Was Solidus Snake the weakest in the "family"?

Was Solidus Snake the weakest in the "family"?

Boasted as the perfect clone, he honestly didn't do much of an action on his own. Looking at his life, he was always more of a leader from the shadows, rather than a fighter like other Snakes, including their "father".

Dispatched in Liberia, only to end up raising child soldiers to fight for him.
Was a political figurehead for the Patriots, while at the same time pulling strings to achieve his plans through work of other people.
Even on Big Shell, despite having that state of the art armour and strutting around with total confidence, his Harrier fight ended up with him getting saved from death by Ray. For comparison, in similar situation Liquid jumped out of a falling helicopter on his own, evading the blades somehow.
And then he goes full edgy with tentacles, missiles and two katanas, only to get slashed down by a twink with one sword said guy got about half an hour ago.

Was Solidus more air than substance? Was he a screw up on Patriots' side, more fitting for a politician than the soldier they were trying to create?

Genes don't mean shit, it's all about Memes and Scenes.

Solidus himself had no scene whatsoever for combat. He was a commander, and then a president. He didn't even have memes passed onto him like Solid/Liquid did personally by Big Boss/Venom's training or Miller/Ocelot.

So he was pretty much the proof of the game's message, what you pass onto other generations through memes is what really matters in the end.
Strange there was nothing for him like that, he shows obsession with Big Boss, but it's on the level of how young people adore famous figures they actually know nothing about, as if Zero kept him pampered through childhood.

reminder mgs5 could have been a good game about solidus and the " not big boss " twist would have been plausible

but isn't he the bigboss/father to raiden? like he's the meme being passed on to raiden?

He was the perfect big boss clone yet he had none of the training or memes. He just needed Ocelot to use his big boss hypnosis

what kind of retarded name is "Solidus Snake" anyway?

Should have gone with Vaporous Snake

Either referring to the solid gold roman coin (so he's like solid snake, but the perfect, regal version)

Or solidus as in "almost solid" in chemistry

Yes, he was a part of what inspired Raiden, the other part being Solid Snake as sort to say the beacon that made him go forward, but Solidus himself had nothing really to lean on, as a chess figure he is weak, he can only serve as the player moving them, which is the opposite of what Patriots wanted to create through cloning Big Boss.

And it just dawned on me, as I mentioned chess, he is literally the King, the weakest chess figure that depends on others to save him, while he himself spends the game moving out of danger.

That's still would've made it retarded and pointless.
MGSPO, PW and V all shouldn't exist as they take away from MGS3, we didn't need this shit prequels, MGS3 told us enough that we could interpret how BB's life went down

>MGSPO, PW and V all shouldn't exist as they take away from MGS3
Fuck off.
MGS:PW was fucking perfect sequel to 3, and the true MGS5 as far as I'm concerned. A truly fun and badass game.

The solidus point is chemistry terminology for the highest temperature at which a metallic alloy remains a solid.

>MGS:PW was fucking perfect sequel to 3
So, Solid's dad and Otacon's dad knew each other and fought giant robots together, and the ghost of The Boss is in an AI or some shit, and Big Boss forgot he shot her in the fucking face.
Also, you remember when MG had good villains? Here's a guy named Hot Coldman, he was behind everything all along! And here's a mary sue for wheelchair man to fuck(later she'll fuck her son making wheelchair man commit suicide, and she's literally so perfect we had to turn wheelchair man into a bad guy for this to work)
If Kojimbo had his way, he'd reboot the series and make Big Boss that good guy in every game

>And here's a mary sue for wheelchair man to fuck(later she'll fuck her son making wheelchair man commit suicide, and she's literally so perfect we had to turn wheelchair man into a bad guy for this to work)
Strangelove and the woman Hal fucked were not the same person, Huey remarried and adopted Emma, that woman's daughter.
Strangelove died trying to save her son from his crazy father, I think you can even find her corpse in MGSV.

You should stop taking the whole "ghost" thing so seriously. BB didn't forget anything, it's just the way the MGS' universe works and how it tends to revive dead people all the time, that left a small doubt lingering in the air.

PW's villains are the US and Soviet Union together, alongside with Cipher in the backgrounds.

The whole series is all about the idea of that there are no absolute enemies, no black&white "good & evil". Just different people, with different methods and ideologies, sometimes even working towards the seemingly same goal in all different ways, thus ending up clashing.

