Dragon Ball Super

The power levels on Super are all over the place. Just how strong is 17?

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I say he is around SSG maybe half a SSB.

>Vegeta genocides races and planets all the time
>saves the universe and earth
>he's a good boy who dinnin do nuthun wrong

>Frieza does the same
>he saves the fucking multiverse
>oh my god why didn't goku and vegeta kill this sonofabitch the first chance they got after whis revived him!

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Did based MSPaint user ever make a pic for the finale? It's the only reason why I'm still in these threads.

He was weaker then Base toppo, there is like three epiosdes of him being helpless against him.

Also was trapped in the pretty black hole which SSB goku no sold


First 17 sneak attack on Jiren was useless. And he could get close because he was fighting along with Goku/Vegeta/Frieza,

The second was great because Jiren almost over after Goku blanco fight and Golden Frieza beating.

17 survive because tactics and because he is smart. Just like Piccolo Koing Mistic Gohan with tactics, and nobody said Piccolo was SSG tier.

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17 has the strength of super saiyan god

17 and Jobhan were having difficulty in a 2v1 against Toppo, so weaker than Toppo and probably weaker than at least Frieza and Dyspo levels. But in the last episode everyone is supposed to be beat as shit so its not really as accurate that last fight imo.
>The power levels on Super are all over the place
as per usual for dragon ball

>Tfw Jiren won both physically and psychologically

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Manga says he SSJ3 tier.........toei was just fucking lazy to animate SSJ3 goku so they had him spar 17 as blue.

Kys you stupid fuck hating Gohan is a meme

Power scaling stopped during the Cell saga. From then on fights have been decided on control over ki, with some exceptions. That's why the Buu saga had to rely on so much fusion bullshit, power levels reached their limit and haven't increased significantly since.

Lmao did we watch the same episode, fag?

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I wonder how anally devastated Vegetafags are

why is Gohan so weak? Isn't he supposed to me Mystic level or some shit

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Yes and Jiren owned those monkeys, lizards and robots

The difference is that Vegeta had a genuine change of heart, however gradual. He now genuinely cares about the safety of the Earth, his friends, his family, and the Universe, and is prepared to die if need be to protect them. He's still flawed, but he actually gives a shit.

At no point has Frieza even feigned such characteristics. From the word go he was out for himself, was fully prepared to betray his Universe and everyone in it, and even after getting resurrected still gleefully proclaimed his malice.

Jiren was doing amazingly well after having the shit kicked out of him by Goku. It almost showed that even when roughed up that bad, he's still on another level of power.

The thing to understand about 17 is that him and 18 never get tired. He can get the crap kicked out of him and possibly take enough damage to break, but he doesn't get tired. Since no one ever landed a decisive hit on him, he just kept on going at 100%. All we know about his 100% so far is that it keeps up with Goku's SSJB some how. It would be nice if they gave us a real answer to how he powered up so much.

So he is SSG/Half a SSB? I mean he can hit hard enough to damage Jiren, not everyone can do that. Remember SSG was the moment Jiren had to start blocking, even if it was just 1 finger.

SSB-tier minimum.

Base Toppo is confirmed by Goku at the exhibition match to be on-par with him in kaioken since Goku didn't know if he could win when Toppo pulled out his aura.

Toppo used his max power just to try and push 17 out of the ring.

SSB-tier starts at RoF character who are weak as hell compared to the ToP brand.

Anyone who mentions 17's fight against Toppo will probably ignore that 17's beam was able to hold it's own against Toppo before Freeza bailed him out. There's no way 17 could manage this if he was anything below SSB. The difference between SSB and SSG alone is hilariously huge. We're given three pieces of evidence for this based on SSG Goku vs Dyspo, SSG-SSB Goku against Jiren, and SSG-SSB against Base and SSJ Kefla.

