Http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-zen-cpu-microarchitecture,32540.html

ZEN COFIRMED DOA

ZEN+ IN THE WORKS

Other urls found in this thread:

anandtech.com/bench/product/362?vs=700
anandtech.com/bench/product/362?vs=1684
anandtech.com/show/10436/amd-carrizo-tested-generational-deep-dive-athlon-x4-845/7
jonpeddie.com/publications/add-in-board-report/
anandtech.com/bench/product/399?vs=1270
hardware.fr/news/14755/amd-continue-gagner-parts-marche-gpu.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

shit thread
tl;dr

zen's unlikely to be ground breaking but it lays a solid foundation for zen+ to be a shit kicker

as per the usual i5 2500k 4 lyfe

>(((tom's hardware)))

Get a load of this pajeet.

AMD announced at their 2015 FAD that work on the Zen+ core was already well under way.
How you can manged to try and spin this into a negative is beyond me.

AYYYYYMD FINISHED AND BANKRUPT

Oh the denial and rationalism has already begun I see

I don't understand what the thought process is- this is good news. This is AMD expecting Zen to do well enough to support a Zen+ a few years later.
Intel is working on shit like 4 generations ahead

As hilarious as the massive shitstorm of Bulldozer's release was, really don't want a repeat of that. AMD needs this to sell, Bulldozer flopping almost caused them to back out of the high end CPU market entirely.

can't wait for
>j-just wait for zen+!!!

and for intel, "4 generations ahead" means "15% improvement" at cost parity.

nobody wants/expects zen to beat kaby lake

this is going to turn into the same fucking situation as the rx 480 where you shills are going to superhype the fucking architecture with retarded outlandish claims and then act like it's a disaster when it doesn't live up to it

>shills are going to superhype the fucking architecture with retarded outlandish claims and then act like it's a disaster when it doesn't live up to it
Fanboy retards always do this. They're so completely adverse to reason its almost like they're paid to spread disinfo to make the product seem worse at launch by the competition.

Zen is AMD's P6. What their K6 arch could have been if they had stuck with it after K10/10.5.
They told reporters that they had an internal roadmap showing their plans for the Zen core arch several generations down the line. Its here to stay for a number of years, and they're aiming for high performance with it.

>Oh the AMD Hype has already begun again

Fix'd

Drones will never stop overhyping

Not to say Zen is guaranteed to fail, but AMD having roadmaps for followups is no guarantee of success either. AMD had plans for several generations of the Bulldozer line as well, and we all know how that went.

Zen however is guaranteed to be better than anything in the BD family.

True, but that isn't exactly an accomplishment.

It is for AMD who haven't been able to do anything meaningful on the CPU front for performance since the Phenom II.
Excavator barely manages to be neck and neck with the Phenom II line clock for clock, and Zen is promising a 40% average IPC increase over it.

For a new starting point with brand new arch thats pretty good.

KABYLAKE CONFIRMED DOA

CANNONLAKE IN THE WORKS

For those of us still rocking Phenom IIs it will finally be the chance to upgrade. I am cautiously optimistic.

anandtech.com/bench/product/362?vs=700
anandtech.com/bench/product/362?vs=1684
anandtech.com/show/10436/amd-carrizo-tested-generational-deep-dive-athlon-x4-845/7

A 40% uplift over Excavator is a decent uplift over the highest clock Phenom II SKUs. Going by the shear size of the FPU in Zen its safe to say it'll be better on all fronts, no trade offs in int vs fp performance.

If the core really does follow Excavator's power per clock scaling, then 7w per core equates to 2800mhz. An 8 core 65w part thats a direct upgrade from the 125w Phenom II X6 1100T would be hard to ignore. 3200mhz should be just 10w per core. A quad core desktop chip with moderate clocks could come in under 65w and be a worthy upgrade to any Phenom II X4.

FinFET devices scale completely differently from planar ones though, so the Zen core can't have the same voltage/clock curve that Excavator has. It likely only meets on a few key points. It should scale down in clocks much, much better.
Not that this is of any interest for the average user.

relevant

>Zen is complete shit but Zen+ will surely be good! Just wait!
The cycle of AMD continues

Power per Core Pair

XVR with AVFS
3700mhz: 22.5w~
3500mhz: 16w~
3150mhz: 10w~
2800mhz: 7w~
2450mhz: >5w~
2100mhz: 3w~
1750mhz: >2.5w~

STR
3700mhz: 25w~
3500mhz: 20w~
3150mhz: 14w~
2800mhz: 10w~
2450mhz: 7.5w~
2100mhz: 6w~
1750mhz: 4.5w~


So thats what AMD is comparing Zen to power wise. Its safe to say peak perf/watt frequency isn't on the higher side since the Summit Ridge dies are primarily fabbed for Opterons.

