C Programming Language Hits a 15-Year Low On The TIOBE Index

C Programming Language Hits a 15-Year Low On The TIOBE Index

Gamoid writes:
>The venerable C programming language hit a 15-year low on the >TIOBE Index, perhaps because more mobile- and web-friendly >languages like Swift and Go are starting to eat its lunch.

"The C programming language has a score of 11.303%, which is its lowest score ever since we started the TIOBE index back in 2001," writes Paul Jansen, manager of TIOBE Index. With that said, C is still the second most popular programming language in the world, behind only Java. Also worth noting as mentioned by Matt Weinberger via Business Insider, "C doesn't currently have a major corporate sponsor; Oracle makes a lot of money from Java; Apple pushes both Swift and Objective-C for building iPhone apps. But no big tech company is getting on stage and pushing C as the future of development. So C's problems could be marketing as much as anything."

C FAGS BTFO!

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tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/
infoworld.com/article/2920333/mobile-development/swift-vs-objective-c-10-reasons-the-future-favors-swift.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

aside from the fact that all the hip and pretty languages are built on top of C

when people inevitably forget how it works technology is going to break completely i fuckin swear

>muh popularity contest

like this matter in anyway

>C is still the second most popular programming language in the world

This seems misleading because TIOBE is about quality/relevance. If they're counting shit like retarded second worlders and street shitters running legacy systems because those are relevant to the economy then okay whatever, but The Language of the Future™ and the languages that make the most money certainly aren't fucking C.

Like you have to be legit Down Syndrome or some clueless NEET if you think C is still relevant in the grand scheme of things or even in the next decade, have memes gone too far?

>I'm a webdev

>I'm an unemployed basement dweller
>I'm an embedded monkey

The day C dies will be a good day for all of us. Then people can start writing quality software without having to worry about trivial safety nonsense.

b-but how can you get your marginal performance increase without fiddling with memory directly

You're so fucking clueless.
C is the foundation of most things with modern computing. Language interpreters, operating systems, libraries, networking, embedded programming, high performance software, etc.
C just does it's job so well. No other language is even close to replacing C.

C is going to be relevant for a very long time.

>when people inevitably forget how it works technology is going to break completely i fuckin swear
As long as people know how compilers work, there is hope. Although, you don't seem to know, so you are hopeless.

>mfw I only made that shitpost because I'm new to programming and wanted to get spoonfed so I tried to see how relevant C really is since you don't really see it in meme development but now you have answered my question and given me the ability to ask the right questions so that I know more about the topic and now understand C's place in the world better

are you mad that you have been tricked into helping another human being

As I have it C was a shitshow from the start.

However is basically correct. C fits its role better than any other.

Nice b8.
Hotspot is written in C++. Every major browser, and thus every Javascript interpreter, is written in C++. GCC and LLVM are both in C++. Tensorflow is in Python and C++. Hadoop is written in Java. If you're one of the few people working on the Linux kernel then fucking congratulations, but you're not.

Nice cherry picking, mate.

In 20 years Rust will be C, and we'll all be better off for it.

In 2 years Rust will already be forgotten. In 20 years C will still be king.

You literally can't implement any other part of computing except on top of C.

I doubt it. Rust has problems of its own.

You say that like it's a done deal. Once someone makes the gcc equivalent of Rust it's all over for C.

>Once someone makes the gcc equivalent of Rust
What does that even mean? You're just spouting random buzzard.

>rust
>named after a chemical reaction between iron and oxygen when exposed to moisture on forgotten, unmaintained equipment

like pottery

you tell me how they work then smartass

You just shoah'd my heart.

tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

You should have linked this tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ instead of spewing bullshit.

I'm still using C forever

How many Fizzbuzzes have you made?

stayed tuned because I'm about to holodomor your vagina

What's the next operating system going to be written in? Python?

