Why did it flopped so badly?

Why did it flopped so badly?

4500 players on Steam right now.

BR?

Designed from the ground up to be a quick cash grab, as most MMOs are these days.

Because it's literally what. Considering that, it's doing pretty good.

It had too much thought on classes and art design to be your generic Korean MMO, hence the absurd hype. A shame it inevitably went through this path though

Funny complaint I heard when it came out was how a lot of class combos were 'useless'.

Like, no shit. Some of the classes were underpowered in RO as well.

>go to zone
>kill 20 enemies
>repeat x10 for exp tickets
>level up
>rinse and repeat

That's pretty much how RO was, though. Just go around and mindlessly kill shit for hours on end.

Too laggy, buggy, unbalanced and boring at release.

RO wasn't linear as fuck.

when i think about it, ro really fucking sucked

I remember when there were no Eden quest shit in RO I we just camped GH prison or High Orcs until 99

It tried to not be a themepark MMO but then it flopped heavily when people realize that any MMO that's not a themepark today flops hard or appeals a niche audience and that's not enough to sustain itself.

I don't recall there being too much choice in RO either, besides there being an open world where you can choose to get your ass kicked by monsters that are a way higher level than you, I suppose.

>I don't recall there being too much choice in RO either
Obviously, since you never played it.

I've played it but I honestly can't remember much beyond farming a single enemy for hours on end to get card drops. What kind of choices were there?

You got to pick which city you started in out of 3 I think?

The game was developed with no real goal. It was like they were throwing in ideas without much long term thought about them. Most F2P MMOs love doing this shit because they want to profit as much as possible and take little player feedback as possible rather than make a quality game based around the players feedback.

>Entire game built on an engine that literally cannot use multiple cores, runs at 15 fps if more than 3 objects are on screen
>Entirely made in lua, the whole game is exploitable on clientside, leading to bugs
>Separated BRs, Russians, Europeans, Pinoys each to their own servers. Ethnical clashing and hatred is the best spice for online games, and they got rid of it entirely
>They patched out guild wars entirely because carebears threatened to quit. When they did, all PvPers left, and then the carebears left regardless.
>The game isn't even 1 year old and international servers are 4 months behind on content
>Korean server is dead. The "nobody in main town channel 1" sort of dead
>They made the game with small, linear maps with few spawns, long spawn times, and tried to compensate with several channels per map. MMOs are about sharing common space, but they made it so that everyone could have their own private hunting grounds
>Tiny guilds, nothing for guilds to do
>No balance, PvP modes are ridiculously flawed
>Implement awful player-harassing restrictions in an attempt to stop bots
>Bots aren't stopped, some bots actually become famous because they got reported dozens of times and farmed hundreds of millions of silver before getting banned, after months
>They allow AFK money farming with pet classes, which is actually more farmful than botting
>Whales buy silver and transcend their weapons with +550% atk, effectively making the have several times more damage than an average player
>Literally every content in the game is daily count gated, everything is behind daily chores
>On top of it, everything in the game is Gacha
>Everything that was promised war nerfed, removed, patched, or skewed
>They listened to the Korean playerbase for direction, instead of the internal one(you know, the ones who were hyped for the game)

Just to name a few. It's literally Wasted Potential: The MMO.

The class system is trash, 95% of every skill becomes useless since the only jobs that really matter are the last picks.
Plus the exp curve is broken and if you're not using a guide you WILL find yourself stuck.

you get to dump a boss with 80+ mil health in one of the towns

No one actually likes that kind of gameplay. It's all just nostalgia for when we were retarded children, so it got dropped quickly.

>What kind of choices were there?
A lot? Is open world, the "choices" are more about your class and build and if you are playing solo or your party composition.

>You got to pick which city you started in out of 3 I think?
Out of 6, actually. Prontera and Izlude were basically the same tho.

Ohh yeah forgot about the summoning dealie. That was pretty funny.

That's a blatant lie.
In RO you could level up in different spots and you had a lot of sidequests.

In ToS you are forced to do quests because monsters don't give you any exp neither does dungeons.

Too much grinding with no real good reward behind your grind

Mostly this.

In RO at least there was some good PVP and GVG.

>In RO you could level up in different spots and you had a lot of sidequests.

Didn't that still involve just mindlessly killing shit for hours on end? Unless you had to unlock a class, I think.

It wasn't "quick" though. It was in development for a long time. The devs were just incompetent and greedy. Too bad, since the art is great and there's a ton of potential in the gameplay/classes. It just doesn't have the supporting factors (balance, premium purchase fairness, decent quests and/or open world, etc) to back it up.
Considering how long development was, I wonder if they've lost money.

for me, it's too lag to even play.
everything is delayed as fuck.
immediately uninstalled it.

for me the leveling really killed it for me


you could LITERALLY get stucked in alevel range with almost no way to advance without taking weeks if you dont manage your exp cards and grinding

not only that the horrid HUNDREDS OF QUESTS of the same shit literally kills any motivation to create a new character

Shit servers, Shit community, Chat is being spammed by gold bots, Too much Lag, Developers are faggots.

