What the fuck went so, so fucking wrong?

What the fuck went so, so fucking wrong?

The game on the left is a blunder with a few redeeming moments, and the game on the right is a really good game with a couple of problems.

I usually dislike 3d Zelda games, and this one took the series in the entirely right direction. While MGS5 just continued to milk the dead corpse of that series while making it shallow and nothing like MGS

>MGSV
Mediocre story, ost, underdeveloped characters, but still a decent game
>BotW
Dungeons could be better and minor frame rate issues, that's it.

>posts two good games
>asks what went wrong
I'll bite. They strayed too far from series conventions for some fans tastes (boss fights and cutscenes for Metal Gear, dungeons for Zelda). Neither of them had a very good story, though that only really matters for Metal Gear. In Metal Gear's case, the "open world" was just a device to allow you to tackle outposts from any direction. Zelda actually pulled off open world very well, though. They both can get repetitive, but Metal Gear has that problem to a much greater degree and is an unfinished game.

Konami meddling
Nothing
Both are fantastic games
Here is your (you) for being an uninspired contrarian

>Rain literally stops you from exploring i.e. the entire fucking point of the game
>Weapons made of biscuits and glue- one combat scenario will either break or almost break a brand new weapon you worked to get
>Shield surfing takes durability
>Greatswords are redundant thanks to long range spears and decent damage shortswords
>Only like 6 types of enemies in the game if that
It's a lot of fucking nothing spread out over Kyoto.

Kojima is a hack, the actual story writer behind Metal Gear Solid ha's been gone for years.

BotW was reworked to be a switch launch title, dropping the quality of the Wii U version.

True, once Kojima had complete control the story went to shit. MGS IV is garbage.

MGSV had excellent gameplay, but crap design otherwise and the story was a huge wasted opportunity.

Zelda gives a grand sense of adventure early on, but the dungeons and combat are terrible.

Nice b8 m8

>minor frame rate issues
>20fps

>Sup Forums sucks the dick of N64 Zelda which is locked at 20 the whole time
>Sup Forums shits on BotW for dropping to 20 in some locations

Wrong
Wrong
Right but not a problem
Wrong
Wrong

Way to prove you havent played the game.

>listening to nuclear as i see this thread thinking about how shit MGSV was

>wow how can people have higher expectations after 20 years fucking hypocrites

>99,5% of the time 30fps
>in 0,5% less than 30fps
>Somehow not minor

Okay

From my personal experiences:

MGSV:
>Shitty story in a game that was supposed to tie everything together
>Solid gameplay hindered by the open world meme
>Partners were a big advertised feature, but all the buddies were revealed before launch
>Quiet wasn't Chico
>Big Boss hardly ever talks because Muh Keifer
>Deserts are a boring environment with nothing to do

BoTW:
>No separate save slots(Similar to Skyrim save system, but actually worse because no character select option, at least on Wii U version)
>Dungeons have no puzzles outside of basic "There's water here, so I have to use cryonisis" tier shit
>Enemies, especially bosses, are super easy to cheese because they have dogshit A.I.
>Some bosses don't even need to be cheesed because they basically just fucking stand there
>Item durability and inventory management makes up the majority of the "difficulty"
>World is empty
>Ubisoft towers
>Temperature control is nothing more than a nuisance that forces more menu interaction and item management
>Shrines are all mediocre and there's no change in design or aesthetic across the 120 or so shrines
>Incredibly small number of enemies for a Triple-A Zelda game
>Music is minimalist experimental trash with the occasional throwback remix
>Voice acting
>Poor voice acting
>Framerate drops
>Textures look like Skyrim at low settings
>Combat is the stalest it's ever been
>Objective markers
>No heart pieces or other collectables means even less reason to explore
>Dungeon and story locked behind DLC paywall
>Rolling unnecessarily replaced by jumping
>Wii U version (the original version) was purposely gimped to sell the Switch
>Master Sword, AKA Blade of Evil's Bane gets tired after a handful of enemies and requires a real-time cooldown to recharge
>Story, while mattering far less than gameplay, sucks dick and plays it far too safe

Both games are so safe and formulaic. They're like the new Star Wars movies. They're made to make money, not to be good games.