C will always exist. Of course employment in C will go down, since people are moving on with newer things and
more userlevel kind of stuff. But C will always be a background kind of language. OS/kernel dev and all sorts of lowerlevel
stuff will require C knowledge, even though people say C++, a lot of people prefer C over it. Plus the majority of languages
are written in C, when people will need to write custom modules for the language, they'll need C. Big projects such as
webservers and all sorts thats core is written in C - believe me they won't throw it all away and start completely from scratch
in some hipster shit.

Writing efficient good C code seems to be much harder for the new programmer, since their languages are completely
babied and handheld the entire time or on a different limited level.

"Safety nonsense" is a something inherent to low-level programming. Any language that you can do low-level stuff in (which is neccessary as a foundation for higher level languages) is going to be unsafe.

>embedded monkey

You realize everything we do is based on embedded right? including the hardware on the device you're using to read this

>Every major browser

>cherry picking

I had a nice chuckle

I think he's trying to say once someone creates a compiler for Rust that works on Linux/Windows/Mac similar to the universality of C and the GCC compiler we will see a new wave of software written making C obsolete. I disagree but just here to help you understand senpai.

>Rust

C is a systems language nothing more, nothing less.

Unless you want some low level shit it's never a good idea to use it, and since we have so many low level frameworks out there, it doesn't really make sense to devellop in C nowadays.

Don't get me worng, C will always have it's place, but it won't have the importance of the past.

Is obkektive-c for apple approved iThings only?

And what is C++ built on?

Assembly.
It's only compatibe with very old C standards.


Objective-C is a dying art, Applel is going to replace it with Swift over the next decade.

>infoworld.com/article/2920333/mobile-development/swift-vs-objective-c-10-reasons-the-future-favors-swift.html

>Tfw when you think C is actually the base of C++
TOP FUCKING KEK

>systems language

Plebs and pajeets always use this word to describe C but what does it even mean? Just "too complicated"? Every competent programmer knows C by heart.

Such as?

Until somebody writes a fantastic language that can manage to be high level and low level (complete control over memory) at the same time and compile to assembly, C will be 100% relevant you mongoloids.

ok, rustacean

Every non-shit language is self-hosted so fuck off retard.

Rust is snake oil.

Thank god, we might finally be able to move on and start using sane languages that won't cause 5 billion critical security flaws per line of code.

This.

I am a bit skeptical...

Could be just more and more Pajeet and SJW that, let's be honest here, know only shit-tier fucktardery like muh OOP are moving into the code-sphere.

Give a retard a surgeons tools and watch them fuck up the operation.

You just described rust.

The language doesn't cause these flaws. A person does. The person who wrote the code.

We don't need to burn the house down and rebuild it somewhere that might be "safer." All we need is better programmers.

Rust is just the newest meme language. In 20 years there will be (several) new meme languages, and the world will still run on C.

t. retard

I sure hope not. Living in a doomed world where y2k, heartbleed and goto fail are the norm rather than literally being impossible is just plain sad.

how do I find out how big my int can be?
e.g. up to 16 bits or 32, 64?

Think about it. If there's no C, there's no low level cross-platform language that can be a foundation for everything else. Either we still have C, or we're all building our foundations in assembler. Which is worse?

Or we can use rust which does low-level and inline assembly and all that jizz, while also being completely safe, gc-less, and having very high-level constructs built-in.

Rust is nothing like C. It may allow inline assembly, but it's incapable of being a foundation.

Are you retarded or just pretending?

>You don't agree with me so you're obviously just too stupid to understand I'm right
You'll understand these things when you're older.

Not pretending, huh. Sad!

I actually work in the embedded industry. We either use some kind of PLC language like LD, SFC, FBD, ST if safety is a concern or we use C++ or some other homegrown language (often graphical or sequence chart based) that either compiles into C or MACHINE CODE. Managed languages are gaining traction over QT and C++ for the UX.

t. brainlet who can't into kernel

Adafag here. Reminder that we've had a safe secure systems language for literally decades and nobody cares because cowboy coders don't like compilers pointing out their mistakes. You Rustfags can quit memeing now.