I can't believe I actually spent 165 hours in, before realizing there's no point and fun in this game.
This also probably applies to like the 95% of MMORPGs today.

Dependind on your job, really.

Priests were trully easy to level up due to Turn Undead, Hunters could farm from a safe distance, same with Bards and the Magician branch, Gunsilngers also fitted that criteria.

The problem was classes that were good on PVP, like the Thief branch, who were not only hard to level up but a wasted spot on every party until they had godlike gear.

Tanks were a slow paced grind, considering that full Devotion Paladins had close to no killing potential whatsoever.

>It tried to not be a themepark MMO
No it didn't. It was a themepark MMO without the rides. Still as linear and devoid of content outside of quests as any other themepark. Unfortunately the quests were ALSO devoid of content.

>Didn't that still involve just mindlessly killing shit for hours on end?
No. In fact most RO quest were about walking around, talking to NPCs and fetching few items all around the world. Most players just followed guides though.

This.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that only because it's a MMO you NEED to do the same quests over and over.

Why having a open world then if the leveling is linear and immutable?

>tfw logged in once a day to get that dagger for my archer or whatever
>finally got it after a month from launch
>quit

This.

was literally so hyped for this game.
been constantly checking updates for the game 1 year before it finally released

so fucking disappointed

Never played it. It got a lot of heavy negative criticism from here. Dodged a bullet.

It could implement the Materia/PoE class+skill system. PoE's progression/end game system would be better too.

But I'm guessing they didn't do anything interesting and it's just like RO grinding but with 50 useless classes

It's probably got good music though

This is closed beta test knowledge, it doesn't happen anymore. After people started crying because, by golly you had to grind monsters for DAYS just to get past a small EXP Wall, they said it was flawed, ridiculous, and broken. Obviously, those people have no idea what MMOs are, as if days of grinding was somehow absurd.

So they added more cards, enough that you could get to max level just by grinding for a couple days, but that wasn't enough. So they added more quests, including easy repeatables but people still didn't accept it. So they added more dungeons, but people still thought it wasn't enough. Then they started giving out EXP tomes with ridiculous stacking effect, and that wasn't enough.

Right now, there's enough cards and quests to go from 1 to max without grinding. On top of it, all dungeons and missions are on permanent 2x EXP, you have 400% EXP tomes that don't count down while you're in town, and dungeons themselves were massively buffed.

Absolutely everything in the game that was even remotely difficult and required planning was casualized to the extreme. New players are being allowed to rush to max level in a few days only, just to find out that there isn't really any endgame content of any kind, whatsoever. Just daily chores so you accumulate transcendence stones, which you need several hundreds/thousands in order to get a fully transcended weapon with 5000~7000 attack or something. Note: The strongest weapons in the game have like 400~500 attack.

They destroyed the game.

>Sell it as the "Spiritual RO successor."
>I'ts nothing like RO


Why do companies toy with the nostalgia of old players?

If you are going to do something do it properly and do not try to sell a unfinished grindfest like the masterpiece that was RO.

It couldn't compete with FFXIV

Fucking bullshit.
Try levelling your first character and burn all the quest cards as you get them, see what happens.
You will still get stuck.

>It's a "Millenials ruin another game because they don't really know what a MMO is" episode.

The damage that Blizzard has done with the WoW expansions to the MMO genre is unbelievable.

>been constantly checking updates for the game 1 year before it finally released
I can say the same. It was the last time I was expecting something from a MMORPG.

Oh. Well that sounds lame.

That's true. I recall playing a priest and really only having 1 option to level.

I don't think fetch quests are in high regard, either.

MMOs are a flawed genre at their core. Very little industry expertise out there, vastly expensive and risky to develop for, and you have to deal with one of the most autistic crowd of people out there that want to grind the same shit for years on end.

Are you me?
>Been playing RO since I was 10 due to my cousin hosting a server
>Grow with it
>Make a lot of friends
>Suddenly the server closes
>Jump from one server to another
>It's not the same.jpg
>ToS comes up
>Get hyped to the point I check the news page everyday
>Buy the game
>It's a pile of shit

And there goes my hope for a MMO being good ever again.

>Play CBT2
>Bugs out of the ass, lag is unbearable,and BRs are BRs, but still had fun with my sadhu, and the lithuanian mythology thing is interesting, the game could be good if it got one more year of polishing.
>KOBT and release get announced before CBT ends.
>Western release comes with the same bugs CBT had and Sadhu nerfed to the fucking ground.

