Why does everyone single job ask for Java or C++ or (windows related languages) experience...

Why does everyone single job ask for Java or C++ or (windows related languages) experience? I mean literally 99 % of programming jobs.

Why is python almost never mentioned? Is it really such a meme language? What kills it? Its slowness?

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eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Python-Slithers-into-Systems
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Broken threading, single core

Python is programming for non-programmers.
If you want to use python, look for a job at a startup doing data analysis.

Sup Forums - career advice and job prostects

>Why does every single job ask for experience in two of the most popular and practical languages with the most amount of libraries for industrial use?
Gee, op. I don't know.

...

HHAH I laughed but then I realised you're completely correct.

This. Systems administration and NumPy with a few scripting projects like scapy.

Java and C++, usually on Windows, is where the work is.

There are plenty of Python jobs on the West Coast. However, the vast majority of well-paying programming jobs I have seen are either for C# or Java. That's what the Enterprise™ uses, and they make $.

JavaScript is also a good choice. Although it's not 100% mature, node.js replace the majority of your spaghetti Python codebase. It also is what browsers use, so it is easy to find jobs if you know some common UI workflows (multi-step wizards, form submission + validation, AJAX). For the front-end skills, I recommend Angular and jQuery.

The truth is that a developer needs to know a lot of languages.

Just learn Java and JavaScript and you'll be just like me.

If you don't know SQL you have no business programming anything. All software interacts with data in some way.

>does everyone single job ask for ... (windows related languages) experience

Because despite what jobless fucks on Sup Forums tell you, every business runs Windows exclusively. Startups like using Nodejs, and Rails before it, but corporations only use ASP.NET

Its only fast if the computational parts are written in C. The standard library already is. Also its easy to attract retards I wouldnt advertise for python devs even if I needed them.

This data analysis and ai shit. Basically it works because someone already wrote everything you need in c and you just make a script to put it together.

This.

I have to keep a windows dual boot on my laptop just for the fucked software that they run some of their shit on.

because, historically, for programming the progression has gone thusly...

c -> c++ -> java -> swift

whereas for scripting its gone...

sh -> perl -> python

ie, python is seen (cos it is) as a scripting language.

Which was clearly the point of the graph in the context of this thread

posts like this depress me
I am fully committed to python as platform / development, over and above java

there is nothing wrong with python at all as a 100% production (enterprise) development langauge -- I don't see why people have to cut it down

c++ is horrible for databases

Agreed, 90% of programs speed doesn't matter so much or is bottlenecked by IO rather than CPU. Python allows for much simpler systems which require way less developer time - and far less mistakes. Java and C++ projects are just massive clusterfucks of shit because developers are fucking bad.

you dont think that if there was more python it too wouldnt turn to shit "because developers are fucking bad"?

sure, some are always going to turn to shit. but it'd be considerably less shit than say enterprise systems written in java

>considerably less shit

Why? I mean I hope you're right, but I dont have a lot of faith in my fellow programmers. I've yet to see a language that could inhibit shittyness. Which is what you seem to be suggesting python could do?

The language overall is simpler to understand syntactically and has lots of basic features that make using ridiculous design patterns unnecessary. Simple things like default args also make creating backwards and forwards compatible APIs much simpler.
Anywhere you can remove complex design patterns from a system is a plus for me.

Don't get me wrong though, a language is never going to be able to stop people from doing stupid shit, code reviews and testing is always going to be a thing.

Hmm, interesting, thanks. Havent done any python, just perl, ruby, sh etc

>remove complex design patterns

Yaah agreed. People who try to put patterns into a design have misunderstood patterns and just overcomplicate things. They're meant to emerge, but I digress.

Big corporations are developing software today exactly the same way they did in 1994. They use C++ or Java for everything. Alternately, they use C# for everything, brand themselves a .NET house, and publicly flog any employee who mentions the existence of a technology stack not sold by Microsoft.

They send legions of analysts to write reams of technical documents and specifications, defining the problems in the most complex way possible. Nothing may be done with a single function that can be done with two interfaces, six classes, five layers of abstraction, and an original networking protocol built on UDP.

Everyone in the company is covering their ass 24/7. Literally everything is done in such a way as to absolve the individual of blame. The codebase is a mountain of spaghetti so complex that following a stack trace can drive a sane man mad and a mad man sane, yet nothing is ever improved because to do so would require admitting that design decisions made when Bush Sr was president were a bad idea. A rigid pyramid of authority exists among egomaniacs so fanatically assured of their own perfection that the suggestion that designs of a senior employee are less than the immaculate truth is met with harsh re-education at first and sodomy ever again.

The barest possibility of writing good code has been abandoned long ago. When the next iteration is inflicted upon the engineers, they hope only that they are able to avoid increasing the bug count by more than a factor of two. QA is so understaffed that they have only now started testing code from eight months ago, so the developers whisper prayers to impotent gods that they are able to make nonnegative progress before performance reviews.

I guess what I'm getting at is there's not much chance the big corps are switching to Python anytime soon.

>People who try to put patterns into a design have misunderstood patterns and just overcomplicate things. They're meant to emerge
You don't know hell until, during a code review, someone tells you to refactor your five-line function to use a Visitor Pattern that would require introducing two interfaces and four different methods, because it would "remove unnecessary conditionals"

I feel your pain brother.

Next time you're looking for a job, go for a company (usually small) where what you're working on is there core business not just a support to their business.

Its not a guarantee, but it seems to raise the odds on them not being idiots.

Also learn to spot that shit at the interview, ask them deep questions on how they do stuff.

Haha, it's such a shame that most teams tend to operate with one "smart" person telling all the others what to do.

