Why aren't we using ARM CPUs in desktops? Aren't they more power efficient?

Why aren't we using ARM CPUs in desktops? Aren't they more power efficient?

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>Power efficient
>Desktop
Nice b8

make a powerful arm chip and you will be getting the same performance for less power. isn't that good?

>make a powerful arm chip
you can't do that for the same reason why Intel tried (and failed) to make a less powerful x86 chip for your phone.

It will be inefficient to run x86 code on it, no?

Ehh, what software would you be planning to run on this theoretical desktop computer? Most desktop software is running as x86 instructions, not ARM.

There's no reason you can't make a powerful desktop ARM SoC. No one is willing to spend the money developing one yet.

Would people be interested in a moderately powerful ARM pc? I found a SoC with 4x 2ghz A72 cores, PCie lanes and open firmware but it would need a gpu. There's supposed to be 8, 16 and 32 core versions in 2017 that are probably pin compatible. It would probably cost about $50,000 to get it into production via crowd funding.

>It would probably cost about $50,000 to get it into production via crowd funding.
You are underestimating the price of an ARM license by an order of magnitude.

I use PPC, much better than ARM shit or x86

Because they're all about power efficiency, not power. If it was as powerful as X86, it'd be a lot less efficient.

>Aren't they more power efficient?
Why would that matter? Also, the processing power of ARM SoCs is directly proportional to the blobs they need, with the better ones available now days requiring signed blobs at multiple levels to even boot.

Right, and next you'll argue for the legalization of pedophilia. That's where your kind of slippery slope moral relativism leads.

If you care about efficiency, why do you want a desktop?

Use a laptop, or fucking even an orange pi plus 2 and shut the fuck up

>$50,000 only to produce
Intel/AMD put millions/billions in production and you expect that to compete? lmao

The production costs of a chip is closer to 100M though

Because there's a shitload of proprietary software desktop users use every day that isn't compiled for ARM, which the developers can't be fucked to recompile for ARM.

They only are more efficient at a low power. At a higher power (eg. desktop use), x86 is more efficient.

There's a contradiction in what you wrote.

Arm cpus have poor IPC (instruction per cycle) - its a trade-off for simplicity and low transistor count.
Arm cpus don't have advanced instruction sets (aesni, avx, sse). Same thing, such instuctions require huge amount of transistors.
Arm cpus cant clock high. There is no 2.5+ghz chips on the market. I'm not sure but it also might be architecture limitation, eg long chains of logic gates.

No, its not. You don't get it is all.
ARM chips are small because that's where they excel. They are most efficient when they're small, low power units.
When Intel tried to make competition, their x86 models couldn't provide the same power:efficiency and so they gave up.
If ARM was to upscale their chips to the same power as x86 chips however, their efficiency would go to shit.

Learn to fucking read you mongoloid.

>companies spend billions on something
>this has anything to do with its intrinsic value
you know companies just love to burn through money and inflate prices for no reason

While you are correct to an extent, such as in the case of Gillette spending "$300,000,000" developing the mach III, manufacturing "good" microprocessors is expensive. Why do you think so many others besides Intel and AMD failed?

>Because there's a shitload of proprietary software desktop users use every day that isn't compiled for ARM, which the developers can't be fucked to recompile for ARM.
Only Normies care about proprietary software.

>run x86 code
Why?

Will x86/86-64 stay forever until the end of time?

I think they kinda succeeded

Of course not. It'll eventually be taken over by something else, but the transition will be slow and painful as fuck due to MUH LEGUSY

>slow and painful
Only if you use pig-disgusting non-free software.

Even for free as in freedom software, it'll be a slow as fuck and painful experience.
>Implying being free as in freedom isn't already slow and painful as fuck

>slow as fuck and painful experience.
How so?

The Software is often slower and/or less feature filled.
It crashes more often than proprietary options.
Updates can be a lot slower to come around, if they do at all.
And besides all that, you'll never be free from the NSA/FBI anyway.

The one who should learn to read and to express ideas with the proper words is you.

You said exactly what I said, except in a wrong way, twice. And you're so stupid that you started attacking and insulting me as soon as you saw my critique to your way of expressing yourself.

