Would modern audiences be able to stomach another show like Ideon which takes multiple watchings to understand...

Would modern audiences be able to stomach another show like Ideon which takes multiple watchings to understand? If it came out today, wouldn't it be unsuccessful?

It feels like anime is changing in tune with the modern attention span.

No, modern audiences can barely stomach watching the original Evangelion.

Ideon isn't as complex as you make it out to be, and it wasn't successful in its time. It flopped and was cancelled 11 episodes early.

D E C O N S T R U C T I O N

People already find 2-cour shows too slow in this day and age, the modern 1-cour 12-13 episode series has crippled their attention spans.

You're not as smart as you think, idiot.

I already know the plot of ideon bc i watched shirobako

Thing is, deaths and struggle should have a purpose. Ideon was death for death's sake. Which is cheap as fuck as a device in story-telling.

2 cours is the best length for telling a fleshed out but focused story, it's just that so few writers use them right. So many writers view it as them having tons of free space that they can use for pointless filler and slow, repetitive storylines, so many of them use the tired and never ever good "1st cour is episodic, 2nd cour is continuous" structure, that 2 cour shows usually end up shit. Just this season, we have Darling in the Franxx which is doing exactly that. As such, 1 cour is usually the best for pacing and structure. Again, this season we have Devilman Crybaby, Violet Evergarden, Sora Yori, and Koi Ame, all 1 cour shows which are actually well paced and structured.

>Just this season, we have Darling in the Franxx which is doing exactly that.
The only problem with Franxx is that it's hiding a lot of its bigger goals, and only dripping out info of the overarching plot. Which makes the episodes feel a bit disjointed since there's no clear goal yet.

Evangelion wasn't much better though, it pretty much plays the monster of the week completely straight for about 13 episodes.

>Violet Evergarden
>Well paced
You mean how it wastes at least 4 first ep in fucking fillers with barely connected plot around a bland main character?

user, the last episode of Franxx was a beach episode. A motherfucking beach episode. inB4 "But it had world building!" Ah yes, they saw a ruined town and exposited to each other about how the show takes place in a post-apocalyptic world. As if literally everyone hadn't already figured that out already. What a valuable use of half an entire episode.
>Evangelion wasn't much better though, it pretty much plays the monster of the week completely straight for about 13 episodes.
Don't bring Evangelion up for no reason, the comparisons people make between Franxx and it are pathetic. But I will say that Evangelion does something new with all of its epsiodes, there literally isn't a single episode where we don't learn something new about the characters and world.

Because that's the fucking premise of the show. Violet travels the world and meets new people, learning new things along the way. It isn't "filler" when it's what the entire show is. And each of those episodes brought something new to the table, actually resolved its storyline, and was 10X more entertaining to watch than "Franxx characters sit on a beach and try to tell each othe about their trite, cliche feelings but still don't quite manage it because this was designed to be an episode where nothing meaningful happens."

>2 cours is the best length for telling a fleshed out but focused story

>a show has 1 beach episode therefore it is badly paced

>a show barely develops any of its characters or its world for 6 episodes, then deicdes to make the 7th a beach episode
>people defend this

>barely develops
According to whom?
None of the previous 6 episodes lacked development. Granted it focused mostly on Hiro and 02's relationship, but that was just the focus of the previous arc.
Besides that they developed the relationships between members of the team, and their personality, eg Zorome

In no way can the previous episodes be constructed as being "episodic", what happens in every following episode is connected to the previous. The plot progressed; granted, they didn't reveal much about the universe yet, but there was a good amount of information. It's just that the first arc focused on 02 and Hiro's development and it ended. Now we have a 1 episode intermission where the plot didn't develop. Whatever.

You're just being intentionally blind to what the series is being to nitpick on it. There was nothing wrong with the pacing up to this episode, and a beach episode isn't by itself bad pacing.

>Violet travels the world and meets new people, learning new things along the way. It isn't "filler" when it's what the entire show is
Except it didn't. Violet didn't learn anything. She just magically become good at it the next episode while the previous one, she is barely able to write a letter. It's abrupt and made her feel less like a person and more like a plot device. None of the locations or characters she met are interesting nor there are any lessons or meaningful ethos in each episode. The whole show felt like the author poor attempt to copi Kino no Tabi with his own chuuni Donut Steel OC.

>that was just the focus of the previous arc
Establishing who the two main characters are and what their relationship is shouldn't have been a 6 episode arc.
>they developed the relationships between members of the team, and their personality
What have we really learnt about any of the other characters since epiosde 1 or 2 though? What has changed in their relationships?
>Zorome
In episode 1, he was a brat who was annoyed with Hiro and wanted to impress others. In episode 7, he's a brat who's annoyed with Hiro and wants to impress others. We haven't learnt anything interesting about him, he certainly hasn't changed at all. His realtionship with Hiro has shifted a little, but that's due to Hiro's development, not his own.
>In no way can the previous episodes be constructed as being "episodic"
I didn't mean to imply they were episodic, when I said "Franxx which is doing exactly that", I was referring to the "pointless filler and slow, repetitive storylines" part.
>The plot progressed;
Barely, and very slowly. Every episode was annoying, just waiting too long for something to happen. Episodes 2 and 3 took the piss, literally useless.
>Now we have a 1 episode intermission where the plot didn't develop. Whatever.
No, they can't offer that little with the first arc, then offer literally nothing with the first ep after it. This a huge deal breaker.
>You're just being intentionally blind to what the series is being to nitpick on it.
No, I'm just really struggling to enjoy a mediocre series. And voicing the fact that it is mediocre because its writers viewed it being 2 cours as just having tons of free space to do nothing. A show should either have enough engaging, interesting things going on to fill 2 cours, or just be 1 cour. Which is my original point.

