So we can all agree that this is the most overrated manga of all time, right?

So we can all agree that this is the most overrated manga of all time, right?

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We can all agree that you're wrong.

yeah, it's shit

Can we agree that op is a contrarion faggot?

>OPM
>Not One Piece
>Not Hunter x Hunter
>Not Naruto
>Not Bleach
>Not Dragon Ball
>Not SnK
Tell me more how you were kicked in the head by a horse as a child

Still much better than bnha in every aspect.

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>Hunter x Hunter
>overrated
Did you make a mistake somewhere?

That would be Evangelion

Well... How are you defining a good show as such ?

>One Piece
>Dragon Ball
Hah, fag.
>Naruto
>Bleach
Who overrates these two exactly? Bleach especially, it's the punching bag of big shounen.
>HxH
As a fan I can say that people do tend to go overboard.
>SnK
This I can definitely agree with.

Literally nobody reads the Dragon Ball manga compared to the anime, it shouldn't even be there

>manga
no, no it is not

this

also Webcomic is one of the best things out there, even though I absolutely love Murata's art, I still prefer the webcomic. Idk it just fits better with the whacky theme and the deconstructive aspects of the story.

It's good

how can it be overrated when it does everything better than any that came before it and after? Serious question OP.

The way he draws Fubuki is pure art.

Here? Hell no, Sup Forums hates OPM.

I just read through it all again after I last put it on hold a few years ago
Holy fuck this is slow. 3 years ago they were just introducing Garo and they still haven't concluded that yet. I guess a lot has happened though.

I want to read ONE now, where should I start from in in relation to where Murata currently is?

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>3 years ago they were just introducing Garo
I have wasted my life.

>not HxH
Eh?

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>both are obviously stealing from Arakawa

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Yeah in spring 2015 was when I caught up, Garo had just appeared a bit, but I stopped when Genos and Saitama were dealing with Fubuki and Sonic.

>obviously stealing an age old trope

wtf? what is happening? what a fucking mess!

>what is irony

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Look at this shit:
myanimelist.net/topmanga.php
Western retards rate OPM in the top 30 best manga EVER. Seriously.

Let's realistically assess what OPM has going for it. It's nominally a comedy manga, but it was never very funny and almost abandoned any attempt to be a gag manga once it started taking its action elements seriously. The fight scenes do not and cannot have tension because the main character is unbeatable. There are basically no well developed characters, close bonds between characters, or even any real basis to be emotionally affected by what happens. It's like a kid smashing action figures against each other under one rushed premise after another.

OPM is not good in any respect. Like other terrible battle shounen that have taken off, it succeeded by throwing a ton of neat character designs at readers and making them wonder what each characters' power is. It spread to morons inexperienced with anime because le bald overpowered man has potential for memes and reaction images.

One Punch Man is excruciatingly mediocre, and anybody who's read it alongside other battle shounen would agree. It doesn't deserve a tenth of its popularity, and its success proves that mediocrity is good enough as long as a show doesn't take itself seriously.

Textbook example of the kind of delusion we're dealing with.

While all of that is true, it's drawn pretty well and is not even half as annoying as something like HxH, so there's that.

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>the fight scenes do not and cannot have tension because the MC is unbeatable
This is the most retarded argument I've ever seen, Saitama isnt even around for 90% of the fights.

Is this pasta actually?

Explain what annoys you about Hunter X Hunter. HXH certainly isn't perfect but it has actual themes, trope subversion, and character development here and there, so I would put it miles ahead of OPM.

OPM is unironically on par with Bleach.

Berserk is the most overrated by far. No one can say they dislike it without being shat on by everyone. I mean, it's good, but it isn't nearly as good as its fanbase thinks it is.

You clearly don't read OPM, Saitama is basically a side character.

No it's not pasta.
Saitama isn't around because he would kill tension, but his mere background existence makes everything less important. If half of the heroes association was wiped out it wouldn't really matter.

Yea it's odd people read Murata and take everything dead serious.

I'm not up to date with it because it's awful but I did read a fair amount of it. Seeing it blow up with normalfags after the anime came out made me disgusted.

That's a respectable opinion.

OPM is kind of boring until the Boros fight (all the anime). With King and Garou in the picture it becomes a lot better, though the manga still hasn't caught up with how good the webcomic is. If anything the anime is overrated, barely anyone reads the manga compared to that because it became very popular among casual audiences that don't care about the manga.

