Best character arcs?

best character arcs?

I vote for
1. Juri
2. Miki
3. Mikage
4. saionji
......
10. Chuchu
.....
999999999. Utena

nanami >>>>>> everyone else

This desu

fuck you're right, I fogot about that. okay, I change my list to put her at the top but I don't think I'll change the rest

I have a theory she isnt in ohtori in the movie because she left after utena

1. Anthy
2. Utena
3. Akio
4. Juri
5. Mikage
6. Saionji.
7. Nanami
8. Miki
9. Touga

anthy and utena practically have no arc

anthy especially. her arc is "don't be a deceitful, evil bitch that gets other girls raped"

Make Nanami #1 and switch Miki with Saionji, with Touga and Akio following, and we have a deal.

Utena really needed a fourth cour to flesh out Utena and Anthy's arc
One using the cut jousting and gun duels

>anthy and utena practically have no arc

the ENTIRE SHOW is their arc

You can trivialize anything. How can you say Utena's backstory, her history with her family, the rise of her idealism out of that history, here loss of that idealism and in the end finding a new path and guiding others through it is no arc. You seem to have just some irrational bias agains the character. I mean yeah, Juri is hot, but clearly her arc doesn't have as much depth. It's pretty surface level and we just see her change, we never come to understand how her envirement shaped the way she changes and reacts to change as in the case of Utena, Anthy or Akio.

Agree with this list but I'd bump Touga way up, make him 5, bump the rest down and throw Akio to the very bottom.

Wasn't the whole point of Akio that he DIDN'T have any development? He'd rather stay in his "cozy coffin" than go to the real world.

Akio is an ass but he didn’t rape Utena or those girls and guys.

What, the whole point of Akio is that he's basically Utena and went through the exact same arc at her. It's just that Akio through his lost of idealism degenerated, became manipulative and closed himself in another cage, while Utena found the means to go a step beyond and free herself from it.

Akio is a rotten version of Peter Pan, he is not the kid who never grows but the man who keeps being a manchild.

Is Akio a soyboy?

utena is only a caricature though. she never learns a single thing throughout the series until the very end.

its obvious she is just commanding anthy around as early as episode 4 or so. and even after touga proves it to her, she just keeps doing it

you'll note in the bell episode they keep comparing nanami to utena. because utena literally is thicker than nanami

it isnt untilt he final ep, literally getting stabbed to death by anthy, that utena figures out "oh, I've been commanding her"

that is a good arc, and it is appropriate. but in the interim 39 eps there is nothing else

similar to anthy

akio'd go in the 6 slot, and I guess touga after because I believe at that point there are no more mcs. I didn't like touga much. not that he's bad, but he's not very interesting either. but he's a bit of a plot device.

So? Juri's arc is literally getting over a girl and that's it.

Touga is an awful person but he potrays what is to be an eggocentric dumb teen who sees in Akio what he thinks is to be an adult, a masturbatory fantasy about a handsome guy who can get all the pussy and ass with no consequences while holding an aura of mystery but that deep down is empty.

In the movie, but in the show maybe not

I am basically an anti feminist but I think you'd be making a very hard case to say that anthy isnt the most evil character in the series and that akio isn't very close behind

the entire series is about puberty and fucking. they manipulate fucking and people's psychology to evil ends. I'm not sure you can't call that rape

Touga is a good person though, probably one of the best in the entire show.

Juri didn’t get over her, mostly Ruka’s dark miracle was dying after being an ass to Chiori so she would get stuck with Juri again. Though, he probably wanted to show Juri a better miracle, being something supernatural or just the will to give up her stupid crush.

I think he grows up with the story, he is awful for several episodes, he even fucks Kozue just to trigger Miki, and manipulates Nanami for his own sake.

this. his arc was great too, don't know why he's so low on these lists

>It's a Nanami episode

>mfw
>They also get better trough the show

And I am saying he didn’t rape them, they wanted him and they got him, even old babas were lusting for him and weren’t “innocent” underage but grow up women with no self control.

>t. brainlet
from ikuhara:

I finally realized the truth.

To think that she loved me back! What a miracle! But…

“The loser in love is the one who lets their heart be ruled by it.”

Everyone’s adopted a provocative attitude towards someone of the opposite sex that they like at least once or twice, to get that person to notice them. So it’s okay if I do that.

This love will crumble if we touch. But when people don’t touch, the love eventually dies away.

That’s why I decided to keep your love prisoner. To make sure that you love me forever.

That game will make our love “eternal.” I’m sure of it.

We were “lovers lost from the beginning.”


