Is Puella Magi Madoka Magica a brilliant deconstruction of the magical girl genre the same way Neon Genesis Evangelion...

Is Puella Magi Madoka Magica a brilliant deconstruction of the magical girl genre the same way Neon Genesis Evangelion deconstructed the mecha genre?

No because it's a lot more subversive than Evangelion. Evangelion still has the premise of being a mecha show, it just so happens that there's a lot of stuff happening in the background that comes to a head in a crazy ending. Madoka is a show that is examining the premise of the entire magical girl genre, because it's a story about a girl making the decision to become a magical girl instead of a story about being a magical girl.

No it's about Christianity

Which one? Both?

Germanic Christianity & Literature to be more specific

Madoka, sure, but what'd Eva have to do with German stuff? Asuka aside.

Oh wait, I was just talking about Madoka

...

>examining the premise of the entire magical girl genre

What is the premise?

It's not.
Many magical girl shows have had dark themes before.

NEITHER OF THEM ARE DECONSTRUCTIONS GOD DAMMIT

Madoka is a story about causality. It's a fucking terrifying story once you realize that.

I don't think that "deconstruction" is the right word because when you break it down it's still the basic "magical girl" premise and plot: girl receives "magical" powers in order to fight evil/do good deeds, with a clear separation between the magical and mundane forms (kinda like how western superheroes are supposed to hide their identities). If anything it's more of an examination of the various themes of the magical girl genre, like what exactly the typical magical girl mascot character might be trying to accomplish by giving magic to young girls and what kind of effect such a transformation may have on a person's daily life.

>kinda like how western superheroes are supposed to hide their identities

Man, wouldn't it be neat if in season 3 of Madoka Gen focuses on, say, a superhero world?

>Madoka, I'd like to go on a witch-hunt too!

#metoo

How is Madoka a deconstruction? Suffering and tragedy have always been key parts of the magical girl genre.

Continuing on, I believe that the reason why people are so quick to call Madoka a "deconstruction" is because it subverts a lot of the typical tropes of the classic magical girl team shows; for example, while said shows typically have girls working in a team toward a common goal with themes of friendship and getting over differences, the magical girls in Madoka's world are all in competition over limited resources, which actively discourages cooperation. Mami, for example, is seen as an anomaly for trying to get people to work together and her compassion is ultimately what gets her killed. Also, while Madoka is certainly not the only anime with tension between the supernatural and mundane life of a magical girl, a lot of more optimistic shows generally show a girl's experience as a magical girl helping them to develop better in the real world, and vice versa, whereas in Madoka becoming a magical girl is portrayed as an irreversible alienation from your mundane life.

Well the premise of the magical girl genre is that the main character is a magical girl. Would be pretty hard to call something a magical girl show if it didn't have that. Madoka is a story about the decision to become a magical girl, so it's an examination of that premise.

They call it deconstruction because they haven't watched any other magical girl anime.

I'd say that isn't the premise though. The premise is that the girl CAN receive magical powers and deliberates on it for eleven episodes.

'Deconstruction' in the vernacular is short-hand for trope subversion, even if that's not the actual meaning of the term.

What tropes does Madoka subvert?

>Magical girls never die
>Team work is magic
>Secret identity is cool

that's not the important thing, the important thing is that it's a masterpiece

>Magical girls never die
Magical girls die in fucking Sailor Moon

I'm 4 episodes in and I don't understand why.

It's fanart sure deconstructed my penis, if you catch my drift.

Magical girls die in other shows before and after Madoka, though. Again, Madoka is not the first "dark" mahou shoujo by any means. I actually agree on the second point as the mechanics of magical girls in Madoka (at least before Madokami changes shit) actively discourages cooperation. That's not to say that there aren't uncooperative or selfish magical girls in other shows (that's basically half of the premise of the "dark magical girl" trope) but the actual system of Madoka makes it directly counterintuitive to work together.

>Mascot is evil
>being a magical girl is not good
>soul gem

>mascot is evil
Kyubey is a dick but the incubators have the greater good of the universe in mind

Just because it happens in other shows too doesn't mean it's not a subversion. Trope: magical girls never die. Subversion: magical girl dies. That's all there is to it.

I wouldn't call that a trope though.

Well there's no accounting for taste, but the construction and structure of the show is masterful. There's so many little details and clever scenes and bits of composition. It's super fast-paced, important things happen in every episode that build to the central theme, and it's all very deliberate.

Yes.

It's a poorly written mess that imo gets worse the more anime I watch.

Call it a cliche then.

It's extremely well-written and tight. It's still my favorite show and that only gets more impressive with time.

It does though. Homura is the main character.

Excellent visual and audio design and a well-told story without any filler. Story is dark but manages not to go into "edgy" territory (closest it gets is Mami losing her head) like some other certain mahou shoujo that have gone down that route (looking at you Genei). Also Homura is fucking based but you don't learn exactly why until like ten episodes in.

I don't think it's even a cliche, I think that you're just conflating magical girl shows with children's shows in general. Fucking Minky Momo got hit by truck-kun and died.

She's not, it's Madoka. The entire story is about things happening around Madoka that she's learning from and it centers around her making the decision to become a magical girl.