Isn't this shit F2P? Nothing good ever comes from a F2P MMO.

At least with WoW and FFXIV you pay for quality and that's the reason why they have hundreds of thousands of active players while F2P MMO trash struggles just to have 5k players.

Both of those games have cash shops, and they're both shit too.

As someone who's made several max level characters, has been playing since closed betas and only quit recently, and literally wrote guides for the game, I'll tell you: You're doing something wrong.

There is so many fucking aids right now that you could skip every non-main quest up until level 90 and have no trouble doing anything. After Lv90 you have to do every quest on the map, you just gotta make sure you don't eat so many cards that it would put you 10 levels over the current map that you're questing.

Depending on how many dungeons and/or missions you ran, you might actually run out before the 186 exp wall. If that happens, one or two days of running the exp dungeons wil lclear it for you, or you can ask any of the dozens of AFK silver farmers to party you and leech their EXP. One night and you'll have more than you need, IF it comes to that.

A game with as much grind as early 2000s MMOs cannot survive nowdays, not by any measure. People and games have changed. Still, grinding for several days in order to get past a difficult EXP Wall is hardly unaceptable game design. No matter how hard it was, in ToS you never actually had to grind more than 90 minutes for a full level. Most times, you'd get more than one level per hours.

(1/2)

The major difference is that those cash shops are optional cosmetics while F2P shit love to sell "premium bonuses" and other P2W shit.

I wish I was this smart.

If they are shit why are they so successful? If people thought it was shit then nobody would buy it.

>Korean
Found your problem.

>he never played RO
Don't talk about MMORPGs ever again.

Nobody ever talks about MMORPGs anymore, that's why the genre is dead.

MOBAs and other online games fill the same purpose MMOs do except they take much less time and money investment.

>you'd get more than one level per hours.
that's the thing that irks
in a game thats supposedly go to lvl 400

sure for you since you've made several max characters you understand how the leveling process works

but for others they wont understand that

they wont understand that at lvl 90 youre suppose to save exp cards and grind the dungeons for a bit

or they should save up cards for the 186 exp wall unless they put in the time to research first on how they should be leveling

>runs on 1 core
>1 FPS when fighting world bosses with more than 4 people on the map
>cash shop items everywhere
>unbalanced classes
>useless equip
>no free stat or class reset when all classes are not released yet
>developers dont want to update the global servers because ktos players demanded it

Optional cosmetics are still things you should be able to get in-game with a subscription game. Why do people make an exception for cosmetics?

Both WoW and FFXIV have lost a severe number of players. The ones left now just don't know how to quit. They've invested too much time.

(2/2)


The difficulty and grind on the game during closed beta tests was actually perfect, the problem is that the MMO playerbase is too used to having instant gratification and would not have any of it. There were literally hundreds of mistake in the direction this game took, but I can say with confidence that the top two things IMC did was:

>Listening and catering to the preferences of the Koreana playerbase. The game Korea wanted was very different from what it was promised to foreigners. In the end, Koreans jumped ship to any of the dozen other MMOs that launched the same months and we're left with a dead game

>Listening to lowest common denominators in forums, people who hop MMOs regardless of what you do to your game.

Are you me as well? I know like 40 other people from my old server who would feel the same.

CBT was fine for CBT standards. It was one of the best periods of the game. The problem is, IMC is a shit company from a shit country that shits out shit games over and over for a shit korean playerbase. They had this one amazing concept that was supposed to make them big, but they refused to grow the necessary qualities needed to actually fulfill their promises.

Now listen to this, probably the best factoid from the entire Tree of Savior fiasco. They original promise to the hue crowd was that Level Up Games!, a company known in the third world for being an awful publisher with awful business practices(i.e. they sold MvP Cards on cash shop for their RO servers) would host ToS in Brazil. LUG! told IMC to fuck off and cut their contract because they're not good enough for LUG!'s standards.

When your game gets rejected by the worst publisher in the planet, you know things are going badly.

>MOBAs and other online games fill the same purpose MMOs do
Well, that's true. Blame the retarded devs who removed the "massive" part from the game.

In the case of FFXIV, the optional cosmetics in the cash shop are old event gear and dyes you can obtain easily in-game. People are fine with cosmetics in cash shop mostly because they don't look too fancy because almost all the good looking and optimal equipment/cosmetics are only unlockable in-game.

>lost a severe number of players
>still hundreds of times more populated than your dead free to play MMO

There has to be logic as to why people would pay to play those MMO rather than play the hundreds of F2P MMOs out there.

>When your game gets rejected by the worst publisher in the planet, you know things are going badly.

This.

RO was plagued by latinoes and pinoys and they are still the biggest demographic for the game.

A lot of recent cosmetics are cash-shop exclusives, and one of them is even $18 for a single character instead of account wide because it has a 30% exp boost on it.