Juri's arc is about cynicism and control in relationships. its actually rather insightful. I'd say most people haven't figured out the basic dynamic of a relationship. so, you, not understanding it, are calling it simple? yeah right, buddy

I get it. I also think that it doesnt come across strongly draped in the fantastical imagery ikuhara tends to. it isn't bleak enough

You're leaving out a lot of stuff including Anthy and Utena's late night conversations in bed, the love triangle with Akio which causes both girls to reevaluate each other, and Anthy's suicide attempt followed by their reconciliation. And while most of this happens in the third season because that is it's focus you can see Anthy coming out of her shell over the course of the first two seasons, her dialogue becomes much more natural and she lets her true feelings show more freely. "As long as you're in love it doesn't matter how you feel," etc.
Basically you need to pay more attention. Just because it isn't the focus for much of the show doesn't mean it isn't happening.

>anthy is the most evil character in the series
t. Akio

Not him, but Anthy is essentially a non-character until the last arc. I suppose that's the point though.

he might have "died" just like utena. people seem to have forgotten him, other than juri

the miracle he offers juri is the shock to knock her out of her cynicism, and force her to let go of her control issues

ruka doesnt care if juri loves shiori. he hopes for them to be less poisonous, and perhaps, one day, meet for real, rather than try to control each other (a better done arc of anthy/akio)

Oh I agree, in fact I really disliked Anthy until the last arc. Her passive aggressiveness and her purposfully choosing to push other character's buttons are great on rewatches though

But to say she's the most evil character in the show is just ignoring the entire message of SKU.

I loved the little chat they had before her attempt of suicide, where Utena is eating a cookie and Anthy spits the story about the Belladona, and Utena just says “The tea is also poisoned”, it just sums up in one scene the tension instead of ten episodes about cat fights.

Listen more closely to the things Anthy says and you will realize she is most definitely not a non-character. Almost every time she speaks or does something in the first two seasons it has some other meaning. All the Nanami episodes also tell us stuff about Anthy both how similar she is to Nanami and what a bitch Anthy is for putting Nanami through all that stuff.

this

>when she calls Saionji "senpai" after Utena beats him

I agree anthy is a much bigger character than utena

everything she does is so vile though, that I just cant manage to like her. it is so vile it is like she is a personification of female vice (hint hint)

she's a good character and drives the entire series. but she's a force of nature moreso than an actual person

mainly I am critical of utena

look at the ikuhara commentary. anthy begs her brother to be a princess for eternity, and he is the nly other one that lives for eternity, setting up his fall and everything to come after

Did Anthy really despised Nanami? After all she somehow manages to keep her feelings for Touga pure, while Anthy and Akio were beyond any cure.

thats the reason anthy despises her. nanami is relatively pure despite touga being scummy, but anthy is pure poison and is the one that corrupted dios

I think that is exactly the reason Anthy hates Nanami so much. She sees in Nanami a more innocent version of herself. And since Anthy gives in to the worst parts of herself and hates herself for doing so it infuriates her to see someone like Nanami who hasn't let herself go in the same way, especially when Nanami is so ignorant. They're very similar characters, and I think the similarity is one of the things which pisses Anthy off the most.

Anthy didn’t corrupted Dios, it was the lazy asses of women and also men who were unable to do shit on their own that fucked Dios, i) by draining his energy, and ii) by making him enamoured and dependant of the idea of him being designed for getting princesses and being adored.
Anthy tried to save her brother but he was lost, body and mind, but probably his soul still got some extra time.

Anthy didn't enjoy being the Rose Bride. Did she get some sort of weird, smug satisfaction from the shit she did? Yeah, but that's because of 100+ years of getting impaled by humanity's hate, dubiously consensual incest, abuse and stockholm's syndrome.

Any news about the new manga special chapters? I only read an article about the one dedicated to Touga and Saionji.

I didn't sympathize with Anthy until I watched the show for the third time. While she might be a total shitheel she is obviously in a very fucked up situation, and the lowkey sass she deploys is legendary.

"I'm starting to feel bad for Saionji..." -Utena
"OK!" - Anthy

I also love how she names her animals after Nanami.

I'm grateful for the existence of Anthy fandom because it makes it extremely easy to identify that a person is a piece of shit.

t. Akio

Please, explain yourself.

I'm grateful for the existence of Anthy haters because it makes it extremely easy to identify that a person is a piece of shit.

t. Utena

Immediate triggering. Thanks for proving the point.

Do you really think she stole Dios from a bunch of damnsels in distress? Do you work for Disney?

>user asks you to explain your point
>LOL SO TRIGGERED

I said explain, so we can know why you hate her. Don’t be so sensitive.

dios couldn't stop helping people. this multiplied their helplessness. that is a problem.

but then, the reaction isnt to keep him all to yourself. the reaction is to force him to learn and become an adult. anthy traps akio in the observatory. so that he can only see and never touch the destiny he is obsessed by

she became the rose bride by her choice. dios never asked her to do it. the fact she regrets it doesnt mean she didn't choose it

its funny, yes

anthy is still basically a personification of the most evil of all females though

you should understand but not feel sympathy

The pro-Anthy vs. anti-Anthy shit is the Auska vs. Rei of the SKU fandom

Anthy and AKio both trapped themselves there, there is no one evil, that’s why is so fucked up, and that’s why Anthy leaves at the end while Akio still wants to be a manchild.

