Holy fuck why does this piece of shit init system even fucking exist? It's preventing my computer from booting at all...

Holy fuck why does this piece of shit init system even fucking exist? It's preventing my computer from booting at all, you cant switch it out on Debian and Devuan is obscure and you are just screwing yourself over because of much less development. SysVinit is much better than this, insecure, bloated poetteringware trash

Other urls found in this thread:

roqet.org/freebsd_minimalist_laptop.html
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation
lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/
gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html
systemd-free.org/
phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMzg
soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/12/21/1343258
lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00010.html
bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=918226
bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394
lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/XW7V5A3RAWYCACU2ZMPA27ARRLIZUI37/)
bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=776171
bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64116
bsdmag.org/randy_w_3/
ewontfix.com/14/
debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.html
reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc
reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/
gnu.org/software/software.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Maybe you shouldn't have fucked with shit?

If it triggers you so fucking much like the boo hoo baby you are then slipstream sysv in a debian installer and quit your bitching.

>complaining about a piece of software on a hobbyist OS
Just install something else. That's the point of Linux, isn't it?

system admin here:

you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, and you don't work in any industry that would require you to

tl;dr

shut the fuck up faggot

Go FreeBSD and don't look back. It's a dream.

roqet.org/freebsd_minimalist_laptop.html

Perhaps you should buy a Mac?

Wow... Nice hate brigade over there, shitlord. I bet you hate little children and disabled people too!

system admin here again,

hating the handicapped it justified, but shitting on systemd for no reason is unjustified

tl;dr

fuck you

samefag

>SysVinit is much better than this
That is what I say, but people won't listen.

What seems to be the problem OP?

summerfriend

i like systemd. compiled gentoo with systemd

>you cant switch it out on Debian
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation

i was going to call you a faggot, op, but then i realized that the page on the debian wiki about replacing systemd seems to be gone.

also, during my search, i stumbled upon this: lkcl.net/reports/removing_systemd_from_debian/

systemctl status emby-server

This shit is easy and works.

Install gentoo

>it is preventing my computer from booting
I have seen it delay boot 90s if there is something wrong, but you managed to fuck it up completely?
Surely this feat is not unique to systemd.
>you can't switch it out
you can though. You even mention that devuan exist. Clearly it is possible, but since you can't figure out how to configure an init system, it might be possible you can't switch it out.
>SysVinit is better than this
Then use that. I don't care.
>insecure
All software projects have problems, but is there something you know that the rest of us don't regarding to this?
>bloated
Fair enough. Systemd provides a lot of tools that does things differently. But the end result is a faster system that is easier to maintain.
>poetteringware trash
so because you failed CS, you just want to hate on Poetterring? You must be a delight to be around.

The issue I have with systemd is that it got adopted WAY too quickly. It is still in active development, and new versions might drastically change parts of its behavior. Hence I consider it an unstable beta product at best. The fact that Lennart doesn't take bugs seriously makes it even worse. I wouldn't mind systemd if Lennart was put on the sidelines and more capable engineers would work on it.
TLDR Systemd is a good idea but currently has a shit implementation, Lennart is a faggot.

The problem with systemd is how it creates dependency hell. Depending on the distro, there might be no other choice than to use systemd or risk having the entire system break.

>It's preventing my computer from booting at all
It really isn't. You just fucked up. If you fuck up this hard on systemd, you will fuck up this hard on other init systems as well.

t. systemd convert

same, all my gentoo boxes run systemd. shit is cash

same

What kind of development do you think Devuan does? Devuan is a fork of Debian. The hard work done by Debian will translate into work that Devuan can use.

The fact that you were fucking terrible at init scripts and systemd "solved" this for you (what's your fucking job anyway) doesn't make systemd less of a train wreck. Also, $10 have been transferred to your account. NSA thanks you!

What's this, 2013? This meme is over. Your contrarian vocal time has passed, nobody gives a shit about your wannabe "I'm smarter than devs" psuedo attitude.

Fuck off to something more obscure and go join its IRC and jack off.

penny to a pound you wouldn't know how to even check if a distro even has systemd without your dumb ass googling it. There's been countless huge changes to linux over the years like grub2 from grub, pulseaudio, major distros shipping gnome3, and all of these had hateful months and nothing stuck around like the systemd hate, but again it's just the same angry dropouts complaining JUST BECAUSE IT'S DIFFERENT and they don't even know WHAT IT IS.