>30 fps

Fell for the open world meme

>Both games are so safe and formulaic. They're like the new Star Wars movies. They're made to make money, not to be good games.
If the games were safe and formulaic then MGSV would have a quirky miniboss squad and a fist fight on top of Sahelanthropus. And Zelda would have actual dungeons.

No, I mean that they were safe and formulaic for video games as a whole, not for their specific franchises. Look at how many normalfags eat up open world garbage and love militaristic deserts because "muh afghan, muh gulf war, muh CoD" type shit. That's the crowd that these games were designed for, rather than the people that were fans of the series and liked the way it already was.

>shield surfing takes durability
uh, yes? standing on your shield and scrape it over rocks and dirt tend to break it, even if it's made of mirthril.

You made this thread.

Alternatively, I replied to it.

very weak bait my friend

The equivalency here is so off point.

MGS was a story focused game, that lost all story.

Zelda was always about gameplay, exploration, if anything it went back to its roots. And is better than most Zelda games.

The fact that people complain about these games the way they do (particularly MGSV because BoTW is widely acclaimed and only contrarians would seriously deny it at this point) shows me that they still just don't get it

They don't really understand what video games are all about
And even though anybody could pick out flaws in these games as you could do for any game they still are perfect at displaying that

>Solid gameplay hindered by the open world meme
I never understood how people can compare MGSV to other open world games, it's not similar at all. It's open world to give you options in how to tackle every mission, basically what PW did but without the hardware limitations.

The only way I can understand someone disliking MGSV's openness is if they go into the game expecting an open world game, then they'd find a mostly empty map because that's just where missions happen.

The game is full of flaws, but gameplay-wise it's damn near perfect, with the problems being scaling, story, characters, the lack of bosses and repetitiveness.

>It's open world to give you options in how to tackle every mission

Old GTA games did this. They weren't stealth games but then again neither is MGSV because you essentially just end up shooting everybody before you enter before your buddy slaughters them all.

>Shitty story in a game that was supposed to tie everything together
This is the funny thing.
MGSV didn't need to happen; the series was already wrapped up by 4, and it could have easily ended after 2 or 3 anyways.

Big Boss' downfall into becoming a warlord was already hinted in MGS3 when he feels betrayed by his country, he refused to shake hands with the president and left the room after he was decorated as a hero.
Peace Walker went even further beyond by letting players straight up build his first army and show how Big Boss didn't care about being antagonized by the international community as long as he could keep building his army without borders.

Being given options doesn't make it not a stealth game. That's just playing in easy mode.

>>Temperature control is nothing more than a nuisance that forces more menu interaction and item management
Wow, they didn't learn from Wind Waker?

>implying walking into a base and throwing everyone to the ground is not, also, easy mode.

they fucked up. there aren't enough guards anywhere to make it even enjoyable to """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""sneak""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" around them

During PW he never seemed to have anything but good intentions, it's only in the last scene with Miller that it's hinted that he finally broke.

Ground Zeroes is what became his downfall, and Phantom Pain would build up on it which is what made the switcheroo effective.

Haven't played BOTW, but it can't be as fucking disappointing as V. That game was supposed to show the downfall of a man, a hero, a fucking legend. Instead we got Balloon Simulator, Angry Kaz, and a really shitty "revenge." Oh, and muh parasites that are the precursor to FoxDie.

It is impossible for BOTW to be worse. There were no expectations leading up to it. MGSV was supposed to be the be-all-end-all of games, goddammit.

Both are the most groundbreaking games to come out since GTAV in terms of open world gameplay. Sorry you guys aren't creative enough to enjoy these, and would prefer waifubait handholding garbage.

Also, the story to MGSV is fucking perfect. It's literally called The Phantom Pain for a reason. The fact that the game's ability to make a person feel Phantom Pain through how its story unraveled is a first for gaming and video based art itself.

Grow up, have sex, make friends, go outside, get a job, and open your minds you damn virgins.

The newfags that complain so much about V are funny, the game is in no way near as disappointing as 4.

>Both games are so safe and formulaic. They're like the new Star Wars movies. They're made to make money, not to be good games.
tfw growing up to see video games turned from an art form into an industry

I know people who defend V deny the fuck out of it, but they literally advertised what is being said we expected. Not only did they call it "the missing link," all of the advertisement direction hinted toward a descent into becoming the bad guy.

