Dragon Ball Super

How would you fix Super Saiyan?

Should it have remained exclusive to Goku?

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youtu.be/liRtmvtq_cA?t=761
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What were the top 6 moments of the ToP?
1. KEKfla elimination
2. Goku first using UI
3. Frieza getting BTFO by Toppo
4. U6 erasure
5. JUSThan elimination
6. Literal GoD Toppo getting eliminated without beating ANYONE

Why doesn't Goku just Instant Transmission with Jiren out of the ring?

1. SS God Goku vs SS2 Caulifla x SS Berserker (controlled) Kale
2. Vegeta x Roshi vs Frost
3. Universe 7 Spirit Bomb
4. Birth of Ultra Instinct
5. Kefla potara fusion

Toppo didn't even damage Freeza kek

You need to lock-on to someone else's ki for Instant Transmission to work

friends in the stands.

Literally a hundred instances in the ToP that disprove this.

1. Goku beatdown by Jiren (before using UI)
2. Freeza beatdown by Toppo
3. Vegeta beatdown by Jiren

*raughs*

It was so jarring to see SSG Goku again after he absorbed the form back in BoG (the movie and anime)

Toei followed through with this until the creation of the DB Room. As cool as SSG looks, I kinda wish they didn't copy Toyo's SSG retcon.

/ouremperor/ is playing 4D chess while everyone else is playing checkers

>mfw they already foreshadowed ToP's ending

giv more super saiyan waifus

>Frieza getting BTFO by Toppo

OOOHOOHOOHOOHOOO


Reminder that Frieza still hasn't been shown to be eliminated. Toppo, a literal god of destruction didn't beat a single fighter.

Reminder that Toriyama expanded the end of the manga for the Kanzenban and made Vegeta said the last line of DB, which was "Someday I'll surpass you, Kakarotto, just wait." So stop this shit, Goku is and will be stronger than Vegeta

Also reminder Vegeta is still best character than Goku, who cares if he's not the strongest

I like how they shit on Nappa for being the only Sayian who can't transform.

Toppo being btfo
U4 burial
Freeza getting rekt by Toppo
UI Birth
Surfing Kamehameha
Gohan/Goku combo kamehameha

They shouldn't have made it obsolete si quickly.
SSG should have been Saiyan god and way later down the line blue should have been called SSG.

...

Future trunks was living in a post apocalyptic world where the only father figure and friend he ever had was murdered by the monsters that caused it all. He had a harder life than our Trunks and Gohan that's for sure. He had good reason to transform.

New bread found

I'd fix it by cancelling it all together, DB has too much baggage for any good stories at this point

A-Anesan I put the suit on, can I get my legos now?

>It was so jarring to see SSG Goku again after he absorbed the form back in BoG (the movie and anime)
Goku didn't completely absorb it in the movie. It's implied he got weaker when he wasn't SSG anymore, even if overall his Super Saiyan was stronger. Then later when Beerus throws his sphere of destruction Goku manages to turn SSG again on his own to absorb it.

The manga was more consistent in regard to the movie since Goku figured out how to transform into Super Saiyan God.

And don't get me started on how Vegeta was always supposed to have gone SSG at some point between the films, but the anime just took that shit out.

There is nothing to fix. Everyone in that picture have really high potential.

>Gohan witnesses Goku go Super Saiyan and escapes Namek.
>Goku does not escape and cannot be wished back (change from original script so that Namekian Dragon Balls cannot bring people back twice).
>Android Saga occurs but Trunks comes back looking for help from Vegeta and the other characters rather than Goku.
>Vegeta and Gohan both struggle to unlock Super Saiyan.
>Other characters remain relevant since the power levels are more contained.
>Arc ends with Gohan going Super Saiyan and defeating Cell with his rage.
>Goku's return during the Buu arc becomes even more incredible for the cast whom have not seen him in over a decade.
How's that for a rough script change. Obviously would need work and adjustment but I think it could work.

Canon Future Trunks already had SS as a kid. Gohan didn't need to die.

There's no reason why it should be difficult for Future Trunks to get SS, while Present Trunks had it as early as he can remember.

The manga simply skipped around parts of BoG. Like it skipped the entirety of RoF.

It wasn't because the manga was being "more consistent" in regards to SSG Goku.

If 17 survives in episode 127, might as well bury Jiren in episode 128 once Goku gets Mastered UI mode.

No need to master UI, Goku just has to think about his friends and call it a day.

>"h-he absorbed SSG in the manga too but it happened off screen!" excuse again
No

>It wasn't because the manga was being "more consistent" in regards to SSG Goku.
Giving Goku the ability to transform into SSG IS more consistent with the movie though, and therefore more consistent with what Toriyama originally wrote. Toyotaro skimmed the fuck out of the BoG arc and skipped RoF because we'd all already fucking seen those stories and we didn't need to spend another 2 or 3 months staying out of Super-original content.

You're looking way too deep into it. Goku definitely absorbed SSG.

Not only did Beerus mentioned it in the movie and anime, but Toriyama also confirmed this in an interview.

