Why are consistently manly protagonists so rare?

Why are consistently manly protagonists so rare?


Cool protag thread.

They were common for a long time, then they fell out of fashion and became niche.

Because most of them are ass.

I prefer goofy ones like bobobo

because they're a little boy's interpretation of what manly is as opposed to actually manly

When will manime make a come back?

Anime went from idolizing adults to idolizing awkward, socially stunted teenagers.

This response reeks of soy.

After watching HnK on vhs as a kid i always practiced to hit the pressure points of my only retarded friend and he screamed. Rate.

yours reeks of mental immaturity. kenshiro is not an inspiration and an image of a family man bringing food on the table and being a role model for his children, or a man of community. He is an image for an infant to smash action figures against each other.

yea dude wageslaving is totally more heroic than saving multiple peoples lives

Because it hyper masculine protagonists were over used a few decades ago. I'm guessing most people who complain about the lack of them haven't even seen all the ones that were made from that time period.

You can be a pushover and stil provide for your family or an asshole and still be manly.

>tfw Satan wants you to work your ass off to provide for a woman who's statistically likely to divorce you and get half your shit

t. infant

t. lanky cuck

Honestly because it's the 'current era' and manliness is out of fashion except as an out-there entertainment like shitty super hero movies that aren't supposed to be based in any reality. Many anime now are self insert based or else 'I want to relate' shit instead of telling a story without those things, so it follows that MCs need to be as meek and unmanly as most people are. At least in previous decades boys and men were openly encouraged to be traditionally manly and actually aspired to be in some cases.

America stopped having manly hollywood
protagonists that inspire nips. Buy all the John Wick copies you can to change this.

>being a man means being a wageslave
>being masculine means being a beefcake
Someone please post some FKMT

I think he means that in the sense that being a brute is not tantamount to being a manly man. I never watched HnK but the general distinguishing feature that underlies most of these "manly" heroes as opposed to their even more loutish and muscular antagonists is in their strength of character, see Guts or Goku as an example, these traditionally manly heroes are physically imposing fighters that regularly go against even more dangerous, stronger and imposing foes, but their real strength is in fact shown as their ability to surmount seemingly impossible odds and hellish situations through extraordinary willpower and hard work, growing always stronger in the process. The fighting thing is often the backdrop of these kinds of stories, both in western and eastern traditions, because it's an easy to conceptualize, empathize and display kind of conflict where a "hero" can be shown to embody these characteristics that are so conductive and important to personal development in a way everyone can understand and learn from.

That being said, wageslaving is an abomination, but there is a difference between undertaking unpleasant tasks necessary to move your life forward and just deciding to stagnate as a wageslave.

I got you. I'm having a bit of fun but I agree with you.

I would agree with you if you hadn't mentioned Goku. He's fits that archetype only in american dub.

Manly protagonists require manly settings. Many series take place in societies with younger individuals that lack the firmness and maturity necessary to be seen as a full-on role model, likely due to serving as a self-insert/relatable character instead, often to serve as a point of reference for when they grow older and more experienced. It would be impossible to have a meek, less emotionally stable protagonist fight in HnK's war torn world.

Define "manly" Kenshiro is surprisingly emotional and cries a lot in the series. I was very surprised by this the first time I watched/read.

>incel /r9k/bot talks about manliness
>starts frothing at the mouth when actual traditional virtues of manliness are brought up
>cries cuck
poetry

Never watched the american dub, but I was under the impression he was a portrayed as a more moralistic character, where in the japanese version he really doesn't give a fuck about traditional notions of morality.

I think he embodies it quite well in the japanese version though. Sure he asspulls powerups like it's nothing, but he regularly gets his ass handed back to him (which is certainly a painful experience, and anyone that has practiced martial arts before knows getting beat can raise all sorts of negative feelings you have to work through to improve) and he trains like a madman even when there is no antagonist in sight. He is so true to himself that he jumps against enemies he can't beat like Vegeta in the beginning, perfect Cell and Buu simply for the satisfaction of the challenge and through determination, courage, self mastery, will power and hard work he often comes out on top (or at least comes out much stronger than he was before).

Providing in and of itself isn't manliness. Hell, providing in the wrong circumstances is what cuckoldry actually is.