Next thing you know the game comes out and you've adopted half the nigger kids of Africa and Revolver Ocelot and Skullface is now shit.

>newfags
Okay buddy.

>no way near as disappointing as 4
This I gotta hear. Go on. I hope you have something better than
>le movie maymay

>MGSV
Japs don't understand open-world games, Kojima cares more about making witty meta-art than making enjoyable videogames

>the phantom pains story is perfect
>you wanted a good game but got a bad game
>and so now you feel... the phantom pain

There is literally no reason to explore MGSV's open world. There's no secrets to find. You can see every major point in the map by following the story.

BOTW has shit everywhere.
Also, despite almost having no story in BotW, it had an ENDING.
I don't know why people keep comparing these two. It's like they just wanna cash in on some (You)'s by making threads about "IS THIS THE NEXT MGSV HURR???"

>boo hoo they treat rain an actual obstacle
>*applies to sticks and clubs only
>how is this a problem don't try to surf over bare rock surface with a pot lid dumbass
>greatswords are the highest dps weapon and provide the most risk, spears are the lowest dps
>this number seems to shrink with every pasta
it's a fun game you should play it some time

This is what happens when japanese devs see skyrim outsell the most popular japanese franchises 10:1
Outside mgs4 and skyward sword by that ratio.
Surprise surprise everyone wants to be skyrim.

There has never been a good open world adventure game and there probably never will be. Grand Theft Auto killed them in their infancy. GTA games are trash, and all open world adventure games inspired by GTA (read: the entire genre) are trash.

I know, let's design a giant open world and give the player nothing to do except
>Linear scripted (usually unreplayable) missions
>Stupid 'hidden' collectibles, many of which are locked until the post-game so whatever 'super-cool' bonus you get from them is entirely useless for the linear scripted (usually unrepeatable) missions
>Unfun repetitive side tasks for getting currency/items to use in the linear scripted (usually unreplayable) missions
let's do this, and never ever fully diverge from this formula, forever.

Red Dead Redemption? Trash.
Just Cause? Double trash.
Elder Scrolls? Triple trash.
Assassin's Creed? M-m-m-monstertrash, trash, trash.
Sleeping Dogs? ??
Fallout? Nuclear waste.
Mad Max? Worth less than its weight in scrapmetal.
Far Cry? Trash Bandicoot.
The Witcher 3? Admirable writing, but still trash. Sorry.
InFamous? Supertrash.
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain? Unfortunately, trash.
Crackdown? It's TURBO-TRASH!
No Man's Sky? Space-trash.
Batman: Arkham? Capetrash.
Final Fantasy XV? Roadside trash.
Prototype? Prototrash.
Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild? A clear attempt to break free, but still trash.
Mafia? Ayyyyy whatsamattatrash.
Ghost Recon: Wildlands? Trash mountain.
Saint's Row? Obnoxious, unrepentant trash.
Watch_Dogs? Oh, you'd better believe it's trash.
Any other games in this genre I haven't bothered to list? So trashy that I didn't even remember them.

Red Dead Redemption 2 will be trash.

All 'open world, scripted mission' games are trash and the open world adventure genre is a garbage heap. Grand Theft Auto III permanently tarnished 3D open world adventure games at a conceptual level and it's unlikely that the genre will ever achieve any real potential. They're fundamentally flawed

All of their problems should have been realized, though. Whether its BotW, FFXV, or MGSV, all of these games have glaring issues that were apparent to the developers for a long time before and until release.

They could have fulfilled their potential, but they all fell short by a mile and knew it. when all of them could have potentially been great.

Here we go again:

>normalfags

MGS is known for using marketing to deceive consumers. You can't critisize the game for how it was marketed, do it based on the game itself.

The story is the best part of 4 in my opinion, even if that sounds like a joke. The settings are kind of varied, but everything looks so washed out that it feels samey. It feels more like the campaign of a Call of Duty game than a MGS game. The boss battles and group of antagonists are a joke.

Chapter 3 is where the game just becomes unsufferable, it's all around awful in terms of gameplay. Returning to Shadow Moses would have been great if it wasn't full of annoying robots, it was jarring to see how different it was to 1 and 2, even if those already had some cyberpunk elements. Outer Haven is just ridiculously bad, using a railgun is the last thing you should need to do in a stealth game.

