Raise difficulty

>Raise difficulty
>increases enemy HP and ATK

What's wrong with this? Why all the hate?

I can understand having an issue with higher HP depending on the game, as it can make some weapons completely useless as they were balanced for lower difficulties, but if balance is done right, what's the problem? It absolutely is more difficult.

I hear so many people state that having enemies have new attacks would be better, but that just means there will now be several games difficulties where enemies are lacking half of their moves and this makes shit boring.

And don't give me shit like "well you're just doing shit you already know how to do, just for longer", because by that logic, it's stupid to have any weapon take more than a single shot to kill, because any further shots would just be doing what you already know how to do anyway. If enemies do more damage and take more hits, it forces you to become more effective in killing them, ESPECIALLY in long battles where your focus needs to be stronger to last longer.

>implying Instant Kill mode in WOTS3 isnt the best game mode

>here will now be several games difficulties where enemies are lacking half of their moves and this makes shit boring
Maybe play on those higher difficulties then?

Increasing enemy hp and atk is just a boring and lazy way of increasing difficulty.
And no, it does not force you to become more effective in killing enemies, it just makes the game tedious and boring.

You can't expect everyone to be a super 1337 master at the game as soon as they pick it up. Forcing people to play on super high difficulties from the start is just going to turn people off, or makes games inaccessible to newcomers.

So you can either choose an interesting experience but that's so hard as shit it's not worth trying if you're new or only average at the genre, or a simpler but boring one that's not fun to play.

Increasing HP and ATK of enemies for higher difficulty levels just makes it more tedious and boring, which is the worst of both worlds.

Are you stupid

>taking away moves at lower difficulties makes the game boring
>forcing people to play on higher difficulty turns people off

Which one is it

It forces you to preform better and make less mistakes, which is exactly what difficulty should do.

Removing the moves an enemy can do on most difficulties and making it only 1 or 2 they can do will make them boring to fight, but forcing a person to play a game at a super high challenge setting at the start will just cause people to not want to play.

We should have every enemy do one damage and have one attack. Anything over is retarded and makes things more tedious and boring, because bigger is always worse.

instead of removing moves the lower difficulty. why not just add more moves the higher the difficulty

In a perfect world, easy difficulty would have tons of enemy attacks already, and harder difficulties would add more, but there's only so much variation to can give to attacks that doesn't include the same "strategy" of dodging them or blocking them. So even that doesn't always help.

In the real world, this shit takes a huge amount of work, and devs probably aren't going to bother compensating for difficulty by removing or adding moves, rather, choosing to keep them on all difficulties.

>raise difficulty
>all enemies become bullet sponges

>Sup Forums calls something that needs 3 headshots a bullet sponge

There's more you can do to enemies to make them harder than adding new moves to their move list. Making them react faster, make better decisions or strategies, work with allies better, etc. Their AI is what should be improved. Video game AI is already gimped because realistically there's no way one person would be able to take out a battalion of enemies all by themselves unless he was fighting a battalion of retards.

That said, a lot of games do already have decent AI and increasing their health and damage is not a bad way to increase difficulty. I don't think it's boring to take moves away at lower difficulties. You can still craft a good game with less content on easy. In fact, many games with an easy mode cut whole levels of content that is present in normal and hard and are still fun.

Raising enemy HP can be bad if it just makes em bullet sponges with no regard to weapon balance, but it's not usually the case.

Raising attack is never bad. If you get hit, it's your fucking fault because you're bad and made a mistake, and you need to learn to avoid attacks better to win.

This is fucking obvious.

Each enemy is designed to be beaten on normal difficulty. Their health, attack, moves, etc. are designed to be easy enough to be for the average player. A good player will be bored fighting the same enemy for 3x the duration.

Good difficulty is done by adding additional objectives, new types of enemies, different strategies on the enemy's part, different moves, etc. More health and more attack isn't a fun way to improve difficulty; You're just playing normal mode except it takes longer.

Difficulty does not mean new experience.

It just means something should be harder or easier.

Raising enemy attack power does that and doens't make shit take longer. You need to get better at avoiding attacks. be more focused.

For an experienced player, avoiding attacks is easy. Hitting the opponent is easy.

You're not making the game any harder, you're making it longer, and more tedious. Learning how to deal with new experiences is a skill. Dodging the same attack that does more damage but it doesn't matter is not more skill-intensive.

>using the autistic screeching maymay
argument discarded
treat autistic people with more respect

Skyrim Legendary Difficulty.
Absolute shit.

There's nothing inherently wrong with increasing an enemy's HP or ATK, but the highest difficulty should be calibrated appropriately to where a player can reach reasonably without exploiting the game in some way.

I agree OP, I've argued the same point before
More hp/damage isn't inherently bad difficulty, it's just more difficulty that can feel bad

Usually because they drastically lower your own health to make the enemies "stronger" instead of making them actually do more damage.

>100hp and enemies do 10hp damage a swing
That's normal.
>50 hp and enemies do 20 damage a swing
That's bullshit.
>100hp and enemies do 20 damage a swing
That's the sweet spot.

you were in that thread too, huh?