Goku is a fighting genious and getting stronger is the purpose of his life, but Toriyama never meant him to be your usual paradigm of virtue hero. Of couse he's a good guy who'd help the innocents given the chance, but he never embraced that as his duty nor he does have that much of a moral compass, he's a simple man. Goku let go or was wiling to let go every and each one of his mass murderers foes in the hope they could offer him the thrill of a good fight gain. Case in point, Toriyama at one point complained Toei was making Goku too much of an hero, the american dub with that completely made up drivel when he goes ss on Namek was just the icing on the cake.

This. Although people are taking that way too far as if Goku was completely amoral, which he isn't. He's no Superman but he doesn't want to kill and hates murderers like Freeza.

Well yes, as usual the general opinion tends to swing between extremes in cases like this. Truth is Goku is just a good hearted person with an unstoppable lust for fights. But he does gets too much shit these days, for example Goku was mortified when he finally realized Gohan don't like to fight as he was in good faith, once he undestood he never bothered him again. He's the very definition of pure in this sense.

I'm gonna be the only real one here and say it is a side-effect of our increasingly un-masculine culture.

That's pretty much what everyone has been saying. That's evident to anyone who has read both some old and contemporary manga or any media for that mater.

Part of the problem is that real masculinity (Like Kenshiro) isn't devoid of emotion, but largely in western cultures the myth is perpetuated that having emotion is weakness.

It is the same in every culture though: Everyone who clamors on about masculinity as if it and caring/having emotions are mutually exclusive is always done by the arrogant and untested masses.

So, the equally uninformed pussies of the world react by emasculating things because they are also misinformed and bought into the "Masculinity = no feelings" garbage.

Beyond that I blame fucking busy body soccer moms and religious nuts for wanting "safe spaces" and "Good christian values".

Also Japan is low birth rate for a reason, and lack of manliness is only a small part of it. They keep their workforce docile as shit so they can milk them as salary people and treat them like shit.

Why do you think Isekai is so big now?

Because the 80's are over. Stop being nostalgic for an era you never lived through.

Reading pic related should be compulsory for anyone who wants to talk about manliness.

But that's my point, he eschews the traditional western virtue of morality derived from judeo-christian tradition for his personal system of values. Goku is pretty much a Nietzschean man.

That's pretty much in line with what I brought up in it shows he's not some robot that does not feel the weight and wear of the world. I never watched HnK because I don't really find any fun in characters like Alucard from Helsing that are just better than everyone else from the get go, but maybe I should reconsider.

Young men will always seek out masculine role models, faggot.

That's what fathers and other men in the real world are for. Goku, Kenshiro and other characters didn't stop you losers from being failures.

What position are you in to be shit talking the value of fiction on Sup Forums, you little bitch?

>Hellsing
Alucard isn't a human, but a monster. As such he's allowed to do thing humans can't and prevented to do others, that's one of the plot points. Not really a good example to bring into this discussion if you ask me. Hellsing is pretty fun though, I love Hirano's campy edge.

You're the one saying how crucial this is, yet it clearly hasn't done anything for you. You're just a baby trying to act tough.

Stopping people from being, failures was never the purpose of any work of fiction with a message, they just show you this thing exist, you're free to find something valuable in that or just discard it.

Because they were overused as shit.

Tell that to the other faggot here who thinks otherwise.

I kind of feel there will be a lot of crossboarders from /r9k/ ITT

You sure seem bitter as fuck that other people are clearly hungry for macho, in shape protagonists. Are you a flabby sack of shit or something?

>They were common for a long time
I miss 80s.

Now you're just being petty. Sorry friend, you're the one being a bitch here about not being catered to. Spinning it around to protect your ego isn't going to change things.

they're not, you just aren't widely read enough.

Boys like seeing male heroes doing male hero things, just like they always have. You're the one trying to chalk masculine heroes off to some 80s fad when Beowulf and The Odyssey are precisely that sort of thing.

Masculine, badass heroes are as old as storytelling itself.

>implying Arnold wasn't peak of manliness

le borninthewronggeneration

Sup Forums please, it fucking hurts.

We live in an era where asking a girl out on a date can be considered sexual harassment, m8. Feminists are bitter as fuck and have a lot of power and it makes for shitty entertainment if you happen to have XY chromosomes.

You seem so fucking bothered by the fact that guys like to watch macho shit.

>We live in an era where asking a girl out on a date can be considered sexual harassment, m8. Feminists are bitter as fuck and have a lot of power and it makes for shitty entertainment if you happen to have XY chromosomes.
Sucks to be an Amerilard. The rest of the world doesn't have this issue, yet ;_;.