The game had its moments, but it's seriously much less enjoyable to play than V, in which the problems come up several hours into the game.

Also, Sunny and Drebin suck. Raiden suddenly being a cyborg without much explanation was a ridiculous thing to do.

MGSV followed trends, BotW redefined them.

Leave it to real Japanese devs and not westaboo gooks to do things right.

Remember that MGS puts a big emphasis on showing how there really aren't good or bad guys, it's all a matter of perspective, and most of the time the heroes who are sent to take out the bad guys are simply being mislead by a major force that is secretly controlling mankind in every single regard.

If Solid Snake was already a grown adult by the time of PW, I could easily see Cypher sending him to take out Big Boss and MSF.

Gameplay wise it's got the best mechanics of any MGS game and really any open world game similar to its style since there's a lot of depth into every possible action/inaction the player takes.

The story's pseudo-swerve and incompleteness epitomes the idea of Phantom Pain though. It's not a feeling like happiness or sadness. But it's certainly not a good feeling either. People's complaining of this is equivalent of an 8 year old that whines about why they are watching a sad, serious movie. Their brain has yet to be able to digest this new feeling being portrayed in the artform they are familiar with to an extent.

>mfw MGSV and BoTW are two of my favorite games this gen.

Keep being mad at video games.

>witcher 3
>admirable writing

That's where I dropped

>MGS is known for using marketing to deceive consumers. You can't critisize the game for how it was marketed, do it based on the game itself.

Yeah the difference being that before it was clever and this time it was far from it. It wasn't just tasteless, it was petty, considering what we received wasn't poignant, it was trash.

Ground Zeroes was 1000% closer to the Metal Gear formula than its actual game was. Not just in world design and story, but that it left you open to still wanting to know more despite the fact that the story by this point was already irredeemably tarnished by his trash writing in 4.

V just proved he completely lost it, and left you glad it was over.

Your point has nothing to do with that though. Big Boss in MG2 was a very specific character, and in PW he was far from that.

So what?

Nobody wants to make a good game. Who gives a fuck? They want to make games that SELL. And they did.

Games ship broken DELIBERATELY. It's a conscious decision. Trust me: a lot of bugs and or glitches were caught in testing. I know.

Had any of its areas been designed with the same density as its own demo it'd have been as much of a delight to use all those mechanics. It wasn't, and it isn't. The end product turned out shallow due likely to technological limitations inhibited by Kojima's own ineptitude and lack of foresight.

>mediocre story
false, it's a good story with godawful pacing and cut story content before the ending.
>mediocre ost
I'll fucking cut you into pieces, it's one of the best in the series.

>Yeah the difference being that before it was clever and this time it was far from it. It wasn't just tasteless, it was petty, considering what we received wasn't poignant, it was trash.
The only difference is that you lived this one. MGS2 caused a lot of angered neckbeards to trash the game, some still do and hate Raiden because of it. The backlash forced Kojima to turn Raiden into a completely different character in 4.

Ground Zeroes just felt like a longer more plot heavy PP mission. You clearly aren't being rational in your criticisms, this is your disappointment talking through emotion.

MGSV is nothing like most open world games, it seems you haven't played it. BotW just did Ubisoft formula and improved some stuff.

All of these companies should know by now that interest for sales over time and on your next release are directly dependent upon previous customer satisfaction.

He was more jaded and drastic by that point, but he is basically doing the same thing in both games: building a land for soldiers who live off a war economy, and he owned a Metal Gear and a nuke to threaten anyone who wanted to mess with him.

He is a lot more questionable and jaded in MG2, but I don't think a whole new game was needed to explain that "missing link".
I'm an MGS fan, so I didn't and can't about getting a new game. But from a narrative perspective, MGSV wasn't necessary.

Basically, they want to rustle your jimmies (i know, old ass slang, but you get my point)
And judging from your reaction, they succeeded.

That aside, the fact still remains that botw fanbois rant and rave about it being the best game ever, which it's simply not.

It's just another open world game to many, but nintendo fans have never played a decently made one before, if at all. Just third rate ports of games that kinda sucked to begin with. So when they finally got a good open world game, they think it's amazing.

At best, it's a quirky and fun alternitive to more serious open world games. But that's it. Not exactly the best game ever.
So you could understand why some people actually think it's a dissipointment.