And that still doesn't excuse the practice. it's a sub-based game. If they're not making enough money off subscriptions then they're either struggling and want to milk some whales, or they're just greedy.

>ad populum
Sup Forums is 18+, son.

The exclusive shit looks ugly tbhonest senpai, there's no reason to buy it. If I wanted to buy good glamour then I would just raid for it like any normal person would.

>There has to be logic as to why people would pay to play those MMO

user I've personally witnessed someone buy over 50 sex/race change potions. There's no need for logic when you have mentally ill people with too much money.

FFXIV at the least appeals to the most mentally broken people I've come across. It has the highest concentration of trannies I've ever witnessed for any game community.

Also me. I remember I couldn't choose between Bokors or Dievs because both were so cool and original...or how 100+ bosses were a selling point. How times have changed

Like which? Every class had a role, even when 2-2 came out, the Gunslinger, Ninja, TK/SG were all still viable. While Snipers were generally one of the better farmers for PvE, PvP had some pretty impressive balancing. Every class had a clear role, it wasn't rock paper scissors.

RO had some of the best classes/skills and balancing I've ever seen in a game. For someone to call it the "spiritual successor" they really fucked up on that aspect. You know, and tons more.

What does your annecdote has to do with why millions of people pay toplay WoW+FFXIV over a shitty F2P like Tree of Savior or RO?

That's your opinion. My opinion is that the raid gear looks like garbage. In fact, most of the gear looks like absolute garbage and 70% of it is either some version of a longcoat with some extra zippers thrown on, or a recolor of previous gear.

Sure I'm not too thrilled by the cash shop stuff either and I never lusted for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's exclusive. It's just shoddy double-dipping business practice. i swear, people lost their shit a decade ago over shitty horse armor costing $5. Now $18 dresses in MMOs that you pay -monthly- to play are a-ok. It's ridiculous.

See, you're looking at the game like it's single player. Devo pallies were always looked for for Abbey parties. Sinx were great for picking up multiple mobs then stealthing so the slow ass monk/champ with steel body could tank em.

I really enjoyed RO, and thought it had some pretty damn good class balancing/class roles.

>Like which?
Not him, but RO have a lot of underpowered/gimmicky builds (not classes), like Battle priest or sage and a lot of niche builds, like devo sader.

That's good in my book tho. I'll rather have the option to gear a fun character and play with it every now and then. Way better than the boring "everybody is the same" of current MMOs.

I'm saying that the games appeal to people with mental issues. Not that hard to follow, friend.

If people spend money on the cash shop to get ugly dresses and help support the game, what's wrong with that? That's how you make a successful product if people actually buys your shit.

The reason why most F2P MMOs are dead now because they can't get people to buy shit. There's no steady stream of quality content because there's hardly any revenue in it.

ragnarok 3.0

That's the MMO audience right there, it's not exclusive to those games. You totally sound like a downer.

>fifty shades of grey is better than crime and punishment
LAMO, who reads something wrote by an old white man nowadays?

who even reads books anymore you fucking nerd

Because you're already paying monthly to support the game.

I mean, i get it. It's a company and they want to fuck you out of your money as hard as possible, which is why the cash shop in ffxiv is getting worse and worse (guarantee they're going to have level potions next). They're seeing just how hard they can fuck people while maintaining the playerbase.

it's smart of them to do. That doesn't make it a good thing.

I can kinda see that. Battle priest wasn't really promoted, but while doublecast/fire bolt prof had more damage potential autocast profs were something you could legit make work with the right cards.

The grind becomes insane way WAY too early on.

No there's way more trannies in ffxiv than in any other MMO I've played.

Remembuh me?

It flopped so hard yet its still doing better than Dungeon Fighter Global

Bard and Super Novice have never good

I'm fine with putting stuff in a cash shop that's attainable in game. Even name-changes and sex/race change potions are in theory something you can do without paying extra money (make a new character, delete your current one, etc). Glamours from previous years are a bit iffy, but okay.

But when it gets to exclusive items (mounts, minions, glamours) only attainable via paying more money on a game you already paid for, it gets out of hand. Maybe my big thing in the game is I want to collect every minion. Whelp, now I can't! Unless I want to pay money that is.

It's not that hard to understand. And if you want to use the argument of 'If they put it in the game it'll just be a huge grind, wouldn't you rather just pay $5 for it?' Well no, because having an incentive to actually play the game would be a GOOD thing.

>>They patched out guild wars entirely because carebears threatened to quit. When they did, all PvPers left, and then the carebears left regardless.

What, did it have open PvP or something?

0 cast SN is viable (nor really good, but not useless). Bard have the best buff in the game and you should get one in every party and every WoE.

Bards did what they were supposed to. They buffed the party.

why are there so many hues itt?