>Boys like seeing male heroes doing male hero things
And they still do. We still get male heroes doing male hero things in media. You guys are just incredibly picky and petty about it because you clearly have a bias toward a specific type. But it's as says, a bunch of self-righteous casuals.

No that would be someone who actually took up a noble profession instead of simply being a world-class athlete who achieved his many lofty aspirations.

And no, GOVANA OF CALEFOURNEA doesn't count as noble profession. He was manly, but not the peak.

Kenshiro represents responsibility
as in anyone who can make the world a better place should do so, and that no real man stands while an injustice takes place
>muh family man
masculinity takes more forms than being a family man and Kenshiro is a man of the community since all he does is liberate entire communities

>Because the 80's are over

>We still get male heroes doing male hero things in media.
Yeah, boys can go watch TLJ where every good guy ends up being one-upped by a woman who knows better than they do.

>We live in an era where asking a girl out on a date can be considered sexual harassment, m8. Feminists are bitter as fuck and have a lot of power and it makes for shitty entertainment if you happen to have XY chromosomes.

dunno about this i do not live in USA
also i'm not bothered by it, men enjoy watching whatever you want. This sense of fake nostalgia among young people is what bothers me. It literally exists in every nation. People want to believe everything was better in a time they didn't live in.

So are beta males now

The 'rose-tinted glasses' bullshit is also used to dismiss very real social changes by faggots who want to pretend like their current conditions have always been the norm. And 'nostalgia' isn't really the right term for it, exactly. But anyone can go back and watch a movie from the 80s today and notice clear differences in the way men are portrayed compared to movies today. They can also prefer the way the 80s handled it without being 'fake'.

You just seem really fucking upset that anyone could ever prefer societal attitudes from the past over now and are hellbent on claiming it's not legitimate.

Nah, i just miss manly action heroes from 80s like Arnold or Stallone

Yup, so their time too will eventually be over when ppl get tired of them

Asians are know worshipping sissy boys.

The Coolest

...

>simply being a world-class athlete who achieved his many lofty aspirations
Well you still have to respect for doing all that shit

>tfw the OP changed to silent survivor
Shit was going down now

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>You guys are just incredibly picky and petty about it because you clearly have a bias toward a specific type
Is there something wrong with this? I like seeing masculinity in my media and not beta faggots

K-On did nothing wrong

I'm not even a fan of him but dismissing a man what archieved that much in his life makes you look kinda petty.

putting muh in front of something doesn't change anything. If you want the best indication of a man's worth you need to see how his children are turning out

Fucking moe shits. Sup Forums is only entertaining when new content for One piece comes out and maybe dbs

But when will that be? It already have been over decade now

Once this phase is over user. Well...that or we will enter the phase of females who do all shit. In 20 years weebs will than ask why there are so few male MCs doing shit.

Some men can't have children. You can't tell me there are men whose masculinity you would reject on the basis of being unable to procreate
Some men had children and lost them to things like disease, or accidents
Masculinity is much more than children. Honor, responsibility, self-respect, level headedness, putting rational thought over emotions, and reliability all encompass masculinity as well.

I find it interesting that in general people who blame society for their lack of "manliness" fail to see that by
it's definition it's not something that can be instilled (as to me it has an individualistic need to improve yourself and rely on yourself fundamentaly), rather must be developed by oneself
through interaction with the world. Saying society is to blame for your own perceived lack of qualities associated with being a man is like saying you earn things if they're simply given to you, a total absurd.

That being said, the cultural trend of trying to convice people to aspire to comfort and relinquish control is hundreds (if not thousands) of years old and it's not some kind of attack on men, rather it's just that the human needs to face adversity,
challenge yourself, think independently, challenge moral and social values currently en vogue, etc are traditionally associated with manhood since women were kept down and society treated them like subhumans (in fact
associating with them powerful human characteristics like emotions, because people accepting they're complex and have socially disruptive dreams and desires and are not just stiff-upper-lipped cogs in society is dangerous to the
status quo). The manliest god in fucking greek mithology was fucking Athena, she was the goddess of War, Intelligence and crafting.