>ada
>safe
Either you do manual memory management and get no safety or you use the GC. Not to mention ada doesn't have meaningful high-level constructs, needs a runtime, has garbage syntax, and is named after an idolized nobody. Ada is a meme.

>either you do manual memory management and get no safety
I see you haven't heard of access level restrictions. Or using the stack. Or proof tools. Or programming by contract.
>or you use the GC
Not a thing unless you're compiling for JVM, even though it's allowed by the spec.
>doesn't have meaningful high-level constructs
TOP FUCKING KEK you cannot be serious
>needs a runtime
Or in other words, has a standard library that you can opt not to use if you don't need it.
>has garbage syntax
I see you don't like your code readable. You're gonna have fun when you have to go back and maintain/modify something years down the line.
>Ada is a meme
No user, you are the meme, since you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Adamant retards, everybody!

Wait, you guys think the C++ compilers were written by hand in asm?
Instead of written in C, compiled, and then the asm optimized where needed for each cpu arch?

You can't be swimming in that much nile

These interpreter kids don't know what assembly means

C++ is made by adding to C. It adds on classes, templates, public/private, new/delete, and that kind of thing. If the lower C layer was not there, it could not simply add it to assembly.

what's an easy yet challenging C project to do for a begginner ?

don't lie codemonkey, the low level stuff is done in C

fizzbuzz

it's not challenging

Not at all unless you work on some legacy system that had its EOL a decade ago and whatever you are doing is more or less a way to squeeze a few more dollahs out of retarded customers. There are different levels of embedded systems too.

Most of the time people think an embedded system is merely a HMI. And in the HMI case the chances are pretty fucking great it's running some kind of Windows embedded flavor. If it is then Pajeet have most likely been contracted to do most of the code and he will have done it in C#.

As for "embedded" stuff close to hardware like intelligent sensors then they certainly aren't using vanilla C to program the microcontrollers. THey are either using a simplified dialect of C that denies the use of dynamic memory and pointers or a simple homemade language the microcontroller manufacturer made.

Personally I used C++ when I wrote the base code for a canopen slave (pressure sensor).

I think you misunderstand my post...
Someone said C++ is built on C, which someone else responded by saying 'no it's assembly'. This is in context to the compiler (i hope??)

For the actual language itself, well yea, it's C based with more stuff. It's even called C+=1.
I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think C++ is somehow it's own unique language.

Do you want to push Ada? Spread it on Tumblr, not even memeing.

I don't know what hipster industry you work in, but PLC?? homemade languages?
Wtf are you talking about.

You need to run something on a uC? 99% of it is done in C/C++. If you're writting something else, then it's running on top of RTOS written in C

Also sensors usually use ASICs, there are rarely any sensors that are complicated enough to need more than that, unless your sensor and controller/ECU is packaged together

> I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think C++ is somehow it's own unique language.

It became one with the advent of VLAs in C.

They are now two separate, largely incompatible languages.

LLVM demonstrates C++ is now independently self-hosting.

Today, we don't need C to write a C++ compiler, though you can do this if you want.

tep kok

Ugh fucking VLA. These don't exist for me. But it's true, with C99 and after.
Even GCC is now written and compiled with C++

But I don't think that means these two languages don't share enough to be seen as related. And when I said "own unique language" I didn't mean it in the sense that the code is compatible. I meant C++ did just spawn from no where

Also when looking at it's ability to be a low end language, C++ can do it just as well

>I don't know what hipster industry you work in, but PLC?? homemade languages?
Most companies I worked at even rolled their own RTOS faggot.
>Wtf are you talking about.
I'm talking about 30 years experience (well more like what it looks like right now) with software developing in defense, automotive and rolling stock industry.
>You need to run something on a uC? 99% of it is done in C/C++. If you're writting something else, then it's running on top of RTOS written in C
Are you seriously categorising running something on top of a microcontroller as an embedded system? And no if you want something more "serious" like programming the transmission in a wheel loader (running a home made RTOS) you are drawing state machines in a diagrams in an inhouse program that generates machine code.