Personally, i've played enough open world games and botw doean't offer anything worthwhile to me. So fuck it.

The story is miles better than V's and wraps up the series in the best way possible. Peace Walker and V just shit up 4's legacy.

Chapter is pretty bad, I agree. Chapter 4 was good outside that beginning area. The feels were too much. And to touch on gameplay a bit, 4 honestly had the best gameplay in the series. The Solar Gun and Tanegashima and Puppet things were fun as fuck to use.

I don't think using the Railgun was that bad. I mean, MGSV wasn't even a steal game anymore. You could fucking airstrike enemy bases for fuck's sake.

The B&B Corp may be the weakest boss group in terms of characterization, but they are miles better than every single boss fight in V. Not to mention, MGS4 has the best final boss fight of all time.

Raiden's story is pretty clear. MGR was supposed to expand upon it, but it got axed.

Sunny was cute, Drebin was alright.

>You clearly aren't being rational in your criticisms, this is your disappointment talking through emotion.

Not at all. There was nothing of value to be taken from MGSV, and there never will be.

People will never debate the meaning of anything in V; this is a factual statement which can be said for the reasons I'd previously stated from a stance of complete separation.

People will into the future still continue to discuss MGS2, as they always have, for reasons which should be obvious given the brevity of its themes.

No game was ever necessary, but there's a lot of information missing that people expected to see in the game.

It's easy to imagine BB to go that road after PW, but actually seeing that would have been nice, especially since we know a lot of characters connected to him that almost didn't interact with him.

Too bad it retroactively took a shit all over the entirety of MGS2. It managed to make a previous game worse by existing unless you think of that game pretending 4 didn't exist.

It is very easy to overlook. But the OST of MGSV really is great, some of the ambient and action songs were amazing for the mood, and A Phantom Pain and Sins Of Father are simply god-tier vocal songs.

The areas are more sandboxy/open ended than linear with set things because the player has more options than Ground Zeroes. I don't understand how this doesn't go through any of you guys' heads.

Ok. Name a good and "serious" open world game.

dude, GZ isn't as complex as you remember

Every open world game has "potential" but the fact is everybody is looking for something different out of it so unless they're going to make a perfect emulation of real world dynamics from combat to conversations, and still put some sort of enthralling lore and story and interesting quests and objectives, no open world game can ever be perfect because of the idea that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you can either make it perfect for one person, or acceptable for a couple million.
All we ever get is acceptable or worse, "potential" is bullshit.

Nothing, I enjoyed both of those games more than pretty much anything else in the last 10 years.

>There is literally no reason to explore MGSV's open world. There's no secrets to find. You can see every major point in the map by following the story.

Right but except for the whole MB rating aspect. An open world isn't bad if it doesn't have a bunch of one time only collectibles to find spread out everywhere

If MGSV is the best you have found this gen, you clearly haven't played enough games, or just have shit taste in general.

Ground Zeroes had a fuckton of guards in it.

Everywhere in V felt empty by comparison. It's fairly easy to understand why V is inferior to its own demo.

You know MGS had fucked up when a Zelda game had more TECHNOLOGY. And better stealth gameplay.

MGSV was the bad kind of open world game where the world is an excuse to recycle levels. Zelda was the good kind of open world where the world is the level.

The story isn't better, it's only more cinematic and expanded on. What is there in V is mostly better even if there's no conclusion.

4 didn't have better gameplay than V, that's just a ridiculous statement, but opinions.

Airstrikes are still more in line with a stealth game. If things go south you can destroy all evidence. A railgun that you hold with your hands is way worse, but then again, opinions.

Your point about bosses makes me think that you haven't played V. There's only Quiet and Sahelanthropus as real ones, with maybe Eli and Volgin counting. The fights (besides Eli) were so much better than 4's boss battles, those were just lacking everything that made previous entries battles fun. There were mostly no puzzles, just shooting the Beauty until it dies. The final boss in 4 is great and all, but it's a very shitty fight and saying it's the best of all time is just fanboying over it.

Not using that MGSV art for the NA box.

Potential isn't bullshit, XV and V are unfinished and poorly hashed out games. BotW was doomed from the start building open world on a potato.

