So now that Freezer-sama has surpassed Goku, Vegeta and everyone else's heroics over the course of their lives with a single death ray, how do you feel about the future of the Dragon Ball series?
Remember: this is the man (supposedly) who killed BOTH Goku and Vegeta's parents, and their entire homeworld. By helping to defeat Universe 6, he's partially responsible for the erasure of Universe 6's Planet Sadala as well. This is someone who has killed well over billions of lives at this point in the series, and now has access to the Super Dragon Balls.
All things considered, rather than having the boring "lol Goku wins" ending with an OP power up, Toriyama-sensei opted instead to leave the future of the series very open while staying consistent. Remember: Jiren has been hyped up as being retardedly powerful for almost 2 years now, does it really make sense that with a single OP power up, that Goku with rapidly depleting stamina could actually Master a new form and defeat such a powerful character within the span of 48 minutes? Rather this ending takes advantage of Frasier's tendency to employ surprise as a tactic and attacking enemies when they're at their weakest (such as after using all your energy to ring out Ultra Instinct Goku). Also the idea of Freezer being able to use the Super Dragon Balls to become an immortal GoD or something like that is exciting for the future of the series. I could even imagine Goku and Jiren training together to defeat GoD Golden Frasier.
I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku.
Vegeta is still a mangina.
So you say, but one with the main girl as his wife and best boy as his son (who saved multiple timelines). Even becomes a better hero, father, husband, lover, friend, etc. than Goku (not hard to measure up against someone so terrible, mind you). Guy even makes his own moves (like GG, which is far stronger than Kamehameha).
>TFW I called Freiza shooting Jiren in the back when he was out of stamina at the start
Only thing I got wrong was him being about to finish off Goku instead of succeeding
>Being a better father than Goku
So what? He ain't special
>Makes his own moves and GG is stronger than Kamehameha
Yes he makes his own moves props to him for that but there is no proof GG is stronger than Kamehameha so don't make up bullshit claims
>Has the best son who saved the timeline
>Married the best girl
Scrubcha's sloppy seconds
Vegeta got his future son killed just so he could stroke his Saiyan boner. Krillin's hot wife 18/Lazuli whooped his manlet ass. Also, her husband almost killed Vegeta and only lived because of Goku begging him not to do it. Vegeta is a former mass murderer so no one can act like he's better than Goku. lol
>GG, which is far stronger than Kamehameha
They're the same shit, asshole. What makes them stronger is who's got more power or ki.
>so what Just stating facts, friend.
>no proof Shall I spell it out for you, boy? The Raditz fight made it clear ki techniques can focus one's PL so as to increase the power put out. From this we saw what Kamehameha can do in canon (aside from official sources that back up this obvious matter). That is, roughly 2.22x.
Goku's base against Vegeta was just over 8K (we'll low ball it to just 8K) with the latter at 18K (at his best). KK wasn't cutting it (16K), so he used KKx3 (24K) to overwhelm (doing tremendous damage to himself in the process). Vegeta mistook this ki control technique as Goku's actual power and something he could keep up (not the case) for having not been able to hear what was being said earlier in the explanation (which Vegeta laments not being able to hear).
Anyway, Vegeta uses GG, which Goku's Kamehameha ties with. 18K ties with 24K. Do you not immediately grasp the implication here? His 33% advantage wasn't cutting it somehow. Even official sources (often making bad mistakes) had to recognize this much. How did you miss it? Goku needed to go for a 77% advantage (KKx4 for 32K *without getting into the Kamehameha doing work on it*) to win the clash. Mind you, it somehow did no damage (beyond the emotional).
If you want to get into numbers, so be it, but it isn't really necessary (~3x for GG *just focus on known PLs and how they tied up despite them*). I'm somehow always surprised something this obvious isn't understood in the community (frequently). People think it (GG) is equal to or lesser than (Kamehameha) when it is very clearly superior (in canon). Roshi's legacy (self-described as "dog piss" *compared to Tri-Beam, mind you*) could hardly keep up with Dodonpa. 50 years of work and Vegeta just makes up his own, better version. Who needs to copy from some old pervert?
