A perfect (and probably our only) opportunity to make GT relevant to the canon and they fucked it up...

A perfect (and probably our only) opportunity to make GT relevant to the canon and they fucked it up. Why didn't they make the GT universe one of the twelve in Super?

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After seeing how Super turned out, I don't think being 'canon' is a compliment.

I'd rather stick by non-canon and at least enjoy the product, than take pride in canon.

Because GT took place in its own multiverse like the blacked arc.

Because believe it or not, a lot more people didnt like GT nor did AT actually make it.

GT happened in one of those 3 universes that don't fight in the tournament, their gods are so powerful they don't give a shit and haven't shown up there

>people didnt like GT
maybe if you keep saying it, it'll come true

It's still getting merch and Toei still animates GT characters on a monthly basis in DB Heroes

How would that even work out? Would GT Goku participate in the tournament? We already had a Goku villain last arc. Would the GT universe be ahead in the timeline? GT is after the end of Z, and the main universe isn't there yet.
Even though I don't care much about GT, it would have been better to see GT characters than say, the furry universe, but would also be strange.

People above 23 years old didn't like GT.

Because it wouldn't make sense.

There are 12 separate universes, each with their own civilizations and races. There was never going to be a Dragon Team (Goku, Vegeta, etc.) in any other universe.

And the canon already established time travel and alternate timelines, so GT could be chalked up as one of those alternate timelines.

As GT was medium at best the SSJ4 was amazing. It was fitting so well with their tail as Sayians. But no let Goku assume all colors of the rainbow.

Seeing how Aya Matsui made better Dragon Ball (GT) than Toriyama (Super) himself, I doubt that that would be good idea. Let them end this trainwreck with Super and leave GT in peace, this way you are left with MANGA CANON (DB, DBZ and SUPER) and ANIME CANON (DB, DBZ, GT) and can choose which one deserves title of ''canon''

>Enjoying GT
I can't genuinely tell

It can't be nostalgia, can it? It would mean you're young as fuck, probably underage
But, if it's not nostalgia, then what?
You just slowly died inside between the time they made GT and Super?
You were actually expecting a good quality product for a mature audience instead of a mindless cashgrab (aimed at children) than runs on nostalgia?
You were expecting something to live up to Z instead of a big commercial to future videogames and figures, that you're supposed to enjoy with your childhood friends?

Or maybe, can it just be impressively shit tastes?

Baby Vegeta > Hit > Cell > Freezer > Majin Buu> Tao Pai Pai > Piccolo > shit > Android 18/17 > Dragons > Zamasu > Shit I forgot to mention > Jiren

Rate

So Super would be a sequel to Kai, and GT a sequel to Z.
Nah, I say Z doesn't deserve that at all

Also GT has its own canon, which includes The Path to Power and Goku Gaiden.

Brain damage / 10

everything after the first GT arc should be deleted

Jiren wouldn't be so bad if toei didn't fuck it up to make him an antagonist at all costs. Not bad, but piccolo should be between freezer and majin.

I liked the cast. It focused more on character interaction than people give it credit for.

People constantly shout that "Uub was useless", but he helped more than Tien or Krillin during the ToP for example (by paralyzing Oozaru Baby from the inside, giving Goku time to recover)

Power-ups also didn't come outta nowhere, at least they tried explaining stuff. When Goku was tired, he didn't recover on his own in 5 seconds.

But details go unnoticed in favor of more mindless hate.

SLIDESHOW

>It focused more on character interaction than people give it credit for
It's true, but it focused on the wrong characters.
>kid Goku that's actually adult Goku
>grown up brat trunks that's somehow just an uncool version of future trunks
>pedobait Burma/chichi annoying hybrid
>Goten not showing up despite having a fresh personality to work with

>balding mr Satan having more screentime than Vegeta, now a moustached background clone of himself with an out of character villain revival arc
I'd even say Super filler episodes have better/more character interation than GT. At least it's what I wanted to see, Z characters living their life in peaceful times

>live up to Z
>calling people underage

Dragonball started airing in 1990, at least where I live. Z was in 99.
If you weren't underage back then and you're still posting here, than your life is even more embarrassing than genuinely liking GT

it was forgotten for a reason, user
that reason is because it sucks

>you're underage!
>but if you're any older than me, that's bad too!
Keep digging.