You are basically turning into a grandma and complaining that windows 7 sucks coming from XP just because it looks slightly different even though you don't know dick about either.

>the internet is run on hobbyist software
wincucks believe this

systemd exists in order to convert the Linux ecosystem into Windows, so Windowsfags can have the last laugh at Linuxfags.
What i mean by this is that when something better than systemd comes out in the future, an inevitability as it always is in the world of software where there always comes a time where you have to completely rewrite some shit,
Linuxfags will be stuck with the trash that systemd will become at that time, and they won't be able to do anything about it.
Systemd is literally a cancer.

The world prefers to use windows server over a Linux server line Debian.
This is what winkids actually believe.

>Linuxfags will be stuck with the trash that systemd will become at that time, and they won't be able to do anything about it.
False. I don't think you understand the power of free software.

Isn't the entire point of free software that systemd will be replaced or forked if it ever became an issue.

If it were easy to remove it, then yes.
But systemd has too much shit dependent on it. It would take 100 times the work and effort to remove it if it wasn't so integrated into most distros.

That's exactly the point of free software. The people here who fear systemd also do not believe in free software.

Free software says nothing about easy or hard work. In many cases, it is actually very difficult and expensive to migrate to free software.

Find me a list of core programs that DONT depend on systemd

the point is it can be removed and changed independently from the people who develop it
complaining people are adopting something that works well an that it's killing diversity is like complaining about mass production

>Find me a list of core programs that DONT depend on systemd
come on dude

I dont think you quite understand the severity of the problem.

Free software takes time and time is money.
Even teenagers get tired of gayming if they do too much of it,
and in the same sense the accomplished hobbyist working on Linux will say "fuck this" with regards to systemd because it ain't worth the time they would otherwise spend doing their job to make money to put food on a platter and pay the bills.
There's no such thing as "free" in this world. Only a case of what exactly you are sacrificing.

Whats that? You can't find a list?

>independently
So when CORE services DEPEND on systemd and there is no other alternative?
Systemd has taken over the system, it is beyond a point of just forking it.

A hobbyist working on Linux shouldn't ever have to touch systemd if he doesn't care about learning about it.

I don't. I only understand software in terms of free software and non-free software.

The GNU OS does not depend on systemd.

Then you have no basis to discuss anything

HURD just got SOUND support this year!!!!
It dosent use shit, because it isnt able to use anything. It is a failed project, stallman admits this

My basis is based on the freedom of free software. Free software inherently means you can do anything. There is nothing that systemd can do that will ever change this fact.

>Whats that? You can't find a list?
sigh, literally almost everything doesnt have a hard requirement for systemd. a few all-in-one desktop environments, but i wouldnt call those core.

you're making yourself look dumb and uninformed

Hurd is one part of the GNU OS. I think you're forgetting the GNU part of a normal GNU/Linux OS.

BSD ricing is gonna be the next big thing soon

Linux is a fucking bloated mess at the moment

You have no basis to be in this thread, discussing a program, that you only know is free or not free.
There is nothing of importance you have to say.

Pic releated,just have installed that are forced deps.Fuck ton more

The entire point of free software that systemd will be replaced or forked if it ever became an issue. Hard or easy is not an issue and will never be an issue because everybody has the freedom to change it if they wish.

I dont use the gnu user land.I use linux+uClibc.
Please refrain from assuming i am using the shitty gnu userland, you're no worse.
HURD is the KERNEL for the SHIT OS stallman attempted to make the past 25 YEARS.

It will not be replaced.
if programs FUCKING DEPEND ON SYSTEMD TO FUCKING OPERATE, you cannot emulate this, it is a HARD dep.
There is no forking.

> Pic releated,just have installed that are forced deps.Fuck ton more

oh well lol of course, systemd is assumed core to archlinux, the distro is built around it

its linux, linux is based around choice, there are plenty of choices of distros not using systemd if you dont want to use it.
alternatively, there are guides for swapping to boring init systems for those that do use it

use gentoo with USE=-systemd

the fact is that a modern linux desktop environment requires systemd to handle hotswapping wireless networks, sleeping and suspending, triggering events over dbus, etc. linux is in a better place for having it. deal with it.

there's always i3 and wmutils and so on if you want to turn your nose away from modern progress

That's wrong. Hurd is not a kernel program for the GNU OS. Hurd was actually designed to be not a kernel. GNU's kernel is actually not Hurd.

