What makes an antagonist/villain good?

What makes an antagonist/villain good?

depends on the context, same as every other narrative element

Good antagonists have understandable goals, have a motivation for their actions that fits their character, and aren't 100% evil. I find simply evil characters to be quite boring, it's always more enjoyable when the antagonist's goals and desires conflict with the protagonist's in a realistic way.

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i really like whne the villain has their own clearly defined goals and motivations that put them in conflixct with the hero rather than them simply existing as a road block for the hero.

A good villian should facilitate the events in a story. like said, completely evil villians are boring. They should be a character before they're a villian, someone kind of relatable. Kira yoshikage and the phantom troupe are good examples

I don't understand why the best antagonists are always the ones who have better motivation than the protagonists.
An antagonist serves to develop and evolve the protagonist, but my favorite antagonists are ones I genuinely want to prevail.
Your question is a good one even if driven into the ground, OP, as a good antagonist shouldn't be someone we cheer for, but the antagonists we cheer for are always our favorites.

That makes a good character/anti-villain, not a good antagonist.
A good antagonist would be an evil person but well done in a realistic fashion. Evil people do exist, and are more frightening than monsters and aliens.
Henry from Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer for example is a truly vile and evil person, and a realistic one. He isn't evil just for the sake of it or in a silly way, he's a sick twisted fucker who's not right in the head and not all there, whose perception of right and wrong is non-existent.
If you want an antagonist to win because they are justified they are not doing their job. They are extremely well written and well crafted characters but not good antagonists.
If you don't want to see an antagonist die because they bring so much chaos to the series that is a good protagonist because the antagonism he/she brings to the show is so strong and good you don't want to see him/her go.

Does french animation count? Nox is such good villain, you actually end up feeling sorry for him.

Bondrewd is another good antagonist

You just have a softspot for canned villians

WUZ NINGENS N SHIEET

Sorry, what do you mean by canned villains?

I fucked up my last sentence
>If you don't want to see an antagonist die because they bring so much chaos to the series, that is a good antagonist because the antagonism he/she brings to the show is so strong and benefits the experience so much you don't want to see him/her go.
Sorry to bring up Western shit as an example but Thor Gunderson in Hell on Wheels is a fantastic example. He's lost his fucking mind from his time in Chansellorsville Prison, he hates the protagonist for being a former Confederate and he places all his insecurity, all his hate and past trauma on him. His sole goal is to fuck with Bohannon by any means as he represents everything bad that ever happened to him in his eyes.
He goes to such extremes to bring conflict to the show, killing off major characters and becoming a cult leader just to fuck with the protagonist, that when the noose is around his neck you truly don't want to see him depart because he brought so much to the experience. His antagonism developed the protagonist and moved the show forward. You know he entirely deserves his fate but you don't want to see him go because of what he brought to the series and how entertaining and despicable he was.
Thor Gunderson is the best example of a antagonist I can offer.

A good villain convinces the audience he's not in the wrong
A great villain convinces the audience that he's right

Bondrewd is another good example in that he has a reason why he's such an evil fuck, but he's still a vile irredeemable piece of shit. He's just a well written evil POS. He is an antagonist and not an anti-villain. You're worried what he's gonna do and fear what he's capable of. You don't cheer for him to succeed but you appreciate how much he antagonizes the protagonists. THIS is an antagonist.

Incorrect, the villain should either believe that he's right or that he has a good reason to be wrong. Just making the villain a good guy who uses extreme/stupid methods is lazy writing.

When the audience can empathize or understand the villian

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I feel stupid now for only mentioningthat when a villain/antagonists actual, principle role is to facilitate the plot' s conflict by impeding a protagonists path to a goal. That's the foremost principle. Adding empathy on top of that, however, will help the villain ascend beyond just a mere plot device.

*Pic unrelated

The feeling that you cant reason with them will make them more frightening because it will make them seem like an animal rather than a person

A lot of villains achieve this by being depicted as insane, or have been taken over by their belief in something occult

They have to want something and they arent going to be persuaded against it, much like the hero. A hero momentarily considering giving up can add character and tension to a story because they are on the brink of failure, while a villain momentarily considering giving up can add character but not tension since the villain becomes more relatable but now shows that they can be reasoned with which makes them less of a force of fear and terror

Just imagine what you feel for a villain that is almost convinced that they should become good, but eventually returns to what they were doing. It may be a touching moment but after that they do not seem as menacing. It also seems awkward to see the villain again after this point, and most shows hamfist the villain to keep being a villain by having something take control of them

Pic is unironically the best deuteragonist and antagonist

Char is good tho

the antagonist who is true neutral

Yes the awkward bit I mentioned doesnt have to be awkward, and it is probably the point where a lot of great villains became great: their depiction of becoming relatable added something great enough to the story that it outweighed their loss of menace

Dragon from Ping Pong I think is another good example of that. However Dragon never really talked it out. He called out the hero as the hero, and then put himself against him at the end, but then through playing against him, and hearing what Peco had to say, he changed. We get to hear the conversation inside him, and so we get to relate to him. He loses his menace just as he is about to lose the match, and stop being the villain altogether

What follows is simply amazing

Squealer did nothing wrong

Them being right in their own way.

Anime has always severely lacked quality antagonists

Good writing.

Doing nothing wrong.

Good writing, they need to be charismatic, cunning, and looks are optional.

Only if antagonist has more right on his side.

What are you saying he is an Main character.

This is a bit out of the blue, but Naruto seriously had some of the best villains out there. None of them were really evil, except maybe Kaguya. All of them had their own goals and motivations and did what they did because they genuinely believed that it'd make the world a better place. They became villains because of the circumstances that they grew up in forced them to.

Most notable is probably Madara, Obito and Pain/Nagato I guess. Primarily Pain in my opinion. He genuinely believed he could achieve world peace with his method and had watched his parents die in the war.

It was nice and refreshing from the regular "hurr i am evil" villains.

>except maybe Kaguya
she just wanted to protect her children from harm though

>Orochimaru

The only thing needed to make a mediocre villain into a great one is a few minute changes in the plot..
and before you whine about the frenchiness of it the special was animated by madhouse

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This. What people are describing here are different types of villains, but none of these make a villain particularly good. Inevitably what it comes down to isn't the villain itself, but how the villain relates to the story and the protagonists.

Betelgeuse from Re: Zero is a good example of a villain who has a bunch of check marks to be considered a "good villain" in that he's definitely evil, charismatic in his own dark way, has his own motivations, and whatnot, but ultimately isn't a good villain because the story just uses him as a plot device. Because of the hero's ability to go back and undo whatever Betelgeuse does, Betelgeuse himself is just a means to an end. Even in the context of the story, he's not that important.

Who is the best villain in the past 8 years?