2016

>2016
>still using qwerty

What's your excuse?

Other urls found in this thread:

waavsolutions.com/pages/fr/divers.php
seanwrona.com/typing.php
forum.colemak.com/topic/446-at-120-wpm-on-qwerty-is-it-worth-the-switch-to-colemak/
sacrideo.us/experience-report-with-the-workman-keyboard-layout/
youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g#t=6m20s
youtube.com/watch?v=jRFKZGWrmrM
workmanlayout.com/blog/
kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/
forum.colemak.com/topic/446-at-120-wpm-on-qwerty-is-it-worth-the-switch-to-colemak/)
forum.colemak.com/topic/267-my-results-after-30-days-104-wpm/
hi-games.net/typing-test/watch?u=1
ddrkirby.com/other/colemak.html
youtube.com/watch?v=L_v_eXrkT_4
youtube.com/watch?v=fwdhYLeJc_I
youtube.com/watch?v=B34JI-2fBZk
youtube.com/watch?v=rJ7s6gSRgg8
youtube.com/watch?v=3VUWZHihq_M
ryanheise.com/colemak/
nayuki.io/page/i-type-in-dvorak
blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/jaredpar/2009/01/12/dvorak-keyboard-is-it-really-faster/
workmanlayout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=17
mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization
mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak
data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=shrimpneck
seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=shrimpneck
hi-games.net/typing-test,30/watch?u=96
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Qwerty works. Colemark and Dvorak is shit.

Azerty.

Which keyboard layout is best for programming?

AZERTY with WaavSolutions key mapping to have access to things like œ/æ/É/À among other things. "Welcome" to Windows I suppose.
>waavsolutions.com/pages/fr/divers.php

>Choosing some obscure keyboard layout that disables you to type on any other keyboard.
>After months of exercising eventually get 5 words/minute more in online typing speed tests, which have no relevance to anything at all.
Yeah, you totally made a smart decision m8

Just the one you can type on, for fuck's sake. It's not like your typing speed limits your programming output, it's usually your thinking.

No dude what matters is the chair, you need to buy one of those $1000 programming chairs.

>using other people's comouters

>I've never used an alternative layout

>2016
>not using ANIHORTES layout on phone

Qwerty works and is comfortable.

Colemak, workman etc. are bullshit. Dvorak is okay but I don't really see a point in crippling my ability to both user computers and type fast for the sake of some perceived unproven “advantage”.

QWERTY, honestly. Most tools are qwerty-centric in their (default) keybindings, most programming languages limit themselves to special keys etc. found on a qwerty keyboard.

This is especially important if you're a vim user.

I see you've never tried programming on a QWERTZ keyboard before. It's pain and suffering.

>2016
>still not installing gentoo
What's your excuse?

>talking about mobile touchscreen layouts in a desktop layout thread

but yeah, messagease is pretty nice

Dvorak, Colemak and the other keyboards reduce finger strain, for reasons that should be obvious.

If you want speed, use Plover.

QWERTY is standard and there's no reason to switch to some obscure layout for a 1% boost in speed or comfort.

>Dvorak, Colemak and the other keyboards reduce finger strain, for reasons that should be obvious.
Should they? Has there been any credible, non-bullshit research on the topic?

I'll tell you the answer: No. Dvorak was always self-proclaiming his layout on the grounds of contested evidence.

There is no justification whatsoever being dvorak's (IMO nonsensical) belief that leaving the home row is what causes finger strain. If anything, workman is the layout that has the most amount of sensible thought behind it, because it actually recognizes that e.g. twisting your hand and moving your fingers laterally (which dvorak *emphasizes*!) is much more straining and harmful than simply curling or extending a finger.

Finally, all of these layouts really break down at speed - and I mean utterly. Show me a colemak or workman user who types above 100 wpm. When you're typing at speed, their “ergonomic” design does nothing but get in your way because the hand placements are unnatural.

QWERTY is optimized (for reasons we all know) towards average distance between keypresses, especially across the left/right barrier. This makes it very easy to type at speed, since you have a high degree of parallelism in your movements.

Look up some articles, other fast typists have pretty much confirmed the same and/or use QWERTY themselves for comfort reasons. DVORAK is the *only* alt-layout that actually doesn't get in your way much at high speeds (mostly because dvorak had the foresight to also optimize for left/right), but I still see no reason to cripple my typing for the sake of pseudoscience

How the fuck does that work?