>Yamchop getting any I'd be surprised if even Puar put out for him. More likely, he gets pegged by the transformed Bulma while in his best stance.
>blame game You should probably stop while you're ahead.
>act like Who's acting? He always beats Goku in their fights (among the other things noted). At this point, he is even the better human/Earthling than the guy who was raised on Earth.
>same shit Many attacks are. Except some are just better for whatever reason. I suppose his funny gestures are the superior way to go about that sort of beam move.
>what makes them stronger is You had best be having a laugh, son. Consider the following . Really, how is it Goku's dumbass fans are this dense? 18K being equal to 24K with no sirens going off? Come now.
Who cares Goku never slaughtered millions. Kind of ironic how Vegeta use to get on Goku's case about being soft and shit.
Anyone who expected a good ending after all the dogshit that happened in DBS is retarded.
Monday I'm moving to a developing country for aid work, and I can expect not to be able to watch the finale for months while I figure out a good internet situation. When I first found that out I was pretty disappointed, but now that I read the spoiler I'm really fucking glad I'll miss it. Hopefully I'll forget that super ever existed.
>who cares So you wish to concede? Is that how you wish to end the conversation? Well, at least you know understand something as simple as GG being stronger than Kamehameha (much as how Vegeta is undefeated against Goku *2-0*).
>never slaughtered millions I recall him being the retard going on about how Gero hadn't done anything yet and wanting to fight the androids (among other blunders). This without getting into his errors in other sagas (much less the non-canon Super, which I'm fairly confident you'll accept as more than merely official like so many other know-nothings *probably anime-only, too*).
>ironic Indeed, Vegeta ended up developing as a character into a better overall person. How terrible of him. What's worse is never making jobbing to the MC (always burying his rival in their fights). What a dick. AT had the nerve to create and kill a character (Frieza) in this guy's place. Even spited his editors by using Vegeta's seed to create 'future boy' for killing the Fridge (stealing from the main timeline's Goku).
Just don't get yourself killed in some shithole like South Africa.
>killed his father >killed his people >killed his planet >killed his pride >killed his freedom >killed him on Namek >killed him AGAIN on Earth >Cucks Vegeta out his promise to Cabba
Vegeta and Goku both suck. Piccolo, Trunks and Bulma are the best
It's about time to ban dragon ball off of Sup Forums. People really need to move on to new anime and manga this shit is getting fucking old .
>old Plenty of such series. Berserk is still ongoing, for instance. You'll be dead before it ends (as will be Miura).
>various Didn't Fridge get murdered by a lavender haired girly boy that was spawn of this fellow? Fairly sure his dad died begging for his life, too. Even offered the kid the lizard's place. Not that it would matter much given that place is boot-licking for Billy Cats and his gay friend Whiskey.
Perhaps one day AT will be kind enough to let Freezer here get a win against Goku (that's all Vegeta ever gets). Maybe he won't get sent back to his fruity version of Hell (or plain 'destroyed'). Pretty petty of Vegeta to kill basically all of Frieza's army after turning on the guy. Having one of his subjects murder Mr. Changling in Super was pretty sad, too.
At least he's been cut this one break (apparently beating Jiren). Who knows. Maybe AT will let Frisbee play nanny for Bra or something. Vegeta? He's got other plans. 3-0 isn't going to realize itself.
>Piccolo You poor bastard.
That's just proof that Vegeta was that much stronger than Goku, you fucking retard. Do you really think that if, for example, current level God Goku and Vegeta got into a beam clash, Goku used Kamehameha and Vegeta used Galick Gun, that Vegeta would win simply because he used Galick Gun and it's a superior beam skill? BULLSHIT. They'd be fucking tied. Because their power levels are similar. It's as simple as that. You can get into the technicalities of ki control and focus of power, and that's fair, but Galick Gun isn't just "superior" to Kamehameha Wave. They're the same fucking type of attack, it's a giant beam of energy being shot at you.