>the ghost of the boss is in an AI or some shit
Not a literal ghost, just a core aspect of the AI that captured the essence of her mindset.
>Big Boss forgot he shot her in the fucking face
He never gave any indication that he forgot, unless you mean when he deliberately stated the official record instead of the truth under torture as a soldier like him would.
>Also, you remember when MG had good villains? Here's a dude named Hot Coldman
The series literally opened with a villain named Big Boss.
>he was behind everything all along
Here's your identical twin brother! You're actually a clone of big boss and so is he! Here's your other clone brother, he was the president! Ocelot has been possessed by Liquid's arm! But he rused himself and was just pretending!
Metal Gear has always been full of stupid plots, it was never as profoundly sincere as you seem to believe.
Also Strangelove was a shady bitch and far from a mary sue. And she didn't fuck Otacon because she died in the next game, update your knowledge.
>If Kojimbo had his way, he'd reboot the series and make Big Boss the good guy in every game
Except he made Big Boss a shifty scumbag in MGSV so you're working from outdated and incomplete info again.

nah he's still a good guy by 5, he never really goes nuclear.

>he's still a good guy by 5
After being complicit in the mindrape of one of his most loyal men and letting him assume his role in the world, letting him take the heat and taking the opportunity to slink off into the shadows so he could play the system from behind the curtain while building his mercenary nation in secret? He didn't need to go nuclear, he went the exact same route as every other Metal Gear villain in the series, starting with himself in MG1/2. He became a secretive manipulator working behind the scenes.

>>After being complicit in the mindrape of one of his most loyal men and letting him assume his role in the world, letting him take the heat and taking the opportunity to slink off into the shadows so he could play the system from behind the curtain while building his mercenary nation in secret?
Can you explain this to me, I didn't play the game.

Not that user, but in short, one of the survivors of the helicopter crash was a guy that served as a medic, very capable and very loyal and had about the same build as Snake, which they used to give him facial reconstruction surgery and make him believe he was Snake. Miller was not on it, just Ocelot and Snake himself.
This was done so that Snake could go on doing his business of building a mercenary nation without Zero breathing down his neck, cause as far as everyone was concerned Venom Snake is THE Snake.

Ocelot was slick enough to not be in any danger, but Miller and everyone else were pretty much tossed to the side by him.

Zero hatched a plan to cosmetically alter the comatose combat medic from Ground Zeroes and brainwash him to believe he was Big Boss as a decoy to allow Big Boss himself to escape detection. Ocelot informed Big Boss of this plan, and Big Boss permitted it to go ahead while twisting it to his advantage to take the ball out of Zero's court. At any time he could have decided that his loyalty to his men was as important as theirs to him and told the medic that he was being exploited and work with him openly, but he decided to continue the exploitation for his own benefit and at the expense of the medic himself, whose identity had effectively been entirely consumed by the Big Boss psyche that had been forced upon him except for a tiny fragment of his old identity that just about lingered behind the rest of it.
Big Boss let this happen. He even tells the Medic at the very end at an unspecified point in time after the events of the game, so breaking the news to him was clearly something he could have done at any time, but he didn't. He did was suited him best regardless of what he had to do and who he had to throw under the bus to do it. He escaped the attention of those who were looking to kill him and used the situation to work in secret to build the real Outer Heaven without anyone knowing about it until it was time for him to launch his uprising.

>literally taking in children as soldiers in his base and putting them do labor
>builds / captures nukes, and hides them from the UN
>kidnapped and killed tons of people around the globe
admit it mate, he went nuke long ago

I just stopped caring halfway through PW, I just assumed Strangelove was the chick that cucked Huey
>it's just the way the MGS' universe works and how it tends to revive dead people all the time, that left a small doubt lingering in the air.
SHOT
IN
THE
FACE
>He never gave any indication that he forgot, unless you mean when he deliberately stated the official record instead of the truth under torture as a soldier like him would.
Did you not watch the beginning of PW, where he goes along with the whole thing because there was a tape of The Boss?
>The series literally opened with a villain named Big Boss.
That was the first game that was never meant to get a sequel, and he was later more developed in MG2.
>Here's your identical twin brother! You're actually a clone of big boss and so is he! Here's your other clone brother, he was the president! Ocelot has been possessed by Liquid's arm! But he rused himself and was just pretending!
That was well explained though. It sounds bad out of context, but in context it sounds fine. Hot Coldman in context is still one of the worst villains in the series.
>Metal Gear has always been full of stupid plots, it was never as profoundly sincere as you seem to believe.
It's shit so it doesn't matter if this game is shit!
That's how you sound right now, you have to trash other games to make your shitty portable game look good.
>Except he made Big Boss a shifty scumbag in MGSV
I doubt he intended Big Boss to look like the bad guy, when in GZ he's running around saving prisoners of war and having Here's To You tied to him.
Kojima, since MGS3, has sucked Big Boss off, and in turn ruined his character through all these shitty prequels that are on the level of Star Wars prequels

>SHOT
>IN
>THE
>FACE
Guess who else was shot in the face, multiple times?