Ps. I don't use the home row / 10 finger system either way. It's what causes RSI at high speeds, trust me. Forcing yourself to move the same finger multiple times is much more harmful than simply chording them with your hand, which requires a degree of freedom with your hand movements that the 10-finger system doesn't allow.

Look at the page of Sean Wrona (arguably the world's fastest modern-day typist alive) if you're interested, he goes into great length on this topic: seanwrona.com/typing.php

I quote:
>I am also frequently asked for tips on typing faster. I believe my biggest advantage in typing is that I do not necessarily use the same finger to type the same key. I use whichever finger is most comfortable, which can vary based on the context of the letters in the word. I cannot completely explain what I'm doing since I have been doing it since my childhood and it comes naturally, but I do tend to use whichever finger is closest based on the positioning of my hands typing the other letters in the word.

The keyboard is called messagease.

Tap on the big letters and swipe from a big letter to a small letter for those. Holding a key will give a number or you can press the 123 key for numbers.

It is also possible to add/change symbols and copying/pasting is really nice, just swipe up/down from the 123 key. And swiping left and right to change the cursor position is so much easier then trying to put it somewhere by tapping. Macros are also a nice extra.

try googling "colemak wpm"

I did that a while ago and all I found was articles about people either claiming they were just about managing 100 wpm, or otherwise recommending that people who type significantly faster than that don't switch

e.g. forum.colemak.com/topic/446-at-120-wpm-on-qwerty-is-it-worth-the-switch-to-colemak/
or articles like sacrideo.us/experience-report-with-the-workman-keyboard-layout/

>Typing Speed. In the case of speed the situation is not nearly so positive as for comfort. The Workman layout is undoubtedly a comfortable layout, but like the Colemak layout, I have trouble pushing this layout past 100 WPM.

I thought about learning something else, then I realized that whenever I use anybody else's computer I'll fuck up so I stopped.

Because I don't have fucking autism. QWERTY is fine, I type at 90-100 WPM with 2-3% error rate.

All the other meme keyboard layouts just cause incompatibility problems and slow your typing speed down to 10 WPM unless you waste 16 hours a day practicing for 10+ years.

So, to the left of the keyboard there's a waste of space and it is actually slower than a keyboard you just have to press characters on.

>What's your excuse?

I started learning colemak a few years ago (after a prior attempt at learning dvorak a few years before that) and got pretty far but I put it on hold as it was summer and I had a lot of people wanting to talk and play games and 30~wpm wasn't cutting it, so switching back and forth between qwerty was a bit awkward

nowadays I want to learn hotkeys for vim and other hotkey heavy programs, so having to learn a layout on top might be a bit awkward, but I plan on doing it eventually

>Which keyboard layout is best for programming?

if you're not speaking exclusively english I'd advise against learning colemak/dvorak in the first place, there may be variants for whatever language you speak but whether they're any good I can't say and their userbase will be extremely minimal

as far as colemak/dvorak for programming, colemak is a *lot* more modern and barely moves any keys you'll care about (except if you type in a language that uses ; to terminate lines) but there are programming dvorak layouts too, I'd recommend colemak over dvorak in general but especially so for programming

>>Choosing some obscure keyboard layout that disables you to type on any other keyboard.

slow typists (60-80wpm max) who switched layouts typically reported at most 20-30wpm drop in speed after switching back to qwerty after a few weeks of not using it (typing at 60-80+wpm in their new layout also), however switching between layouts is instant and if you already type 90-100wpm in qwerty the drop in speed won't be a problem as you'll still be typing faster than the majority of people

>>After months of exercising eventually get 5 words/minute more in online typing speed tests

now you're just talking out your arse, 5wpm is typical after the hour it takes to completely memorise the layout, 10-15wpm the first week, 15-30wpm the first few weeks to a month, 30-50wpm the first 2-3 months if you're already a competent typist

and all of this is stupid since it's a waste of time.

keyboard layout hipsters is now a thing I guess, I wish they'd fuck off.

Most people that are more comfortable with Dvorak or Colemak than with QWERTY probably type in a weird way in QWERTY because it was the first layout that they learned, so they didn't learn to use it "properly".
I type at around the same speed in both Colemak and QWERTY (80-90wpm) but I prefer Colemak because my hands are more static and I don't do any hand acrobatics bullshit with it. I still have to use QWERTY for some games without key binding options, but it's not too much of a problem since alt+shift (or ctrl+shift if you have both layouts in the same language) fixes everything.