>ARM chips ... are most efficient when they're small
>If ARM was to upscale ... their efficiency would go to shit

What's different from what I said in ?
>They only are more efficient at a low power. At a higher power (eg. desktop use), x86 is more efficient.

...the idiocy of who wrote the former, that's what's different.

>Implying I'd read what you wrote in a response not aimed at me
Get fucked, cuck.

Cortex A53 roughly matches n2840 and Cortex A72 (non-gimped) matches the firsr intel core M's or celeron g1840 in integer and float performance, doesn't seem very attractive to me

He probably thinks a magic company will just come out of nowhere after amd dies.

>build ARM gaming rig
>have no games or production software that would require the crunching power
Your business plan needs more thinking. A lot more.

Are you a big guy?

Linux can be (and usually is) compiled to ARM. Raspberry distros all use ARM architecture.

The latest Nvidia Tegra also did this voodoo code translation mumbo-jumbo.

But I do user

Just buy an integrated Atom CPU or "Intel Compute Stick". Try using an Ubuntu on there. You will realize how big the performance gap is.

>games
Children should be play in the dirt. It strengthens their immune system.
>production software that would require the crunching power
Octave
R
Ardour
Blender
Compilers
...

>Just buy an integrated Atom CPU or "Intel Compute Stick". Try using an Ubuntu on there. You will realize how big the performance gap is.
Fast ARM CPUs do exist, my friend.
AMD Opteron A1100.

>Fast ARM CPUs do exist, my friend.
Yeah, but are they cheap?

I mean a top-tier ARM SoC is piss cheap.
So is an Atom.

But what about a better one like this A1100?
Compared to a "low-power" Intel Core CPU?

The AMD ARM Opterons have lots more cache and memory bandwidth than any Intel Atom.

That's alright, but what about raw performance?
Too bad passmark does not have these A series Opterons. (Too lazy to check if there is a Passmark for ARM at all.)

>raw performance
Define raw performance

>A1100
that's not even out yet senpai, and not sure if it ever will be

Something you can compare. A benchmark suite like Passmark. Something you could compare.

>Passmark
Proprietary and as such useless

Mah nigga

I'm not a freetard but I do have to say the free software movement makes using different architectures so much better. There's no way I'd be able use everything I need on PowerPC and MIPS processors without it

ok ok, linpack then, bro, get the hint.

ewww

Windows has parts that are written in x86 assembly. Rewriting them in ARM would take years. Same with drivers.

>Windows
Irrelevant Normie OS

This would cost millions of dollars.

Cute, what tablet?

>tfw no Debian phone
Every single phone OS sucks.

Because there's not really a reason to. The only benefit I can think of is cost but that just means it'd appeal to casuals more until they realize they can't run their Windows programs on it.

BB10OS doesn't

I ain't buying BB anytime soon nigga.

Enjoy your inferior phone

>Windows has parts that are written in x86 assembly. Rewriting them in ARM would take years
>what is Windows RT

>HURR DURR WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE USE A CHIPSET THAT LITERALLY NOBODY HAS WRITTEN ANY DESKTOP APPLICATIONS FOR

>HURR DURR YOU DON'T NEED YOUR DESKTOP APPLICATIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

>HURR DURR DON'T USE PHOTOSHOP WHEN U CAN USE GIMP INSTEAD HURR DURR!!!!!

Fucking libtards GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD

Because ARM fucking blows. It has horrible single thread performance which means to get basic i3 desktop performance you'd need to to cool a dual-core ARM chip with liquid nitrogen and make it stay at 10 GHz or have like 10 cores running at 2GHz which will result in horrible single thread performance (worse than AMD). It also has horrible performance per watt so expect higher electrical bills. Finally it's incompatible with x86 software which is the reason why people get a desktop in the first place. Some people want to do more than play angry birds, crazy I know.

>he doesn't know this is a freetard board
lurk more xd

ARM linux software sucks really really bad to be honest. Tried to get used to having a raspberry pie as a desktop with debian mobile on it but all the software just plain fucking blows.

>debian mobile
Opinion discarded, you're just that shitty troll

It is what it is man. The full x86 desktop of Debian does more than the ARM mobile version of Debian. Deal with it.

>LITERALLY NOBODY HAS WRITTEN ANY DESKTOP APPLICATIONS FOR
Literally thousands of free desktop applications work just fine on ARM.