>Intel+Nvidia consistently release great products
>AMD keeps making huge promises and falling short of them
>j-just wait!
Why do people willingly cuck themselves into buying AMD? You fags couldve bought an i7 and a GTX 1080 now and enjoyed great performance instead of waiting for a unicorn to appear.

Really hope my FX6350 lasts until Zen+

Sup Forums knows absolutely nothing about how cpus work which is why there is only shitposting when it comes to cpu news.

In general the average post here doesn't know a single thing beyond what smartphones are coming out, and what meme programming languages are trending.

Not too long ago there was some autismal fuck constantly posting FUD about Summit Ridge only have single channel memory per CCX, and doubly claiming that the L3 was isolated per CCX as well.
He'd show up in every single thread repeating the same thing.

Funny how the little shill autist disappeared.

I wouldn't be surprised if its The Stilt posting on Sup Forums.

Ohh that fags on ocn all the time shitposting but making it look legit lol

Dunno, could have also been Seronx. He's been pretty fuckin derpy when it comes to Zen shit as well.

>people here have no single fucking clue about how semiconductor businesses work
By the time the first design of the architecture hits silicon they've already designed the next two updates based on that architecture.
AMD made some shitty bet on more cores and thus lost to intel for a several years no matter how competent they are. By the time they realised it they couldn't do anything but ship whatever they had at the time.

That would be hilarious, and entirely believable.

Hes a legit schizophrenic, and a tremendous AMD fanboy. The Stilt however has some vendetta where he tries to contort everything to somehow be a negative for AMD.

But my Fury X and FX 8 core works great for me

Huh, learn something new everyday.

The Stilt though I agree, he's always starting shit on OCN. Fortunately block lists are a thing.

>nobody wants ... zen to beat kaby lake
I want Zen to beat Kaby Lake. I want Zen to be the second best processor ever made, beaten only by Zen+ as the most stunning achievement of mankind with the unlimited power fanboys said the Cell had. I also want my girlfriend to be permanently attached to my penis and to never age. I don't expect either of those things though.

>Nvidia
>Consistantly great

Shill Shill go away
Earn your pay another day

Fanboyism knows no bounds. Doesn't matter how educated(allegedly) someone is.

let me rephrase that. I want a platform that's not made by Intel. it doesn't matter to me whether or not it's faster. only that it's more than fast enough, which Zen is looking to be.

I am most assuredly not the only one.

OCN is so fucking lenient on the threadshitters in the news section. There really are about 10 posters that routinely go into an AMD focused thread and shit it up with off topic comparisons to Nvidia or Intel.

At least Chev Chelios got banned.

>AMD product comes to reality
>It sucks
>Drones start talking about how great the future is going to be

Every fucking time, this is getting sad.

80% marketshare doesn't lie.
Having the best GPUs that wont set your house on fire doesn't lie.

>AMD executives repeated the "Zen is not a destination; it's a starting point" mantra during both of the Zen presentations in an obvious ploy to tease the forthcoming Zen+.

JUST KEEP WAITING
GOOD JOB PAJEET

It is actually 70 percent now. AMD is up at 30 percent as of most recent numbers.

AMD is the Chicago Cubs of the tech industry.

Its not 80% anymore. In fact AMD has been gaining marketshare for over a year.

jonpeddie.com/publications/add-in-board-report/

why are people so obsessed with what other people spend their money on? is it autism or are people just that pathetic?

Baser human tribal instincts, and dire autism.
Fanboyism is basically just an extension of my tribe vs your tribe after all.

I actually hate that Zen isn't looking like a dud because now I can't wait for it to be released
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Yeah bro i really want to make a build but still no zen till probs feb 2017

/requesting/ the AMD fanboy starter pack image

AYYMD IS FINISHED & BANKRUPT

How can it be a failure if it's never going to be released?

Where's looking at the end of 2017 at the earliest for desktop Zen

>download intel driver app
>never finds the right drivers or claims an update even though you have the same one
>ends up having malware in it

yeah intel is awesome

>falling for the AMD waiting meme

what a shitshow

>I am most assuredly not the only one.
I agree with you there. I wouldn't mind if Zen gave mind boggling performance but for now, it's of little interest to me. I'm buying Bristol Ridge on launch because it nicely fits into the "good enough" bracket and because I enjoyed overclocking every part of my Kaveri chip. Going by how AMD have previously done things, I should be able to just slot in a Raven Ridge chip when that time comes.