Yeah thats bullshit.

To quote Fowler...

"You can change your organization or change your organization."

The "smart" person in question had a loathing for the keyword if that he would profess as loudly as possible as often as he could. He would go to any lengths, and I do mean ANY lengths, to avoid writing a condition. The man committed crimes against hash maps that would warrant death if brought before international courts. He had an equally passionate love of flowcharts, and would reject a design in seconds if it didn't have enough inheritance and polymorphism.

He was, as you've probably extrapolated, a die-hard lover of OOP. We were using C++, and he would reject any use of C simply on principle. Using function pointers during one of his hash map blasphemies? No! "That's a C-ism!" (a phrase he would spout anytime he saw code that was criminally un-verbose) Instead, create an interface that overloads operator() and implement it as a separate class for each necessary function.

Software engineering in the midwest is suffering.

I'm graduating soon and this thread scares me.

The most important thing is to suss them out at the interview. Ask questions, ask them how they do software, in depth, in detail.

ayyyyyylmao he triggered u into replying

Python is slow as hell.

So I'm just making video games right now and I easily know C++. Does this mean if I ever feel like joining some fortune company, I can just sign up and list my experience and get a job?

probably because you live in a shit tier town that only offers "enterprise" gigs

my company works with python, ruby, scala and JS and the one i'm about to work on runs go, erlang, python and JS

gtfo the midwest and you'll see shit that isnt java or cpp

>Javascript over C++

How is that weird at all?
Javascript is used for both web frontend and backend.
Do you know how large web development is?

>every business runs Windows exclusively
How delusional are you?
There's literally tens of thousands of open software development and software architecture positions that don't involve Wintendo.

My last job was about 20% Python and 80% Java.
Python for scripting and as a glue language.
Java for back-end processing and for J2EE web services

Comfy. I liked it.

Java is a jack-of-all-trades, it's widely used in enterprise, it has a whole ecosystem (Android), it's good for the web (despite everyone in San Fran thinking you need Rails or Node these days), and it's capable for desktop software too (and the runtime environment is pretty fast these days). I wouldn't really call Java a "Windows language". It's just that most businesses use Windows. C++ is only a "Windows language" in the sense that it's widely used in game dev and most gaming is focused on Windows.

You mainly see Python jobs posted for web dev positions, but I still see the majority of those jobs asking for PHP outside of the hipster tech cities.

>large web development in JavaScript
Nice meme, but that will be PHP + some framework that autogenerates all the client-side JavaScript for you.

Not without practice.

Scripting in game maker is hardly enough.

If a language('s runtime) is 10x slower than another, you will need 10x beefier hardware to run it, which quickly becomes expensive unless it's an application that's so trivial that it won't use a significant portion of the resources. And who knows how much slower Python really is in parallel tasks, thanks to the GIL.

People would never implement anything critical in Python. I know that you people look at shithub statistics and thing "oh gee, the top 100 C++ projects have the most bugs, but the top 100 Python projects have only a fraction! This proves that Python and dynamic typing leads to bugfree software!"
But it doesn't. It's just that nobody would ever implement anything complex in Python or anything with dynamic typing. Nobody sane, at least.

>Why does everyone single job ask for Java or C++ or (windows related languages) experience?

Because Java and C (sometimes C++) are the "lingua franca" of programming.

Even if you devellop in something completely differnt, peopel will expect some basic knowledge of Java and/or C.

In other words:
If you really want to completely avoid Java you need to know C (and vice versa).


>I mean literally 99 % of programming jobs.

Nah bro.
There are a lot of "pure" Java jobs out there, but also many jobs where Java is just listed among other languages.


>Why is python almost never mentioned? Is it really such a meme language?

I don't know where you look (or live), but in europe you have a lot of jobs for python. OF course it's moreoften a "opt in", but there are also pure Python jobs, for example as Django developer.


>What kills it? Its slowness?

Nothing "kills it".

Python has it's place, but understand that it was intended as replacement for bash. If you are into scientific computing, want to work at the university or want to become a security expert / penTester, Python is the number one language.

For large scale applications, companies or WebDev other langauges are better.

Kek'd and saved.
I'm still in college, writing away at tiny, comfy projects with a couple of friends, and I dread the day when this will end and I will transition into wagecuckery

Ill bring in another perspective.

I actually started a 3D printing company with some friends.

I've done a little python on the robotics side of things, but I know next to nothing about "real" programming languages.

Our IT guy is a god at Java and SQL, and he is working on overhauling the website.

Im not officially the CEO, but I kind of am the one giving out Instructions. What kind of environment is most condusive to getting quality coding done? should I just let him plan it all out himself, or be on him like green on grass?

Since we own the company, so long as its legal we can do pretty much whatever we want. so, those of you who don't like your coding jobs, what would you fix or want to be different? Any suggestions on how to encourage the IT guy?

Still better than MATLAB

>Broken threading, single core
You just spin up more instances of Python, dumbass.

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING

eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Python-Slithers-into-Systems

Python Slithers into Systems

exactly WHAT are you requiring that makes you think python is "slow as hell" -- as with anything isolate, write whatever needed in something lower level. This is an out-of date troll "slow" -- akin to "linux is not ready for the desktop. Nobody here has ever employed python. "slow" -- compared to what? the speed of light?

You are really advocating multiple procceses? You know how fucking stupid that is? Hur durr ill use sockets to communicate between interpreters.

>what is horizontal scaling
>what is SOA

You are smart enough to know vertical scaling is required for computing. There is a reason we don't compute everything on GPUs. Many functions CANNOT be made fast horizontally.

Switching languages isn't vertical scaling. Python scales just fine vertically.

Are you retarded?