Reminder that when the T-34 was introduced during Operation Barbarossa, it had a higher rate of mechanical breakdown than the Panther did during Operation Citadel. Not to mention all the mechanical flaws that were present in the Panther during Operation Citadel were fixed afterwards vastly reducing the Panther's breakdown rate.
Not to mention the Panther had a ridiculously higher K:D ratio than the T-34
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Germans OP pls nerf
oh fucking well the GERMANS LOST
true
>Not bombing British air strips
>Not Training spy's in proper language
You could bring up Russia, but that was a pre-preemptive strike seeing as the Russians had forces building up along the border, & German Intelligence had caught wind of what they were doing to the Germans in their section of Poland. The worst of all is the u.s provoking japan to attack, launching the U.S. in to the war. Damn you FDR, also for giving the Rothschild the fed. res.
*teleports behind you*
psssshhh nothin personnel, fritz
*your transmission breaks*
Quantity>Quality
Its a fucking war.
>13 ships vs 300
>quantity vs q-quality a-user
guess who won?
It counts when it you're winning though. The only thing that kept the americans from getting a heavy tank earlier in the war were the generals who saw that victory was at hand and didnt see the need to order another vehicle with the time, resources and tools needed for it, not to mention training the crews and making sure every fucker in the allied forces can identiffy this new thing instead of shooting at it in panic before noticing it had a white star instead of an iron cross.
Air superiority and artillery strikes were alot more efficient than transporting pershings and t29s across the Atlantic. It had more to do with logistics, and that you can churn out quality troops/gear/war machines the closer you are from your industrial homeland
>Thinking this is even remotely relevant to the conversation
>Implying Japans numbers didn't fuck the shit out of korea anyway while Yi was playing sailor god and they only won because japan went home.
>I am a braintlet with no knowledge of the imjin war apart from memes
we get it, you came from /his/
...
>Russians had forces building up along the border
>building up forces
>caught with pants down
Something's fucky.
>German Intelligence had caught wind of what they were doing to the Germans in their section of Poland
Like what?
>building up on the border
>right after purging their entire officer corps
What a bunch of silly Gooks.
That, and Pershings were assssss
The side of a Panther tank turret, cracked by three glancing blows of 75 mm HE, June 1944.
>Abusing terrain and using superior tactics against a numerically superior foe is totally relevant to a discussion about the deployment tactics of two post industrial nations during a period of global total war.
>It really isn't
>REEEEEEEEEEE brainlets get out
What did he mean by this?
Also you point doesn't even make sense because at the time the Korean ships were not only numerically but also technologically inferior to the Japanese ships.
I love that Fury movie!!!
>muh K:D ratio
Stupid germans were considered about stroking the ego of their glorious aces. Everybody else were considered about WINNING THE WAR.
Also, in 1944 T-34-85 was introduced, which made the Koenigtiger its bitch on first encounter at Sandomierz bridgehead (one was even captured).
Just admit it, german tanks sucked.
German hyper obsession with iterative design and over-engineering was always fighting against them.
It's one reason I always find it silly when people do "nazis win the war" stuff and they're not an ass backwards nation by the 60s. They hated science, but had a boner for engineering. They'd never have made much progress anywhere.
>Werhner von Braun
>Conrad Zuse
>Heisenberg
>Enigma encrpytion
>Science of the races
We wuz scientists and shiet
Yeah, rocketry is basically all they can do. Heisenberg was either sabotaging everything he worked on or was incompetent, depends on if you believe him or not really.
I'd have brought up Teichmuller as he was probably the most impressive person to stick around.
>Rudolf Diesel
>Nicolaus Otto
Fuckin' a dem Germans never did sum good
But V2s can be used for other stuff,too. Like replacing carrier pigeons. Just stick a letter to it and fire away. You can't get the word out any faster.
>tfw Panther is still garbage in CoH2
Wehrmacht armor fucking sucks. Panzer IVs are useless as they get raped by cheaper jacksons or even shermans.
>tfw Panther is still garbage in CoH2
Well that's because the Panther was garbage in real life.
>1962
>the new berlin V4 mail service opens
>friend misaligns his shot and blows up my house
who the fuck would pit t-34 vs panther?? no one who even cares about WW2 period is questioning the panther, it was superior to everything, even with the "failures". the panther II chasis was god.
the t-34 was a piece of garbage that you couldn't even see out of. the proper comparison should be against the panzer 4 and even the 4 had a better gun. problem was panzer 4 profile and how it handled on Russian terrain.