>retard Indeed, you are. I'll repeat. Goku is ~8K. Vegeta is 18K. These are canon values (not merely official *though that's plenty for your kind, really*). KK multiplies PL (AT found this troubling later, so it got dropped along with tails *SS does not have a canon multiplier, if you didn't realize this already*).
8K is less than 18K. It is true. However, Goku used KKx3 to have 24K before Kamehameha modified it further (if it somehow didn't, Vegeta's GG would just steamroll clean over him and take out the planet). Raditz showed the move as 2.22x (official reading operate on this observation of canon, too), but, as before, the details aren't important. Goku's PL became higher than Vegeta's (by 33%), but he was only merely able to tie with him. Thus, GG was doing more work than Kamehameha. This isn't as complicated as you make it seem, dear boy.
NOTE: Just re-read what I wrote, read the manga, etc. You've embarrassed yourself enough with this display.
>same type of move But better. Just how it goes. The form, technique, etc. counts for much, lad. You should know this much already. Have you ever properly read the source material? Even a speedreader shouldn't be this deep in the dark. You don't have to like it, but that's what AT willed (like Vegeta being undefeated against Goku).
>current level >Super Non-canon (and irrelevant to this matter).
>think that No, I don't think AT would even remember what he wrote before. Like the characters he wrote (not just Vegeta's feelings, but his memories, too) thinking Vegeta killed people Nappa killed (read: didn't actually kill *only Piccolo and only by accident when going after Gohan*) and Goku won their fight (when he clearly got KO'd before others had to come save the guy *still in a TKO state after waking*). Even if one were to remind AT (who blazed through his own work, purportedly) and explain the implications to him, it is doubtful he himself gets it (or that the official material covering it would go against him making the moves equals or just putting Kamehameha over despite being known as a low-tier trash since Tien's introduction).
>CAPS Calm yourself. There is no need to be upset. So what if Vegeta always beats Goku? So what if he has the better wife, son, etc.? Does it even matter if he made his own moves and his one-off (immediately cast away like all other named moves and some non-named like the fireball) was a better version of what Goku never graduated from (his starter ki attack)? It is just trivia, kid. Trivial. Like Goku when pit up against his better (Vegeta).
>the would be tied If the techniques were equal, Vegeta would have lost the struggle at KKx3 (Goku had the power advantage). If their power were equal (KKx3 is stronger *you can do the Math*), that would imply what you note.
Why is everyone jumped on the boat saying Frieza will beat Jiren? The spoilers never say this and Frieza is heavily injured. How will he beat Jiren at this point?
>are similar It doesn't take much of a difference (percentage wise) at all to grossly overpower people in DB. Have you never noticed this? Goku absolutely trounced Vegeta in melee, yet GG was able to close the gap (being just that good, apparently). Must be villain plot armor that kept him from being killed outright from the KKx4 beam taking him over though (thing was nearly double his PL, but he rode it and lept free with no real damage taken *just rather cross about the whole affair*).
>simple No, friend. The only thing simple here (other than Goku) is you (and the fact GG is superior, I suppose).
>that's fair That's how it is.
>isn't just superior Maybe the pose is more awkward to perform. Does that appease you? How generous am I to allow you this much? No need to thank me.
Just how EPIC, do you think Freeza vs. Jiren is gonna be with Toei's cream of the crop attached to 131? I can't wait for Based Lord Freeza going all OOOHOHOHO as he blows Jiren the fuck out, animated by Yuuya Takahashi.
Also Jirens probably going to be immensely weakened
>All things considered, rather than having the boring "lol Goku wins" ending with an OP power up, Literally has never happened except for the very end of Dragon Ball pre-timeskip. Goku actually winning all on his own hasn't been seen since Namek Saga.