>shit taste: the post
Freeza > Piccolo > Saiyans > Zamasu > Jiren > Buu > Taopaipai > Cell > Commander Red > GTshit

Everything is canon because altenate timelines. The movies are canon, GT is canon, Super is canon, the games are canon, the fanfic you wrote when you were 13 is canon, even Evolution is canon.

All the anons here bitching about DBS/GT being shit are retarded.
DB/DBZ are NOT masterpieces.
They came out at the right time as the very first of their kind, THATS IT!
Whoever praises the series for anything other than it being the first and being iconic etc is stupid as fuck.

The only reason DBS isnt as beloved as DBZ is because it did the EXACT same shit DBZ did BUT the time it did that is different. People now are just not satisfied with the basic stuff anymore. So they somehow think DBZ > DBS while in fact it was always DBZ = DBS.

>Half of Z was already repeating itself with the whole "new enemy, training, new transformation, people dies, next saga" thing.
>Let's make classic DragonBall again then, it will be an original adventure about finding the dragon balls. But it would be utterly ridiculous because Goku is too OP by the end of Z; after all, he can instantly travel wherever he likes on earth.
>So we need a new setting, Space.

>But, what are they doing in the space? Turns out the dragon balls were bad all along and using them that much during DB and Z basically condemned the world to oblivion, woops.
>protagonists will be the most uninteresting version of Future Trunks (but it's actually an adult version of kid trunks) and Goku -that's now a kid, because he needs to be underpowered at the point he's almost useless.
>But don't worry, he's traveling with Pan and Trunks, so he's surrounded by even more useless people.

>Never mind, the whole "let's do the first series again" sucked and failed pretty fast.
>Let's go full Z then, except fuck the original cast.

>Let's give Satan more screentime than Vegeta, let's kill Piccolo in a cameo (who cares he'll never be seen again), and Crilin needs to be a senile old man that also dies.
>We won't get it wrong this time: everything will be a rehash from DB or Z (entire episode plots, enemies, character design etc).

>You know what? Fuck it, let's do the Cell saga again, we'll use a recolor of Dr. Gero and we'll make Vegeta bad again, because we need another villain and Majin Vegeta wasn't enough.
>And let's fuse C17 with C17.

>At the end, Goku will leave to train with Shenron or something and became a semi-immortal being that just never returns to his family and friends, letting them die without ever saying goodbye.
>He'll came back like 100 years later, but he'll refuse to be approached by his own, senile granddaughter. >Vanishing yet again in the wind.

How can you fuck up so much in less than 65 episodes

Z is better than Kai. The filler made the anime better. We got stuff like Vegeta's backstory, Future Trunks's backstory and Future Gohan, Cell's backstory, Buu's amazing backstory, etc.

Because it shills anything dragonball
They use movie characters lile tarble and slug and no one seems to care.

Remember when GT was universally loathed?

I genuinely like SS4. There, I said it.

Let's do the math
>first aired in 1989 in Japan, let's say it needed 10 years to reach the whole world
If you weren't underage when you watched it, you're somewhere around 37 and 47 years old.

I rest my case.

Super doesn't have the interesting type of multiverse in which every possible event that could happen did happen in a different timeline. It has the boring type of multiverse in which the universes strongest are furries.

It still is.
It isn't the newest thing anymore tho, so kids that started with GT are now loathing Super.
Not because they watched it and they didn't like it (like everybody else that don't like GT); it's mostly because of Internet bandwagon and memes.

Haters of GT had the chance to watch it just a few years after the first time they saw Z (so, it was easily seen as a direct sequel), while its been decades between Z and Super (which is, as a consequence, commonly seen as a bastardized attempt of exploring your childhood, rather than a product on it's own).

