Is Java shit or is it just a contrarian meme?

Is Java shit or is it just a contrarian meme?

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stackoverflow.com/questions/2163411/is-java-really-slow
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Anybody who has had to work with Java for any extended period of time will assure you it's shit.

This. I used it for a couple of projects in university years ago, and in my spare time more recently. It's turbo shit all the time.

Can you give more reasoning?

I know the VM and all hinders the performance, but definitely not enough in anyway to be noticeable for 99% of the programming I do.

Not a fan of java, just want to hear some reasons.

I actually like working with it since java 8. Frameworks like spring / spring boot are powerful and convenient as fuck, the jvm is decently fast and stable, maven is awesome for dependency management, junit, hamcrest and mockito make testing a breeze...

I use Java for work btw, financial sector

I'm The performance was surprisingly good and I never had any complaints about that. I just felt like I was drowning in OOP. The AbstractWidgetGeneratorFactoryBean meme is real.

I seriously can't tell if OOP is really shit or a necessity.

I'm just trying to learn Java for my job interview because I'm too scared to use python which I have much more experience in.

>I'm just trying to learn Java for my job interview

That's going to go well.

Nah it's really not that bad actually.
Java just feels rigid, syntax is fucking weird too sometimes.

Reminds me how forgiving and flexible python is. Java is like wearing a space suit and trying to do normal shit.

This, I feel Java has improved a lot since the 1.4 days, but the damage is done and all the cool kids now program in other languages.

The problem of Java is that it's only really suitable for medium sized project that don't care too much for the performance.
For small tasks that are not running 24/7 you're better off with a scripting language, having to use OOP only slows you down.
On the other hand for large projects you need something that can be optimized and can go low level.
Java can do a bit of each but neither particularly good.

>I'm too scared to use the programming language that I know best and have the most experience with
Wait, what

If you knew the company you might understand why.
I could use python but I don't want to risk it, especially after reading some reviews about how they weren't so happy with the interviewee using python.

then why are you applying?
you risk failure either way

there is no good reason to hate Java, the language is very well written. They're just being contrarian cunts

Well, the way HR usually works, they are looking for a developer with X years of experience. The experience you have with the other languages might be a plus but if you don't have what they are mainly looking for, it's not gonna save you.

What do I have to lose?
The pay is crazy, i'm studying like a horse.
I even requested for an extension before I fly over, those cucks better give it to me.

Java is really not that hard to pick up after messing around a bit with C++. Just some memorization and styling mostly. Programming is really just a way of thinking and the syntax/language is the medium through which it's done. At least until you specialize or have real constraints.

Coding/syntax is not the issue for me. The design behind what to do is the bottleneck for me now.

HR has no idea what they are doing.
My fizzbuzz code is more complicated and would do a better job at hiring.

Any good programmer will pick up a decent language fast.
You can easily bullshit about years in X language unless you're Pajeet/or shit.

Not applying means failure, NEET. Applying gets you the job.

how will HR know that unless they program themselves? most of em are clueless sluts that were hired to be prostitutes for the boss

he doesn't have to apply to a job he has no experience in
i have an internship lined up you cuck

>HR has no idea what they are doing.
This is true. But most of the times you still need to get through them before you can show your programming skills to somebody who will judge them objectively.

>Java
>XP
Why do you think pajeets are flooding the market

what the fuck are you on about?
stop memeing faggot

user I have 4 internships.

Anyone decent in CS has multiple internships, companies get frustrated when half the candidates can't do fizzbuzz. It's not hard.

people still use XP? what the fuck

>I know the VM and all hinders the performance
that's not an issue, java is quite fast.

>I know the VM and all hinders the performance
This used to be a problem but not so much anymore, read the top answer here stackoverflow.com/questions/2163411/is-java-really-slow
>is java shit?
it forces you to do things certain ways, but it does this to protect your program from errors. In my opinion this makes it good, especially for beginners.
>Is OOP shit?
It makes it easier to follow the logic of large programs, its not hard to do what you need to do using OOP as long as you understand the basic concepts.

Didn't know Oracle made such big improvements in the speed, i'm impressed.

I still think Python takes a shit on Java, for 95% of programming. Java is just too cold in feeling.

Is a very good language for buissness
bytecode compilation allows for multiplatform comptability and making code propriatary at the same time.
Its easy and fast to code.