You can't get mail if you don't have a mail box. Or a house for that matter. Germans always solve problems right away. The V4 has an integrated Endlösung
>using Panther on Wehr
is you noob?
cost isn't worth it, better off with a Tiger, you're supposed to be going Tiger.
if you play Wehr right, you never even think about Panther because you have an upgraded Stug that will just wipe out everything and a bunch of combined arms.
It doesn't translate well into a game when my only reliable option to Russian or Allied mass tanks are fucking pak guns.
Should be Blyyaaattt
>is you noob?
Yes. I learned it the hard way.
I don't have a commander with access to tigers yet, and I refuse to pay fucking 4 eurobucks for it.
>anyone trying to argue Russian units better than German Units on a 1:1 basis
>Russia's entire strategy involved KEKEKEKEKEKEKE ZERG RUSH
with Wehr you want to make the enemy struggle to choose what unit to destroy.
i'll have one vetted gren squad, a pak gun, a sniper, a mg, a halftrack and then the first armor piece will be a stug ASAP.
so if all those are relatively close to each other, you're gonna have a hard time because there's no obvious priority target, you're gonna take massive loss no matter what you choose and how you attack it.
>have a huge political purge of your officer corps
>get invaded before you have time to retrain and restructure
They had to redesign their entire doctrine in such a way that they could operate without people needing specialised training. The influence of this is still felt in the Russian army with it's centralised artillery control. The idea obviously being that the few educated people could make better calls than the farmer who has had 6 weeks of training and by sticking to a broad plan there was less chance of fuck ups.
and it's fucking effective. It's actually quite difficult to deal with. Hell NATO's defence in depth struggled to handle it during wargames because all it takes is a couple of fuckups during the complex maneuvers you do and all of a sudden you have out of position armour because the sovets have pushed the line 50 miles forwards and you're now surrounded.
>zerg rush
The Reich-to-Soviets losses ratio is 1/1.3, so it was pretty effective, considering how bad it was for USSR in the beginning.
In 1942, yes. And it failed.
1943 and further, it was the application of the deep operation theory (essentially blitzkrieg, but developed independently regarding the cavalry operations during the Civil war) on comparable technical level and with superior numbers. Operation Bagration was Barbarossa with sides switched, resulting in Heeresgruppe Mitte getting their asses handed to them with a new hole torn.
Would you keep it vidya please?
Deep Battle: it's like blitzkreig, except you do it everywhere.
P.S. Fuck you Guderian.
Blitzkrieg isn't even a real thing. It's just local generals applying the same principles that are found in Soviet deep battle, named after the fact as "blitzkrieg".
Hey, look, Guderian told us it was all totes intentional and he in no way stumbled upon something good. He's just a genius okay?
t. Feizn Huderian.
>It's actually quite difficult to deal with
it's called smash your zerg into their zerg.
actually you're always at a disadvantage if you're on the offensive. the Russians were playing a defensive role the entire war as far as supply goes. all they had to do was cross the volga and they had endless supplies, that's imbal to begin with.
>no love for Easy-8s
>no love for Hellcats
Hellcats a shit, Easy 8 best tank of WW2.
>muh KD
Reminder that Allied Shermans had a higher KD ratio than German Panthers.
The person that zergs first has the initiative, you're on the back foot if you try to do it in return at that point.
>German """"""""""""engineering""""""""""""
I can already hear the Wehraboo excuses.
was it autism?
Al tanks were shit except Japanese ones
All german tanks in mid-1944 were made by shit quality steel.
If the German tanks were made out of shit quality steel, then how were German tanks superior??
>Americans bombard the germans with over 1500 aircraft and lots of artillery before the battle
>thw germans still gave more then they got
The easy 8 and hellcat are genuinely great tanks tho
And alot of the American troops in Normandy were green compared to their enemy
They weren't, that's just a meme.
They're both shit tanks
one woefully underdesigned
one woefully overdesigned
>first half of WW2
>Germans use outdated tanks that can't do shit against T-34s and KVs
>second half of WW2
>Germans use overenigneered tanks that break down and chip when hit
Is there anything the Germans were good at? The Blitzkrieg meme lasted 2 years at most out of 6.
They had very capable infantry.
The german Panzerfaust was the best infantry AT gun in the war.
Same with MG42 being the best gun.
>capable infantry
>everyone is armed with bolt-action rifles
>only NCOs had automatic weapons
>platoon tactics are heavily focused around letting one machine gun do all the work
Literally WW1 tier.
German tanks were so much worse than american tanks, that the yankees called for air support every time.
