Weapon durability

>Zelda durability
>Weapons degrade fast
>Enemies give you weapons that scale based on your progression even faster than they break
>Enemies come out of the ground at night and deliver them to you just in case you were too lazy to hunt down a camp during the day
>Shrines shower you with OP elemental weapons on top of this
>Always have a million decent-good weapons on deck when one breaks
>System is pointless

>Souls durability
>Weapons degrade very slowly
>Repairing them is so cheap it may as well not even be a thing
>System is pointless

Name one game that implements durability in a way that isn't a pointless, minor annoyance.

Fallout
Oblivion

This. But I'd rather BotW have no durability issues.

>Name one game that implements durability in a way that isn't a pointless, minor annoyance.
there isn't,this is just some thing called "realism" that doesn't belong into video games,because they are supposed to be fun and not a real life simulation

Zeldas durability is an annoyance. They should have made the weapons be like a linear progression without the ability of weapons breaking. You can find and use a bunch of shitty low damage weapons like skeleton arms or shovels or whatever, but getting new swords or a spear costs lots of money and some materials to make.

At a point it was never a problem to have like 10+ weapons on me dealing over 30 damage each but in the beginning it was annoying as fuck for them to break. Or maybe if using them as tools (like to cut down trees or push rocks) didnt wear out the durability and only combat did.

I think games like Oblivion and Morrowind did it best. Your weapons and shit can degrade but you can repair them yourself with the hammer and shit. That was always fine and fun in my opinion.

>ffxiv
>weapons degrade at a moderate rate
>can either repair via an NPC or find a skilled blacksmith to repair it, which can give bonus stats

>Dark Souls 2
>Weapons degrade just right to be a factor and force player to diversify and adapt

Diablo and Diablo 2. Suck my cock op.

just put a Zod and be done with it

It was pointless shit in 2 tho

>Name one
no, anything brought up that actually fits your criteria will be met with
>I meant a GOOD one

fuck your face and fuck your life, souls and zelda sell like hotcakes and your petulant whining will never change that

Fire Emblem

5 years playing and i never found a Zod despite finding over 20 Chams over them and multiple others

>Game sold well
>Therefore, it is immune to criticism
also souls doesn't sell that well

WoW caused armor/weapon durability to drop 10% on death. This wasn't pointless in that it made for consequences if you keep wiping in an instance or raid.

The bethesda titles do a good job. In fallout you repair your weapons through recycling duplicates in worse condition. This made finding duplicate weapons not a bad thing if you decide not to sell.

Is correct in that the durability system had two exceptions that made things interesting, ethereal weapons/armor that were better than normal but couldn't be repaired, and unbreakable/self repairing gear.

Fuck this guy, trying to define fun and video games based on realism levels realism. Why don't all games just get rid of gravity they'd be way more fun right?

BotW durability accomplishes some specific objectives. It keeps weapons as loot valuable since there's always utility in having multiple good weapons, and it means that plundering late game areas is rewarding without breaking the game since you'll eventually wear those weapons down.

Souls durability is retarded in every game that isn't DaS2 where it's frustrating and shitty. All it does is occasionally make you farm or pop a soul if you die with a near broken weapon. I guess you can say it's ammo for the handful of weapons with special attacks that drain durability, but that's basically not a concern outside of DaS2,

Dead Rising did it good

>It keeps weapons as loot valuable since there's always utility in having multiple good weapons
>Kill enemy
>Spiked boko club/Knight's broadsword
>Do a shrine
>Put in an extra 5 IQ points for a secret chest
>Another elemental weapon
lol weapons in this game are fucking worthless

BotW implements the durability system it has because it allows players to go anywhere and do anything in any order immediately.

Some fucking chump kid would break the game by going into lynel territory or hyrule castle and getting lucky and bagging a really powerful weapon at the start of the game and just literally use it the whole game.

This is a legit good reason thanks

The 20th elemental greatsword you get is still useful as opposed to most games where anything that is worse than what you currently have equipped is vendortrash.

At end game, sure. But as you progress throughout the game, getting strong weapons and keeping stronger weapons is a task.

>The 20th elemental greatsword you get is still useful as opposed to most games where anything that is worse than what you currently have equipped is vendortrash.
I wish the elemental weapons were vendor trash in Zelda. 90% of the time my inventory is full of them and I can't even take it.