I started learning Colemak a few years ago when my hands and wrists started hurting and I got scared since carpal tunnel syndrome runs in the family. Slowing down probably helped more than anything else, but I haven't had hand/wrist pain again.

test

This is basically exactly my experience.

Switched to Colemak after gettings pains typing in Qwerty. I type at the same speed I did before now but typing is much more comfortable in Colemak.

>now i can shitpost on Sup Forums 11.4% quicker

>What's your excuse?
My excuse is that I only like normie shit like the rest of Sup Forums. If it's foreign to me or uncommon I will shit all over it no matter what.

>arguing over layouts when you're still typing on a staggered key typewriter emulator
>arguing over maintaining ~90WPM when you could be shitposting at 180+ WPM

Why haven't you switched to steno?

>Most tools are qwerty-centric in their (default) keybindings
>This is especially important if you're a vim user.

ideally you'd learn the keybindings first but yeah, rebinding all the keys to the equivalent place on a new layout is a nightmare

someone I know who switched to dvorak wrote a script that allowed him to swap between layouts on the fly for the programs he hasn't changed the hotkeys for which seems like an ideal compromise

>Qwerty works and is comfortable.
>Colemak, workman etc. are bullshit. Dvorak is okay
>crippling my ability to both user computers and type fast

spoken like someone who hasn't looked into any of those layouts (if you don't buy into some of the "advantages" people claim about colemak/workman/dvorak I don't blame you, I don't either, but there are objective advantages over qwerty in areas)

>Should they? Has there been any credible, non-bullshit research on the topic?

doubtful, but the research paper that looked into alternative layouts and found qwerty was better was pretty disingenuous in its conclusions

>Finally, all of these layouts really break down at speed - and I mean utterly.

citation needed, the fastest verified english language typist used simplified dvorak, she maintained at least 150wpm for 50 minutes with 170wpm in shorter bursts with a maximum of 212wpm

>Show me a colemak or workman user who types above 100 wpm.

many people who switch layouts don't even type 100wpm on qwerty - 60-80wpm is the average speed of professional typists with 80-100 being exceedingly fast - while it can take the better part 6-12 months to get back to the typing speed you could get on qwerty it's absolutely possible by every account of any competent typist who has done the switch and maintained it for longer than a year

while I don't buy that alternative layouts (esp colemak and dvorak as so often claimed) will improve typing speed significantly over qwerty it's an absolute embarrassment to claim that they do the opposite despite the anecdotes and experiences of literally anyone who has made the swap permanently

>get in your way because the hand placements are unnatural.

unnatural hand placement, such as all on the home row with less awkward swapping like on qwerty? please

that was long ago, some people can get over 170wpm, though they aren't in any book

It is a bit slower but now I can type comfortably with just my right thumb, with a qwerty keyboard reaching the left side is hard when using one hand while still holding the phone comfortably.

Because steno is specifically designed to chord together keys to compose complete words in one stroke, but I do more than just type in written language with my keyboard

I don't have autism.

That keyboard sucks, enjoy your Escape key getting out and never coming back in again.

I've been using QWERTZ my entire life.
Bet you didn't see that one coming. Check and mate, fagtronic OP.

god dammit wrong image.

continued

>QWERTY is optimized [...] especially across the left/right barrier. [...] since you have a high degree of parallelism in your movements.

are you joking? qwerty scores the worse out of the 3 major layouts for hand alteration and has a lot of common words that string together on one hand, you know, like are and alteration

this is literally one of the primary design considerations of colemak and the primary reason why I know you're full of shit when you talk about colemak being bad and "ergonomic", colemak scores better for hand/finger alteration than even dvorak, it's fairly uncommon that you'll end up using the same finger for consecutive letters never mind the same bloody hand

I went through the effort of finding a heatmap of the 3 common layouts to demonstrate this point, want to talk about unergonomic? how about having one of the most common letters and vowels on the weakest finger on the hand most people aren't dominant with

>Look up some articles, other fast typists have pretty much confirmed the same and/or use QWERTY themselves for comfort reasons.

fast typists use qwerty because they were taught to use qwerty, there's very little gain in switching layouts if you already type at 100+wpm which is far above the usable typing speed for most applications unless you're sperging off in real time chat or frequently copy text

>DVORAK is the *only* alt-layout that actually doesn't get in your way much at high speeds (mostly because dvorak had the foresight to also optimize for left/right)

again, I guess that colemak being better than dvorak for hand/finger alteration means it's a worse layout :^)

>Having to press shift + digit to type digits.
Non merci

This americans, writing eat all day in any layout.