17 has other powerful moves that involve suicide or at least self-harm attempts. One able to overpower a near full-power Jiren's blasts and the other strong enough to blow his shields up. His shields couldn't be broken by Base Toppo or Aniraza who could match at least 2 SSBs, GF. Gohan and 17 himself. 17 managed to survive his self-destruct the same way Vegeta survived Final explosion, Suggesting his power-level/durability is top Blue-tier or above. Further supported by how 17 tanked hits Jiren aimed at SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK20 Goku.

Anyone who says 17 isn't Blue level is downplaying. While he has low-end showings, his high-end ones towards the end of the tournament are more numerous and stupidly impressive. Just because you fight smart doesn't mean you lack power. 17 was constantly up against the strongest of the SSB class and performed more efficiently than anything sub-blue character could dream of doing.

They quite literally explained to intelligence level of children that the reason 17 and Frieza are able to challenge Jiren is because he'd been weakened so much.

..or are you trolling? Damn it, you're trolling, I should know this but I already typed it.. and now I'm still typing this...

this would look so shit if it was SSB goku and golden frieza

Jiren was already fucked up after getting his face beat in by MUI Goku. The Jiren they beat was probably like 20% capacity or less, he was utterly fucked.

Based 17 truly saved this shitshow. I hope Ultra doesn't forget about him

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Jiren was also tired from dealing from Goku's nonesense which was why Frieza did better against him

>Since no one ever landed a decisive hit on him
Jiren hit him several times

>Jirencuck in this much denial

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The show goes out of its way to. Establish that 17 is immediately on par with ssb when gokus first recruits him.

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>He was weaker then Base toppo
>Also was trapped in the pretty black hole which SSB goku no sold

And yet he ment right through Anirasa's attack which was overpowering 5 Blue level fighters.
He was also, dodging attacks from and clashing fists with a powered up Jiren far stronger than God Toppo. And he even took hits meant for SSBKK Goku and SSBE Vegeta.
Consistently performed in the same level as SSJB KK Goku and SSJBE Vegetta and he even blocked Jiren's most powerful attack up to that moment for enough time to talk with Goku for a few moments and he even completely nullified it with a self destruct attack which he survived.

I mean it's not consistent, but there is no way you can't argue 17 isn't at least some degree of SSJBKK level, maybe SSJBKK x10. At a minimum.

What possibly makes you think this? He's probably never going to show up in the anime again.

>Base Toppo is confirmed by Goku at the exhibition match to be on-par with him in kaioken
Toppo got his ass beaten by regular SSB. It was only when he got full serious and did that dab that he got maybe to SSB Kaioken level. 17 was helpless against the Pretty Black Hole too.

Just not hard enough to penetrate the plot armor.

>Talks shit about Jiren
>Posts Jiren owning the universe of jobbers

He went through it using his OP shield........it's not like he over powered it

Still waiting on the webM of Universe 11 being erased

I'm talking about Vegeta/Goku/17 vs Jiren. He is SSG or beyond, I'm sure of that.

>he was utterly fucked.
You say that, but it took Goku and Frieza everything just to kamikaze push him out the ring

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Kale was SSB tier too, until we found out Goku was holding back. Then we learned Kale was a little weaker than a tired SSG.

>It was only when he got full serious and did that dab that he got maybe to SSB Kaioken level.

That's the level he was using against 17's beam, because he precisely said he was going to use all his power, and he still couldn't win immediately. 17 held out long enough for Freeza to come to his aid. No non-Blue is pulling that off.

>17 was helpless against the Pretty Black Hole too.

And has several more impressive feats than shit on that. It's not consistent, but it's what we've got. He was shown having trouble with Ribrianne initially too. Turns out he'd stomp her shit into the ground later on.

Everybody thought that too before Black Arc wasn't even a thing, but the moment the first artwork made by Toriyama of him returning blown that out the the water. As Long as their is money he can keep on returning as long as it makes money.