Wow, what version of BotW did you play? You had a full inventory of elemental weapons during your playthrough of the main dungeons?

I didn't get a full inventory of good weapons until after I beat the game.

>Go to hyrule castle grounds
>Get a bunch of OP regular weapons
>Go to the coliseum
>Get a bunch of OP elemental weapons
WAOW WOT A DIFFECULT SEESTUM THEES IS.

Because you're a brainlet who doesn't get the shrine chests or you're just lazy and don't do shrines.

>use weapons on weaker enemies
>they break
What now homo?

>start the game
>5 weapon slots

uh
how
how did you have room, how did you survive to do all of this with the few weapons you could carry

Use my bethesda fast travel back to the coliseum and restock on them in 2 minutes obviously.

You must have been doing a ton of koroks then. When I was playing I regularly broke most of my good weapons and it was a chore to get more with the limited inventory spaces. I had to prioritize.

The game gives you the freedom to play like this but its really obviously not optimal.

>Don't kill the enemies with good gear the developers put into the game and wanted you to kill

In my original playthrough when I was learning the game, weapon priority was a big thing so I saved the most powerful weapons for bosses or stronger enemies when I got overwhelmed. I didn't have many inventory slots to work with, either, and I would regularly use crappier weapons on weaker enemies and try to conserve my powerful weapons.

I never experienced being overloaded with high quality, really strong items like these anons are saying.

>farming for items in a game where everything drops a weapon on death
Literal autism.

I think he means, stopping your playthrough to go to hyrule and the coliseum and then going back is not optimal.

the weapon thing is a minor annoyance to me but what really annyos the fuck out of me is fucking koroks sitting under a stone on top of huge mountains

>Do some fun, satisfying fights in the coliseum to stock up on good weapons with solid durability
>Waste time killing a camp full of bokoblins for boko clubs that will break in 15 seconds
Clearly the latter is more optimal

I feel like Dark Souls 2 almost had it right. The weapon degradation varies between weapons and is just fast enough that it can be an issue with some of the soul weapons with special attributes. Problem is instead of fine tuning it they threw in a bunch of "gotcha!"'s and bullshit moments in the form of areas and enemies that ambush you and degrade your equipment and not your weapon. So instead of planning a head and being prepared it all gets thrown out the window when a bunch of explodey dudes destroy your rings or you get dropped in a room or bottlenecks with corrosive urns and black phantoms.

>waiting for the next blood moon just to get more weapons
>traveling back to a set location to farm them
They literally put the camps in the game to deter you from doing this and the blood moon to prevent you from doing this. Take the hint.

I almost never ran out of weapons even in the beginning why even do this, pure autism my man

>Why don't all games just get rid of gravity they'd be way more fun right?
ummm... no,but if it was fun then yes

What annoys me is Koroks being so hidden period.

If you don't waste time and weapons killing stupid boko camp #532 full of weak monsters that don't drop anything the weapons will last you between blood moons easily.

Whether it was an issue for you or not, the fucking durability system is in the game so that during a playthrough, kiddies aren't going and getting one single fucking amazing weapon that's unbreakable out of Hyrule Docks or some shit and then using it the whole god damn game because why not.

It's there so you can't just waltz into the high powered areas with 4 or 5 hearts and 5 weapon slots and get the best item in the game.

I dunno, after playing the game for awhile I kinda like it. I feel like if the weapons didn't break then they wouldn't even matter. Every weapon would just get tossed for the next one. But in this game every single weapon is so important. Its a vital resource. It makes finding them feel more significant which feeds back into that desire to explore that the game goes for.

BOTW's system is not pointless, its actually pretty fucking smart

In a game with no real progression in terms of RPG mechanics, the weapon system is pretty much the only way of scaling your power level to the things around you. You cant stick around in areas that are easier than where youve been without running out of the powerful shit and being forced to use weapons that make sense for the enemies youre fighting

Maybe it could have been done better, but i dont see any other game doing it

I'd rather have 1 of each weapon but no durability. Instead of 1000 knight bows or elemental staff, I'd rather just have 1 with no durability. But bring back magic bars. It's makes finding rare weapons actually fun. Instead of finding a rare weapon and just keeping it in the house forever with no use, I'd rather just fucking use it without having to worry about it breaking.
I'm not saying I want all games to get rid of it. It works for some genres. But in zelda it's more annoying than anything.