Is Homura a communist?

Commies hate fags

Anyone that uses the terms "deconstruction" or "subversion" have never actually watched magical girl anime or read magical girl manga.
All of these so called "deconstructions" and "subversions" are really common, everyday occurrences in the magical girl genre.
The magical girl genre really hit its peak in the 70's and 80's, which means most of the newfags have zero exposure to it- they literally think the magical girl genre began with Sailor Moon in the 90's.
So these arrogant but ignorant monglers armchair out these random phrases to overcompensate for an overwhelming lack of actual knowledge of the genre.

If at any time you encounter these buzzwords, simply filter them out and move on.

>better yet, don't watch magical girl animes at all, they're almost all garbage

Since most of the ones in the 70's through 90's were basically just vehicles for toy merchandising, you're not wrong.

Nigger most magical girl shows are idealistic by virtue of being marketed to 7-year-old girls. Minky Momo got TRUCKED because a toy company pulled funding (it was a truck carrying toys that hit her. There's also a distinct difference between shows starring singular magical girls and shows starring a "team" of magical girls (who also use their powers for combat instead of just solving everyday problems). I don't think that there's many shows like the latter before Sailor Moon which certainly popularized the idea by basically taking elements from super sentai.

Meanwhile, Nanoha was probably the first magical girl show explicitly aimed at males (Cutie Honey technically was the first but it wasn't conceived as a magical girl show) and nowadays magical girl shows actually aimed at little girls are rare outside of Precure

Neither are deconstructions.

Was the person who made this mentally ill?

Do I look like I speak commie? Who knows what the fuck it says

>Madoka is no different than any other magical girl show lol it's jus dark
I can't believe I fell for this meme.

I don't love it because its particularly dark, I love it because it does what it does very well. I still tear up when I watch pic related

ANyone who uses the word 'deconstruction' for either of those shows should be permabanned.

>show does something interesting or original
>normalfags call it a deconstruction of its genre because it's different

I mean any show has deconstruction if you look hard enough. Hell even in Sailor Moon they questioned why they’d been reborn if they were just going to die again(sorry for the live action cap but it was brought up a lot more here).

>I mean any show has deconstruction if you look hard enough
and this is exactly why it's a useless label

So basically it's just another magical girl show with some better-than-average writing. Okay.

And great direction, and great music, and great visuals, great characters that led to tons of fan works, a great setting that captured the imagination and inspired a pen-and-paper game, and it was anime original to boot.

It's in the same vein as I suspect NGE as being a relatively short and palatable entry into a genre normally populated by insular weirdos. In the same way as NGE, it gets lauded as a deconstruction of a genre by an audience that doesn't care to watch anything in said genre whose only experience is the barest surface of bad dubs and channel surfing.

No one cares to watch the 100-200 episode long anime which treads most, all, or more of the ground Madoka did except people already into magical girls. A single cour where everything is condensed is easier for the average viewer. Throw in some big names for a wider audience of anime viewers along with good production values all around, and you've got an anime that

>deconstructs the genre

I mean an episodic show that runs forever is eventually going to do everything, yes.

Evangelion is a deconstruction on all of anime

hot take
it's really a critique on manchildren

>Evangelion is a deconstruction of all anime... fans.

3 pairs speaks truth.

>great characters
Yeah, no.
There's only one well-written character.

i really hate this meme

The characters are all great and memorable, which is one of the primary contributors as to why they took off the way they did with fan stuff. The show does a great job of showing their motivations and how they change.

Even Mami, who obviously dies very early on as a mentor character, still has a good amount of depth to her characterization and really captured people's hearts. I love that shot of the dishes left in the sink when Madoka goes back to her apartment.

when dude hooked up with her best friend it made me angry, literally sold her soul for him but hey its not like he owed her anything

>Madoka
Bland and boring

>Mami
>WE SHOULD ALL JUST DIE

>Kyouko
>dies for someone she just met and fought with a lot

>Homura
Literally the worst character after that trash movie.

oh

The guy's a kind of a dick for not talking to Sayaka, but Sayaka essentially conceded Kyousuke to Hitomi by not doing anything.

I mean maybe if Sayaka wasn't a betamax and told violinfag her feelings maybe things would've gone better. She was literally a nice guy.

These are not very potent criticisms

Is she really gay?

At the very least Madokasexual.

What does she see in her?

Kindness, strength, salvation, and purpose.

A kindness so all-encompassing it changed the universe.

In the magical realm of pop culture geeks, deconstruct = throw some edgy stuff in a genre usually meant for kids in order for aforementioned geeks to enjoy it without shame.

The first person to be sort of nice to her after she got out of the hospital.
Yes, a shallow girl crush got the universe rewritten.

Homura is a good girl who deserves love and eternal salvation.

cute pucci

Nah, Homu's just Madobian.
The Embodiment of Hope and Courage. A very kind meguca with strong will and resolve that can be brave enough to make tough decisions and get shit done.

Most of animes are basically just vehicles for merchandising.

But by the end the magical girls dreams and wishes come true? Is that not the basis for a true magical girl show?