Banjo Tooie is more flawed than its predecessor Kazooie, but if you simply fix...

Luke Anderson
Luke Anderson

Banjo Tooie is more flawed than its predecessor Kazooie, but if you simply fix the major flaws it would be a better game than Kazooie.
Just make less minigame-based Jiggies/collectables and either remove or streamline the Mumbo gameplay. Bam, instantly 10/10 game.

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All urls found in this thread:

banjosbackpack.com/

Jaxon Sanchez
Jaxon Sanchez

ok

Brayden Jenkins
Brayden Jenkins

Tooie simply isn't fun.

Colton Watson
Colton Watson

This is a perfectly fine opinion.

Parker Richardson
Parker Richardson

banjo Tooie is worse because of sections that aldont use the games core moveset
When the core moveset was never anything to write home about in the first place
Tooie is the better game.

Nathaniel Flores
Nathaniel Flores

Weren't there LESS collectibles in this game compared to the first? You never even find single notes, eggs, or feathers anywhere

Julian Ward
Julian Ward

if you simply fix the major flaws
way too much backtracking is hard to fix
not enough worlds is impossible to fix

Zachary Lewis
Zachary Lewis

switch ports when?

Luke Wright
Luke Wright

Tooie is exactly what a sequel should be. It keeps all the old moves and expands upon them, it makes levels that are more complicated than the first game because it assumes you've played through the first one so just copying it for the sequel would be boring.
Regardless whether or not you think they succeeded in this aspect, this is the correct attitude to have.

Ryan Price
Ryan Price

I will say, in Kazooie's defense, one flaw about Tooie is that it some moves are straight up upgrades or replace the old loves. I cannot for the life of me remember more than 1 or 2 spots you use the Z+B move or the Z+CDown reverse egg firing. The old ground pound is replaced with the drill beak, and I do not remember a single use for normal eggs after you get fire and grenade eggs.
It had 1 less level, meaning only 10 less jiggies and 100 less notes.
While yes the notes were all in nests, I don't think it makes much of a difference from the original game- you almost always found notes in groups of 2-6 in the first place in Kazooie. I will say the Treble Cleft is probably at fault why note collecting was too easy for Tooie.

Aiden Stewart
Aiden Stewart

not enough worlds
there are 9 in both games if i'm remembering correctly, and isle o hags is much more complex than grunty's tower

William Roberts
William Roberts

Game is bad but if you make all the bad stuff not bad it becomes good
When you were young did the doctor ever tell your mother you were 'artistic', user?

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Adrian Evans
Adrian Evans

Why do people have qualms with the backtracking? It's done so well with many pathways between worlds and Chuffy, making traveling about as long as going across a single map. Now DK64 was pure hell for backtracking, but that's neither here nor there.

Hunter Jackson
Hunter Jackson

And get rid of the back tracking.

Matthew Wilson
Matthew Wilson

Tooie is best because you get to play as best girl.
Humba is good too

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Josiah Perry
Josiah Perry

I always liked Tooie considerably more. Never understood the complaints it gets.

Andrew Scott
Andrew Scott

the FPS sections are fucking cancer

Luke Evans
Luke Evans

While yes the notes were all in nests, I don't think it makes much of a difference from the original game

It was a huge difference, since you rarely found notes in out of the way locations and you never needed to 'run' a level to collect them in one go since they stuck even if you dies or left. This is actually the game's biggest weakness compared to the first.

Kevin Gonzalez
Kevin Gonzalez

People want tiny levels and singular collectibles.
Which is weird because I don't even think BK is big in the speedrunning community like M64 is.

Elijah Rivera
Elijah Rivera

I knew someone was going to reply this.
I never said it was bad, I said it had more flaws, but that often happens when games try grander concepts for gameplay and length. Thank fuck they designed the warp pads so you can zoom around focal points on the map. Fundamentally, Tooie is literally everything about Kazooie but better ASIDE from the aforementioned Mumbo sections and over-saturated generic mini-games.

Landon Phillips
Landon Phillips

Would've been good on the Xbox remakes if I'd didn't keep pulling your aim back to ground-level

Chase Carter
Chase Carter

The old ground pound isn't replaced. Switches and the bounce house in witchyworld don't work with the drill pound off the top of my head.