That's a poor excuse and you know it.

youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv-Qb-dB6g#t=6m20s
youtube.com/watch?v=jRFKZGWrmrM

the biggest problem is pressing shift for full stop

>actually thinking theres empirical proof that those two shits actually make typing faster than qwerty

>learn to type perfectly fine with qwerty
>learn cyrillic

>now some autist expects me to learn some other meme layout

Get real nigger, the only reason Dvorak ever created his layout was because he had aspergers. Normal people dont waste time with that kind of shit.

If Dvorak was actually objectively better than qwerty, don't you think more people would naturally be using it? More institutions would be promoting it?

Get the fuck outta here.

>guys look at me coding with a steno machine!
>proceeds to write normal english

>Most people that are more comfortable with Dvorak or Colemak than with QWERTY probably type in a weird way in QWERTY because it was the first layout that they learned, so they didn't learn to use it "properly".

I learned to hunt and peck with qwerty and still type with 3~ fingers, when I get to 90-100wpm (about my fastest typing speed on a good day) I have so much hand movement it's not even funny

no rsi though, proper posture is important kiddos

>that was long ago, some people can get over 170wpm, though they aren't in any book

it wasn't that long ago (2005), however her record is important because she could maintain 150wpm with peaks up to 170wpm, but had bursts of up to 212wpm

I know average typing speed is increasing but the point here is that a typist using dvorak can be as fast as the fastest in qwerty, and those based on or use similar ideas to the design of dvorak (such as colemak) aren't going to decrease speed like the person I was replying to claimed

(fwiw, dvorak is an old layout at this point, colemak is a lot more modern and it shows for anyone that's tried to learn either layout)

I don't feel like learning a meme layout.

if youre a basement dweller then go for whatever.But if you work with actual real people you will become handicapped on others people keyboards. Whatever you do dont switch to something like dvorak just because of vim or one Sup Forumsentoomen's suggestion

I'm belgian and therefore live under the french oppression that is azerty. I watch strapon pegging videos, most of my porn pics are futa, I even pay a guy to draw futa for me, and my girlfriend pretends to be a futa 24/7, yet I'm not as much of a cuck as you are for actually going along with that shit.

Azerty is bullshit and needs to die. I had to buy my current laptop in the netherlands because azerty has turned qwerty into such a meme in this sad excuse for a country that most manufacturers outright don't sell qwerty laptops.

Somebody throw a nuke on france and then on belgium already, please.

see

I’ve been using the bépo layout for two years and a couple of months now. I have to say, at first it was hell, I was typing super slowly, and I damned myself for making this decision.
However, after a month or so, I began to regain a typing speed comparable to normies, and after two months I regained my former typing speed. Now I am a bit faster than I used to be.
For those who don’t know, the bépo layout is a layout inspired by the Dvorak layout that has been optimized for French, thinking also about programmers and it is possible with it to virtually write in any European language —except those using the Cyrillic alphabet. It has also been designed in order to make it the most comfortable possible, and to be able to access characters that cannot be typed with a regular keyboard without the Alt codes, such as ‘É’ or ‘Ç’, as well as the typographic punctuation (using the typographic apostrophe ’ instead of the Programmation apostrophe ' for instance).
As regards the comfort the bépo layout provides, I have to say it does feel much more comfortable than the azerty layout, and it did improve my typing skills. On the downside, I lost a good part of my skill with azerty layouts, though I still can type relatively normally.
Final thing changing my layout brought me: the opportunity to learn to type without looking at the keyboard. This might be the reason why I’m typing faster now, but seriously this helped me so much with it!
Also, I made a few people change from azerty to bépo, and most of them are glad I changed their mind about it, only one or two went back to their old layout (too soon in my opinion, but well…)

But I see why some people refuse to change their layout, and I respect your choice. But to me, it is pointless to try, say, for a week a new layout and claim it’s shit; try for a month, then make you mind up. And if you can’t afford to type like a retard while you learn the new layout, then don’t try, stay on your current layout and stay productive.

Dvorak, Colemak and all the obscure layouts may give a slight improvmenet in typing speed and accuracy, but it comes at the expense of inconvenience when typing on a keyboard that isn't yours.

as I said here , it does indeed reduce your typing speed on a regular keyboard, but you never fully forget its layout. Just be prepared to go back typing like a normie would.

