Linux has an office suite

>Linux has an office suite
>Linux has web browsers
>Linux is free
>Linux is efficient
>Linux is popular among people with weaker hardware because of how well it runs

Why don't cheap netbooks ship with Ubuntu or Ubuntu mate instead of windows 10?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Because
youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI

Things are better now though.
You don't needba verizon cd, you just turn on the Wi-Fi and connect. Everything has been dumbed down.

They do, Chromebooks are getting more and more popular

Because the user experience is fucking shit, still.

Trying to use it with multi high dpi monitors is a nightmare too.

But most netbooks ship with a 1366x768 screen. Not high dpi.

Don't chromebooks need an internet connection to function properly? I've never used one, so sorry if I say anything that sounds stupid or ignorant.

Also I forgot media players. Linux has media players too.

>Things are better now though.
True, however even back then it was ridiculous, spreading FUD and thrash-talking their competitors is how Microsoft rolls, they instructs their employees for manipulating opinions and they buy positive reviews because they know that keeping their competitors with a low marketshare makes them much harder to compete and with that they can lock their users with their formats and APIs. The consequence is that now i wouldn't use a MS product even for free if it's not absolutely necessary.

forgot to attach pic.

Microsoft pays OEMs to include their shitware on their devices, OEMs accept Microsoft's bribed bceause 1) it's free money and 2) people are more likely to buy hardware running Windows. Netbooks used to ship with Linux (see: original eeePC) and a lot of people didn't buy them for that exact reason, which is why they now ship with Windows.

Nah. Chromebooks are just a modified form of Gentoo. They're slightly crippled, but you can still do a lot with them.
The main limitation is that most only have 8-16GB of storage.

Because W10 is free for

It's not pretty
It's not intuitive
It's not widely used
It requires hours to study to become a semi-competent user
Your software choices are severely limited, and due to the lack of a profit motive, they're typically ugly and buggy
You often run into problems that require hours of googling and message board searching


In short, the average consumer just wants to get his simple tasks done without having to first achieve an unusually high level of technical competency first.

Just look at the friendly linux thread. You'll have your answer. It's not user friendly.

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's bad for the average user

Of course, the typical response to this is "WELL THEY SHOULDNT BE DUMB", so I never expect to see linux marketshare to increase by any meaningful amount.

>it's not pretty
debatable
>it's not intuitive
my 50 year old mother has been using Ubuntu without my help for two years
>it's not widely used
not an argument
>it requires hours to study to become a semi-competent user
so does Windows
>Your software choices are severely limited, and due to the lack of a profit motive, they're typically ugly and buggy
applies to most, but not all software on Linux
>You often run into problems that require hours of googling and message board searching
My aforementioned mother hasn't had a single problem with her Ubuntu install while her Windows 8 install kept giving her problems
In short, it seems like you haven't used any kind of Linux in the last ten years and think slackware is still the only Linux anyone uses.

How does Microsoft make a profit with windows then?

You seem pretty autistic

Lots of netbooks are 12 inch though?

I just looked it up, it actually looks pretty neat. You still need internet for a lot of things though.

>How does Microsoft make a profit with Windows then?
Same way Adobe does, users are used to their software, so businesses buy licenses.
Also, in Microsoft's case, ads.

B-BUT IT IS USER FRIENDLY

Okay.

Cool argument. Ubuntu actually is user friendly, more user friendly than Windows 8 was with its Metro design.

>so does Windows
The main thing here is that vast majority of people already got that training at work or at school and are used to doing things in Windows for years if not decades.

If freetards weren't a bunch of squabling infighting retards and just made a decent Windows clone, they could've taken a sizable desktop share over a decade ago. Instead they try to be special snowflake with every single fucking distro and clone OSX or some other abomination DE that the market will never accept.

What's not user friendly about Ubuntu or Ubuntu mate?

And what are you expecting a netbook to do that Ubuntu can't do?

Ubuntu works perfectly fine. The main issue is that people are refusing to adapt to a new UI. My mother switched to Ubuntu from Windows 8 because she couldn't get used to the Metro UI and had the choice to either deal with Microsoft's shit design or switch to an interface that isn't quite like Windows but works for her.

>Cool argument
It's Sup Forums, not the Oxford Union Society. Settle down.

>Ubuntu actually is user friendly, more user friendly than Windows 8
No.

"____ is actually ____" isn't really an argument either, dude. it's just an assertion.

Ubuntu mate has a similar to windows ui. So does cinnamon.