1/2

>Ideon which takes multiple watchings to understand
Maybe if you're retarded

I pity anyone who watches the Ideon show more than once.
It's like Endless 8. By episode 3 you already say I GET IT, but it just keeps going.

>beach episode isn't by itself bad pacing.
Obviously the fact that it takes place on a beach isn't a probelm itself, it's the whole idea of having a "beach episode". The reason why writers make characters visit a beach is because they don't have enough actually good content to fill their show, and need some stock entertainment to fill the gaps. So they just put the characters in skimpy outfits and sit them on a beach for the audience to oggle at. And this episode fits the idea of a "beach epsiode" down to a T. It pretends to present something new with having the characters see the ruined town, but actually doesn't; nothing in the ruined town contains information that we as viewers couldn't already piece together. It briefly flashes a new character, but then gives them only a single line and sends them away without even giving their name. It teases the characters progressing their relationships, but something ridiculous interrupts them before they can. The entire episode is comprised of all the tropes and tricks used to buy time when writers don't have anything actually good to offer.

Look, Imma say it.
Ideon was a hard slog.
I can see where it actually broke away from the tropes of the time and when it does it is fucking i n t e r e s t i n g.
But the voice acting is atrocious.
And the animation is bland.
Designs=boring.
I only saw it for how it impacted evangelion.
Also Eureka 7 took the wrong lessons from this.
>have anoying children
>don't kill them off

>What have we really learnt about any of the other characters since epiosde 1 or 2 though? What has changed in their relationships?
They accepted 02 and Hiro in their team. Zorome learned to respect his partner and became a more likable character overall, thanks in part to what happened during the first mission. That was clearly meant to show character development.

>In episode 1, he was a brat who was annoyed with Hiro (...)
That's very superficial. Being a brat and being boastful is part of his character, yes, but his relationship with hiro improved a lot. Before he was hostile towards him, now he is a lot more friendly and likable in general. He has accepted hiro and he accepted his partner. He went from being almost an antagonist to becoming close to a friend. In the beach episode he even tries to kiss hiro though obviously that is a joke.
In the first arc the story managed to develop and flesh out 02 and Hiro somewhat, and Zorome as well. It also established the characters of Ichigo and Mitsuru. I'll agree that the others were kinda left out, and that they could've done more, but this isn't what I'd call shit pacing.

>I didn't mean to imply they were episodic, when I said
Well that's exactly what it sounded like considering what you said

>No, they can't offer that little with the first arc, then offer literally nothing with the first ep after it. This a huge deal breaker.
The ruins could very well be more important than just wasting time; They might be establishing them to use them next episode or later in the plot. I agree that the beach episode wasn't very useful as far as we know at this point, but it's just something they throw at the viewers to get more sales.

I don't think right now I can say that they are fucking up and just need to fill in. The first arc kept me engaged, in fact I watched it twice.
And this isn't my first anime nor my 200th. I'm not easily entertained by shit I've seen a million times before and this isn't it.

Zorome goes from not liking him to accepting him just because he can pilot. It's not character development, it just shows how stunted he is.
Also they don't know about relationships but they still get horny. And also the fat one pretty much has a relationship with his cunt.

Show is inconsistent in its bare bones open hand plot. The symbolism is outrageously out in the open in a way that it's pretty pointless to go on. There's no mystery to anything.
They have a hard arc closure, which is very unusual, but it works in its detriment because it fails to hook you to anything ahead. "Oh, there's more mysterious kids, well, good for you carry on".
And a fucking beach episode. UMI DA are the first spoken words in it. It's disgusting.

>They accepted 02 and Hiro in their team.
>but his relationship with hiro improved a lot.
>now he is a lot more friendly and likable in general
I think you're exaggerating these things, and again, this is all due to and revolving around Hiro and 02's development, no one else's. I also think you focus on them making Zorome more likeable (to you) way too much. The main things the show has focused on is Ichigo's love for Hiro, glasses guy's love for Ichigo, the mysteries of why the adults lie to the kids and keep them locked up, what the Klaxosaurs are, etc. None of which have had much progress at all, just little hints and teases.

It doesn't really matter how much will happen later on, the fact is that I've already sat through 7 episodes where it's been more disappointing than delivering and that's gonna hurt my opinion of the show overall. And I've just seen this exact shit too many times, it happens with like 90% of 2 cour shows, so few people actually fill them with 2 cours worth of content.

>And this isn't my first anime nor my 200th.
You have abnormally low standards in that case.