Xavier Ward
Xavier Ward

You could hold the most normal eggs so it was the "I wanna conserve my better ammo" option.

Brayden Garcia
Brayden Garcia

But they changed that even in the MS version of BK. People clearly viewed that as a fault in the original game, not a plus.

Juan Robinson
Juan Robinson

bt has 17 notes per world

do a 100% run of bk in 1 sitting
now try it with bt

Connor Moore
Connor Moore

See game over Grungy
Get boner
Remember all the disgusting shit her sister tells you she does and will continue to do
Get more boners

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Oliver Phillips
Oliver Phillips

do a 100% run of bk in 1 sitting
this is only a good thing if you're a speedrunner. otherwise it's a good thing that they made it more complex in the sequel. If there was a third game they should have added even more.

Kayden Roberts
Kayden Roberts

I'd like to argue against that.
DK 64 was worse about easy banana collecting- ignoring the Kong-color correlation, DK 64 bunched many same colored bananas in the same few spots, making collecting them very easy regardless of if in bunches or singles. What difference does it make if this one slope as 5 singles or 1 nest sitting on it? Only I can think of is how fun it is to collect something, which I actually think would be a decent argument.

Tyler Barnes
Tyler Barnes

Oh trust me user, they added a lot more in the third one ;^)

Bentley Foster
Bentley Foster

posting best Rare collectathon

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Justin Reed
Justin Reed

Probably because you had to go switch kongs and then go find that one line of 5 bananas or 3 coins of that certain color. It was obnoxious.

Cooper Edwards
Cooper Edwards

STOP

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Mason Lopez
Mason Lopez

I considered they made it easier to compensate. Though that won't stop them from
linear dungeon with Lanky Kong>get golden banana at end
Tiny balloon spawns
gotta run all the way back and all the way back through just to get 10 tiny Tiny bananans

Jack White
Jack White

I didn't know Jontron was in the original BK

Wyatt Clark
Wyatt Clark

Fun
Maintains the original games charm and identity
Interesting twist on the formula

Can we finally start realizing how underrated this game is? Sure, it isn't exactly what people wanted, but now that it's pretty much set in stone we are NEVER going to get Banjo 3, I think it's about time people enjoy pic related for what it is.

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Cooper James
Cooper James

Is this an edit?

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Brayden King
Brayden King

It goes deeper than you think

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Elijah Nelson
Elijah Nelson

god fucking dammit

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Zachary Phillips
Zachary Phillips

Nobody ever talks about the GBA game. For a SBA title it was pretty well done, though depth perception was bad.

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Christopher Brown
Christopher Brown

What difference does it make if this one slope as 5 singles or 1 nest sitting on it?

In that case, nothing, but it fucks over all the 2 and 3 note bunches that were common. You're also ignoring how poorly hidden the notes in Tooie were, they were practically all just sitting there along some main path and there's no risk to getting any of them. There's nothing in Tooie like what you have to go through in Rusty Bucket Bay or Click-Clock Wood. I still think Tooie is great though.

Cooper Fisher
Cooper Fisher

Let me pose this question then- who did them the best?
Personally I think Kazooie Xbox port did best- making collection permanent but singles. If they released a collectathon that did DK-style mixed groups/numbers that would be cool too.

Owen Allen
Owen Allen

Too "wide", too much retreading of old ground. Also suffers from move-shaped-keys to obstacle-shaped-locks because it starts you with your entire BK moveset.

Some things (like having jiggies be currency to unlock moves, splitting up Banjo and Kazooie, and superior flight/underwater controls & combat) are better, and the overworld has more charm, but overall it's a worse game.

Funnily enough the abundance of minigames is one of my favorite parts of Tooie.

Jaxon Phillips
Jaxon Phillips

Currentmy playing through it again and having a great time, it's a lot of fun if you like thinking up stupid ways of solving tasks. I admit I was way more creative about it 10 years ago (this game is a decade old holy shit).
My favorite this playthrough is this one challenge where you have to defend objects around the map from Grunty for a specific time limit and instead of killing her repeatedly or blocking the shots, I essentially just grappling hooked my vehicle to hers and dragged her around the map.

