Is America behind the times?

Contactless is rolling out all over Europe, and America still hasn't fully adopted chip&pin yet

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theregister.co.uk/2010/08/02/long_range_rfid/
web.archive.org/web/20080208051858/http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2005/07/_defcon_rfid_wo.html?
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I've been to the states a few times in the last couple of years and they still use swipe & sign in most places (plus tip). Embarrassing.

>same thread every day

When I was on vacation in the Netherlands it was really nice how you can pay almost everything with credit card

People would probably laugh at you here in Germany if you tried to pay the baker with debit card

I don't have a credit card to try contactless though and I haven't found a bank that offers contactless Maestro or something like that

>plus tip
Please tell me you're meme-ing

Daily reminder contactless was debuted in America nearly 2 decades ago.

We've been using contactless for years in Canada

tipping is commonplace in america
not that it's required. just suggested

A lot of people never tip. It's definitely going away.

Tap is everywhere in Canada, can't imagine having to insert chip and input pin for small purchases ever again.

Actually it's usually just swipe and maybe pin if you choose debit. Very few places make me sign. Swiping is so much quicker than the chip readers, they're complete garbage. I suppose contactless is useful but it doesn't save very much time.

France here, I actually pay my 1€ bread with my NFC credit card every morning.

Sure glad I get to save those extra milliseconds while leaving myself vulnerable to anyone with a $5 card reader and Android phone the ability to clone my credit card

>Just swipe

Surely card fraud is fucking rife over there then?

I've just been to Hamburg from Denmark. Why do you guys only take your own retarded debit card system that literally works nowhere else?
That's just as autistic as Americans still paying for shit with checks

We had contactless years ago, thanks to the media, people are afraid some leet haxor is going to steal their shit.
Now people request their cards without chips or wireless.

Alright, I'll give you Yuros a history.

Credit cards were born in the US. At the time, fraud was a lot harder.

>enter the nineties
Eastern Europe loved to pray on America, but you didn't have the internet to easily use/transport stolen credit card numbers to the same degree. Europe adopts chip cards while the US remains happy with magswipes.

>early 2000s
Fraud starts to grow, but the rates of it are far lower than Europe, and the fees per swipe are far higher in the US than in Europe (paid by the retailer to the issuing bank).
Meanwhile, the US banks issue contactless cards, but halfass it by putting the same name, account number, and a static card verification value on the chip. The end result is that you can read a card once wirelessly and repeat it forever. News organizations embarass the credit card companies and trust in wireless credit card chips is destroyed.

>late 2000s/early 2010s
Fraud grows and card cloning becomes a massive problem. Everyone has to set a liability mandate to switch to chip.

>2014
Apple Pay makes contactless cool again, blah unique value blah PIN/fingerprint/blah. Mastercard, Visa set limits but most banks assume americans are too retarded/lazy for PIN so they set a chip deadline (for liability) of October 2015 for most retailers/transactions.

>2015
Merchants buy readers with chip/NFC and find out, oh shit, we actually have to upgrade our register software for this? Cue disappointment. Shortage of this, shortage of chips for cards, processing times are insane, etc.... retailers must pick and choose on continuing card acceptance or disabling cards ( a non option).

Not really any more than anywhere else, but I still rather the chip. If only because it requires no real input from me.

Not really? When somebody loses their credit card they usually call and cancel as soon as they find out.

Dear lord Americans are dumb and lazy, we've had this shit figured out in Canada for almost 2 decades now

Example:

here
So where are we now?
>most big box stores
Have switched to chip, with shitty response times (13+ seconds to complete transaction). Many have disabled or don't really care about NFC as the chip card conversion is first and foremost.

>restaurants/mom and pop shops
Fraud that they have to pay for is usually minimal versus the cost of upgrading to EMV compliant equipment and software.

>chip and pin
I have two cards that are chip and pin first and neither has the best benefits. As long as US banks remain willing to pay for fraud, consumers have little reason to care.