>if programs FUCKING DEPEND ON SYSTEMD TO FUCKING OPERATE, you cannot emulate this, it is a HARD dep.
Free software means that you can modify your programs to stop depending on systemd to operate. This is the freedom of free software.

{code]
GNU Hurd (usually referred to as the Hurd or just Hurd) is the multiserver microkernel written as part of GNU. It has been under development since 1990 by the GNU Project of the Free Software Foundation, designed as a replacement for the Unix kernel,[2] and released as free software under the GNU General Public License.
[/code]

>if programs FUCKING DEPEND ON SYSTEMD TO FUCKING OPERATE, you cannot emulate this, it is a HARD dep.

sigh.

im using systemd because i want it. despite 300+ packages installed, attached are my deps.

if i decide i dont want systemd, i disable it and reinstall the packages, none of which have a HARD dependency on systemd.

l2linux

That description is incorrect. Hurd is not a microkernel. Everything else about that Hurd description is fine. GNU Hurd is a system protocol and is also the implementation of the protocol. But it is not a microkernel.

jesus fuck you're fucking retarded

stallman calls it a fucking kernel
Go fuck your self stallmanist
gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html

pacman -Rsc

Stallman doesn't call Hurd the GNU kernel or any kernel. Stallman calls Hurd the Unix kernel replacement. This is because GNU's kernel isn't actually GNU Hurd but a microkernel.

You can switch it out simply by using the devuan repos on debian.
It's also trivial to switch out on manjaro. It can be done on plain arch by the wiki has been modified to hide the information and to discourage people from doing it.
Otherwise, just install gentoo.

This

Come back when it actually works with wifi hardware lmao. Cuck.

Guess you're not using any RHEL compliance distro then.
Good luck with your deployment

systemd is the archlinux way. archlinux isn't really about choice, just their way of doing linux.

if you insist on using archlinux without systemd, there are guides e.g. systemd-free.org/
i'm sure you can google

but really, if you care enough about choices in how your machine is setup, use gentoo.

yes, as a sysadmin I love when upstream breaks my shit that worked for ages and forced me to deal with new crap

also, lennart's cock is yummy

Gentoo limits what hardware can be used easily.
Due to their "views"

..? what? elaborate

t. shill more like

phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMzg
soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/12/21/1343258
lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00010.html
bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=918226

This one is my favorite:
bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825394 (lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]/message/XW7V5A3RAWYCACU2ZMPA27ARRLIZUI37/)

bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=776171
bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64116 (journal corruption is not a bug, it's a feature (tm) - literally)

bsdmag.org/randy_w_3/
ewontfix.com/14/
debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.html

archlinux on systemd:

reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc

reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4m0r93/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/

Install void linux and be set free via runit. It lets you have a good init without having to use gentoo.

Too bad gentoo is superior in every way.

The actual reason is that an arch dev (tomegun) works for Red Hat and works on systemd.
And he was the one who constantly kept pushing it.

The "harder to maintain" stuff applies more to Debian. Arch adopted systemd very early, where that wasn't such a big issue.

>And he was the one who constantly kept pushing it.

there's nothing wrong with his reasoning:
reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc

copy and paste which part of his reply there you feel he is wrong with

>every distro, especially those that once pretended they were about choice or simplicity, now hide instructions to get rid of systemd when such instructions were once in their wiki
>good goy there's no conspiracy, systemd is just good and that's why people are using it!

Should I just copy-paste everything?

No, he isn't exactly wrong. Of course an actual daemon manager has advantages instead of Arch's old shitty bash scripts. But he completely ignores any other long-existing stable solutions, he also looks at only one use-case where you have some cancerous full desktop system with dozens of interdependent services.

I tried but Sup Forums complains that there's too many characters

>full desktop system with dozens of interdependent services.

so the 99% use case

for us snowflakes perfectly reasonable alternatives exist: gentoo, bsds, osx, etc etc etc

If all I want is some normie desktop I just use Mint or even Windows or some shit.

>I think you're forgetting the GNU part of a normal GNU/Linux OS.

55 dubs_get

>gtk
>GNU

wat

Riddle me this: Do you dislike the linux kernel too?