Hi Penguidrum user.

you can try articulating an actual reason I'm not correct, but you aren't capable, so...

I think Akio traps Anthy just as much as she traps him. They have an incredibly fucked up dynamic which hurts them both but I think you have to say Akio is the one who is more responsible for it continuing. He's consciously using the duels to keep Anthy dependent on him, at the finale we see he never wanted the duels to end really because he was already in control of the school.

Anthy isn't completely innocent but she isn't a true villain like Akio. A lot of the show is about forgiveness and love, and I think we are supposed to be endeared to Anthy at least somewhat.

I mean, you fail to understand Utena on the most basic level and think it's a tale about the evil Anthy imprisoning the poor Akio.


Not only that, but people have explaining to you over and over in multiple threads and you refuse to learn.

Not even close. There can always be "debate" about who's "better" between Asuka and Rei, while it's just common sense that Anthy is garbage. Only broken people and the mentally ill sympathize with her strongly.
Penguindrum is objectively better than SKU. The latter is just more popular due to homosexuals and degenerates gravitating to it.

>Penguindrum is objectively better than SKU. The latter is just more popular due to homosexuals and degenerates gravitating to it.

oh shit it is him

Will we ever have a decent Utena thread again without this faggot shitting it up with autism?

>Only broken people and the mentally ill sympathize with her strongly.
>latter is just more popular due to homosexuals and degenerates gravitating to it.
Why do you people like or even watched Utena?

But the series is about mentally ill people and broken people.

Ok, so you are going to be that guy in these threads. Really man, you should go to Disney threads, is more easy to digest.

So, at the end what happened with her and childhood friend?

akio is responsible for that part because that the thing MEN do. they'll do it in a health manner if they can

the inital poison, the initial CHOICE is anthys

you call the most evil thing the one that is first chosen, e.g. assault, rather than self defense

ikuhara ultimately preaches forgiveness, even for akio. but in the end, anthy drove everything nd manipulated even akio

you really think ikuhara, a japanese in 1999. had been reading your obese feminist transgender scholarship from 2015?

get real you fat pig

penguindrum is more abstract so I don't think dumb people understand it at all

utena is more archetypal. that makes it better to normal people.

the art direction in utena is definitely better though, and, lets be real, for most feminist retards aesthetics is 99% of the appeal. hence their anger if you point out that feminists are ugly

>but then, the reaction isnt to keep him all to yourself. the reaction is to force him to learn and become an adult. anthy traps akio in the observatory. so that he can only see and never touch the destiny he is obsessed by
Kek, what.

Akio is a mainchild that feeds on a power-fantasy he himself created and refuses to grow up and literally tries to become a teenager again. The lesson at the end of the series is that he could just leave but he'd rather play pretend.

Anthy is an abused housewife that was the only person that genuinely cared for Akio and didn't see him as an ideal, and because of the horrific experience with the swords of hate/outside she's too afraid to let go until Utena tries to reach for her.

kek the butthurt in utena threads are always a blast
>penguindrum is better
>why did you even watched utena?!?!?!??!1
they aired like 13 years apart lol

To actually talk about SKU:
They get together as a couple and Wakaba has a girl who follows her around like she did to Utena. It's at the end of the last episode.

Does anyone know anything about horoscopes? I'm trying to figure out what this sequence means. Here the shadow is being cast over the virgo symbol while Saionji confronts Anthy in episode 2.

>Astrologers ascribe certain personality traits to a person born under the Virgo: people born under this sign are typically analytical, kind, hardworking and practical. According to astrologers, Virgos tend to worry often; they hate being the center of attention. They are also known for being modest, faithful, quiet, and very persuasive, as well as for having a good sense of reasoning and memory. Virgos are also known for their intellect and usually enjoy art, literature, writing, mathematics,[5] and are skilled at completing detailed work.[6]

A lot of that relates to Anthy's character, plus the association with the virgin maiden. But this part isn't really what I'm confused about.

>people actually think japanese people tolerate gays and feminists
both have been relegate to fujoshi and otaku realms of japanese society. you people don't seem to understand this

hijacking a series about puberty for girls fro 1999 to promote 2015 transgenderism makes you people look dumb

I think blood type was also mentioned during Nanami’s egg episode.

Cont.
When Utena comes out to yell at Saionji the shadow changes to be halfway between Virgo and Libra. Libra stands for judgement which is what Utena is doing, but I'm curious if anyone knows any other associations it could have or what it may mean that the shadow is halfway between the two symbols.

samefag pls go

There are cusp signs in the zodiac (the in betweens of two signs), maybe it has something to do with the Virgo-Libra cusp?