And what about literal fucking GHOSTS haunting people?

>Guess who else was shot in the face, multiple times?
Big Boss never knew about him, and in MGS2 he was called a 'bisexual vampire', and it's later explained in MGS4 he was using nanomachines.
That's not a fucking excuse
>And what about literal fucking GHOSTS haunting people?
That's was The Sorrow's special ability and the MGS3 radio crew play it off as Snake hallucinating.

canon big boss doesnt kill people

What's even the point of building a "mercenary nation" though? Is Kojima just obsessed with shitty geopolitical crap?

I'm pretty sure he does not sing them a lullaby when he wants them out of the way. He is a soldier, soldiers kill.

But killing people when he can avoid it would get him on the naughty list.

>Solid snake gets called Snake instead of Solid by his brothers
Why is that?
you know what Solidus should have done? Instead of having a sword fight with Raiden he should have asked him to join them, now that would have screwd up the patriots plan.

It was a plot point in the very first game in the series and featured more prominently still in the sequel. It was just bringing the concept full circle.

You're right, can't risk getting coal from Santa for Christmas.

I dom't understand how what you're asking couldn't just be amswered by paying attention to the games. The outer heaven ideology is one of the least convoluted aspects of this series' gordian knot of themes.

>SHOT
>IN
>THE
>FACE

yes, he got shot, burned to death, was lying in the lowest basementof a base that auto destructed in the midle of africa

if by the time of PW you still don't understand characters can plot twist their way out of death, just stay away from the serie

>admits he hasn't played through the whole series
>still thinks he can talk as if he knows shit
m8 come on you know nobody sees your opinions as credible

Solid Snake has been called just Snake since the beginning, once his brothers started rolling in it would be confusing to call them all Snake, so they were instead called by the adjective part of their names as a way to differentiate. So basically he got Snake cause he was first.

When I learned about the solidus in my materials thermodynamics textbook I threw the book on the floor in shock. And whenever my professors said "solidus" in lectures I giggled like a retard

The difference between Big Boss and The Boss is that Big Boss 'died' when nanomachines were becoming popular, while The Boss died without nanomachines.
>if by the time of PW you still don't understand characters can plot twist their way out of death, just stay away from the serie
'Muh ruse cruise'
Fuck off, I bet you think MG needed more games after 4 and think V means 5.
The prequels were shit, I beat them, but unlike past games, I didn't care enough to get invested and learn more about them. I'm not going to subject myself to more shit than necessary.

I only played the one with the gay dude on the oil platform and one with actual Snake where he was sneaking in the grass and climbing a long ladder.

Wait, you actually missed MGS1, the game that launched the series into fame?
How could you miss that? Go play it before I disown you.

Now that I googled it I'm pretty sure I played the remake, but fuck if I remember anything from it except the old sniper dude.

>old sniper dude
>in MGS1
I see Alzheimer is setting in.

Well then I literally don't remember a single thing from it.

My memories of the 3 (2?) games I played are Ocelot being a young faggot with a red beret, Ocelot being an old faggot in a trenchcoat, finding some naked faggot in the locker room, a fat man with a nuclear bomb (maybe?), Snake becoming president of the US or meeting the president or something, and... that's about it.

Does she take the knot?

>young Ocelot
MGS3
>fat man with a bomb
MGS2
>Snake president of US
MGS2, but not the Snake you're thinking of.
>old Ocelot in trenchcoat
That's a tough one, he likes trenchcoats, but is also often seen without one, although most likely you meant MGS2.

>Trench Coat

It's a Duster, goes with Ocelot's whole Spaghetti Western aesthetic.

Late reply, but during MGS3, we get "The Boss' Dream," where she wanted to believe that one day, soldiers would no longer be used by the governments that employ them, so soldiers could be free to do the right thing. Both Naked Snake / Big Boss and Zero / Cipher misinterpreted that message thanks to their personal experiences, with BB getting a medal for killing his mentor because she refused to compromise her morals, even though the US set her up to take the fall to prolong the war machine and the Cold War, and Cipher hearing her story about how, while in space for just a few minutes, she saw how meaningless borders were.

Cipher, with the Patriots and AI system, sought to tear down all the borders in the world by making it so that there WERE no borders. By establishing a one-world government, which uses AI to sift through, process, and sort all of the information being blasted, as well as using technology to heavily control and police the entire planet, it would end war as we know it because there wouldn't be another country to declare war on. Soldiers would never be abused, because there wouldn't be any soldiers left. No one would have to suffer the pain of combat casualties, or PTSD, or having to kill another human. It would be a perfect world... in Cipher's eyes.