>Intel/AMD put millions/billions in production and you expect that to compete? lmao
I didn't say make a SoC. A company already has this SoC, the 4x A72 version with pcie and SATA is out now, the 8, 16 and 32 core versions are due 2017.

They are just using them in NAS and networking products for now, no one has made a SBC computer from them. There's a dev board but it's filled with SATA and 10Gbe ports.

All you need to do is have a board designed with a decent amount of USB ports and other things like audio.

>The full x86 desktop of Debian does more than the ARM mobile version of Debian
Name one difference. You can't.

That's just, assberry pi man, try odroid c2 or dragonboard 410c, everything open source on x86 works the same on them

Well, pathetic frogposter, those 'Normies' are the driving force that dictates this sort of shit.

But they all blow. Call me when they port the desktop version of photoshop or the desktop version of adobe premiere pro cc to ARM.

ARM itself also fucking blows, performance is just abysmal. Might be able to do some video editing if thet made an ARM chip with 1 million cores, maybe.

>It is what it is man
Yeah, it's just Debian.
>The full x86 desktop of Debian does more than the ARM mobile version of Debian
But that's wrong. Eat a dick, you fucking twat.

Those things are already DOA. See pic related.

Photoshop doesn't run on x86 Linux either, user.

Carefull don't believe everything you get told at architecture class. Lookup ARM Neon. IPC and frequency doesn't mean shit with a really good branch predictor and instruction prefetcher. I have a friend who's intern there and he told me there is some insane shit coming up (he's also pissed about the softbank thing) .

>claims to """""need""""" Photoshop
>is actually unemployed or not employed in digital media at all

ARM will always be 10 steps behind x86 though. By the time they make an OK chip, intel will already have something 2-4X more energy efficient than

Windows couldn't be ported to it.

Actually, Apple could make their desktop line use ARM chips. Maybe it'll turn out like this in the future.

>Actually, Apple could make their desktop line use ARM chips. Maybe it'll turn out like this in the future.
Apple is irrelevant now. They milked the logo too much and now normies are bored of it. All they have now is overpriced turds less people want to buy now.

Windows has been ported to ARM already - it is called Windows RT. It didn't sell though, no legacy software & MS forced it to use the shitty tile interface for everything but Office.

Well, yeah. But Apple is already experienced in switching architectures.

see

>be freetard
>don't even notice an architecture change
>mfw

Not on Mac, they put the App Store on x86 and it still failed to get many people from downloading software directly from publishers.
But I think they're bruteforcing it now, starting by removing the Anywhere option from Gatekeeper in Sierra.

> Apple Cyclone is ARM
> Performance is fucking fast
> hurr durr

>Windows has parts that are written in x86 assembly. Rewriting them in ARM would take years.
Not really. Windows is written in C++, C and C#. Only parts of it is written in assembler for performance. And as said earlier the OS is already ported to ARM.

>desktop
>power efficiency
Who gives a shit. I want raw power you faggot. It's a desktop not a fucking smartphone.

>raw power
Botnet power (c) Intel feat. Microsoft

intel processors have one botnet in the CPU, ARM boards have 5 in each component (SoC, wireless module, video module (assberry Pi has a threadX microkernel in the videocore))

raptorengineering.com/TALOS/prerelease.php
POWER
O
W
E
R

AMD Opteron A1100 isn't a SoC and doesn't have WiFi or video

I'm so hyped for this

Apple A9x is stronger than core i5 and use less than 10% off energy

one word: video games
btfo

>for around $3,700 USD

Oh my fucking god.

Economy of scale

1) desktops are dead market
2) Intel lobby
3) is more profitable work with cellphones and tables
4) apple now work in a MacBook powered by a arm processor
5) developers are too lazy too make a migration

Show me a cheaper free as in freedom system with comparable performance

Unless it's Xeon tier or better not worth the price desu

Instruction Set Architecture (ISA), isn't particularly relevant as far as performance and efficiency is concerned in general use cases. The reason ARM can't get into the desktop market is that it can't run the already existing commercial software, so no one wants to develop a competitively high performance processor to compete in the desktop space. It's not about any particular property of the ISA's but the fact that they are different and one already dominates the market.