Okay so because everyone but Saitama can die that means no one else matters. Every character besides Saitama could be wiped out and that would be okay?

Sea King is still the best and most exciting part so far though, as far as Murata has gotten at least.

I stopped reading a little bit after the Boros fight.

If Saitama's less important it's probably gotten less bad, but I'm still skeptical that it's above average as a battle shounen.

DSK was great, but only because of the end. The whole Gouketsu thing and Garou's arc have been better overall, at least in my opinion.

Honestly if every human other than Saitama died the manga might become interesting.

You should read the Garou fight in the webcomic and the events leading up to it, there is tension and the result of the fight is basically that Saitama solves nothing.

OPM is far better than bleach. At the very least, it makes sense and Murata actually put effor in his drawings.

>Explain what annoys you about Hunter X Hunter. HXH certainly isn't perfect but it has actual themes, trope subversion, and character development here and there, so I would put it miles ahead of OPM.
It has a weak story and even weaker characters. It's overarching narative is disjointed and makes no sense. It has no real theme. Gon is especially bland. Nen system is needlessly overocmplicated for no reason without puting any meaningful restrictions on what Togashi can pull out of his ass. It tries hard to be a "fair" and "realistic" shounen story, but we still have Super Sayian Gon, Aluka, Kuropika and O My Rubber Nen. It tries to push very simple teenage-angst-level ideas as something extremely deep and meaningful. The art is sometimes so terrible that I literally can redraw Togashi's page better than he did it himself.

Can we all agree that

I can agree with that.

Up until Boros everything is Saitama all the time. After that the cast expands and for the longest arc Saitama doesn't do anything until the end. I wouldn't say it's for everyone, but it improves a lot and it develops a real story beyond episodic tough enemies that Saitama has to fight.

It's like watching porn, without the bullshit, but with fighting.

You seem to hate HxH not for what it is, but because of what its fanbase thinks it is. How has it ever tried to be fair and realistic? The ants were anything but. All it does is show a different take on how shounen worlds usually work, without a shiny perfect world that perfectly suits the plot.

The overarching narrative was never the point, every arc is very self contained and introduces tons of new ideas that only matter there. And how is nen overcomplicated? At most there's been some needlessly wordy explanations in the last arc, but before it was pretty straightforward.

Hunter x Hunter is garbage

youtube.com/watch?v=O6fzizDiEnQ

>How has it ever tried to be fair and realistic?
The whole Nen system with sacrifices and an intelocked powers pattern. Gon losing a lot. The whole story being kinda cynical.

>The overarching narrative was never the point
And that's what kills the story of HxH. Separate arcs are too disjointed in their themes, plots and general nature to be consistently interesting and because of lack of focus on any overarching narrative there's also no sense of progression in the story or meaning behind the events. Things just happen. The problem is that things happening without anything glueing them together in a meaningful way is not interesting or engaging in any way.

>so we can all agree
>we all
>we
(you)*

>And how is nen overcomplicated?
All the nen-ten-swen-glen and hadoukens, the interlocked system of different specializations that that doesn't stop Togashi from pulling off whatever he needs or wants.

it's the only thing that people use to defend super

What are you talking about? Super is fucking trash compared to the manga for one reason alone, Goku's characterization.

It gets old really fast and like most comedies the main character is the least likeable and interesting character.

>Gon is especially bland
Gon is one of the better protagonists in shounen manga. Honestly I would only put the MC from Shaman King over him. Also the archive's search back end is unavailable and I wanted to copy paste in reply to this so fuck you cocksucker.

Gon is the fulfillment of Goku's character potential. The basic ingredients- raised in the wilderness, headstrong, unrealistically innocent- are all there. The difference between Gon and Goku is that Gon is innocent and simple minded to the point of near amorality. He is easily overwhelmed by enthusiasm or negative emotions in ways that make him abandon ethical considerations. There's a reason Killua thought Gon would befriend him despite murdering people, Meleoreon said Gon was the least human-like of humans, and Wing was afraid that teaching Gon nen might have been creating a monster.

>It's overarching narative is disjointed and makes no sense. It has no real theme
Individual arcs do have themes and narratives. The narrative hops between a handful of characters, but that's not necessarily unforgivable.

Hunter X Hunter does have asspulls and lesser arcs, but it's a series loved for its best moments. Certain parts of certain arcs are extraordinarily inventive, emotional, and well executed.

>It tries to push very simple teenage-angst-level ideas as something extremely deep and meaningful
Vague.

