviously aware of the parallels between Kiritsugu's and Shirou's visions and ideals. That being said, the reason for scenes like this one, or the meeting of kings scene, is not to illustrate that one character's ideology is the correct or incorrect view. It is simply showing viewers the conflicting worldviews at play.

Clearly Saber is on the right in that shot.

>and one was in a wheelchair with most of his magic circuits fried.
Who had spent a whole episode clawing his way back into relevancy, why do brainlets constantly understimate Kayneth's ability to come back from the brink?

...

>behind Kayneth's back
She fucked him right in front of Hot Wheels while he was crippled.

It was a summary example, I'm not going to go professional lawyer contract on an online discussion. I'm sure Kerry could have plugged up any loopholes on a 15 minute burger break.

Who was the worst: Makiri, Einzbern or Tohsaka?

>lancer crits himself

gets me evry tiem

>Spend weeks rules-lawyering the gias out with Kayneth and Sola-Ui to make sure they won't exploit any loopholes to come kill you in the future, while other servants win the Grail War behind your back and Irisviel suffers
>Or just fucking shoot him because you're not going to out-lawyer the mage who's spent his whole life rules lawyering with other mages in the Clock Tower

She abandoned Kayneth in the warehouse so she could be with Lancer. Lancer went back to Kayneth when he could not find her.

What was her plan before she was a hostage?

>By the power of this command seal, I order you to take me against this wall

Zouken a shit

His point was that Zero was about a conflict of ideals. Neither was right or wrong.

Except Saber, who Nasu clearly writes as being in the wrong.

>Except Saber, who Nasu clearly writes as being in the wrong.

why?

So you don't have to physically shoot a guy with the origin bullet to destroy their magic circuits? Merely shooting any magic construct/enchanted object they had created with their circuits with the origin bullet would do the same thing?

I don't think so. The Origin Bullet still has to make contact. It just does better when the circuits are "flexing," so to speak. The plan went thusly:
>demonstrate ineffectiveness of small-caliber fire to encourage Kayneth to raise a minor shield
>demonstrate that larger-caliber bullets can penetrate the minor shield to train Kayneth to raise a stronger shield that requires more magical output
>waggle Origin-loaded Contender in Kayneth's direction
>blast his fully-"flexed" circuits with Origin Bullet

Because of the "cut and tie" nature of the bullets, I imagine they can penetrate shields quite handily. It just only did the overload thing once it punched through the shield and actually tagged Kayneth.

What if Kiritsugu shot Zouken or Kariya with it?

Yeah but I don't remember the 2nd shot ever actually connecting with Kayneth's body. It got enveloped in the mercury shield but that seemed to have blocked the shot from physically hitting him -- you see the mercury-coated bullet fall to the floor.

>weeks
>I will force Sola-Ui to sign non aggression after she is able to
>I will not voice any contempt or take any action that would lead to harming your faction
Fuck it
>I will contact you [somehow] if I learn of any threats against you or a large population at hand
There, now you have an informant on top.

Man the F/Z anime adaptation fucked up in so many ways, and not just in the characterization.

The first shot was a normal large bullet focused on penetrating power. It have enough kinetic energy that most mages needs to devote a significant amount of magic power to defend against it. Basically it encourages the mage to use a lot more of their magic circuit the next time they expected the shot.

The second shot is the origin bullet, which doesn't need direct contact to work. The more magic circuit the enemy uses, the more magic circuit it will jumble up and destroy.

Because he's a melting pot of poor decisions.

Did you read the book?

No, the origin bullet doesn't need to make direct contact.

All it needs is contact with the enemy magecraft, which links back to the caster to create a feedback.

>Man the F/Z anime adaptation fucked up in so many ways, and not just in the characterization.

What else did it fuck up?

Tough question, especially in Zouken's case. I don't know how his being in several places at once would affect that. If
are right, I suppose it would burst all his worms everywhere. Probably kill Sakura, provided that she hasn't been dewormed by Dr. Kirei.

You're still making the critical mistake of giving Kayneth any opening at all. Any. Your 3rd greentext bullet doesn't stop him from writing any such opinions against Kerry's faction. That's two giases that you wrote up, and each of them would end up with Kayneth coming back to kill you. This is war, not a property sale, it's a fight to the fucking death. Take it seriously.