Not sure if I can reply to this huge amount of FUD

>spoken like someone who hasn't looked into any of those layouts
As should have been evident by the number of claims and URLs I provided, I did a great deal of research about alt layouts and tried out a number of them myself.

>citation needed, the fastest verified english language typist used simplified dvorak, she maintained at least 150wpm for 50 minutes with 170wpm in shorter bursts with a maximum of 212wpm
lol “verified”. Look up sean wrona, he sustains 170+ wpm over 50 minutes and bursts at well over 250 wpm. Just because there's no guiness judge standing next to him doesn't make him not the fastest typist in the world.
>while it can take the better part 6-12 months to get back to the typing speed you could get on qwerty it's absolutely possible by every account of any competent typist who has done the switch and maintained it for longer than a year
I type at 150-160 wpm. Please show me somebody doing the same on COLEMAK or QWERTY.

>it's an absolute embarrassment to claim that they do the opposite despite the anecdotes and experiences of literally anyone who has made the swap permanently
I literally provided a lot of links including a link to the fucking COLEMAK users forum where they claimed that colemak will slow you down. The only embarrassment is your inability to read them.

>unnatural hand placement, such as all on the home row with less awkward swapping like on qwerty? please
Yes, read my follow-ups. Home row is unnatural, slows you down and creates strain. Look into e.g. workmanlayout.com/blog/

>are you joking? qwerty scores the worse out of the 3 major layouts for hand alteration and has a lot of common words that string together on one hand, you know, like are and alteration
‘are’ is essentially a single chord, effortlessly typed using three fingers on the left hand while your right hand is free to do something else, which makes it a pretty good example in my books.

The ideal layout (IMO) has a high SHU for word fragments + alternating between left and right fragments, rather than trashing out left and right keystrokes at the same time. This is because digraphs and trigraphs are commonly reused in natural languages, the key is being able to chord (i.e. type them with a single fluid motion requiring no finger reuse) them is of utmost importance, and while chording one di/trigraph your other hand should ideally be free to set up the next one. Home row adherence and same-finger policy is what slows you down and causes RSI..

>I went through the effort of finding a heatmap of the 3 common layouts to demonstrate this point, want to talk about unergonomic? how about having one of the most common letters and vowels on the weakest finger on the hand most people aren't dominant with
Linking a statistic with no justification or research behind its causality is pseudoscience

>again, I guess that colemak being better than dvorak for hand/finger alteration means it's a worse layout :^)
Burden of proof, go find a fucking colemak user who types at 200wpm

>I know average typing speed is increasing but the point here is that a typist using dvorak can be as fast as the fastest in qwerty, and those based on or use similar ideas to the design of dvorak (such as colemak) aren't going to decrease speed like the person I was replying to claimed
There's no justification for assuming that just because colemak is also an alt-layout that it's inherently going to have the same properties as other alt layouts.

For a simple experiment you could try take the QWERTY keyboard and swap the E and P keys (in order to balance out hand utilization). While sounding better on paper, this absolutely cripples your ability to type quickly and efficiently, no matter how much time you spend practicing it - due to a very simple reason: high-effort common digraph (‘he’ in particular). While this is obviously a nonsensical alteration, it's clearly a QWERTY-based keyboard that could be argued to be “improved” based on some nonsensical factor (hand balance) while ignoring more important ones (digraph effort)..

But don't just take my word for it
sacrideo.us/experience-report-with-the-workman-keyboard-layout/
>Effort at Speed is my attempt to capture the idea that the relative ease of an action at speed may not directly correspond to the total theoretical effort required to complete the action. That is, not all actions increase in difficulty at the same rate as their speed of execution increases.
>Thus, for some reason, the actions of the Workman layout scale at speed much better than the actions of the Colemak layout. Put another way, the relative difference in efficiency between the Colemak layout and the Workman layout at speed is larger than at slower speeds, favouring the Workman layout to a greater degree the faster one types.
(cont)

>The same does not hold true comparing the Dvorak and Qwerty layouts against the Workman layout. At lower speeds the Workman layout has an advantage, but as those speeds increase, the Qwerty and Dvorak layouts scale better than the Workman layout, causing the advantage of Workman to shrink substantially, and in the case of the Dvorak layout, possibly disappear.

tl;dr your favorite meme literally scales the most poorly out of all the layouts tested, with qwerty and dvorak both being clear winners.

Obviously there is a lot that goes into the design of a keyboard layout which people typing at 50wpm could never even possibly consider, and this is also a reason you'll never find a 150wpm typist using colemak or workman.