>The art is sometimes so terrible that I literally can redraw Togashi's page better than he did it himself.
True and a problem with the manga. Nobody would deny this.

this is just like your opinion dude

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Gon loses a lot because he's a damn child, but he's still a pre-teen that can easily get a Hunter license and learn nen in a week. The whole point is that no matter how talented he is, he won't be beating the strongest fighter with guts alone. I guess I can see what you mean by that, but I enjoy that it takes usual shounen tropes but shows them in a completely different way than usual. The trope subversion is what makes it seem realistic, and it kind of is. That's why Gon's super power up came with such consequences, pretty much erasing Gon from the story, even if he survived. In the same vein, Nanika can grant wishes, but what she asks in return is what differentiates these wishes from the rest (yeah, Killua getting freebies is dumb).

>The problem is that things happening without anything glueing them together in a meaningful way is not interesting or engaging in any way.
I can see why you'd think that, but I really like it. Obviously not every series will cater to everyone. I think that overall the story in HxH is its world and Hunters in general, even if sometimes some characters stop appearing for long stretches.

> nen-ten-swen-glen
They are all monosylables. And from context you can tell what they are, they are just something that wouldn't be named in most other series. The nen system isn't supposed to restrict what you can and you can't do, it's a classification of what people do with it, that's why it's some vague in some categories.

>there's also no sense of progression in the story or meaning behind the events
This is bullshit.

When Gon yelled at Killua and was threatening to kill Pitou there's good characterization behind why Killua felt the way he did about it, and that characterization traced back to the hunter exam. Up until the world tree everything in HXH can be spun as the story of Gon finding his father. It's true that after that the story has changed focus in a way that has lost the main thread of the earlier parts, but there's still a lot to get invested in in each individual arc.

Meruem was a villain contained to one arc. His development was undeniably quite good. It's bullshit to say his story isn't affecting because it's just a detour in a broader, more disconnected plot. There is nothing wrong with smaller stories set in a larger continuity.

End of conversation

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>Gon is the fulfillment of Goku's character potential
That's not a character, that's a personality or an archetype (as usual with shounens, the archetype of a fool). And the funny thing, he's not even that unique. I.e. Luffy is also the same kind of an immoral fool, who befriends criminals or declines helping others if doesn't have a personal reason. The difference between them is that luffy is actually a character: he's grounded in something real. He has very strong likes and dislikes, he has quirks, and they affect his actions. He's not just an archetype. Gon kinda lacks most of those things. I've read the manga till almost the very end of CA arc, and the only two things I remember about Gon is that he likes his dad (thank god, or we would need some other explainantion for why in the world is he looking for him) and, maybe, fishing. And that's fucking all. And, yeah, Luffy is not even that complex of a character, but Gon is so much much worse than that.

>Individual arcs do have themes and narratives.
Sure, and they are disjointed on a global level. That's the problem. It makes the overall story lacking a direction, and if you don't like the current arc, there's no real reason to read on.

>Vague.
Ant angst

>Hunter X Hunter does have asspulls
Oh, please.
>It tries hard to be a "fair" and "realistic" shounen story, but we still have Super Sayian Gon, Aluka, Kuropika and O My Rubber Nen

>They are all monosylables. And from context you can tell what they are, they are just something that wouldn't be named in most other series. The nen system isn't supposed to restrict what you can and you can't do, it's a classification of what people do with it, that's why it's some vague in some categories.
That's why I called it overcomplicated. It's really complex for describing some stuff that doesn't even affect anything.

>I've read the manga till almost the very end of CA arc
>, but we still have Super Sayian Gon, Aluka, Kuropika and O My Rubber Nen
So you are literally complaining about stuff you haven't read? You can't really use that as an argument. Besides all of those except Alluka make perfect sense with the boundaries set by the series up until that point.

But it's not complicated is what I'm saying. It's very simple, only it's wordy.

>but there's still a lot to get invested in in each individual arc
That's your personal taste. I dislike a lot of HxH arcs and have to grind through them. And whenb I find out that there's no progression towards anything in the end, I feel cheated.

>His development was undeniably quite good.
Only because no-one else has anything close to comples development. Meruem is by nature an angsty teenager with superpowers.

Sure I can. Why can't I? I know what happened and I know how it happened.

It is complicated for a purpose it serves. And yes, it is really wordy for no decent reason.

>Meruem is by nature an angsty teenager with superpowers.
You understand his character that way because you are literally too stupid to appreciate a manga for thirteen year old Japanese boys.