>contactless
A fucking meme at this point, it works barely anywhere. I have a chip enabled card and it fails at most terminals. Good as a try for a last resort. American consumers largely don't trust it due to the previously mentioned cheap banks.

In the US the signature is proof that you legally agree to the cardholder agreement. Fraud, they prosecute you or eat the cost; real and they ram your ass.

Germany is weird with card acceptance, they like cash.

Yeah but with fraud the card is stolen but the original is still there, the original card user doesn't find out until they get a fuck huge back statement
And if the faudster is smart and only makes small transactions with a large number of cards it would be a while before anyone notices

>We had contactless years ago, thanks to the media, people are afraid some leet haxor is going to steal their shit.
>Now people request their cards without chips or wireless.


Which is retarded considering getting your contactless card cloned/stolen is unlikely as fuck unless some new flaw is found in the security.

Seems pretty insecure.

>shitty response times (13+ seconds to complete transaction
Do you guys use dail-up everywhere?

>That's just as autistic as Americans still paying for shit with checks
Oh look it's this meme again.

More people, more businesses
More cards more readers

It's expensive and takes time to replace them all.
Nobody likes the chip readers because we have been using swipes for a very long time.
Shit works, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

>>Which is retarded considering getting your contactless card cloned/stolen is unlikely as fuck unless some new flaw is found in the security.

That's my point, the media in the US is one of the best at killing something.

Canada didn't have this shit figured out for "almost two decades", EMV conversion happened in the late 2000s/early 2010s for acceptance. It was equally painful, some issuers switched earlier. Canadians just find it funnier to point and laugh at the other side.

Once your point of sale is used to a dynamic challenge/response from EMV cards, good (secure) contactless is not a stretch at all. That's how Canada has contactless now.

I think you meant to quote someone else, faggot.

moat places where the wait staff is paid less than minimum wage (earn by tips), it is noted to "please tip" or even mandate it for large groups. i don't eat at the second type

I just slide my card

I've never seen a place that mandates tipping, but if I did I'd walk out.

>A fucking meme at this point, it works barely anywhere. I have a chip enabled card and it fails at most terminals. Good as a try for a last resort. American consumers largely don't trust it due to the previously mentioned cheap banks.
The states are so backwards they cant even accept NFC cards everywhere? Thats just stupid considering its been around so long I have had to get a new card already.

>equally painful
Nah, I remember paying for parking using NFC in fucking highschool

It has been getting better since the EU (lol) capped the credit card fees. Now more shops (even Aldi) accept credit card because now they're cheaper than cash.

Also the terminal times have vastly improved. At Aldi it barely takes 5 seconds to pay with EC card or credit card anymore.

At Edeka it takes half an eternity still... Insert card... wait 10 seconds... enter pin... wait 10 seconds... cashier prints 5 different receipts for your €4 purchase... another 10 seconds
It's understandable most people still use cash

I suppose card cloning just isn't that popular then, what would adding a signature do anyway? It's not like it goes to a server that cross references all of your previous signatures and checks for a visual match.

>Canada didn't have this shit figured out for "almost two decades"
Man I am in my 30s now and I remember paying for shit with NFC in the school cafeteria. Unless you live in the middle of fucking nowhere its literally been used for decades.

>year of our lord 2016
>still using cheques

Holy kekeroni

In the US it legally binds you to the agreement of the issuer including responsibility for charges. Let's go through the hypotheticals
>the store doesn't have cameras and can't reasonably prove it was you
The store eats the loss for being fucking stupid
>the store has cameras and can reasonably prove it was someone ELSE, and you dispute the charge
Signing the receipt = agreement with cardholder agreement = bank can fuck 'em
>the store has cameras and can reasonably prove it was YOU
Congrats, bank will now fuck you for violating the cardholder agreement as an example.

I paid for popcorn in 2004 at my Regal theater with a Chase debit card and before that I did RFID payment at my school grocery store in the nineties. Don't conflate wireless payments with secure or good.

Hell, I think E-Zpass - one of the first electronic toll collection systems - started in summer of 1993 for RFID payment of tolls in New York.