Once again the game lets you do that, but its not how it was designed and is thus not very fun.

>It's there so you can't just waltz into the high powered areas with 4 or 5 hearts and 5 weapon slots and get the best item in the game.
You literally can though lol. Why do you think going directly to the end of the boss was such a massive selling point shoved down your throat?

BotW is the first game to do weapon durability well, just like its the first game to do open world well

Killing a reskinned mob you've killed a million times with le increased health padded difficulty meme isn't fun either.

Personally I like Zelda durability. I hated it at first but it forced me to use everything available which led to a funner experience for me.

The only time it becomes an issue is when you need the good stuff for the horse faggots or something but I've never run out of good weapons since I just trade out shitty weapons on shit mobs constantly.

It's also extremely gay for the legendary stuff because they are such a pain to grind for. I think they should have had master sword style durability at least.

You literally cannot though. The item will break.

But going back to farm the same exact enemies in the same place every time you need weapons, now that's fun.

Name one game you've played that doesn't use reskinned mobs or mobs with the same tactics but more health/defense.

7 days to die

Killing Lynels and Lizalfos is 10000% more interesting and fun than killing a bunch of fucking bokoblins and maybe a moblin.

Good thing there's Lizalfos camps.

NOTHING about any Zelda game is better than any part of Dark Souls. Bosses, combat, fun, multiplayer, dungeons, DaS is superior in every department. Only a cocksucking Nintendo nostalgiafaggot could possibly disagree.

Strong introduction, lets see how the defense handles this

How about this?

Weapons and equipment can degrade but you can repair them yourself using a skill check and materials or possibly a repairing mini-game to affect the quality of your repairs. If you're not confident, you can visit a shop and use materials and currency to get it repaired to a standard level. It offers the choice of a guaranteed average job, or risking a botch in favor of a very well done repair.

Is there a flaw in this? I can't really think of any from the top of my head.

Where's the fun?

NOTHING about any Dark Souls game is better than any part of Zelda. Bosses, combat, fun, multiplayer, dungeons, TLoZ is superior in every department. Only a cocksucking DaS gitgudfaggot could possibly disagree.

In the mini-game.

It much less tedious than having to hunt or trek to a shop to buy your weapons every time they break.

I understand what purpose the durability system as it stands now has. I think it is a bad system, but its purpose is clear - to ensure players experience what the developers saw as the "fun" way to play the game, changing their weapons instead of getting attached to one particular weapon or weapon type, and to restrain the imbalance of any "disk one nukes" that are found.

Keeping the durability system but allowing repairs - field repairs, at that - removes the purpose of the system. It's less tedious, but unlike the previous incarnation, it also doesn't seem to have a point any more, as all it does is force players to play a minigame periodically rather than alter how they play, much like how durability systems in a lot of games basically boil down to "remember to click "repair all" at a merchant every now and then". At that point, it would be better to simply cull the system altogether.

Oboro Muramasa did it the best in that broken/inactive weapons recharged and swapping to a new weapon cause a screen-wide attack. It gave the thrill of constant tension without breaking game tempo.

>but in the beginning it was annoying as fuck for them to break.
The point of that was to get you to think on your feet and don't just rely on your weapons in combat, but also on all the other options you have. I agree that the durability in general could have been a bit longer lasting, but I think in general it is well implemented. It serves a purpose in early game, and isn't an annoyance in late game, while also getting you to explore more in mid game.

i like this

how i would do the weapon system in botw different:

>champion gear: as is (after the first, need a "tier 2 rarity" weapon + materials + specific blacksmith)
>elemental: tier 1 rarity (only in shrines, but materials + specific blacksmith can make them)
>high damage weapons: tier 2 rarity (lynels and hynox, or you can use materials + any blacksmith)
>regular weapons: tier 3 rarity (advanced mobs, or purchase from blacksmith)
>shit weapons: common (regular mobs, and available from shops)
>link can learn how to smith (as he can learn to cook) and is able to make tier 3 and common weapons

that, of course, would demand a few extra cities/settlements and a more populated hyrule

The Zelda model but where they last much longer and are rarer does work. Maybe a system where they can be repaired, but each time they are they permanently lose maximum durability.

That's fair enough. My idea was to have the rate of degradation nowhere near close to the modern games "Only get 20 hits/shots before breaking completely" system, making the mini-game not so common, but worth it for valuable weapons as part of a risk/reward system.