Consider when Meruem loses to Komugi for a while and asks for her name, and then she answers and asks for his name, and then he realizes he's never even thought he might have one. Why do you think that happened?

>I know what happened and I know how it happened.
You get a biased vision of people that complain about it. Do you really think you get the full story this way? Even if you read an unbiased summary, that's won't give you all the information. And it's still a dumb argument, you are saying why YOU didn't like HxH and think it's overrated.
>it is really wordy for no decent reason.
Because without it Togashi couldn't do simple dialogue about it. Think of how many times they talk about using Zetsu, Hatsu or Gyo. The alternative would be that everytime they refered to it as "supressing their aura", "nen special ability" and "concentrating his aura in X", which would only make it more wordy and complicated, and make no sense in-universe as to why there isn't a specific term.

>You understand his character that way because you are literally too stupid to appreciate a manga for thirteen year old Japanese boys.
>Consider when Meruem loses to Komugi for a while and asks for her name, and then she answers and asks for his name, and then he realizes he's never even thought he might have one. Why do you think that happened?
Oh please, sempai, educate me on this topic

Gon, unlike Luffy, spirals into consummate rage that completely dehumanizes him, makes him hurt his best friend, and nearly leads him to kill his enemy while his enemy is saving somebody's life.

>Western retards rate OPM in the top 30 best manga EVER. Seriously.
And Made in Abyss is at 7. Fucking Koe no Katachi is at 21
Can you go be mad somewhere else you're acting like a huge retard.

>You get a biased vision of people that complain about it.
>Even if you read an unbiased summary, that's won't give you all the information.
So, I need to read the version biased towards HxH. Okay. Can you provide me with one?

>Because without it Togashi couldn't do simple dialogue about it. Think of how many times they talk about using Zetsu, Hatsu or Gyo. The alternative would be that everytime they refered to it as "supressing their aura", "nen special ability" and "concentrating his aura in X", which would only make it more wordy and complicated, and make no sense in-universe as to why there isn't a specific term.
I honestly see no problem with supressing an aura. It's easier to understand and we lose almost nothing in the process. It's much better than finding yourself in the middle of a dialogue forgetting what in the hell is hatsu.

Okay. And? How does it makes him a better character? It makes him aslightly different archetype, that's all.

For the first time in his life Meruem meets somebody who surpasses him in some respect.
Up until this point Meruem had not considered the perspective or sentience of anybody else. The world and everything in it was something that pushed back when he pressed against it.
When he asks Komugi's name, he's demonstrating an individual interest in another person and a desire to communicate with them. He is acknowledging Komugi's existence and interiority as something worth recognizing.
When Komugi asks for his name, he understands that other people have an independent conception of him. He becomes concerned with what he seems like and how he appears, what you call him.

In that conversation, Meruem developed self concept by recognizing the value of somebody else in the world. You failed to understand that and dismissed it as "teenage angst" because you are a stupid and dismissive person.

>So, I need to read the version biased towards HxH. Okay. Can you provide me with one?
No, you need to read the manga if you want to argue about it. Do you really not understand why your opinion is less fundamented that the one of someone who has? I can get you don't like it and that's fine, but you can just use what you didn't like from the arcs you didn't like, why go beyond that to territory you don't know? It's not like anyone will take you seriously if you do.

>It's easier to understand and we lose almost nothing in the process
You lose realism (everything is named in martial arts) and charm, both very important in a manga that cares about its world. Everything would gets wordier in an already very wordy manga, and you would get more confusion because of similar techniques, leading to the need of more explanations and words all the time (Ren vs En vs Ten vs Ken, Ryu vs Gyo).

>le flashy lights you don't even know what is happening in that 5 fps animation
muh good animation kek

It's a new take on how a hot headed protagonist would react in those situations. We always see them being noble and understanding, but that's just a weird trope, Gon's behaviour makes perfect sense with what we'd seen from him before. And that makes him interesting, because we thought we knew all there was to his character, but put to pressure he showed his true colors.

Those 2 are actually good and deserves praise unlike OPM.

Gon isn't a use of the Goku archetype, he's a commentary on it. This sounds pretentious and vacuous but Gon's character explores what separates humans from animals.

this

Okay, great. Now you convinced me that he's not an angsty teen with superpowers, but an angsty pre-teen with superpowers. Right on that stage when a kid stops being a sociopathic monster and starts understanding socialization.