Big Boss wanted to create a mercenary state of soldiers, by soldiers, for soldiers. Other countries would have to come to THEM, on THEIR terms, following THEIR rules, instead of soldiers because told what to do and when to do it by some fat-assed bureaucrat sitting behind a mahogany desk chomping on a Cuban while complaining about communism. Soldiers would choose which wars they fought, who they fought against, and who or what they fought for. Now there would be no meaningless deaths, no unnecessary sacrifices, no doubt as to whether a soldier was doing right or wrong. It would be a perfect world... in Big Boss' eyes.

This is the center of their conflict.

I think it kinda proves both in a way.

Solidus didn't have the training to be a top tier solider. Even if he was using a exoskeleton, without the serious amount of work and effort the other snakes had, he was still perceiving bullets fast enough to chop them down without any optical equipment(he was even missing a eye).

Genes do matter, the snakes are the greatest soldiers in history, they are the blue prints for the ultimate solider. Solidus however squandered his and some twink with a sword was able to defeat him and 24 other metal gear rays.

Both methods are stupid, we're getting the first anyway, and the second requires you to be Israel.

The fact Solidus needed an exoskeleton in the first place is the prime example of how incompetent he was, despite his genes. In real life, I do genuinely believe that there are a select few people who are born superior to others, and no amount of hard work from the rest of the human population could ever equal them. However, in the universe of MG, the message has always been that genes don't matter. Liquid has the "dominant" genes, but loses to the "genetically inferior" Solid because Liquid believed he was inferior his entire life. Solidus, despite being a near-perfect duplicate of Big Boss, fails against Raiden, who underwent extensive military training since his childhood, just as Solid did, not to mention surviving Big Shell, which was a near-perfect recreation of the Shadow Moses incident. In MG's universe, memes are superior to genes.

Both ways ARE retarded, which is why Snake and Otacon, working with Philanthropy, operate against both organizations. Neither of them give a shit about putting some dead lady on a pedestal, all they care about is undoing all the pain and suffering two jackasses having a pissing match for over a century have caused. Neither of them genuinely believed anything, they were just blindly following The Boss' dream, not actually thinking about what they personally believed in.

Over a half-century, even.

>so soldiers could be free to do the right thing
What does that even mean

I should have put that in quotation marks. Whereas the US is heavily against the use of military tactics on hospitals, churches, and civilians (on paper), the Chinese literally give no fucks about it, because the Chinese view their superiority as the primary focus above all else. In the eyes of the US (on paper), sparing women and children is "the right thing", while in China, the success of the country is "the right thing". Rather than having to be a soldier who disagrees with his country's values, but being shipped off to war and being forced to comply under threat of court martial, a free military state with its own set morals that cater to the individual is a far-better alternative to do the "right thing".

>It would be a perfect world... in Big Boss' eye.
ftfy

>tfw to much of a brainlet to understand Kojami

Trying to call anyone of them the "Weakest" or "Strongest" is fucking retarded because Solid in a weakened state kicked Liquid's Ass twice around and also fucked his Metal Gear up

You're fucking stupid if you think MGS has powerlevels beyond comparing people to anyone with snake in their name

Consider that Solidus is a "direct" clone of Big Boss, yet he got his ass handed to him while wearing an exoskeleton by Raiden, who was just a normal human. Now consider that Jetstream Sam, having less than 10% of his body augmented, was able to nearly beat the shit out of Raiden, who was 99% augmented. This would mean Samuel is above Solidus and, considering he was never enhanced, Big Boss as well. Yet Samuel got his ass kicked by Armstrong, who beat the tar out of Raiden and forcing him to revert to his Ripper personality, just like how Monsoon made him do the same thing. Psycho Mantis as a child was capable of fucking up Venom, who was nearly comparable to Big Boss, but ended up losing against Solid, who is a certified genius with an IQ of 180, and was defeated because Solid was able to think his way out of a corner. Liquid is even more intelligent than Solid is, and as a kid tried to play a game of Chicken with Mother Base, losing only because Skullface's crew arrived on the scene.

Yes, Solid and Liquid are probably the two strongest, adaptable, and quick-witted characters in the franchise while in their prime, but there's also a whole slew of characters who completely blow the Snake codename out of the water.

That is why I said it proves it both ways, Solidus would just be another mook if it wasn't for his genes.

Hard work beats talent when talent isn't working very hard. What ultimately prevails is who is working the hardest, considering most of the major players in the series are extremely gifted, even Raiden was considered a monster since his childhood.

Jesus, how can someone have this bad taste.

>fucking perfect sequel to 3
It's a retread of BB's arc in MGS3's ending only adding more nonsensical elements (thinking The Boss is alive, the ghost in the machine, Strangelove and Huey are also pretty bad). The only good thing to come out of that shitshow was Kaz.

So you can fuck off.

no, I won't.
Enjoy (You)r shit taste.