Submarine warfare
How is the MG42 the best machine gun? A too high rate of fire means unnecessarily high ammo consumption and wear of internal parts. There is a reason why the successors of the MG42 have a lowered rate of fire.
>infinite territory to fall back on
>doctrine that wouldn't make them surrender until they're absolutely utterly fucked
>no problems just throwing millions of untrained fuckers into combat
How did Hitler ever expect to win against them? Even without muh Stalingrad he'd have been fucked
im sure the knowledge you've gained by playing call of duty and medal of honor is factually correct
He hopped they'd break and not be able to draft that many people.
He was dumb.
>new equipment was handed over to newly formed and inexperienced units
>experienced troops used their outdated day 1 tech till they were completely destroyed
>German """"""""""efficiency""""""""""
Quantity > Quality
Easy mass-producible and cheaper units with standard parts always trumps expensive hand built units. This is especially true during wars.
I mean, no matter what kind of tanks they had, the Germans couldn't have won
Fighting against Russia was bad enough, but having the US join the war on top of that just means they'd be outproduced massively
You'd need actual future tech to win WW2 as Germany
>How did Hitler ever expect to win against them?
speed and surprise, which they had going for them initially, but once they lose that advantage there's fucked and he wouldnt surrender
The rate of fire on it was eventually cut down to try and counter the wear on it.
"Best" probably isn't the best word, maybe more "iconic". Going up against an MG42 nest was supposedly one of the most demoralizing things troops had to deal with to the point they made training films specifically on how to deal with them.
That always reminds me of War in the East
Even if you win against the USSR in that game (because they break unrealistically easily), they still have like 5 million soldiers left AND you have to deal with another 5 million PoWs
>Not to mention the Panther had a ridiculously higher K:D ratio than the T-34
>Germans invade USSR
>gets BTFO by the T-34
>spends 2 years engineering a new tank to beat the T-34
>it wins over the T-34 in K/D
Wow, hot shit breh
...
>when my only reliable option to Russian or Allied mass tanks are fucking pak guns
Pretty realistic tho.
How do you win a firefight? By gaining and maintaining fire superiority. You can't advance without fire superiority and you can't stop the enemy without fire superiority. How do you gain fire superiority when in most cases you're heavily outnumbert? There was a good reason Hitler forbit the development of non full auto infantry weapons near end of the war. The MG42 wasn't necessarily the best MG of all time but it was exactly what they needed.
>Quantity>Quality
Except when you're short on men to begin with.
>outnumbert
>forbit
What's this exact type of retardation called?
>outnumbert
I want Germans to leave.
...
>not enough HE
>loader and asst. gunner hatches is open
>not AP on next shot
>outnumbert
>forbit
Are you a Dutch with Stockholm syndrome?
Yeah, and that was the basis of modern infatry combat.
>western "artists" trying to do lolis
stop
Tactics and stratagems are also a factor, but not on operational and above levels, user.
Quantity always wins on the grand scale of things.
Why would you load AP? Because you need to focus on the SPG since light inf can't do shit to you?
Also which game?
>Because you need to focus on the SPG
This. And it's mostly a convenient thing to do, so you didn't forget to change ammo type in beginning.
Armored Commander
>Quantity always wins on the grand scale of things
Wich is why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in the first place. He knew once it was fully industrialised they could easily steamroll all of Europe and that they would likely do so.
Looks interesting, I'll check it out. Thanks.
It says it's a roguelike, but that usually involves finding better equipment and upgrades and shit. Is this one just about clearing an area?
>that they would likely do so.
Making shit up after the fact 101.
>but that usually involves finding better equipment and upgrades and shit
You get a new tank when you lost your old one or your unit going for refurbishment. And you can upgrade your crew. Losing veteran gunner who can shot on move is pain in the ass.
>Is this one just about clearing an area?
There is a bigger campaign involving 4th Armored Division battle path.
Neat, can't wait to get shot at in the terrible first Sherman that's outclassed by anything it meets
>The Soviet Union NEVER annexed it's neighboring countrys! The communist world revolution was just capitalist propaganda!
Who cares about tigers and panthers. PaKs and this little fucker will be your worst nightmare up to the end.
Stalin was for communism in one country
>anti tank guns and tank destroyers are the worst nightmare of a tank
Makes sense
Does it have a Jumbo Sherman so I can laugh at them?
>T-34 was introduced during Operation Barbarossa
T-34 entered production in September 1940.
>Does it have a Jumbo Sherman so I can laugh at them?
I've never get past December, so i don't really know.
StG-44 completely redefined small arms design.