More like Super made GT look better in comparison.

Look its the same issue that peopl had with starwars.
A franchise stays a profitable margin long enough that there is no way people would lose money investing in new content when it comes tp dragonball.
Part of it was nastalgia, but that only goes so far because when the original creator came back for more, for people who hate super and GT it was due to nostalgia. They wanted to go back to the days of Z where in the western world dragonball in general along with anime had a light underground fandom. It was thanks tp Z dragonball gpt popular but it was thanks to the fans that their expectations were in the wrpng place because Z is where they started and what they knew and when super came out, it wasnt what they remember.
People like myself however will eat the shit that AT poops out and like it. Because he is the master of dragonball, what he says goes, even when a lot of it is gag stuff.
I like Super for what it is, I love that Vegeta and Goku have a lot nore interactions than before. I like that Vegeta and wpuld like more characters keep pace with goku instead of everyone being left behind. I like that the weaker in power characters can still be useful do to their techniques.
I got my nostalgia feel with the Goku black arc, buy I'm ready to see something new in Toriyama's style.

That's precisely the argument of people that built their opinion on bandwagoning and Internet memes, indeed.

More like you assholes will never be satisfied no matter what Toriyama and Tori do.

I fucking guarantee if a new series follows Super people here will shit all over it and start slobbering Super's knob like they need it to live.

You can blame toei for that when it came to the 5 minute recover thing, and really in a fight 5 minutes is an eternity. But the way toei handled the tournament was all Universes get knocked out by U7, so Goku should have been wiped the amount of times when activating UI.

>if a new series follows Super people here will shit all over it and start slobbering Super's knob like they need it to live
Needs to be at least 8 years after the end of Super.

You're not even denying that it's going to happen. Seriously, why are Dragon Ball fans so fucking hard to please?

how does this make sense?

the bandwagoning is basically mindlessly hating GT without forming an own opinion

No, I'm very easy to please. Don't introduce dumb retcons (s-cells, 28 planets, limited multiverse, ruined future timeline, peaceful saiyans) or make Goku unlikable. Every single game that's come out has succeeded at this as digestible fanservice. Super fails even at that.

I'm 25 and I really liked GT.
Way better than Super is.

If it was good I would be satisfied. Both GT and Super were shit though. It's not a hate bandwagon. They're legitimately shit.

>the bandwagoning is basically mindlessly hating GT
?

You can see valid points against GT in this very thread, are you just pretending? Ask anyone, literally even normies, and they'll give you their own explanation about the shit that was GT.

because it's a shit series, with fans that want to make it look good, but can't
it's a story about a series of asspulls and plot armors with 1 or 2 potential waifus. bad thing happen? wish it away
only thing that makes it relevant is the monster of marketing and social media exposition it gets
fag

>dumb retcons
It's actually "finally giving an explanation to decades-old plot holes", like that time when potara just stopped working during the Majin Bu fight because the plot needed it

>make Goku unlikable
Goku was always a stupid retard in peaceful times, you liked him because he needed to get serious and his personality deeply changed whenever the world was threatened.
Super is set in peaceful times. Sorry

>Every single game that's come out has succeeded at this as digestible fanservice
Objectively wrong, every single game after BT3 is commonly considered as unworthy, only fighterZ and Xenoverse have an actual following (because they're a proper fighting game and a mmo)

Sure you got the sporadic BurstLimit fag that didn't have a ps2, the hipster claiming Infinite World was better, all the butthurting Budokai fans and the oldfags with Super DBZ, but that's just because the series was at its peak popularity back then

DB games started getting appreciated again when Super aired, because the whole ps3 generation was made of hated, unworthy cashgrabs (even by normie standards)

Well ...:
1. Sending Goku into space with a person who is useless in all forms of the adventure. I mean pan.
2. Aside the very end it was just Goku who could be that strong none of his allies were strong.
3.turning Goku into a child again
4. Having another set of dragonballs; this one is trickey because super does the same but it works for them. Mainly they couldnt go around the galaxy to get them since they were so huge to move around.
5. The bad guys were more throwaway villians to where a machine mutant was stronger than buu, the most powerful monster in the galaxy. Again super gets away with this but this is due to making the new characters be stronger than goku and a goal for goku to strive for.