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This series was not kind to furfags

as it should be

Even an utterly fucked Jiren is still unreasonably powerful. He was probably slightly above SSB level which is why it took base Goku and base Frieza everything they had and also why 17, who was still at 100% capacity, could tangle with him.

Frieza won since he will outlive every mortal in U7 that can kill him.

It’s not the powerlevels, it’s the fact that none of the u7 people know how the fuck to knock them off the stage. That and unlimited stamina.

toei over useses blue

-kale also was shown over powering blue but later she got wrecked by SSG goku

Sooo....goku using blue against 17 means dick. We seen 17 helpless against base toppo

We seen 17 trapped in the pretty black hole goku blue no sold

We just seen in the latest episode goku tell 17 to stay back and let him and freeza battle jiren

I'm latest episode 17 comments on freeza's and jirens power.

17 is gohan tier tops.....

Going through the energy all means 17's shield would have to withstand 100% of the energy. You ain't going through an incinerator and not
burning the hell up.

>Holding back

More like Toei retconned it after giving Kale stupid hype. Toppo was constantly amazed by her and even Jiren felt he had to step in.

I bet Toyotaro will put someone else instead of 17 on the top 3. Most likely the layout for the arc was goku/Frieza at the end, the thirds one was up to producers.

>7, who was still at 100% capacity
17 wasn't at 100%, he sustained more damage than Goku did. Goku even comments on it.

Infinite stamina doesn't mean the body can't break down and 17 was said to have been fighting well past his limits like Goku and Freeza.

17 was not at 100%.
He was clearly weakened from all the near-suicide attacks he kept doing.

Just because he has infinite energy, doesn't mean he can always utilise it at 1000% capacity. Injury would stop him being as effective.

So he got a desperation boost. No biggie, everyone in Dragon Ball has gotten one of those.

Lmao....we seen 17's shield stand up to attacks from full power jiren and GoD toppo.

His barrier is the only thing that keeps him from being fodder. 17 himself is less then goku, vegeta, freeza, toppo, and jiren

17 was holding back against Toppo. He never used multiple barriers, bombs or his self-destruct.

And Toppo didn't even prove he could break 17's barrier or damage him and we KNOW Toppo was going all out in that fight.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna miss it.

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Are you pretending to be a retard now? Jiren completely gave up before Toppo gave his gay little speech. And after the fight, Jiren converted to Goku's harem of former antagonists. He now believes in the power of friendship, meaning he failed to maintain the belief system he held prior to fighting Goku. Ergo, it's not a psychological victory, it's a loss. Physically too, since he got eliminated.

Based Droid

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RiBrianne broke 17's barriers. Toppo should be able to as well.

UI Goku

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That's all you have to add faggot.....

>Lmao....we seen 17's shield stand up to attacks from full power jiren and GoD toppo.
>His barrier is the only thing that keeps him from being fodder.
His barriers were broken by Jiren's attack at the end pf 127 but his self-destruct nullified it. He survived his own self-destruct as shown last week so his durability is up there. This week, he blew up his own shields so we know his offense is up there too.

17 when going Kamikaze is stupid strong.

>I mean it's not consistent, but there is no way you can't argue 17 isn't at least some degree of SSJBKK level, maybe SSJBKK x10. At a minimum.
You're a deluded retard. Jiren swatted away 17 like a fly in the last episode while Frieza could hold his own. Same with Goku. He was reduced to being a backup player because he couldn't handle Jiren on his own. To call him SSBKK level is pure characterfag delusion at its finest.

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Ribrianne broke it. Then failed to break it with her strongest attack. Same with Anilaza who is stronger than 5 SSBs

Holding back against toppo? He was on the verge of getting ringed out in that beam battle with toppo of freeza didn't step in. Stupid ass 17 fag

Holding back?

He was injured after self-destructing, tard. Goku said it. Hell, prior to this he was knocked out for 3 episodes. Infinite stamina doesn't make you invincible.

This 17fag is retarded.