>Maybe play on those higher difficulties then?
See it from a game development perspective
Most people are shitters, so when you start having lots of high-diff-exclusive moves, you're essentially wasting a lot of time and effort on a small percentage of players, while the large majority will miss out on content and might find your game lacking

Larger HP and Damage in an FPS: You can hardly dodge bullets, and enemies take forever to kill. It turns a fight into an hour long cover-fest.

Larger HP and Damage in an action game: You're still dodging the same moves, which doesn't take any more skill, you're just doing it for longer.

Larger HP and damage in an RTS game: They realize it's fucking retarded so they don't do it because it's a bad way to increase difficulty.

If you get hit, that means your shit at the game. Higher ATK forces you to get good.

Sure it doesn't matter if you're fucking perfect at the game and literally NEVER GET HIT but that a different story entirely.

>which doesn't take any more skill,
You fucking what
Imagine an enemy with a move that you have to dodge within a 1 frame indow
Doing it once might be luck
Doing it five times in a row is skill

It's the easiest thing to learn how to do in a game that allows you to dodge.

And, guess what? Once you learn how to do one skill (dodge) you're in for the long haul since there are no other challenges in the game. They're increasing the difficulty of one aspect of the game. Once you master it, you're done. The game has nothing else to offer you in terms of difficulty.

If a dev is only increasing HP and damage, no, it doesn't take any more skill to dodge the attack, because it's the same thing as normal mode.

it only makes one aspect of the game more difficult
it doesn't increase the difficulty of passing charisma/speech checks
it doesn't increase the difficulty of sneaking past enemies
it doesn't increase the difficulty of crafting stuff
this ruins the balance of the game

>And don't give me shit like "well you're just doing shit you already know how to do, just for longer", because by that logic, it's stupid to have any weapon take more than a single shot to kill, because any further shots would just be doing what you already know how to do anyway
Learn what diminishing returns are

Then jump off a bridge

>enemy takes one hit to kill
vs
>enemy takes 10 hits to kill

This obviously fucking does increase the skill required.

If you could kill every goddamn boss in a single hit or two, vs the 100 usually required, they would be piss fucking easy and require no skill.

An easy enemy to kill is easy whether or not you kill one or ten. You are using the same skill ten times. Hitting a rock ten times is as easy as hitting one once.

And there are plenty of games with bosses that are hard that you only need to hit once.

Furi's two difficulties demonstrate how to do an increased difficulty level perfectly

>boss needs 1 hit to die
>dodge his attack once
>hit him, he's dead

>boss needs 10 hits to die
>dodge his same attack 10 times and hit him after each
These are the same difficulty in your eyes

Bosses who die in one hit are designed to be difficult despite that.

A boss that's designed to be killed in ten hits, and attacks you ten times, is fun for those ten times. A boss that gets 30 more hits tacked on isn't more fun, because it's still designed to be a ten hit fight. It's boring.

>Bosses who die in one hit are designed to be difficult despite that.
Just regard the example at hand
Same boss, 1 frame window to dodge his attack, in one case you need to dodge 1 of those, in the other 10
Do you still claim same skill requirements?

KH2FM Critical mode is still the best way to handle difficulty

shit's so satisfying

it is more difficult
it's just boring and played out, lacks creativity. Do something else, give the enemy some new moves, make him smarter, add in a new guy, anything actually "new"

Yes. You know how to dodge that 1 frame hit. It's not more difficult the second, or third time. You're not testing your skill, you're testing your endurance. It's not harder, it's longer. It's a slog. It's not fun.

No, you're testing your consistency
Any monkey can dodge the thing once, doing it consistently takes more skill.

You input the same commands to dodge even if the attack is harder. The game is no different than normal mode. If the attack was faster, maybe. Or if it was from a different side, or changed to be unexpected. But with only attack and HP changed, the gameplay is no different at all unless you're a drooling imbecile.

Games that arent meant to be ng+'d shouldnt have difficulty settings at all. Fuck the casuals and game journalists. They should play the game as it was meant to be played.

Higher HP and damage only punishes people who are already bad at the game. If you're good at the game, you won't be able to tell the difference beyond how long the enemy takes to kill.

Nothing, but 16 year olds who watch youtube videos about "game design" piss themselves whenever they see it

>You input the same commands to dodge even if the attack is harder.
>But with only attack and HP changed, the gameplay is no different at all
We're talking about difficulty, user, not the gameplay
And consistently doing a thing is way more difficult that doing a thing once
But we're not going to agree so I'll leave it at that

>it does not force you to become more effective in killing enemies
Scenario 1, the enemy does so little damage and has so little HP that you can just stand there and mash one button to kill it. Scenario 2, its HP and damage values are increased so that that tactic is no longer possible, you now have to learn its attacks and look for opportunities to deal damage instead of standing there. The base level of effectiveness you must be at to pass the fight has increased, and only HP and dmg values have changed. Do you see?