From the LN:

When Kiritsugu’s magecraft bullet is interfered by magecraft, the impact of the "Origin"
within the bullet would affect all the way down to the Magic Circuits of the practitioner.

If we were to compare a magus’s Magic Circuits as a high-voltage power cable, Kiritsugu’s
bullet would be a drop of water. What would happen if a conductive liquid attached to a
thickly-placed electrical circuit? The short-circuiting current would destroy the circuit itself,
resulting in permanent damage.
Just like that, shorting out Magic Circuits is the terrifying effect of Kiritsugu’s Mystic Code.
In order to avoid the damage of Kiritsugu’s magecraft bullets, one has to discard all
magecraft and purely defend the bullet by physical means. On that point, Kiritsugu’s choice
of using .30-06 Springfield bullets is a malicious one. There isn’t something that can
completely block this specialized hunting rifle round to begin with. This is a type of bullet
that excelled in penetration. As long as one isn’t in an armored vehicle, one can’t avoid
getting hurt.

Man, Kerry really should have powdered another one of his ribs to even out and put it into a knife or something. Bullets are more effective, but they're limited. Can't run out of stab.

Will Fate/Zero ever get an official English translation?

God damn that is a word salad. Why are LN translations so extremely verbose?

It was a Japanese to Chinese to English fan translation

Read the VN.

It couldn't do characterization of Kiritsugu and Kotomine right, because of their introverted nature. (Much of their characterization were done in third person narration)
And other characters too, like Tokiomi. For example it never even hinted at the fact that Tokiomi himself was a mage with mediocre potential, and and to put in magnitude more effort to get to his status and image.
Not to mention the very nature of magecraft and mage association that pushed him to make his decision with his daughters.

And that's not mentioning the clumsy adaptation of some of the fight scene.

Why not translate directly from the japanese?

Presumably because the interested party knew Chinese and English, but not Japanese.

>doesn't stop him from writing any such opinions against Kerry's faction.
I'm pretty sure that counts as "take any action that would lead to harming your faction"

The entire point of Zero is that Kiritsugu is too obsessed over killing every problem. Yes, it may be effective, but it leaves him with nothing in the end, contrasted with Shirou/Archer UBW ending who can at least hold on to an ideal they're proud of once they fail as to not break like Kerry. Quit going against the entire theme of the story just because you like edge.

Did you prefer UBW or HF?

They rushed the ending too, right?

>The entire point of Zero is that Kiritsugu is too obsessed over killing every problem. Yes, it may be effective, but it leaves him with nothing in the end,

That's not what the point of F/Z was if you read the LN.

The point was there was no feasible solution to achieve Kiritsugu wish.

Also Kiritsugu doesn't want the solutions to be killing in the first place. Which was why Kiritsugu pretty much never though of himself as a good man.

Not going out of your way to leave your enemies alive in the middle of a war isn't "edge" you fucking fool, it's how you fight wars.

Who were the most threatening masters and servants in fate/zero?

>Which was why Kiritsugu pretty much never though of himself as a good man.

Why did he get married into a German family and have a daughter then?

>stole

Yeah.

They completely skipped over the fact that Kiritsugu was constantly making trips to Einzbern territory to try to get Illya back.
And that he was losing his ability to use magecraft.
And that he setup the bomb network on the Greater Grail leyline to cause a chain reaction explosion to collapse the cavern when enough mana have been collected.

>They completely skipped over the fact that Kiritsugu was constantly making trips to Einzbern territory to try to get Illya back.
But he does mention this, though

The anime hardly even talked about that. Even the F/SN VN would explain more about that.

Revival of Gilgamesh?

You mean the scene of Gilgamesh with Angra Mainyu/Corrupted Grail?

>Grail War is and actual war
In real life you don't pull that shit because there's no magical contracts. Kerry had a solution not only to spare lives but can help him in the future. But no, sparing the lives of everyone else in that building he blew up reminded him he wasn't being edgy enough and he went back.

>grail war is an actual war
Yes. Masters who don't understand this are the first to die.