>Don't conflate wireless payments with secure or good.
So you're saying it isnt secure or good? Its the best system for convince and security you can use today, what the fuck are you talking about?

>2016
>still getting your information from other euros on Sup Forums

Except it didn't exist until the late 90s in America, so you definitely didn't have it for decades.

>So you're saying it isnt secure or good?
Depends entirely on the implementation. Modern implementations with NFC on most smartphonse and dynamic CVV3 responses on the few cards in the US that have them are largely secure. Wireless payments are not inherently secure withotu proper protections/fraud detection, you can put anything over the air.

It is secure you tard, it only exchanges information that it has to and double checks it with the bank's servers

>but dem coons steelin' card with wireless walk-bys
The range is so short that you literally have to rub someone's ass to scan the card, and the RFID chips only have limited amounts of information on them

in the uk contactless has been standard for 4 years or so. For the last couple of years it's been rare for a shop not to have it. I know that's not the case in America but are they really only just rolling it out in Europe?

>be Sup Forums
>suspect botnet everywhere
>suspect jewish conspiracy everywhere
>argue about which way of voluntarily leaving permanent electronic trace of your purchases is the most convenient

It is NOT RFID.

>autism

theregister.co.uk/2010/08/02/long_range_rfid/
>When he's not listening in to GSM phone calls, Chris Paget has been busy seeing at what distance an RFID tag can be read, managing a respectable 217 feet.

web.archive.org/web/20080208051858/http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2005/07/_defcon_rfid_wo.html?
>The fellows from Flexilis went for a world record attempt on reading RFID tags from a distance. The end result was a bit over 69 feet on top of the roof of DEFCON

RFID range depends on the power of the reader and ability to filter the signal, without dynamic responses (relatively new) they've been a meme technology dependent on a lack of attempts.

Many places in Ireland have it

German here. I don't understand why use credit cards. It seems so unsafe.

hans schnitzel SAP seimens

What's the deal with you weirdos?

North America are retards!

The reason Europe adopted chip & pin so much more quickly than the US is that credit card fraud used to be a lot more common in in Europe. Back in around 2000 or so the UK had something like 10 times the fraud rate the US did.

Where I work the chip cards are a pain in the ass for customers, but it isn't the pos terminal itself at fault. The problem lies with each one being throttled to dial up speeds so we have enough extra bandwidth for customers to get free WiFi and watch youtube while they shop.

Holy shit how much fucking bandwidth could a CC transaction possibly use

ahmed, pls.

I prefer cash or card.
Quicker than scanning or touching whatever shit that will fuck up or not work half the time anyway.

So cut that out.

Everyone i know who has been to the states and used cards has suffered fraud this way.

The uk only allows small transactions via contactless payments but we are a simple nation of Luddites

>moat places where the wait staff is paid less than minimum wage
it's mandated by law that the establishment must pay them minimum wage if there aren't enough tips to boost them up to that threshold.
stop spreading misinformation

This.

I had no idea the USA didn't use debit cards and shit.

I haven't carried cash in over a decade

Canada can confirm, tap is very common

My workplace (a computer repair shop) uses internet for card transactions and it still takes roughly 8-10 seconds to authorize a chip transaction.
Swipes and e-checks take 2-3 seconds. We accept NFC but I have never seen anyone attempt to use it.

fuck off louis

>haven't carried cash in over a decade

Good goy.

>Oh no. Let me cower in fear over the potential misuse of my credit card

Eurofags need something to boast about when their economy and national security is always at risk

Reminder if your country doesn't have contactless card readers it's literally a third world country

>same thread every day.

>it seems so unsafe
I didn't know Germans were living in a 1960s time bubble.

See picture.

I don't buy into the NFC or Chip/Pin and others. I've actually been moving more and more back to cash. Keeps the mind sharp at times with change too. Physically watching the money leave my hand and if you have children they also learn a bit (if they pay attention).