6. Goku had no drive to better himself. This is the big one in GT. Goku in GT just seemed to want to train but drops it when the black star balls take off. Goku exploring the galaxy is cool and all but it loses its adventure feel when there is no antagonist looming over goku, like during the freiza saga with vegeta and gohan and krillin.
The stakes were earth was going to blow up, but they could have said fuck it lets go to new namek and use their balls to wish earth back. HELL They could have taken the namek dragonballs wished for everyone on earth to be relocated to new namek 2nd wish to bring earth back 3rd wish to send everyone back to earth. Simple as that.
With out a high stakes villian or at least one that uses the balls to his advantage takes away the excitement. Baby wasnt a threat until the end of his arc, super 17 made no sense since in hell they had the means to make another andriod, the dragons felt weak story wise compaired to the earlier GT arcs.

So what would be a "good" series in your opinion?

What, exactly, do you want?

Frieza > Cell >= Buu = Zamasu/Goku Black > Hit >= King Piccolo = The Saiyans > the rest

I disagree
But I dont think you are hitler.

24 here, that was my opinion as well before I torrented it again out of Super spite.
Jesus Christ man

This
The fans are like feminists, nothing you do will please them unless they are incontrol.

You can stop ignoring those valid critism anytime now user

I mean, you're not wrong
But that's the whole Dragonball expect the original manga, and only if you're a child/teen

So if you hate Dragon Ball so much, why are you still here? Why don't you just wash your hands of the entire franchise and just move on?

>Goku was always a stupid retard in peaceful times, you liked him because he needed to get serious and his personality deeply changed whenever the world was threatened.
>Super is set in peaceful times. Sorry
Agreed, Golu wasnt supposed to the japanese Superman, he was supposed to be the monkey king and he was not a hero.

>because it's a shit series, with fans that want to make it look good, but can't
>it's a story about a series of asspulls and plot armors with 1 or 2 potential waifus. bad thing happen? wish it away
>only thing that makes it relevant is the monster of marketing and social media exposition it gets
>fag
So like every anime?

King Piccolo > Tao Pai Papi > Cell > Fat Majin buu > Frieza > Zamasu > "super buu" >>>>>>>>> shit >>>>> the rest

probably because gt is hella far in the future from super

>with fans that want to make it look good, but can't
Nah, you mostly get haters that want to make it bad, but can't. So they post gifs of an episode that aired three years ago and that was fixed in bluray.

Really nigga, give social networks a look
Dragonball is full normie territory

>it's a story about a series of asspulls and plot armors with 1 or 2 potential waifus.
>bad thing happen? wish it away

That was Z

In Super, protagonists mostly lose to better warriors. Seriously, the only one they actually fucked over was Zamasu, and they still needed the help from God to to it

More importantly do any of the DBS songs have that same catchyness of the earlier DBZ/GT? Did they even hire the same artist? That guy was a legend.

this is what it means being a hack, Toriyama could have delivered a redemption arc for Gohan. stop trying to make Goku and Vegeta even stronger breaking the logic behind the last episode etc

Don't forget about the learning how to drive episode, that was the best.

Seriously: if you don't enjoy Dragon Ball, why do you insist on continuing to watch it?

Just let it go.

Its better than the many super-saiyan/base form recolors, I'll give it that. It was a cooler "evolution" than just using raw emotion/special KI, too.

>Zamasu that low
Opinion discarded.

Yes most recent is the ToP arc theme

No one but but a small minority wants gohan redemption story. Gohan is done, he is the boring protag we see more often in shitty shoenens.

>Super is set in peaceful times
Super confronts Goku with the deletion of the universe yet he reacts less than when Krillin stole his rock. There have never been higher stakes than their have been in Super. I can see why'd you forget that since the tension in this show is horrific.