That would be pro-Nanami vs. anti-Nanami, actually. Then again, no character is SKU is completely without fault for causing suffering (either to themselves or others).

>ikuhara ultimately preaches forgiveness, even for akio. but in the end, anthy drove everything nd manipulated even akio
>you really think ikuhara, a japanese in 1999. had been reading your obese feminist transgender scholarship from 2015?

Utena, the tale of a man abused by his wife.

You should check Penguinbear, it's a pretty good series about homophobia in Japan by Ikuhara.

I have no idea why a Sup Forumstard would like a series like Utena or Ikuhara stuff.

saionji is the virgo user. you have your analysis fucked up. check his birthday on google

I am pengruindrum user, just fyi. you people can be incorrect about even simple details but yet lambast me

I didn't know about cusps! Might be something there, I just wish there was a more concrete source for astrology stuff, when I google it all I get is trash websites.

I hate even replying to you but read the list of character traits and think about Anthy, then add on top of that the virgin maiden thing. I dunno where the birthdays come from, but when they made this shot I think it's pretty clear it's about Anthy.

that's because some of us actually want to discuss the show

>everyone whose opinions I don't like is from Sup Forums
Please, being registered in ohtori.nu practically since the start. Not my fault Penguindrum ended up being better.
Rephrase your query. I don't see the correlation between pointing a series more popular because of the demographic that orbits around it and the enjoyment of that series.
So?
I'm not a guy.
>I don't think dumb people understand it at all
I think it's more about disposition. A lot of people who ended up liking Utena and discussing it are mostly interesting in drama than rationale.
>hijacking a series about puberty for girls
I'm not saying you're incorrect, but there's nothing wrong with appreciating a series. And the quoted user is correct in pointing out the demographic around SKU is base
Except Chu-chu.

I'm pretty sure it's just one guy. He's very recognizable by his autistic and foreign way of writing, and always posts his awful opinions and interpretive misunderstandings in Utena threads.

Hey, just passing by, what are Disney threads? And what's the deal with people accusing others of being Sup Forumstards just because?

Who suck your prince cock. Seems that’s the only thing you care for.

hey man if you want to believe everyone who is combative and disagreeable or the other way around is the same person good for you... if anything after seen poster count it seems there are more who argue against than not lol

you people are so retarded it hurts

the birthdays come from errata and art books made by ikuhara himself

anthy is pisces: fearful, intuitive, musical, desire to escape reality

saionji is dedicated, (half the time he is cleaning the kendo floor) practical, devoted to ideals, hates attention, avoids the council, strong, and if you'll notice is very traditional, loves japanese lit, kendo

you people KEEP fucking up, KEEP completely misunderstanding their basic characters and keep complainingabout me

fuck off you dumb niggers. I bet you think saionji is evil

>Rephrase your query. I don't see the correlation between pointing a series more popular because of the demographic that orbits around it and the enjoyment of that series.

Utena is about defining society labels, pro-homosexuality, how harmful can be people's expectations, the role of men in society (This is more relevant in Japan of course) and overall a tale of female empowerment, so I have no idea why anyone with conservative ideals would like it.

Who suck your prince cock. Seems that’s the only thing you care for.

I rest my case.

>fuck off you dumb niggers. I bet you think saionji is evil
I don't think you are suppose to sympathize with someone who slaps his "girlfriend" around.

>no nipples

WHY

>I'm not a guy.
Tits or gtfo

gotta keep it PG

>anthy and utena practically have no arc

I don't disagree with your post per se, so clear my confusion. How is saying that Penguindrum is a better anime than Utena, and the latter is more popular because of the demographic that tends do discuss this series (which is invariably true, because homosexuals, degenerates, etc. are/were practically never in Penguindrum-related threads, (ex)boards or (ex)sites, correlates to someone not liking or having no interested in Utena?

Is your ego and its connection with SKU so fragile that the idea of anyone liking another series over it must invariably have conservative ideals?
Pass. I only pointed it out, because it's the go-to pointer that certain types of people use to attempt to disarm others when they feel threatened, which only detracts from the points being made. It's the same principle the other side uses when claiming XYZ is a feminist and therefore their perception must be invariably warped.

you fucked up and so instead of addressing the fact you cant even identify character traits as ikuhara spells them out, you complain again

fuck off you nigger

yes, saionji hits anthy. this is bad. is he evil? no

anthy literally stabs someone risking her life to protect her. yet you don't think she's evil

you are a fat, mentally ill feminist

>more relevant in Japan
And the series makes no references to the state of Japanese society. Utena could have taken place in any other country on Earth and nothing would have changed.

>I have no idea why anyone with conservative ideals would like it
Maybe because politics is a spectrum, rather than a black and white thing? There's more to politics than being either a SJW or a Sup Forumstard.