But that was back then. This is definitely a retcon.

Guys, urgent request, can you please post all of your pictures of muscular El Grande Padre?

(Forma Verdadera)

I need a 2D image of him front facing, or dead on the ground please.

It's not in the manga because BoG was fast-fowarded. It's obvious how it jumps from scene to scene

It isn't consistent when he absorbed it.

>You're looking way too deep into it. Goku definitely absorbed SSG.
>Not only did Beerus mentioned it in the movie and anime, but Toriyama also confirmed this in an interview.
I'm not saying he didn't absorb, I said he didn't absorb COMPLETELY.

Skip to 12:42 in this horrid spic-quality video of the fight. youtu.be/liRtmvtq_cA?t=761

Goku turns back into Super Saiyan God to tank Beerus' attack. Absorbing Super Saiyan God's power boosted his strength overall, but not to an equivalent level as God, which is still worth transforming into for greater strength.

Goku was always meant to keep God as a transformation.

He tried that in BoG and Trunks Arc and didnt work, for Vegeta he mostly thought of Cabba and overwhelmed Toppo.

It was ruined when Kid Trunks became a Super Saiyan for minor shit causing Vegeta to immediately lampshade it. Like even Toriyama was aware that it was garbage writing.

>Did I miss something? When was it that the transformation to the legendary warrior of the Saiyan race was reduced to a child's plaything?

This is the legendary transformation that only appeared every 1000 years? That was back when "saiyan" was an actual race with billions of people. Now there are like 10 of them and every one of them has it

>It isn't consistent when he absorbed it.
youtu.be/liRtmvtq_cA?t=761

Skip to 12:42. God wasn't "absorbed" in the sense that he couldn't use it anymore you dumbass.

When did this "Kale has assburgers" meme started?

>anons having actual discussion
Nice!

The Godku retcon was necessary anyway because otherwise base Goku/SS Goku would have been god tier already

Ever since she showed up.

Just don't give it to Goten or Kid Trunks, and have Gohan become a SSJ/2 under different circumstances than 16 dying when he didn't even know the guy. Even if that change is giving them a chance to bond as Gohans only real friend

Goku's and Vegeta's transformations were actually a sight to behold and was actually a dignifying plot device given the emotional hurdle they had to run into to get the transformation. Their respective children getting it is just asspulls, i get they have massive potential but its clearly stated Gohan has the most potential and his transformation was way more meaningful and it took him more work to get it to happen.

Cabba's transformation was lackluster but we had good reasoning behhind it. His entire world was in peril, in his mind, and he felt utterly powerless to stop it from happening and him being a warrior most of his adult(?) life to the point hhis GoD recruits him for a multiuniversal tournament explains the potential being there.

Caulifla and Kale are just Goten and Trunks all over again, i get they have potential but it feels that it was just written in for the sole purpose of not making them completely useless in the ToP. No character development, except maybe Kale which is on point with the overall stupidity of Broly. SS has no validity in the series. They even bumped Gohan to God status by completely bypassing Sayian transformations.

Goku is a fucking pathetic character and this latest episode affirms that belief. Vegeta is the hidden star of Super.

if beerus never came to earth where would he find his top 10? he is the worst GoD after all

I thought it was because they decided to introduce a planet of generally good saiyans.

It's a fucking retcon

kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/

> "Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?"

> Toriyama: I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out.

So are these spoilers real? They came from 2ch and were translated on r/dbz


127: The Approaching Wall! The Final Barrier of Hope!
>Android 17 desperately tries to protect Vegeta and Goku against Jiren's biggest attack yet! The body of the two Saiyans are broken and battered but Vegeta's hand begins to move...

128: A Broken Promise? Vegeta's Limit Breaking Spirit!
>Goku is down and it falls to Vegeta to hold Jiren off for 3 minutes. Vegeta is on his last legs and all hope seems lost, but then something strange begins to happen to his body...

129: Rebirth of the Saiyan Prince! The Unstoppable Force of Jiren!
>Ultra Instinct Vegeta is born! Against Jiren, the two seem to be equals! But Vegeta's body is struggling under the weight of Ultra Instinct and Jiren's tremendous energy...

130: Limit Breaker and Survivor! An Undying Bond Between Rivals!
>A single minute remains and Goku re-emerges from the rubble! In a last ditch effort to save Universe 7, Goku donates all his remaining energy to Vegeta and admits he is number one.