>17 was holding back against Toppo.
Nice headcanon. Are Cuckdroidfags the new Gohanfags? Everything they say is fanfiction.

Ribrianne couldn't beat base Goku. 17 was clearly sandbagging against Ribrianne and Toppo.

>only forms that matter
fite me

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So I just started following Super in the towards the middle of tournament of power so what’s the power rankings then?


Is that right or did I fuck up somewhere?

>multiple barriers, bombs or his self-destruct.

Did he use any of the above against Toppo?

No? Then shut the fuck up.

You're a fucking retard

Thanks m8

Toppo is a good character. I feel bad that he mostly gets shit on

Characters who are as popular as Trunks or Frieza (who came back twice, by the way) can always come back. Never say never when it comes to things like this.

How did Jiren attain his power with no warriors in his entire universe capable of coming even close to his power?

The only reason the U7 people got so strong is because they were forced to. Goku had to fight a fucking GoD to reach his level and Jiren still BTFO him and everyone else

>another SS
>shitty-looking worthless jobber SS
Bad taste

>no pissed off gohan
>just jobhan

Can the manga fix this?

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Everyone was fucking injured at that point, moron. Goku was, Frieza was, Jiren was. 17 isn't special for having any fatigue.

>SSG fought Beerus competently
>Ultimate Gohan jobbed pathetically without landing a single hit
Are all Gohanfags stupid?

Sandbagging against toppo?! he was about to fucking lose in the beam battle......he got completely overpowered. Freeza saved his ass

user. You're forgetting about one person...

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How powerful would Beyond Blue Ultra Instinct Vegito be?

Who knows what tough enemies fought in his universe. Being a pride trooper guaranteed he'd face a lot of opponents anyway.

People on the dragon ball universes achieve. Power through either training or massive amounts of autism. Jiren didnt have rivals, so he must be the most autistic faggot in the multiverse.

Did any of those 3 literally try to blow themselves up and survive on account of a fluke? Or do you think because they're all exhausted, that they must be exhausted equally?

Goku doesn't seem to think so, because he says 17's worse off than him. As if that wasn't common sense after he just nuked himself twice.

Gohan was stronger in ToP

Is Jiren's inability to form emotional connections with others a form of autism?

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How many languages does El Hermano know?

toppo had him shook and almost took him out untill freeza showed up. 17 and gohan were helpless against base toppo just remember that faggot

Well SSB is confirmed stronger than SSG right? And Mystic Gohan held his own against SSBKK Goku while they sparred or whatever so I assume he’s not as strong as SSB but definitely above SS3

I Wonder How F. Trunks would preform in the tournament of power.
>He was giving SSRose Goku Black quite a bit of trouble as a SS2 even before attending SSRage

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I don't care what you have to say, the Frieza Goku tag team was off the hook, especially with Goku flinging Frieza straight into Jiren. I wonder how much Frieza will train just to try to get over Goku and Vegeta.

>And Mystic Gohan held his own against SSBKK Goku
No he didn't, he got knocked the fuck out in one punch after fighting SSB for like 3 seconds.
>but definitely above SS3
He's always been above SS3, but the gap between SS3 and SSG is fucking gigantic.

He can call Jiren a dimit in over 137 different ways


>17fag claiming 17 is the stronkest
>"good grief, they're tough ones"
>said by 17 as Golden Frieza and Jiren fought after slapping aside 17 like an ant
Tired Jiren=Tired Golden Frieza>SS Goku>Final Form Frieza>17>Base Goku

>Did any of those 3 literally try to blow themselves up and survive on account of a fluke?
Did 17 take a Hakai ball to the face? Did 17's body have a complete meltdown because it couldn't handle the immense power of a new form? Did 17 get the shit kicked out of him by MUI?

And no, he doesn't say 17 is worse off than him. He just says "Look who's talkin', No. 17." That's literally all he says.

Again, 17 isn't special. Every single remaining participant was completely drained and fatigued. He was no worse off than anyone else.