>All things considered, rather than having the boring "lol Goku wins" ending with an OP power up, Toriyama-sensei opted instead to leave the future of the series very open while staying consistent. I'd much rather have Super end with Goku finally winning something important. >Remember: Jiren has been hyped up as being retardedly powerful for almost 2 years now, He didn't show up in the theme song until a year ago. This time at 2016, we hadn't even started the Goku Black arc yet.
17 will still be in the ring since Zeno never pushed his knockout/death button. While Frieza will get the last blow on him, he will be denied his wish on the Super Dragon Balls, as it will instead go to 17 who was an objectively superior fighter in the tournament.
Having given up on his dream of a boat, he will instead opt for a yacht and let all of the deleted universes stay deleted.
Ah, I see I'm not the only one who thought this.
The spoilers say Goku gets knocked out by Jiren, but then out of nowhere a death beam hits him. Freeza, battered, is still in it to win it.
Not fake, either. Straight from Herms.
You could've had Goku win AND leave the series wide open.
>Goku manages one final hit that's just enough to knock Jiren off the stage. >Goku collapses, exhausted after the monumental effort. >El Grande Padre announces Jiren's elimination. >Everyone cheering >Goku smiles on the ground, proud of what he managed. >Suddenly, Goku is sent flying. >Frieza kicked him off the stage and declares himself the MVP.
It wasn't hard.
He's going to win the Tournament. I'm serious.
>cites non-canon Riveting.
As before, Goku's 24K (from KK3) was somehow only merely equal to Vegeta 18K GG (33% difference). There really isn't any wiggle room here. Goku is just the type to stick with low-tier shit. He is a 'copy' genius (like Tien), yet he doesn't use the superior Dodonpa (much less Tri-Beam). GG proved superior, yet he still stuck to his lesser variation.
NOTE: Another fun thought? SB is not even a 1.0 case (just incredible how shit that move is for efficiency). Should be obvious in canon, but just working with official values will give you some appreciation for this reality (just check with Kid Buu).
so is there an episode tonight or should I come back next week?
Shoulnd't have stuck around (briefly) to have a go at another thread. I'll resist after this.
Shouldn't it be obvious? He's retarded like Gero. Gero could have taken Cells from Tien for the sake of superior techniques, but opted out. He could have gotten later samples from the returning fighters, too, yet here we are. A Cell that didn't have IT out of the gate. He never even used SBC in canon (another move stronger than Kamehameha and shouldn't take so damn long with both hands as Piccolo demonstrates on Nappa *despite missing*).
Cell didn't have too much sense once he started taking in glorified teenagers. Mind you, even his smartest self was fucking up (Kamehameha is such a joke and he pulls that one out of the hat despite Frieza's cells among other options). Just the worst.
>Vegeta's genes The same ones that make him undefeated against Goku. I'd say it paid off for him.
NOTE: Seriously though. With the GG stuff properly covered, we can discuss SB another time.
>Frieza actually beats Jiren My sides have left orbit bravo Toei just bravo
It begs the question of whether or not Goku losing would cause more riots. Mexicans love Goku but they also love Jiren.
It doesn't explicitly state that he knocks Jiren out with the death beam so anything's possible
I love having foreskin because I could shove my sister's barbie into my dick pretending I was Cell.
I wish Pokemon would still be a huge deal in Mexico.
Imagining the mass public butthurt over Ash getting BLASTO BARN makes me moist.
>Takami: It certainly was; it’s rare for so many characters to debut all at once. It was a challenge to create all their designs and backstory. However, Toei Animation produces One Piece, and its Dressrosa and Marineford arcs also featured fairly large, chaotic battles, so the staff had experience. We resolved to take this challenge. Huh, it kinda sounds like Toei designed most of the ToP participants themselves, should have known no way Lazyama could have pulled it off.
Wait, was there a leak I missed? I thought there wasn't a new episode until the 24th/25th which would be the final one?
Not every new anime is bad you have to look it up to see what anime is good that season. Best anime this season is junji ito collection. youtu.be/mjt_Z0xH5Mo