People already know windows, but from scratch Ubuntu would be easier to learn.

>No.
>How to open a program in Windows 8:
Press the start button, or click on the bottom left corner of the screen becaues Microsoft decided to remove the start icon. Have you screen filled with garbage. Search for the program you want to open by scrolling horizontally. Click it. It opens.
>How to open a program in Ubuntu:
Click its icon in the dock.

some people just want it to work.

Simple thought experiment:

Imagine having to use Linux without any knowledge of the command line.

Now imagine the same with Windows.

You don't have to use the command line in Linux anymore.

>It's not pretty
Even if you don't like the defaults of you distro you can change almost everything and make it look in a way it suits you.

>It's not intuitive
It's pretty easy to use but of course for a lot of people it'll not feel intuitive because they was teach how to use windows from a young age and they've invested probably thousands of hours using it. This claim is pretty debatable, i have recommended it to a lot of people that doesn't know anything about computers and hardly any of them and they have managed to use it without difficulties.

>It's not widely used
True but consider unlike windows, linux is an opt-in and windows is an opt-out. This is the opposite in the mobile side and the results are very different (well, except there's much more tablets and phones being sold with windows phone than computer with linux).

>It requires hours to study to become a semi-competent user
You have already spent a lot of hours on windows, if you're not willing to learn anything else then of course you'll not like anything else.

>Your software choices are severely limited, and due to the lack of a profit motive, they're typically ugly and buggy.
This is debatable, applicatons on linux often integrates well with your user theme unlike on windows. Font rendering is much better IMO. The desktop environments can look as pretty as you want, regarding the programs theres thousands of ugly programs on windows too but that it's not windows' fault.

Regarding the limited choices while is true in certain extend is also true that you have access to tons of useful programs from the repos free of charge and without restrictions. On the other side regarding paid programs this is not enterely true, there's competing proprietary software for most programs on linux except for certain engineering areas.

Exactly the same.

GUI exists for a reason.

people who think linux is "easier" to use than windows/macos are living in a fantasy world.

i use linux, but your bias has crippled your ability to think rationally if you think your 45 year old mom can just pick up ubuntu the same way she could windows.

My fifty year old mom picked up Ubuntu easier than Windows 8.

As a Linux user, you're right. Too bad the typical response has the maturity around the level "hurr fuck off winders fud" and the logical reasoning of "but it works on my machine :·)".

ITT: Fanboys getting their feelings hurt

It's not easier, but it's just as easy.

Windows 8 was really annoying to learn for many people, but 7 and 10 are very easy to use. Unity and mature are also just as easy to use.

Unity and mate*

If this weren't the first thing linked I would have had to do it myself. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking up the bookmark user.

>You often run into problems that require hours of googling and message board searching
This is not different on windows, except being closed source is harder to find solutions because no one can audit the code, if you don't like something on windows no one has a chance to change it except MS. In fact on linux you get useful messagen but this is not always the case on windows because they cannot disclose a lot of things.

>In short, the average consumer just wants to get his simple tasks done without having to first achieve an unusually high level of technical competency first.
You're wrong in this point, you don't need expertise to use linux, most desktop environments are very similar to windows except wwith a lot of more options to customize them. I cannot prove you wrong but i don't buy your argument based on my own experience, i've seen a lot of people who barely knows about computers using linux fine. I theorize that the problem is for the so called "windows power users" because they're at a point where they depend heavily on windows.

>Just look at the friendly linux thread. You'll have your answer. It's not user friendly.
This would be true only if there wont exists entire sites dedicated to windows troubleshooting.

>I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's bad for the average user
I think you're wrong, it may have it shares of problems but the regular user almost never fix their own problems independently on the operative system, they take their computer to other people, like me for example.

>Of course, the typical response to this is "WELL THEY SHOULDNT BE DUMB", so I never expect to see linux marketshare to increase by any meaningful amount.
Please don't create strawmans, blaming the community of users for something unrelated makes me think you see this as a tribal war.

>keeps mentioning windows 8, a 4 year old OS with less than 10% market share
>thinks this has relevance to anything

>I don't like apples because they sometimes have worms in them
>lol at ur argument oranges have worms too, therefore apples are superior

The experience between Linux and Windows is roughly the same. There are a number of things that makes Linux distros much easier to use, namely a package manager and no annoying "you must restart for your updates to take effect" prompts.