Yes and no. Sure, 2 wrapped some points up very nicely and the need for a sequel wasn't really there. But then again, 4 addressed points brought up in 2 and 3, so I would disagree.

And besides, it is the aggressor to merely one game in the franchise. Not the whole fucking franchise, like in V's case.

>le 4 was good maymay

no

XV and V are still trash, regardless of how you want to label them. Their potential is meaningless the second they launched and didn't meet it.

That's because 2 ends outside the MGS canon you dumb shit

A game is much more than its themes, you are just a snob. Is 2 deep? Yeah. But that doesn't have to do anything with V's quality, the gameplay in V is top notch and I doubt many AAA games will be able to get near it.

I own both. MGSV was definitely more generic of the two. Despite having the option to go ham and still get S rank, the game dies attempt to guide you along a "proper" way, all because of the FOB portion of the game, you are heavily encouraged to use stealth and fulton soldiers until your base is full.

It's the same shitty practice all other open world games have, where after main missions you just fuck around, get wanted levels or whatever, them get bored and return to the main plot as if you weren't a massacring monster a couple minutes ago. MGSV hides it a bit better. Not opting to improve your FON also cuts in to more options to play the game as you like, so you practically have to play stealth if you want the more "fun" options to be researched.

>all these people hating on games they clearly haven't played
Just play some video games and have fun, stop believing what Sup Forums tells you.

I agree, my point was they knew they were trash when they released them and that they could have turned out phenomenal if quick money didn't override judgement. Now we have 3 dead franchises.

>all because of the FOB portion of the game, you are heavily encouraged to use stealth and fulton soldiers until your base is full.

uh, no

The mechanics are top notch, the gameplay itself is sub-par thanks entirely to its shoddy world design. You forget that part.

But I always hated TPP.

An open world game can be judged on the basis of how that design benefits or detracts from a game. It doesn't have to be a perfect simulation of reality to be good, it just needs to make the game better that there's one big mostly seamless and directionless level with the game's primary mechanics.

And what I'm saying is that "potential" is meaningless because what you want from a perfect open world game is the opposite of what I want from a perfect open world game. Therefore "open world games" in general are destined to always be garbage, full of unrealized potential.

i dunno I thought the world design was pretty good. It's varied af

Uh yes? The game makes it a point to give you a mandatory tutorial on it.

To be fair, FFXV was basically a generic JRPG that got the open world thing forced on it. As a generic JRPG, it's decent, not great, but perfectly playable and the dungeons are good fun.
The open world stuff is clearly just there to be there though, and that, coupled with combat, is what hurts the game.

If they'd made it more linear, like JRPGs usually are, and gave the player more options in combat, it could have been a great game. Hell, even just toning down the open world shit could have made it a good game. But nope. They HAD to cash in on the fad...

And yes, that makes it a bad game and i realize that. I just hadd to vent.

Anyway, botw and tpp are both also hurt by the open world thing as well. It's much harder to design a truely good game with an open world. So making an open world adventure game or an open world stealth game just foesn't work well. They're both genres that need more carefully crafted worlds. Not huge ass open fields with nothing to do in them.

Similarly to how every game last gen was an ultra linear TPS, and most of those sucked ass, because tons of genre conventions had to be abandoned to accomodate this.
TPS MGS was terrible, TPS RE was terrible, TPS FF was especially terrible, and so on. And now it seems like devs are trying to make up for that or something this gen.

But whatever.

christ dude, play the game for more than 30 minutes

99% of your futons should be on materiel

>the FOB portion of the game
I never used that, you fultoned soldiers to expand your base because it's fun.

>where after main missions you just fuck around, get wanted levels or whatever, them get bored and return to the main plot as if you weren't a massacring monster a couple minutes ago
That's entirely on you, I only did missions and side-missions. The world wasn't made to explore it and I knew that I'd get to see new shit by doing what the game wanted me to do. This isn't GTA, you shouldn't play it as such.

I never felt like ignoring FOBs hindered my options to play either, I don't know what you are talking about.

>MGS4 has the best final boss fight of all time.

Not anymore.

FOB is the best content of the game though

That doesn't disprove anything I've said, it only brings up another diwnside which is grinding out materials to expand.

The FOB portion should've been cut altogether desu.

>open world game
>the game isn't made to explore
And there we have it.