>It's actually "finally giving an explanation to decades-old plot holes",
None of the stuff I mentioned is like that.

>Objectively wrong, every single game after BT3 is commonly considered as unworthy

Most are just considered forgettable because there are so many of them. I'll take "forgettable" over "awful" any day.

>Thinking people hating on Super are still watching Dragonball
That's were you're wrong kiddo

So they're complaining about a show they don't even watch?

Why? No really. WHY?

>Super confronts Goku with the deletion of the universe
When? He's never personally threatened, and when he is, we see shit like Ultra Instinct

>There have never been higher stakes than their have been in Super
There was never God himself and his twin brother watching over their dear friend Goku, to be fair. I can see why he's pretty confident

>None of the stuff I mentioned is like that.
It is, you just don't like it because it's midichlorian-tier.

>Most are just considered forgettable because there are so many of them
No, it's because they were horribly mediocre and cheap cashgrabs. Which wouldn't be a problem if we never got decent dragonball games before.
Bandai stared pumping money into Dragonball again with Super.

Can you link it? I'm searching on youtube unless you mean the OP2 I dunno that one doesn't really compare to the old ones and I don't even think it's the same guy.

Is this your first day on the Internet or something

Fuck this is Sup Forums of all places

youtu.be/JDVK2Id2uAc

Nah that's not even the same guy. He's alright but I miss songs like youtube.com/watch?v=QBcuHA3fWCo maybe it's cause I grew up watching DB/Z on laserdisc but that guy's songs really imprinted on me what Dragon Ball should be.

Is there a problem with questioning the status quo?

>It is

Such as? I brought up world denigrating bullshit like 28 planets and you came up with a potara strawman.

>He's never personally threatened
He's as "personally threatened" as he was against Cell. This is the Cell Games on a multiversal level.

>No, it's because they were horribly mediocre and cheap cashgrabs

i.e. forgettable. If Super was just "horribly mediocre" that'd be a step up.

lol you posted a song I never really liked, it was also from a movie

Dragonball needs songs like this
youtu.be/odhuGelEH3g
youtu.be/TzBRirS7_0s
youtu.be/UayZrwaI1R4

Pan a cute

GT and DBS are non-canon garbage.

DB, DBZ and the Bardock/Trunks specials are canon.

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I didn't care for GT when it was airing. Thanks to Super, I miss GT.

I don't understand why people shit on GT so hard. Sure, it has dumb inconsistencies but narratively speaking it's pretty on par with DB/DBZ. A bunch of dumb fights, alright plotlines (except Super 17) and some good emotional moments.
It's not incredibly good but neither was DBZ.

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>Such as?
The very stuff you mentioned, for example. World denigrating strawman won't help

>He's as "personally threatened" as he was against Cell. God wasn't watching Cell Game, also God wasn't bff with Goku.

>i.e. forgettable
Sure, bad stuff is forgettable

>If Super was just "horribly mediocre" that'd be a step up
The whole Dragonball is mediocre. Fuck, the whole Japanese animation is 99% utterly mediocre kiddie/teen oriented commercials.
If Super is a little more bearable than most of the crap that manchild country shits out on daily basis, it's only because it features characters we liked as a kids.

Without shitting on them too much, like GT did

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>The only reason DBS isnt as beloved as DBZ is because it did the EXACT same shit DBZ did BUT the time it did that is different
I call bullshit.
The structure of the story in DBS is pretty bad. The only decent arc was the tournament between U6 and U7 because the premise was really simple.
In DBZ the progression of the story was pretty cool. The story introduced a cast of villains and everyone presented their own unique abilities as they get close to the big bad, as he is given characterization to give the heroes a reason to fight them. There are twists change of dynamics every step of the way.
Zamasu's arc was the characters going back and forth to the same place to fight Zamasu over and over, and the Tournament arc is endless filler with no investment in the big bad of the arc who is incredibly static. Besides the poor writing like the stamina bullshit.
It's boring.

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>at 6 gohan was as tall as his dad when he himself was 12

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