131: Hero of the Multiverse! The Ultimate Wish Shall Be Granted!
>In his final attack against Jiren, Vegeta surpasses and overpowers the monster of Universe 11! With that final attack, Universe 7 is saved and now it is time for the wish!

he would have to come to earth, force the jobbers to join him (that is if Golden Frieza didnt already merk Goku)

What would Goku be doing for over a decade? Your story sounds good though. They impact of goku coming back some how would have been amazing. Though many stories that cut out their MC tend to lose interest in a lot of people. Its a really risky decision. You'd understand this if you watched Stargate where Daniel living just left a huge gap in the season and it felt all off. The same when Colonel O'Neils character resigned and the last 2 seasons felt extremely lacking just because the characters tend to carry a lot of the story.

kek

>thinking U7 will ACTUALLY beat Jiren

Other World

lets say freeza took out the entire earth, beerus is boned. he would only have freeza who could put up a fight

to be fair the ToP wouldnt have happened had goku stfu or been erased

Krillin in stands

Reminder that Toriyama expanded the end of the manga for the Kanzenban and made Gohan said the last line of DB, which was "Someday I'll surpass you, father, just wait." So stop this shit, Goku is and will be stronger than Gohan

Also reminder Gohan is still best character than Goku, who cares if he's not the strongest

...

It was unlikely but plausible up to the end of 129, try harder next time

Have the superior abuelo instead

Keep this bejetafag delusion going.
Pride is always greatest before the fall

Yeah, don't forget that the volume version added an extra page where Goku vaguely remembers Beerus returning to tell him he almost forgot to tell Goku about how he was the 2nd strongest person he had faced, since that line comes up in the U6 arc but Toyotaro skipped it in the abridged retelling of BoGs from the Super manga.

...

128 broken promise/jiren attacks
129 limit breaker x survivor
130 the wish/Goku's desperation
131 see ya nigga

What about raditz, turtles and every other Saiyan that can't transform?

Legit question.
How can U7 be the second-weakest when it's already clearly established that they beat U6?
>Toei in charge of continuity

>vegetafags wet dream

Got anymore? Sauce?

I could see this, ties in with the freeza surviving stuff and 131 could be the party episode

>Vegeta has remained roughly on Goku's level throughout Super
>is an infinitely better person than Goku
>is an infinitely better family man than Goku

Super Goku has no redeeming qualities. What was Toriyama's goal with his character? From what I gather it's not natural character writing as much as its Toriyama's attempt to differentiate him from Superman and counteract Toei's previous portrayal that he saw as too heroic. Problem is that he doesn't act like a person anymore and has no character traits beyond wanting to fight. Vegeta, as a saiyan, has that but he also has a bunch of other motivations.

Not in the game, that's the context he means, Nappa is the only saiyan in the roster who never got super saiyan (Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, both Trunks and Goten)

As a Goku fan, super really ruined him. They turned him from a Hero who loves a challenge to a crazy person that doesn't care about his friends and family.

...

Someone posted it in the last thread along with this and said it was from /h/

I like how Gotenks tried to teach it to Nappa but all he did was scream. Really show how easy it was for him.

First of all you're stupid for putting any effort into thinking about DBZ

And the better team doesn't always win in competitions. It's just the nature of sports and games in general

>not just being a buufag and watch as your character does nothing yet not job much

It's incredible how people still fall for it

Fuck you none of you understand why goku si great in dbs, hes the best character and vegeta is a trash monster

Yeah, it definitely would be a risk. I figured they could actually show Goku going on some adventures in other world. Similar to the tournament in the anime.

They aren't alive in FighterZ. Only Nappa was.

what does robo pussy feel like?

They aren't reliable because he either retcons or forgets stuff

Doesn't change the fact that this is how it was supposed to be in the beginning

1. First 20 seconds of Jiren vs Goku UI
2. Kefla elimination
3. Toppo breaking the arena
4. Veggie final flash vs jiren
5. U9 erasure

You don't really like Goku face it. They made him heartless in super.

Toriyama interviews really aren't that reliable though. Some stuff remains consistent, but many answers to similar questions vary a lot through the years.

Now, when he answered that question, he was obviously thinking like that, but he clearly uses the actual final material as resource when needing to remember past events, not these standalone statements and interviews. So, it's not surprising that the actual movie (where Goku still turns into a God even after absorbing the power) ended up taking priority over Toriyama's own initial statement.

>Vegeta and Goku will outlast Jiren and win
>The Two Zenos can't decide who gets the wish
>Present Zeno wants Goku to have the wish
>Future Zeno wants Vegeta to have the wish
>Vegeta and Goku decide to fight for the wish
>The winner of their fight will be left ambiguous but all the inhabitants of the wiped out universes will return

SCREENCAP THIS.

>those proportions
Fucking christ.

Y-you d-did it B-Begita san..! T-T-Toppo sama is g-gone..! I was about to get serious! what a shame..!

dumb enough to think Vegeta's blue form could ever add up to Goku's UI... sorry vegeta fans

>people actually think the jobber will win

Kale is for inmediate insemination.

dont think hes forgotten about you, lizardboi

do more toppo posting, it's my favourite

Why does UI look so fucking retarded

See again
There's literally NOTHING in the manga series suggesting Goku became more powerful after the ritual. Nothing, you just think it happened because you are thinking on the original product (BoG). Just stop trying.

I believed Jiren would win until the recent episode.
Why would Toei change Jiren into an asshole suddenly, if they didn't want people to see him as a villain and thus root for Goku? Then, why would they do that, if Goku wasn't going to win in the end?