Go fucking prove me wrong.

not using moonrunes

>What's your excuse?
I'm not autistic.

I prefer these moonrunes

I have a question.

>load up a videogame or program like photoshop using qwerty
>everything just werks instantly and i dont have to rebind any commands

will i have this same "just werks" experience with colemak or dvorak?

I know that for bépo you have either the choice between pure bépo and half-bépo, the latter keeps keyboard shortcuts at the same place on the physical keyboard. For instance with the Ctrl-C, it stays a Ctrl-C with pure bépo but becomes a Ctrl-X with half-bépo (the C key in -ERTY keyboards becomes the X key in bépo)
Maybe there’s an equivalent for dvorak and colemak.

Dvorak Programmer.
kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

Also, as regards video games, most of them simply jump on the bépo layout, replacing wasd by éaui for instance (triple A games generally do so, like Skyrim), some don’t detect it’s bépo and considers it as a qwerty keyboard (that’s to say your layout will change to qwerty in game, I don’t have any precise example in mind), and some will need to remap your keys (such as Minecraft).

>using apple keyboards
What's your excuse?

sorry for late reply

>As should have been evident by the number of claims and URLs I provided
>I literally provided a lot of links

there were no links in the post I replied to, are you really bashing me for not being able to discern one anonymous post from another on an anonymous image board? get fucking real

but I'll go back and reply to them anyway

>Just because there's no guiness judge standing next to him doesn't make him not the fastest typist in the world.

the post was getting too long as it was and I was hitting the character cap, I didn't want to make an other huge post to a thread that'd likely die without any new replies (cheers for replying at any rate)

no she likely wasn't the fastest typist at the time of the record (2005) nor was she likely to continue being the fastest typist (in fact average typing speeds have been on an upward trend since then) however her record is important because it was the fastest verified record in a non-qwerty layout that was beating even people typing in qwerty - something people thought wasn't possible - something you at least implied wasn't possible

>I type at 150-160 wpm. Please show me somebody doing the same on COLEMAK or QWERTY.

I did using dvorak, but if you want to move the goalposts (you claimed over 100wpm earlier, maybe you went back and reread those links you posted ^^) that's your prerogative, however I'll do the best I can

Why the fuck there's no hangul in the google keyboard?

You're all a bunch of fucking nerds.

fuck me this is going to be a long one

cont.

going back to your forum link for a second, the guy who made the thread (forum.colemak.com/topic/446-at-120-wpm-on-qwerty-is-it-worth-the-switch-to-colemak/) ended up reaching 100wpm after 2 months (so much for taking a long time huh - forum.colemak.com/topic/267-my-results-after-30-days-104-wpm/ ) and then never posted again, the second reply in the thread mentioned a guy called ryanheise who got 104wpm in ***30 days*** - forum.colemak.com/topic/267-my-results-after-30-days-104-wpm/ he never posted on the forums again (notice a trend) but his hi-games profile (the same website sena wrona used for his 170wpm 50m record) lists him as eventually getting 130wpm with colemak hi-games.net/typing-test/watch?u=1
>Replay of Ryan Heise's highscore of 130 wpm using Colemak

>ddrkirby.com/other/colemak.html

claims 97wpm qwerty to ~120wpm colemak (although they very likely weren't typing properly with qwerty in the first place, I can peak at 100wpm with 3 fingers on qwerty)

>youtube.com/watch?v=L_v_eXrkT_4

136wpm colemak (although it's an easy website to type on, no punctuation)

as for dvorak (colemak is only 10 years old in fairness and has only picked up traction within about 6~ years) there's a few results on youtube over or close to 150wpm, for the sake of brevity

>youtube.com/watch?v=fwdhYLeJc_I
>youtube.com/watch?v=B34JI-2fBZk
>youtube.com/watch?v=rJ7s6gSRgg8
>youtube.com/watch?v=3VUWZHihq_M

granted once again these are all 10fastfingers (easy tests due to no punctuation), but take it more as peak speed rather than average speed

and really, there's so few people who can actually type 150wpm peak nevermind 150wpm average it's not even funny, there's 79 people on typeracer (arguably the most popular typing game) and some of those are definitely using plover (steno)

you too bby

cont.

also after cleaning up some tabs, that ryan hiese owns that bloody hi-games website that sena wrona used, see also: ryanheise.com/colemak/ (with a nice graph comparing qwerty and colemak typing speeds, notice he barely drops 10wpm in qwerty after exceeding his speed in colemak)