And if you are doing more serious shit like the train control system in a train with a few thousand passengers you will code in structured text, sequential function chart and function block diagram. You are dealing with SIL2 and above classed software that requires to be run on special SIL2 and above classed hardware. You typically combine this with old school relay logic to achieve a SIL4 classed train.

And the reason you don't do this in C or C++ is that the time to review the code would be so immense and I don't think you could come up with any good motivation to satisfy the safety auditor why you didn't follow IEC 61131-3.

>Also sensors usually use ASICs, there are rarely any sensors that are complicated enough to need more than that, unless your sensor and controller/ECU is packaged together
That depends on application. Industrial network sensors not connected to a PLC through an analogue channel are expected to be able to work as a client communicating with a server over some fieldbus.

Why aren't people just using Lisp for embedded programming? You can disassemble it to assembly and then autistically poke around all you want.

enjoy your stack overflows

haha oh wow I've never seen C friends so mad about the fact their language has virtually no bearing on today's software industry.

I'll just be over here raking in six figures with a retard's grasp of PHP and a clear complexion ;)

When you said homemade languages, I thought meant they made up some language. Not writing their own low end/RTOS

Yes, I'm categorizing anything running on it's own piece of specialized hardware as embedded.
I definitely understand in the last 5-10 years, everything has moved from handwritten code to statemachines. The old way just wasn't safe enough like you said.

But those statemachines all just translate into C, then are compiled.
I could be wrong, but I don't think they go straight from model -> asm
There might be some minor non-standard model solutions, but I bet internally there is a step that goes from their state diagrams -> C/C++ -> asm

I thought you were some pleb. Sorry about that.
I'm only about 10 years into the automotive industry

>When you said homemade languages, I thought meant they made up some language. Not writing their own low end/RTOS
Actually both. They also roll their own languages because they recognized C was dangerous a few decades ago. Not like their own shit is foolproof but it's better and more importantly you can hire cheap devs.

>tfw coding test cell software for engines in C#
It's OK because we have PLCs that will step in before things gets dangerous. Although if that happens you are going to have a very damaged engine.

>I definitely understand in the last 5-10 years, everything has moved from handwritten code to statemachines. The old way just wasn't safe enough like you said.
This move is thanks to international standards being adopted in EU. No management, programmer, tester or software lead etc wants to go to jail just because you didn't follow a standard and process. Proven in use doesn't really fly that well nowadays.

Still many companies recognized a while ago that C brings a lot of undesirable properties in places where a bug due to poor coding can result in loss of hardware and or lives. So they went with their own C dialects.

>But those statemachines all just translate into C, then are compiled.
Both actually. Compiling into C is very popular way to do it because they already have the toolchains. There is just a slight problem no safety assessor haven't found out yet. Is your code the graphical code or is it the generated C code? If the answer is the C code and people die due to a software bug you will not be able to blame some process. People are going to jail involved in the software development.

>Still many companies recognized a while ago that C brings a lot of undesirable properties in places where a bug due to poor coding can result in loss of hardware and or lives.
That just means programmers are responsible for being god.

During the 90s up to the IT crash you could get hired as a software dev by a solicitor on the street if you just said you had used a computer. There were so much money being thrown around it was a very good time to be an IT consultant. The hourly costs for a consultant were on average 20 times higher than today. It was crazy. You went on hunting trips with your consultant company hunting exotic animals from a helicopter on paid time.

really? their OWN language?
Not just C with strict rules? That seems like a ton of effort for very little gain.

I don't really see the issue. Any CS student will some time during his education be tasked to design his own simple programming language that will compile into either C code, some intermediate human readable code or asm. Or is this not something taught in basic education anymore?