The point about the current system being designed around having players not get too attached to any one weapon seems to be moot anyway as the system itself deters people from using their best weapons for difficult encounters on the premise that it's not worth it.

A system that is too strict will have players using the same, weak weapons much like the common problem that people save all their healing items for a boss, only to never use them for fear of it not being worth it. How many people finish a game, stocking up on the max amount of whatever the game considers a health potion, only to use a few and rely on any other means available?

The method I proposed seems to be fair enough to allow a smooth gameplay experience for the most part.

I can't. If the durability system actually matters it's annoying, if it doesn't then it's pointless busywork. Bloodborne's weapons have durability but you barely notice it because they degrade so slowly, get restored if you upgrade them, and are cheap as fuck to repair. The mechanic might as well not even exist at that point.

In BotW's case, it's kind of fun in certain specific instances, but overall it really damages the character progression. None of your weapons are a permanent upgrade to your kit, they're always fleeting, and they scale with enemies so you never feel any more or less powerful. The only exception is the Master Sword but even that has durability, the only difference is that it goes on a cooldown timer instead of breaking.

In some games like Paint The Town Red, weapon durability is implemented to force the character to constantly keep scavenging for new weapons, instead of just finding one OP weapon and sticking with it.

I always thought Dark Soul's durability was in place to limit the overuse of certain weapons between checkpoints. Crystal weapons have their damage offset by having irreparable durability loss, while special weapons suffer heavy durability loss when you use their special abilities.

Well, in BotW's case, the game focuses more on exploration than on character progression. If you find a devent weapon in BotW you will usually be happy about it and pick it up (unless you are hundred hours into the game and keep farming lynels). And in the early game the durability system forces you to think outside of the box and use your runes, your surroundings, the glider and stealth to win fights (that's the reason why the island trial is so satisfying, it is a vertical slice of the early game).

So, like with all mechanics, you have to ask yourself wether it serves the game's main point. You can argue that the durability was not implemented well in BotW, but you should acknowledge that a certain amount of thought went into it by the developers.

You can also just rush Hyrule castle every blood moon and just get Royal Weapons that will last an eternity

>the game focuses more on exploration than on character progression

Well you see this is supposed to be a Zelda game, in which case those two things should be intertwined. This applies even to the very first game. You explore the world, find a key item or a heart, and it directly helps you with completing the game. There's no sidegrades, there's no trigger that causes reskinned enemies to start spawning, etc. There's a very clear and straightforward progression system. In my opinion that's a thousand times more satisfying than BotW's mostly wishy-washy system where you get most of your tools at the start, have some initial challenge, and then find a ton of ways to break the game into a million pieces. The game never throws enemy encounters at you that are any tougher than your first lynel (at least in the base game), the enemies scale with the weapons so there's never a paradigm shift, and the game doesn't introduce any new mid/late-game enemy types. Even the spirit orbs are an abstraction, they're useless by themselves and you can never "max out" on hearts and stamina simultaneously. Everything about Breath of the Wild's progression screams "ambiguous", there's very little form or substance to it.

>you should acknowledge that a certain amount of thought went into it by the developers

What an absurd thing to say. Execution is way more important than concept, when I'm playing the game I'm not thinking
>hmmm I might not like this system but the developers worked REALLY HARD on it so I should be more forgiving
I'm focused on the video game.

>System is pointless
Say that to DS2 SotFS durability matters in that

Maybe Dead rising?

>Well you see this is supposed to be a Zelda game, in which case those two things should be intertwined.
You should focus less on what it is "supposed" to be in your mind, and focus on what it is. Aonuma himself said they wanted to break with Zelda tradition here, so maybe progression just isn't the point this time. I agree with a lot of your criticism, but you should see games for what they are. Aonuma himself said they wanted to break with Zelda tradition here, so maybe progression just isn't the point this time.

Anyway, I think enemies scale with how many of them you have killed, not with what weapons you carry. And that thing about the spirit orbs is really picky nitpicking.

>What an absurd thing to say. Execution is way more important than concept, when I'm playing the game I'm not thinking
>hmmm I might not like this system but the developers worked REALLY HARD on it so I should be more forgiving
>I'm focused on the video game.
I threw that in because a lot of people seem to shit on the durability system because they didn't get what it was there for, and in return didn't play the game in a way that it was fun.