[citation needed]

right, but since we're here and special, we need to use the alternatives, or bend whats available to make it work the way we want.

hence neckbeard distros like gentoo, funtoo, bsd, sabayon, calculate, etc.

Does it work with recent hardware?

gnu.org/software/software.html

if the hardware is 1yr+ old and enterprizey/not consumer trash

Is Alpine Linux any good?

hobby distro but it's ok as a shitposting OS

Holy this this is comedy cold:
>The second problem with systemd that he describes involves the journalctl utility. It displays log messages with long lines in a way that requires sideways scrolling, as well as displaying all messages since the beginning of time, in forward chronological order. Both of these behaviors contribute to making the tool much less usable, especially in critical situations where time and efficiency are of the essence.
PEBCAK to the finest

Stopped reading there, do you have any more interesting links to present to me?

>reddit
not clicking

What's wrong with using gentoo? Although, I'm not sure if Gentoo's Runit support is that great.

systemd is really, REALLY intrusive.
why was it accepted in the first place? because muh boot times. that on itself says a lot about about its supporters.

>because muh boot times.
strawman

I switched to it because systemctl/journalctl/loginctl are much nicer front-ends than the OpenRC/syslog interface I had before it

Everyone just fuckin' loves BINARY LOGS!

>you can't switch it out on Debian
wrong
$ sudo apt-get purge systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
dns-root-data dnsmasq-base gnome-accessibility-themes gnome-icon-theme-symbolic gnome-themes-standard gnome-themes-standard-data iputils-arping libavdevice-ffmpeg56
libavfilter-ffmpeg5 libgif4 libilmbase6v5 libjson-c2:i386 liblightdm-gobject-1-0 libndp0 libnetfilter-conntrack3 libnma-common libnma0 libopenexr6v5 libpgm-5.1-0
libpostproc-ffmpeg53 libteamdctl0 libx265-68 libxklavier16 libzmq3 lightdm-gtk-greeter mobile-broadband-provider-info tzdata-java
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
consolekit libck-connector0 libnma-common libnma0 libpam-ck-connector sysvinit-core
The following packages will be REMOVED:
colord* gvfs* gvfs-daemons* hplip* iio-sensor-proxy* libpam-systemd* lightdm* network-manager* network-manager-gnome* policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome*
printer-driver-postscript-hp* systemd* systemd-sysv* udisks2*
The following NEW packages will be installed:
consolekit libck-connector0 libpam-ck-connector sysvinit-core
The following packages will be upgraded:
libnma-common libnma0
2 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 15 to remove and 513 not upgraded.
Need to get 565 kB of archives.
After this operation, 46.6 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]


I'm on testing

>The following packages will be REMOVED:
> colord* gvfs* gvfs-daemons* hplip* iio-sensor-proxy* libpam-systemd* lightdm* network-manager* network-manager-gnome* policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome*
did you not notice something weird?

>>why did most people accept it
>I did because...
err, we aren't talking about you and only you.

I don't really mind them, since to me as a user, there's no real difference.

Daily reminder that systemd is FOSS (Free Open Source Software) and that it is good software that fulfils the needs of modern devops, sysadmins, regular users and even application developers. Since work on systemd project restarted in 2010 and it's initial inclusion in Fedora Jan 2011 it has gained code contributions from over 600 developers worldwide and became the default init system and session manager in every major GNU/Linux distribution since 2012. Developers from each of these have commit access and have helped to design and shape systemd to fit their needs and unify core system between distributions over the last 5 years.

However as great of an improvement as it has proven to be it has attracted many paid trolls and mentally ill Linux users who spread lies and FUD about it, a large group of these single out developers and attack them with constant trolling, abuse, stalking and even death threats. Many of these 'people' are from the *BSD camps; after Linux usage and contributions sky-rocketed 15 years ago they have been on a constant mission to cause trouble, including making threats of violence and rape against people who create GPL licensed code.

There are also thought to be many of these people on the payroll of Microsoft to try and destroy strong powerful FOSS projects by negative campaigning and lie/FUD spreading. Fortunately as usual for Microsoft their FUD campaign and paid shills turn up 4 years too late and don't have technical arguments, making it obvious what they are: paid trolls.

>did you not notice something weird?

gnome related stuff and other systemd dependent packages would get removed. What else do you expect?