Honestly, the only thing a normie misses on Linux is iTunes. 95% of people only use an office suite and a browser.

get a life dude

Ubuntu is total shit. The main issue is that freetards are refusing to create a UI people actually want to use.

Linux users try to explain their 1% marketshare by refusing to accept Linux has any flaws

there is literally nothing wrong with Ubuntu

>Too bad the typical response has the maturity around the level "hurr fuck off winders fud" and the logical reasoning of "but it works on my machine :·)".
Guide on how to be a winfag:
1.-harass people.
2.-be passive-agressive.
3.-get backlash.
4.-play to be the victim.

I'm a Linux user, nice try m8. That's the exact kind of behavior I mentioned in my post.
>any disagreement about how Linux is perfect in every single way is just windows FUD!!

how to be a lincuck

1. refuse to accept any flaws in your distribution of choice
2. accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of being a windows user
3. say things like "nice argument", and point out logical fallacies while making poor arguments yourself
4. live at home with mom

It has more to do with how operating systems are distributed. There is a tremendous amount of inertia amongst the population when it comes to technology. Want to know why www.msn.com is so popular? It's because that is the default homepage on internet explorer. People just don't know how to change their homepage or don't know how. Overall, the number of people willing to change their operating system, much less their homepage, is incredibly small.

Nice strawman. So tell me what is the point of the source being open if we think perfect code can be created in the first place? If the program is perfect from the start then the source being open don't have a lot of purpose, it wouldn't need to be audited and open to be improved by third perties. I hope you're just one of those guys who see this as a tribal war and not someone who unironically thinks like this.

>the average user can't even figure out how to change their homepage
>they'd be better off with linux

oh boy

There's no such thing as a program without flaws.

Most "normie" uses can be easily fulfilled on a Linux netbook, which was the point I was trying to make in the op.

>constant references to logical fallacies and "tribalism"

>implying anyone actually ~audits~ the code running on their machine
I'm willing to bet that less than 1% of the users that make up Linux's less than 1% marketshare actually read the source code of their OS.

>It's not pretty
>It's not intuitive
What is KDE?
>It requires hours to study to become a semi-competent user
No it doesn't. There are plenty of OOTB distros that don't require any knowledge at all.
>Your software choices are severely limited, and due to the lack of a profit motive, they're typically ugly and buggy
Easiest way to spot someone who has either never looked at Linux, or hasn't since 1980. But you seem like a child, so I assume that you just never tried it.
>You often run into problems that require hours of googling and message board searching
Right, because this never happens on Windows. That OS is problem-free, ri- Your PC ran into a problem and needs to restart :(

Ubuntu is fine winfag. It just works.

I always accept that there are flaws in software. I know that no software is perfect. What I do know is that freedom allows us to improve our own software to our own needs. What I don't accept is people who feel entitled to direct the direction of Linux without investing anything to make it happen. This is pure entitlement.

>mom's Windows machine keeps fucking up and she's worried about viruses
>only uses it for internet and word processing anyway
>set up Ubuntu with auto updates
>not a single complaint since
You'd be surprised, but Linux is actually great for tech retarded people since they can't figure out how to break it without going to the scary terminal.

Yeah those cheap lenovo and Dell netbooks that came with Ubuntu sold great and barely had anyone return them. Or what about the eeepc? That $150 Asus Linux netbook? That thing did well right?

How long ago did they sell those and how far has Ubuntu progressed since then?

>I'm a Linux user, nice try m8.
no m8, your try was the good one.
>That's the exact kind of behavior I mentioned in my post.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy
And this is exactly the kind of behavior i mentioned in my post too.

>>any disagreement about how Linux is perfect in every single way is just windows FUD!!
It's not about linux being perfect, if linux were perfect there won't be any point on being open source in the first place, the advantages of having more eyes and more collaborators wouldn't be necessary if what you claim in your strawman were true. Regarding to the microsoft FUD sorry man but manipulating opinions is something microsoft actually does, it almost seems that there's a campaign to blow of proportion any problem on linux and to do damage control on any thing MS does wrong.

>What is KDE?
Vista lookalike that's bloated as fuck and kept causing my machines to kernel panic
>Easiest way[...]
he actually made a good point, there is lots of software that just doesn't have a proper Linux alternative, such as the Adobe suite.
>Right, because this never happens on Windows
Sorry, but I've never had a machine bluescreen on my for no reason whatsoever, it was easier a driver install I fucked up or dying hardware. Linux software has broken on me before for no reason, for example my wifi card randomly supports 5GHz networks or doesn't, depending on what kernel I use.