I want a shooter with realistic bullet mechanics instead of durability. At the start of the level you pick your loadout and get maybe 3-4 mags in reserve. Once those are done, you have to scavenge weapons from dead enemies. Enemy weapons have at most a full mag. Idea is to keep moving forward and killing dudes to make sure you always have weapons/ammo. Throw in some decent FPS melee combat/takedowns a'la the first Mirror's Edge and a quick pace to the flow of the game to top everything off.

True. I liked the fact that the durability actually made enemies dropped guns worth my time and picking up. Recycling guns to maintain your guns was a good way of doing it.

In general durability sucks tho, it's put into too many games that don't need it.

It should really only be in a survival type of gamr.

>Get a sword that knights used
>Breaks in like 15 swings of normal sword use

Here's my take on improving the Zelda system.
>weapon durability rate stays about the same or weapons are stronger but less frequent
>have each weapon type have more utility and moves based around them rather than the flat 1hand, 2hand, staff and wands. also have disposable weapons like Spears stackable but do more damage when thrown and less when used as a melee weapon (polearms are inversed of course)
>have it when weapons break they give you fragments
>you can use fragments and base weapons to make weapons from smiths in the different towns, mixing monster parts and other things to add effects to them.
>crafted weapons are more durable and can be reforged at low durability but have to be remade entirely if broken or lost.
>make dungeons/puzzles based around specific weapons, though this is more based on level design not the weapons themselves

seriously the biggest issue with Zeldas system is that much like crafting food/elixirs, it's really bare bones. Sure blunt stuff breaks rocks and boxes better and axes are good for trees but it feels like there's a lack of variety when it comes to combat.

That's a reason sure, but the original Zelda was go-anywhere from the beginning and it didn't have durability. Instead it had soft zones where enemies hit harder and soaked more damage. Without enough health or damage, you'd die very quickly.

While you're kinda right, BotW fucks up your own argument because getting powerful weapons early forces the game to scale up regardless.

I did a play through where I scavenged the castle a bit right off the bat. Afterwards enemies were mostly high tiered with end game weapons.

it was, especially when the old ability system used the weapon durability for charges rather than magic
now it's pointless

It seems to in fact be based, at least in part, off what you're carrying based on my experience doing

i like weapon durability in BoTW but there should have been a way to repair and enhance the ones you like. like a 5th smithy fairy or something in Hebra

You understand that in MMOs repair costs / travel costs exist to remove currency from the "economy", right?

Anything else is just a bonus.

Souls durability isn't pointless when you're fighting enemies like Gaping Dragon or Sinh who can degrade your weapons

I know that you anons wouldn't care about any other opinion about weapon durability so I'll share what I found that has been generally agreed upon by most players:
>The weapon degradation causes a great deal of Too Awesome to Use, where players pick up rare weapons, but fear actually using them in case they need them later and end up having inventories clogged up with weapons for "just in case", or just straight-up avoiding battles altogether. This also ties into the inventory management of the game. The menus themselves are usually precise and clear, but you have to scroll through a lot of junk if you have a full inventory.
>This also makes shield surfing almost useless until you increase your inventory size — shield surfing puts a constant drain on your chosen shield, burning through its durability very quickly. While shield surfing is very fun, the sheer strain it places on your equipment is too much for long sessions, resulting in the mechanic not being used as often as it should at best, and barely being used at all at worst. It's a real shame, because shield surfing is awesome.

Well the knights using them all died so

>most of the items in Breath of the Wild are at least 100 years old
>most items break easily
Deepest lore.

>Start of game, weapons are scarce
>Everything is half broken or more
>All weapons do shit dmg due to this
>Get past beginning of game
>Enough weapons drop from everything that you can keep everything fully repaired at all times
>System makes beginning obnoxious, and is pointless after 1/4 of the game

Yeah, great.

Star Wars Galaxies

>Favorite weapons are the ancient weapons you can craft at the tech lab or pick off of guardian scouts
>My face when they break like they're made of fucking glass

tests of strength respawn every bloodmoon. get to farming friend.

>tests of strength respawn every bloodmoon
They do? Thanks senpai I didn't know that

I actually don't have to if I use the Savage Lynel Bow exploit, but it still makes me sad how quickly my inventory of ancient weapons gets depleted due to their weak durability.

>go to hyrule castle semi early
>go to armory
>put down warp medallion point there
>warp back every bloodmoon for awesome weapons