I really hope we can skip chip+pin, which is an order of magnitude more awkward than swipe, and go straight to contactless.

Having to let go of my card and keep my wallet out for so long for chip & pin is terrible.

US stopped using contact less because it's so easy to steal info with it

First time hearing about contactless probably because im third worldish.
how does it work? I keep reading you dont have to use PIN, isnt that less secure?

You can only charge up to $20 per purchase and usually limited to around $50 per day.

And every bank has fraud protection so boo hoo, someone steals $20 to buy hotdogs and macaroni from your stolen card, you call the bank and you got your $20 back.

Why is USA so backwards? In Canada, you don't need to pay for any charges on your credit card that you didn't authorize as long as you report it within a certain amount of days of receiving your statement. Granted there's some work involved to prove its fraud but you're off the hook.

>I had no idea the USA didn't use debit cards and shit.
The fuck does this even mean? You think bank accounts don't exist in America, or what? European ignorance is truly astounding.

>In Canada, you don't need to pay for any charges on your credit card that you didn't authorize as long as you report it within a certain amount of days of receiving your statement
WOW AMAZING! Your banks works like literally every bank in the world. You win a gold star for being in the most special country!

>In Canada, you don't need to pay for any charges on your credit card that you didn't authorize as long as you report it within a certain amount of days of receiving your statement
Wow, you just described the same exact system credit card companies use in America.

Contactless meaning you tap a card on a reader? Never seen that before, pretty neat.

Yea. If you're American you'll definitely remember SpeedPass or the Visa PayPass, unless you're 12.

American businesses don't like upgrading to newer payment methods because:

>A) It costs money.
>B) Customers are stupid and don't even know of its existence.

You know how many people get surprised by the underside chip thing? All of them.

You know how many people actually use wireless RFID like Apple Pay? Maybe a dozen people a year.

>You know how many people actually use wireless RFID like Apple Pay? Maybe a dozen people a year.
Contactless, in particular, Apple Pay, has 12 million users. Add up the rest and it's a significant amount of the population.

so basically this payment method doesn't serve any real purpose other than avoiding fat and lazy americans to type their code on a terminal and for mr. cohen to accelerate the flow of clients at his store.

What was that? They didn't teach you English very well down at that third world school you have there.

>Canada
>calling others dumb and lazy

Didn't you guys elect a drama teacher simply because he said he would legalize weed? Oh and he didn't because "they won't let me!"

Oh, and enjoy your shit currency. Turns out your investing everything into oil strategy didn't turn out so well.

yet ironically apple and android pay are widely accepted across america. Here in Canada apple pay has just come out a couple months ago.... yet we've had tap for years....

>12 million users
>310 million people in the country
>less than 1% of consumers
It's not worth the $3000 we would spend on upgrading
t. Department store bean counter

Called "gratuity"

I don't understand why people what use debit cards (poorfags) act like they're somehow superior to people that use credit cards. None of my credit cards have annual fees and I never carry a balance so I never pay interest.

Just went to Canada recently and put almost every single charge on my Amex.

>more unsafe than pin and chip
>"fix it" by putting limits on amount that can be stolen
>instead of designing a credit card that isn't fucking retarded

no they didn't. we do not really care about the anglo-saxon protestant world around here, it overalls feels too faggy tbqh (a bit like you do ;D)

>using a credit card that features contactless payment
>not using Apple Pay
Enjoy having to buy an RFID blocking wallet and dealing with your info being stolen.

You are bad at math, you call yourself a bean counter? Must be why you can't spend 3k on a P-O-S system.

>ameritards getting upset at being called out on their country's retarded cc laws

Just admit your country is shit. We all know it already.

>CC
>laws
Why are Euros so ignorant, yet so self righteous?

Mind your own fucking business.

Paper money, as shitty as it is, still means a certain degree of freedom. With debit cards you don't have that and everything you do is tracked.

Next step are mandatory RFID implants (aka mark of the beast) to even be able to continue living in the civilized world and enjoying its most basic services. It is the jewish masterplan, all written down in the protocols