Also this. I set up Ubuntu on my moms c2d laptop and she loves it a lot more than vista.

>Linux is actually great for tech retarded people since they can't figure out how to break it
>they can't figure out

The ol' security through obscurity ruse.

You're admitting they can't figure out how to do anything but open a web-browser. This isn't what "user friendly" means.

That's literally all they do though.

My 61 year old mom did. And now she doesn't bug me to fix her laptop anymore.

People on Sup Forums seem to think that regular folks use their computer for things other than the internet. They don't. Not really. Look at computer ownership before and after the internet matured. People don't want computers; they want internet access. If the computer does that, then it's good enough and is probably easy to use.

Because of how mature the internet is now, I could even put Chrome OS on my mother's computer (which is Linux, don't bother arguing that it's not), and it would be even simpler for her.

Windows is on a downhill trend and the sooner it dies, the better it is for everyone. This is coming from a guy who used Microsoft operating systems for over 25 years. I switched to Linux a few weeks ago now that my graphics drivers are near parity with Windows and I'm not looking back.

>1. refuse to accept any flaws in your distribution of choice
man, please read
You're making that up

>2. accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you of being a windows user
One thing is being a windows user and other different one is spread lies about competing operative systems, harassing user from software you don't like and the playing to be the victim. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

>3. say things like "nice argument", and point out logical fallacies while making poor arguments yourself
Explain me how my arguments are poor please.

>4. live at home with mom
the same person talking about bad arguments not uses name calling...

Not the person you replied to but. They still sell them, but are marketed towards enthusiasts now. You can in fact get any laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled from lenovo or Dell. And it's cheaper. Linux is more difficult to use. This is a fact and there's nothing wrong with that. It isn't a ton more difficult, but it's enough. What seems like a small gap in usability to you is a chasm to others. And that's what many Linux users fail to grasp. That said, I've dual booted arch for the better part of a decade now with no real issues. If I want to game oe use cases,i switch to Windows. Otherwise I use arch. The best user friendly OS right now is in fact Android for x86 machines. It truly does just work and has all the software Normie's care about. Look up RemixOS,it really is pretty good.

I've had bluescreens on my x240 with Windows 8.1 and no Windows update. It crashed the most when surfing the web with either Chrome of Firefox. It happens the most whenever I try to press the browse button to upload the file but I've seen it happen when writing a document in Libreoffice and when I was playing Microsoft Freecell.

If your best argument is disregard what i said with a meme then i guess nothing of value was lost.

it's user-friendly because it allows the user to do what they want to do easily.

how is windows easy to break?

>yfw windows doesn't have a package manager yet

If someone wants to download a program, they just search the software manager. With windows, normies have to find reputable websites to download .exe's from.

The only reason my 40+ year old mom hasn't picked up Ubuntu is because all of her business related software is proprietary, and licensed to her already, and making a switch would require her employees to re-learn another finance software.

My grandmother hasn't used computers very much, but I could probably teach her to use Ubuntu (or maybe a Chromebook, as she's not likely to need anything more)

>thinks this has relevance to anything
What do you expect? People also always bring up Unity's Amazon debacle, which was also 4 years ago.

Doesn't change the fact that Linux distros aren't really that much harder to use for an average user, than Windows.

>no Windows update
Gee I wonder why it could be buggy.

I literally use Linux, stop being so paranoid and stop using that paranoia to dismiss criticisms of an operating system.

Windows has has a package manager since sp3 on XP. At least get your facts straight man. It recently got a Linux style package manager in 10 though.

That's not security through obscurity. Security through obscurity works like hiding the open entrance to your house with a bush that people don't bother to look through because they assume there's nothing behind the bush. There is no security through obscurity with a standard Linux install.

I get what you're saying, and I just can not agree.

I have windows and linux computers, my mother switched to ubuntu mate, and if a 65 year old tech illiterate stubborn as fuck persian mom could do it, then its obviously not more difficult to use.

>If you don't know how to break it, it's safe and secure.
No.

You're trying to imply that Windows is less buggy than Linux. It is neither less buggy nor more buggy.

>I literally use Linux, stop being so paranoid and stop using that paranoia to dismiss criticisms of an operating system.
I don't care what you use, again, this is not a tribal war. Address what i said the same way i addressed what you said without playing to be the victim anymore.