There has been panic about "moral decay", current generations being feeble and weak and traditional manly virtues waning since the ancient greeks, thousands of years ago. Young men have in general have always been insecure about their masculinity
and lashed out on society until they got they matured a bit and developed a good sense of self criticism and older men always looked down on younger generations denying they were the same when they were young out of a misguided
sense of pride and self worth.

Its a process user. They didnt suddenly turn to the current level of beta-ness. They slowly became that.
Once we reach the lowest point it will be time for gay shit.
Than once gay shit went over we will go to females, start with weak girls seeking "strong-ness" to femdom-fantasy heavens, and girls who are purrffect!

Once all that is over we will go back to good old james bond/rambo characters.

cont


People crave purposeful pain, the pain that creates growth, others can't learn or grow in your stead, and living in modern society you've been giving a myriad of choices on how to develop (and you still have), if you are unsatisfied with
what you've done reexamine your life (hey Socrates!) and change, but you must do it yourself, and it hurts, but ina good way, what you shouldnn't do is whine that society gave you too many choices and you'd have liked to be forced
to do things like a slave, because not only you'd miss on the personal growth that comes from deciding to do what you know you actually want and fighting to do it, you'd also be handing your life over, which directly contradicts
the desire to become a more developed individual.

One last observation, the japanese have really been pushing hard on these unassertive losers type though, but that's more their culture imploding than any kind of weird nebulous conspiracy.

Sorry for screwy formatting.

>If you want the best indication of a man's worth you need to see how his children are turning out

History is full of great men who have had chidren which have turned out to be complete degenerates and/or no where near come close to matching what their parents achieved. This does not mean you can denounce the father or his accomplishments.

Also, how many great men have existed who have not had any chldren? Do you disregard their accomplishments as well?

You have some really childish notions of what how to judge another person and most likely are also someone who would erroneously blame much of the fault of how a child turns out or crimes commited on the parents shoulders ignoring the autonomous nature of man, the influences of society, and various other myriad factors which shape a human throughout their life.

> putting rational thought over emotions
Not the same user but im disagreeing here. More often than not the type of masculinity people talk about are directed towards Kenshiro-like chars, they are clearly more emotional than anything else.
I think you talk about the chars from the 70s who are more like James Bond than Rambo/etc.

I think people that say these thing have never actually asked anyone out.

There's nothing manly about being a meek little bitch and not working to change society to better reflect the values you want to see it reflect, which is all you have to offer anyone with your little spiel. No one's saying you can't better yourself. They're saying they want to see masculine characters promoting masculine virtues in the media more often.

Go be a scared little rodent who's too timid to want to affect the world on your own.

I hope you are right user.

>putting rational thought over emotions
rational thought has always been a meme

Or we've just been paying attention to the #MeToo bullshit that's all over the news these days, where a woman accuses a man of sexual harassment because she said yes but really meant no.

When I say emotion I mean letting them control you and lead you down a self destructive path.
Kenshiro gets angry, he gets sad. But those are just human things.
Lashing out at people for the slightest indignation, jumping at any provocation,and being unable to keep your cool.

>and an image of a family man bringing food on the table

You seem to forget Kenshiro lives in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where farmers and subsistence level communities are common and regularly raided for their produce and livestock. Being able to defend his community, stand for the weak, and liberate the oppressed is entirely manly and praiseworthy considering his circumstances.

We'll see in 30 years.

Calm down, I'm just having a conversation about a topic in a korean puppetshow board on my free time. It was an attempt to tell people that this whole war on manhood thing is something people have wrongly fantasized about for a really long time and it's got nothing to do with feminists or some weird cabal or whatever that's somehow the reason why young men are insecure and can't get laid, rather it's a long standing social phenomenon to make people docile and serve the status quo.

>having a proper discussion
>on Sup Forums

There is an attack on men though
manspreading, pretending like men and women are same, saying shit like "Toxic Masculinity"etc..

fucking simple feminine world-class athletes, am I right?

>manspreading
Sure.

>pretending like men and women are same
Never heard that. What I have heard espoused by rational people is the belief that each person should be judged individually by their own capabilities and merits rather than by race, nationality or gender.

>"Toxic Masculinity"
Ok, this does annoy me a bit, but funnily enough, by that logic women have been under much more severe attack what with that whole being a subservient housewife with no control of your own life thing we had going for a few thousand years and that still lingers on.

where did wild delinquent protagonists go

He looks like a fucking alien. If you want this to be the norm you should kill yourself.

t. soy twink