Joshua Murphy
Joshua Murphy

Tooie did what it was supposed to do for the time: Be a sequel to Kazooie. What sequel do you know keeps ALL your old moves and gives you new ones atop of everything else? That shit blew my mind. Very few games do that. The interconnected world was a plus as well, making the large world feel alive and organic. All of the minigames were fun, too and you had multiplayer to look forward to as well.

If you didn't play it at the time, you couldn't understand how much it did and just why it was well-received. Atlantis is probably my favorite area of the game.

Tyler Hughes
Tyler Hughes

This also. If they stayed with Nintendo, we could have had Stop N' Swap properly implemented with this game.

Kayden Sanchez
Kayden Sanchez

This
It ruined metroid for me because i was always confused as to why samus loses all of her cool upgrades between games.

Camden Ortiz
Camden Ortiz

Even with the flaws it's still far better than the first game.

John Taylor
John Taylor

Loved this game as a kid. As far as those shitty topdown portable sequels of 3d games go, this one was exceptional

Jeremiah Young
Jeremiah Young

Sup guys :^)

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Austin Harris
Austin Harris

Guys I would literally be able to die happy if Nintendo got the rights to old Rare IPs and made a Banjo Threeie.

Ayden Lee
Ayden Lee

It was cool until you were unlocking stupid shit like ice eggs and such.

Ayden Richardson
Ayden Richardson

They could have possibly been more creative with it, but the philosophy was correct.
If you had to go around unlocking the flypads and talon trot again the game would have been way worse than either game we have now.

Kevin Wilson
Kevin Wilson

The problem is it's a fantastic idea in the abstract but quickly leads to moveset fatigue.

There was no way to pace BT like BK without either re-treading old moves or making some of them barely useful move-shaped-keys.

Juan Baker
Juan Baker

If you remove everything bad about a game it becomes good
Wow OP, you should make games

Eli Russell
Eli Russell

see

Leo Gomez
Leo Gomez

The GBA game was fucking terrible, that's why.

Brayden Jones
Brayden Jones

All those hours spent watching conspiracy videos on YouTube until 2 in the morning

Andrew Rodriguez
Andrew Rodriguez

but even bk wasn't paced well. You had two three levels without any moves to unlock at all, and two levels where you just unlock boots which are also just move-shaped-keys.

Both games would arguably lose nothing from just giving you all the moves right from the start.

Gabriel Turner
Gabriel Turner

Hope you enjoyed your useless cosmetic vehicle parts!
-Rare

Wyatt Nguyen
Wyatt Nguyen

two three
two OR three. MMM, RBB, and CCW if iirc

Evan Young
Evan Young

things are better if you fix the things that make them bad
Who knew?

Camden Mitchell
Camden Mitchell

fix the flaws in tooie
it's better than kazooie
fix the flaws in kazooie
tooie is still better

Brayden Barnes
Brayden Barnes

SM64 gets a shitload of romhacks
BK/BT get nothing
why?

Cooper Taylor
Cooper Taylor

Ever heard of Banjo's backpack?

Henry Hughes
Henry Hughes

I only know that it's pretty cool and sometimes termites want it

Ayden Bennett
Ayden Bennett

banjosbackpack.com/
check it out, my dude. some romhacks came from this, but Ive never played them so I cant attest,

John Richardson
John Richardson

I remember seeing some hacks for Kazooie, but it was still early in development. Good to see some more come from it.

Xavier Phillips
Xavier Phillips

if you simply fix the major flaws it would be a better game
HOLY SHIT

Landon Cox
Landon Cox

Holy fuck, this. They haven't aged well in the slightest.

Jeremiah Collins
Jeremiah Collins

100% agreed. I wish more people would acknowledge this. Both games are great independently too.

Christopher Sullivan
Christopher Sullivan

Best Banjo game.
Well, second best, but still...

Mason Turner
Mason Turner

I also agree

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Noah Russell
Noah Russell

If you make Tooie not Tooie it's better than Kazooie
Really makes you think

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