Yeah cant wait for that Haswell performance in 2 thousand fucking 17.

>the end of 2017 at the earliest for desktop Zen
Erm, what? If you had said mobile Zen I'd be on board but AMD have been fairly consistent about saying late 2016 with full availability in 2017. I'm guessing that means a CES launch.

>AYYMDkeks have been waiting half a decade for this

You say that as if Intel has long since left Haswell in the dirt, markedly improving performance since that time.

A few low end mobile Zen chips MIGHT be available in 2016 just so they can tell their shareholders they launched Zen in 2016

Actual good Zen chips MIGHT launch in 2017 if they don't get delayed again, and by that time Intel will have launched several new lines of processors putting them even further behind

still doesnt change the fact AMD is years behind the competition

Hes shitposting, just spammed the same thing across a bunch of threads.

Raven Ridge APUs are due out mid 2017. Summit Ridge beginning of the year with limited availability end of this year.

Stop talking about things you're clueless about.

>low end mobile Zen chips MIGHT be available in 2016
Wow, as the other user said, you really are clueless. You're a mucous eating oaf. Just for clarification, Zen won't be hitting APUs until Raven Ridge, which is not this time around. The FX series won't have an IGP and you'll never get laptop manufacturers to put two chips in a low end laptop because of costs. I seriously doubt you'll get manufacturers to put any chip without an IGP in a laptop any time soon.

>Zen however is guaranteed to be better than anything in the BD family.

That's what they said about Bulldozer against the Phenom too.

No, its actually not.
One marketing guy on Overclock.net was spouting bullshit like this totally without anyone's approval.

What AMD themselves said about Bulldozer was this:
>Throughput advantages for multi-threaded workloads without significant loss on serial single-threaded workload components
>without significant loss
>admitting very clearly that there is some loss

AMD showed what the Bulldozer arch was, only internet fanboys refused to listen. Exactly as they always do. AMD was showing Zambezi competing against some intel chips in very specific integer bound workloads, not making direct clock to clock comparisons vs their own prior arch.

Stop twisting the facts around to fit your bullshit narrative.
The situation with Zen is nothing like Bulldozer.

>It's shit but the next one will be better
Always Massive Disappointment does it again.

I wonder how an improved, 14nm K10 would fare against Zen.

Look at the CPU component of Llano.
Per clock it was up to 5%-10% faster than a comparable Athlon II X4 without L3. They conceivably could have kept evolving the core arch, but it would have taken considerable work.

Per clock Llano can still hold its own against Kaveri.
anandtech.com/bench/product/399?vs=1270

Llano has no turbo core, its fixed 2.9ghz all the time. The Kaveri chip turbos up to 3.8ghz. Multicore scaling in Steamroller is still worse, and given how far behind Trinity was in FPU performance it wouldn't have changed much in Kaveri.

That's so long ago at this point that you might as well be speculating about how things would have been if the bizarre code morphing thing Transmeta had going on worked well enough to be competitive.

Not that good.

In fact Zen is more like K10 than Bulldozer+ since it basically adds hyper-threading, improves cache performance, new instruction sets, etc. compared to K10.

The only real thing wrong with Bulldozer+ was the cache performance. But Intel was so successful with SMT (hyper-threading), that AMD basically just wanted to go that route instead of trying another CMT design.

Not him but Kaveri has some fairly serious issues with turbo. There's been tons of speculation about it but no one seems to have figured out why. Regardless, I can guarantee that Kaveri isn't actually hitting, let alone maintaining, those turbo clocks. Putting that aside, one can't normalise for clock rate in a situation like that as that's an intrinsic part of the architecture. There's also the argument to be made that Kaveri was optimised for lower TDPs than Llano ever was which some have speculated is the cause of the terrible turbo problem. Essentially what I'm saying is that it's SERIOUSLY hard to speculate on this because there's just so much going on.

>its good, you just dont understand!
AMD

There is no issue at all, its a design feature.
The APUs throttle CPU clocks when the IGP is used, otherwise they would exceed TDP. Llano and Trinity/Richland all drew up to 130/140w. Kaveri cut it down to 95w through heavy throttling.

If you're only using the CPU component of the chip then the clocks are stable.

So is there an AMD CPU which can replace my current i5 3570K @4.5GHZ in gaming?

Cache performance was horrible indeed, but Bulldozer also has low single thread performance by design (few execution units).