>The only embarrassment is your inability to read them.

again, excuse me for not talking about the links outside of a post I was replying to on an anonymous fucking image board

>where they claimed that colemak will slow you down.

a good point, a counter point is that the forums and layout were around 2 years old in the thread you linked, and people are idiots

I can't necessarily find anything for colemak but there have been plenty of anecdotal posts about people's speed improving through dvorak, although I think this has nothing to do with the layout and people learning to type properly instead, one such post being: nayuki.io/page/i-type-in-dvorak
here's another: blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/jaredpar/2009/01/12/dvorak-keyboard-is-it-really-faster/

the problem is so few people document their switch with any reliability and fewer people even provide followups that trying to debunk something like "colemak is slower!!111" is a nightmare, here's one specifically for colemak (on the workman forums): workmanlayout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=17

>It was actually a HUGE relief when I surpassed my previous typing speed for the first time!

something to bear in mind though is that people genuinely switch because they're slow typists to begin with or have rsi/wrist problems with qwerty, that's severely going to hamper people who are fast at qwerty to begin with and switch

for what it's worth, I absolutely do not think the different layouts have significant speed differences beyond learning to type properly in the first place

No need to 'fix' what isn't broken.

It's the standards and always will be no matter how hard you push your meme layouts.

qfmlwy master race
mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization

>Dvorak, Colemak and the other keyboards reduce finger strain

Considering I type on QQWERTY all day and have for most of my life and don't feel any finger strain, I don't see the issue.

derp @name

>effortlessly typed using three fingers on the left hand while your right hand is free to do something else, which makes it a pretty good example in my books.

right, the problem is your right hand could be doing something more productive like typing half of the letters

it's not a solvable problem, however it's a problem dvorak and colemak do better than qwerty

you remember that workman link you scalded me for not reading? part of the trouble they had with exceeding 100wpm was the following:

>Unfortunately, effort at speed and potential parallelism play a large role in the speed of a layout when you are typing fast. The high single hand utilization in the Workman layout means that one hand is too idle too much of the time. I am convinced at this point that good hand alternation is important to the ability to type very quickly.

of course this was immediately after saying they had trouble with typing the colemak layout quickly, (however he says in a later post that colemak is fine for 100-120wpm, despite claiming that he types 120wpm average in qwerty, which is it exactly?)

>Home row adherence and same-finger policy is what slows you down and causes RSI..

again despite claims in that workman blog that colemak is an ergonomic layout

but I'll agree that strict same finger policy will slow you down, if it works better without it you shouldn't be doing it

>Linking a statistic with no justification or research behind its causality is pseudoscience

I thought you did your research? :^)

here, have come carpalx, I hope you like statistical analysis

mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak

>Colemak is more balanced in hand use, with a 6% preference for the right hand (Dvorak has 14% for the right and QWERTY 15% for the left).

>Cumulative run statistics for Colemak are worth looking at. The rhl(0) and rhr(0) are nearly both 50% (0.55 and 0.49, respectively). This means that half of the time successive keystrokes use the same hand and that this characteristic is symmetric with respect to the left and right hands. In other words, Colemak is very good at maintaining hand alternation for both hands. Consecutive uses of the home row is also favourable in Colemak, with 85% of runs having a length of Burden of proof, go find a fucking colemak user who types at 200wpm

I didn't mean to imply colemak is strictly faster than dvorak

(honestly though there's so few people that can even peak 200wpm it's not even funny)

>There's no justification for assuming that just because colemak is also an alt-layout that it's inherently going to have the same properties as other alt layouts.

no, that's why I said based on similar design ideals (i.e., hand alteration), linked statistical sources re last post

>tl;dr your favorite meme literally scales the most poorly out of all the layouts tested, with qwerty and dvorak both being clear winners.

scaled the worse based on the subjective opinions of *one* person, who has said he types as fast as colemak/workman as he does qwerty and dvorak, who also says colemak/workman are more ergonomic than qwerty/dvorak

>which people typing at 50wpm could never even possibly consider
>implying

>and this is also a reason you'll never find a 150wpm typist using colemak or workman.
>Go fucking prove me wrong.

data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=shrimpneck

well that was easy, here it is cached on sean wrona's website: seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=shrimpneck

I can't be arsed going to find more on typeracer since it requires viewing each individual profile so here's another on a different website: hi-games.net/typing-test,30/watch?u=96

honestly, cheers mate, I was considering putting learning newer layout off but I think it's time I ditch my 100wpm peak with 3 fingers qwerty and learn a proper layout

>Considering I type on QQWERTY all day and have for most of my life and don't feel any finger strain, I don't see the issue.

if you like qwerty or at least type fast in it there's no point learning another layout, the common reasons for switching layouts are injuries or because people never learned to type properly in the first place

how is all that shit even being measured

you
have
to
be
fucking
kidding
ME!
OS wars
Language wars
Text editor wars
Window Manager wars
stop this fucking crazy stupidity.