>No, you need to read the manga if you want to argue about it
No I don't. You try to push on me some kind of authority of a source or someone beong knowledgeable of that source, but right now you're not using that knowledge in any way to provide any counter-narrative to mine. And if that's the case I really have no desire to continue reading a story that I quite honestly dislike.

>You lose realism
No, no, no. We don't lose realism. We lose an illusion of realism. If it was true realism, the whole system would be based around some actual restrictions in the Nen system.

> Everything would gets wordier in an already very wordy manga, and you would get more confusion because of similar techniques
Believe, I'm already confused enough with what I still remember. I'd probably be better off if it were explained in plain english and not in some random terms I have to remember and double-check occasionally.

It's so new, we had in the Epic of Gilgamesh , 2100 BC with the character of Enkidu.

I'm really no idea what in the world are you talking about.

BnHA gets shit on all the time. Even its fans frequently apologize for it and say things like "I just like the character designs and I'm a shipper."

Meanwhile you have retards calling OPM a deconstruction.

>And if that's the case I really have no desire to continue reading a story that I quite honestly dislike.
This is perfectly fine, don't read it if you don't want to. But don't act like you've read it, you are arguing from a position of ignorance because you don't know all the details. I've been arguing with you with real arguments, but you haven't responded to them.

>Believe, I'm already confused enough with what I still remember. I'd probably be better off if it were explained in plain english and not in some random terms I have to remember and double-check occasionally.
If you think it was complex then, just leave the series man. Only the latest arc has gotten really heavy on dialogue and exposition. You already know the series isn't for you, HxH sucks if you don't care enough to learn the concepts.

Are you trying to meme me?

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What's his plan?

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read the webcomic

He'll figure it out.

Enkidu is:
>barely a character, the tablets are short and have no exposition
>a beast man tamed by a whore
>not a sociopath
>literally just born
>not a battle shounen MC
Gon isn't a new character to literature, he's a new take on the shounen MC archetype. Of course you can make comparisons to older characters, but they don't play with the same tropes as most shounen and turn them on their heads.

I really don't know why Enkidu is the first thing to pop in your mind.

Made in Abyss is good but it certainly doesn't deserve that spot.
Koe no Katachi is legit just ok and anyone who thinks it deserves to be that high should be gassed.

>This is perfectly fine, don't read it if you don't want to. But don't act like you've read it, you are arguing from a position of ignorance because you don't know all the details. I've been arguing with you with real arguments, but you haven't responded to them.
No, no, no. I'm not arguing from position of ignorance. It's you who's arguing from a position of supposed knowledge without using said knowledge in any way. So, you're saying I don't know something about the manga, that you do. Well, why don't you tell me what exactly that is. All you're doing now is telling me how I'm wrong because of some tangential reasons without actually showing that I am.

>If you think it was complex then, just leave the series man.
That's what I did. And not because of the Nen system. It's just that the story itself is so boring. The only thing I really enjoyed was the YN arc.

What's your native tongue? Did you have to read Gilgamesh in school? I'm curious.

>but an angsty pre-teen with superpowers
His character arc is about being born nearly omnipotent and gradually developing empathy for other people. A lot more thought was put into him than "let's make him an angsty teenager", and if you're going to criticize him do it honestly.

Are you telling me a shitty drawn version and unpolished writing is better?

>the most overrated manga of all time

That would be the HxH

since the manga hasn't gotten there yet yeah
also panneling

>Enkidu is:
He is also mesopotamian, that's not a meaningful difference.

>not a sociopath
Neither is Gon.

>Gon isn't a new character to literature, he's a new take on the shounen MC archetype
Maybe. He's still a pretty bland character though.

>I really don't know why Enkidu is the first thing to pop in your mind.
He's the same passion-driven character that Gon and most of shounen protags are. What you're calling sociopathy here is just a very male tendency to focus on one thing and ignore all the others, especially when affected by strong emotions.

>His character arc is about being born nearly omnipotent and gradually developing empathy for other people. A lot more thought was put into him than "let's make him an angsty teenager", and if you're going to criticize him do it honestly.
I've no idea how many thought has been put into him, but he is literally a pre-teen with superpowers.

>What's your native tongue? Did you have to read Gilgamesh in school? I'm curious.
Russian; I don't remember. Are you asking because of how I structure my sentences?

NO, now shove shards of broken glass up your anus until you bleed to death.

THIS.

why? because you said so? I like OPM.