>If you're only using the CPU component of the chip then the clocks are stable.
Unfortunately not, no. There seems to be some weird voodoo shit going on with the way Kaveri turbos and throttles, that's speaking from experience. I tried mine with a gt 610 and the IGP disabled, it still wouldn't turbo properly. Even when overclocking, it has problems maintaining clocks but only in some workloads, not in others. It just seems that AMD didn't really figure out of turbo until Carrizo.

But it *is* good, just not for what the average end user would want to do. AMD misjudged the market by around half a decade, shame really.

I really want Zen to be great, but I doubt it will change much. Odds are Haswell will outperform it, which gives most people little reason to care.

Plus it's hard to forget the hype Bulldozer had just to fail hard.

This is Sup Forums, if it doesn't play call of duty its shit because anything else is beyond this board's understanding.

Pic related - ignoring the highlighted 9590 (as the picture is from a review of it) consider the 8350's age and where it sits in this benchmark.

> but Bulldozer also has low single thread performance by design (few execution units).

Core width is not indicative of performance. Two ALUs and AGUs per int core in the BD derived chips would have considerably higher IPC if they could actually get fed instructions in a timely and reliable manner. Excavator could conceivably match Sandy Bridge without being any wider. Its entirely a matter of feeding the ALUs.
Keep in mind that Sandy Bridge's 3rd ALU(all prior SMT Core i arch as well) is so under utilized in a normal workload that its available to process the additional logical thread. That additional logical thread provides a 30%~ uplift in multicore performance.
The multicore scaling of CMT is around 80%~


I definitely wouldn't call it good. Its passable for certain things, but most certainly not good.
There are far too frequent pipeline stalls in the arch for it be deserving of any praise.

Its absurdly dishonest to look at 2nd pass results without 1st pass.

Honestly though, why is this STILL a thing? This board sounds like a fucking broken record when it comes to AMD shit and it's just fucking unbelievable. People here go out their way to literally market anything AMD related, even going as far as that fucking autist that made a 17 minutes long vocaroo recording licking amd's ass regarding async compute, as well as spreading FUD over every single thing intel and nvidia related. Then they hype the ever living fuck out of fucking EVERYTHING amd makes and it never - E V E R - delivers. It has never fucking delivered since the goddamn phenom and people are STILL doing this crap here.

This is just fucking unbelievable, seriously, I just have no words. Part of me wishes this is just the same people wanting to have some kind of fun but I know it's not true and it just makes me cringe as hard as humanly possible when I just glimpse the sight of a poor sad fat fuck hunched over his keyboard defending whatever amd POS he bought as if his life depended on it. It's not even funny anymore, this is just fucking sad.

>But it *is* good
Just like the Pentium 4

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Don't forget how they start backpedalling on the hype they themselves created.

I have lost count of many times the newest AMD turd came out and their Sup Forums pajeets started going
>n-nobody s-said i-it was g-gonna be a-any b-better anyway! I a-actually l-like it this w-way!
Like I've seen these miserables fucks do after the so hyped polaris turned out to be yet another overhyped piece of shit.

>it's good! It's just a piece of crap for anything real world but in a theoretical world it's good!

Indeed, AMD.

And then you remember that rendering is literally the one thing this shitty CPU line up is good at whereas for everything else it's IPC that matters. Big fucking whoop.

Calm down pajeet. Your pay isn't high enough to afford trips.

>ZEN+ IN THE WORKS
No shit. And Kaby Lake has been in development since before Sky Lake was released.

>toms goyware

It's fine for anything but manchild tier gaming

It's also 90% the same performance as an i7 without a 300% markup. Pretty sweet deal actually.

Of course; they built it into their Zen logo (circle of smeared poo)

>It's fine for anything but manchild tier gaming

And so is any i3 that is cheaper, better, doesn't need an aftermarket cooler just to not sound like a jet taking off while throttling the ever living fuck out of itself and uses way less electricity while producing less heat.

>It's also 90% the same performance as an i7 without a 300% markup

For encoding and useless synthetic, yeah.

Fun fact: number 3 of the top500 is Opteron based.

>it's IPC that matters
I've seen this repeated so many times. No, it's not just IPC, that's just one aspect that makes up performance. IPC doesn't count for shit if the chip doesn't reach high enough clocks. IPC is not absolute performance and you should stop saying shit that makes it out to be absolute performance.

hardware.fr/news/14755/amd-continue-gagner-parts-marche-gpu.html

Mercury research normalises their numbers - you should read their methodolgy.