>not using Dvorak exclusively since 2007

I was a fast QWERTY typer, but got up to my old qwerty speed in 2 weeks of using Dvorak everyday. I have since surpassed my old QWERTY speed, (yet retain the ability to use QWERTY whenever necessary, even though I find it to be a rather retarded [literally] layout).

tl;dr Dvorak master race.

allahu akbar

I think it is time to go check you eyesight, it’s becoming very, VERY bad holy fuck.

is that khmer

>khmer
a bit closer, but still not it.

maybe we should go back to chink shit shilling, so many graphics card threads, phone of the month threads, graphics card benchmarks, graphics card wars, help me with my build, NVIDIA BTFO, AMD BTFO threads :^)

>how is all that shit even being measured

they go into detail elsewhere on the site but essentially they use a large-ish sample of text (probably books iirc) (and applied to a-z letter placement including ; on the homrow) and do some statistical analysis based on factors they consider important such as likelyhood the key is on the home row, average movement of each finger to type words in those text, hand/finger alterations etc

they've released their program so you can mess about with your own source of input (they suggest anything previously written by you such as emails, essays, chat logs etc) and you can likely filter results based on factors you deem important

>my girlfriend pretends to be a futa 24/7
How does that work?

Dvorak should be available out of the box on every OS, Colemak is available on every modern OS that isn't Windows (on Windows, you have to use a small installer once to add the layout)

Colemak feels better than the spanish QWERTY layout, alt+gr aeiou to get áéíóú instead of pressing a tilde dead key the a/e/i/o/u, and symbols like / in a non-retarded place (though this is already in US QWERTY). An extra key for the ñ isn't necessary, it's not a common letter so altgr+n is enough.

>here, have come carpalx, I hope you like statistical analysis
Where in that link does it prove any causative link between the statistics measured and RSI/carpel tunnel syndrome?

>Where in that link does it prove any causative link between the statistics measured and RSI/carpel tunnel syndrome?

so when I made those posts way back when,

I clearly didn't read the bloody post properly which definitely seems to make the rest of my posts look like FUD now I'm going back and re-reading the posts I replied to

the carpalx link is there because I was going off of the assumption the OP in the reply chain was bashing on colemak for reasons of speed/typing efficiency because it was mentioned dvorak is better for maintaining speed over colemak because dvorak, like qwerty, has better degrees of parallelism and hand alteration than colemak (the carpalx instead shows colemak has the best hand/finger alteration, followed closely by dvorak with qwerty in last place)

so while I'm absolutely 100% wrong in the context of the thread, I still stand by what I said in the context I thought I was replying to, namely that colemak isn't any worse than dvorak or qwerty for typing efficiency

I don't buy that qwerty causes rsi and I'm half inclined to believe that people learning to touch type properly in the first place is responsible for fixing any pains while typing

so I'm sorry for any user that read my multiple walls of text to get to that point

as a final addendum, something that irks me about the workman blog is the following:

>Colemak has the benefits of key commonality with QWERTY which makes integration with other applications and keyboard shortcuts nicer. Workman is the more efficient of the two layouts and definitely provides some benefits.

from the most recent 2016 update, this is despite the fact that they claim they type in 100-120wpm over all 4 layouts but finds workman more efficient (despite having higher degrees of words being chained together) and that dvorak is better than workman still because workman has more alterations, why, then, do carpalx and other efficiency studies find colemak more efficient?

not true, vim with colemak is no problem. hjkl is for autistic babbies

you should be able to type comfortably with one thumb on qwerty

or are you some sort of retarded fuck who thinks massive phones are anything but chinese shillshit meant to fuckup peoples backs?

technology is no longer ergonomic at all, ever wonder why?

>being this much of a contrarian

I get 100WPM with qwerty, why would I change something that I've done for 20+ years now? Actually give me a good reason and I will consider it.