This. It's all the same in the end for normies.

if you weren't retarded you'd realize that i was referring to the small amount of malware written for linux due to the fact that hardly anyone uses linux

Typical installs of Linux are secure by the virtue that they are designed with reasonable security parameters by default. This is not the same as setting up a system and assuming that it's secure. This is also true for Windows, typical Windows installs are indeed secure.

I'm implying that your shit is broken because you refuse to install the fixes Microsoft has published.

As someone who did their thesis on statistical ergonomics I'm just pointing out the facts. It is more difficult to use for a variety of reasons. Most of this is caused by how customizable Linux is. While it is very easy to use with the right setup windows is still easier. Your single use case does not trump the millions of samples. There's specific edge cases where yes it is better in usability. But windows offers comparable versatility, it's easier and has wider support. Things that Linux isn't likely to ever have. The most popular Unix variants are OSx and Android for these three reasons. And those three things will nearly always mean more than anything else. Arguing against that is a fools errand.

While Linux being a small target is one of the reasons Malware isn't written for it, there's also the fact that 99% of software is installed through the package manager, which is considered reputable and safe.
Malware is so easy to spread on Windows, because the ecosystem encourages users to download software from suspicious third party sites.

It's not because that hardly anyone uses linux. Look at OSX. Tons of people use it, but there's not a lot of malware on it. The reason is due to how privileges are handled in linux and OSX over windows. Malware would need root access to do any real damage to a linux or OSX computer.

I'm sorry, I consider the Windows 10 patch to be malware. If I update, I am guaranteed to get Windows 10 because I have no time to hunt the list of hundreds of updates for the ones that trigger Windows 10.

My good man, what a splendid display of rational thought. I am at awe of your grasp of logic. These sophists know nothing of the art of argumentation! Please continue to point out their logical shortcomings and fallacious arguments. You do the world, and indeed this board, a service. Good day, sir!

>You're admitting they can't figure out how to do anything but open a web-browser.

No, he's saying that the majority of users only use the web browser. The next most common thing they use is office software. These two things come with giant-ass icons in Unity. Windows doesn't do that, so I'd argue that Ubuntu is actually easier to use than Windows for the majority of people.

What you've done is conflated system administration with ease of use. The two are actually opposites. An ideal OS wouldn't require the user to know anything at all about the technical aspects of said OS.

The default user account on Windows has root access. Users can be tricked into altering their OS without realizing it, because there is not always a prompt for privilege elevation.

enjoy your vulnerabilities and bluescreens lol

The default user account had root access. In Windows XP. This hasn't been the case since then. And again, windows has had a package manager since sp3. If people dont use it that's their decision but installing random software is hardly encouraged. In fact it warns you when you attempt to launch exe not downloaded from the package manager.

>linux is hard to use because it is customizable
>windows is easier to use because "it's easier and has wider support"

You're drunk, go home.

>Malware would need root access to do any real damage
This isn't actually true. Malware doesn't need to break your computer. It just needs to make YOUR life difficult, and advertise to YOU, the user. Which only requires user-level privileges.

You claim a lot of things and i'll not say linux is perfect in any way, but it's reasonabily easy to use even if you don't believe in his use case, it can substitute windows easily for most people. Still, you claim a lot of things but please provide some examples on what you're saying and according to you how exactly can be improved. Also:
>Things that Linux isn't likely to ever have
Even if you prove to be right this is just a prediction, the more people collaborates there's a higher chance of getting more designer for the project. One example is plasma 5 and gnome 3 which have a team of designers collaborating. So please, while i don't completely disagree with you don't try to predict that the situation will not improve because i don't buy it.

I'm typing on a phone at work. Our wifi operates on a whitelist and hotspots aren't allowed. So I apologize if my grammar is off but argue with my points and stop shitposting please. I mainly use Linux at home and at work. But you guys are just posting completely incorrect things about windows. Mainly that it doesn't have a package manager, or secured permissions. Things that haven't been true for over a decade now.

The default user account still has root access, you just have to enter your password before using this access, just like sudo on Linux. Also literally nobody uses the package manager in Windows or even knows it exists.

Nobody here is playing the victim or calling a "tribal war" except for the person calling anyone who disagrees a "winfag".

Fucking hate how linux fags try to force their very obviously professional only computer system onto normies.
Very clearly people don't want to spend the time screwing with pointless options on their PC's so unless their running a server there's no way a normie could care.

>...
Again, you'll keep attacking me or you actually have something to say? i don't care how you call me, you're wasting your time.