Apart from these points its still a bloated language that tends to produce bad bloated code due to beeing only oop.
Still slower In performance than compilable languages
Slower to code in than interpreted languages
Will never produce elegant pleasant code

a little of both

>Will never produce elegant pleasant code
meme buzzwords

>very well written
It's not, is the thing. It's very consistent, sure, but it's a garbled fucking mess 99% of the time because it evolved alongside "enterprise" coding, so there are inefficient practices strung around fucking everywhere and it's generally ten paragraphs of long variable names and method calls to get anything fucking done

Reading a thread like this just confirms that 99% of people on this board are hobbyists and know jack shit about anything related to the industry. If any professionals are here please tell me why large entreprise projects shouldnt use java/ee. If you are going to mention spring, dont reply

Show me code where another language can get the same thing done using significantly fewer lines than java, this simply is not true.

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samefag

H A D O O P

Nope, but thanks for playing

inspect element

I'm on a phone using clover you fucking turbo mong

Java is a nice predictable language. Any retard can write decent code in it. That's its main strong point.
>Spring
>Maven
Pajeet detected. Spring is a framework that turns compile time errors into runtime errors and converts xml into stack traces.
Maven is just fucking bad when better choices like Gradle and Ivy exist. I've been extremely impressed by Ivy (other than it's sometimes terrible performance) and I consider it the best package manager I've ever used.

Simulated phone browser

...

Is there a bug with Java causing it to fuck up swf files, or do swf files just not play in browsers anymore?

The language is structured in such a ways that inevitably leads to the Turtles-all-the-way-down syndrome, where you take a class and try to abstract each and every part of it, making the code verbose and a nightmare to mantain.

Because primitive types are not classes, the language uses wrapper classes to represent their instances as objects, but this leads to conceptual schizophrenia, for example:
>int[] is not equal to Integer[], but they can contain the same kind of values

>swf
>Java

>The problem of Java is that it's only really suitable for medium sized project that don't care too much for the performance.

You do know that the vast majority of AWS other than the actual hardware virt is in Java right?

Use Java configurations instead of XML. It's way better and you keep the compile errors.

anyone that works with java is a pajeet through and through

Personally, I do. But my fucking colleagues feel like XML is so "expressive". They don't even use SPEL.
Fuck them

depends on the browser, since it's Flash

Why?

It's shit because these days Python and Scala do everything Java does, but better

Also strict OOP is a dying meme

oh man you'd fucking hate C languages

C# does it better.

>Don't. Listen. to. Sup Forums. EVER.

Just follow that mantra and you'll actually get a job, and not be a NEET anymore!

I don't really think its Java that people hate OP. Its Spring and JavaEE. Those overly complicated arse biscuit frameworks are what spawned the AbstractProxyFactorySingletonBeanFactoryObject crap.

Java on its own is a nice language. C# is even better.

Not an argument.

The problem is that almost the entire Java community uses Spring and JavaEE garbage or worse so if you're working with Java you're more than likely building off these horrible monstrosities.

Google is one of the only major player that uses Java and actively avoids Spring and JavaEE trash.

It's an extremely verbose language that's annoying to program in and difficult to optimize, because everything is shoved on the heap, and you can only ever store pointers to objects, rather than the objects themselves. This really fucks with the cache unless you only ever use primitives for everything.

.swf = Shock Wave Flash

Java in the browser has been rather dead for a while. Flash is mostly dead, with the exception of a number of porn sites and game sites.

This hits the nail on the head.
Combined with "treat the programmer with kid gloves" the whole thing turns into a horrible ENTERPRISE mess.

Java == Easy to code, programmers are cheap
Java code quality == QUALITY

My tech school forced java and visual basic on us. Was fucking horrid. One of our other lecturers taught us pascal and php. Made a pascal program that interacts with a PHP web server which was pretty fucking neato.

>.NET

...

Pajeet here can confirm, even I was surprised when I went for my internship

Yet another Java thread?

The problem with Java is not that it's shit. If it really was shit, it wouldn't be the most common language of programming.

The real problem is Java is mediocre. It's syntax is verbose and stupid, but not that bad that you couldn't use it. It's no fun to use, but it's not that bad that a programmer can resist the job opporunities.

On the other hand, the industry has pushed way to much money into Java. They can't abandon it (even if they would), because the costs would be incredibly high. Not only that the hyper-perfomance-tuning of the JVM over the last two decades did probably cost a metric shitton of money (it's an amazing piece of technique, no doubt about that). But the more important part is the legacy code.


Java has become the "lingua franca" of programming a long time ago, and we've long reached the point of no return. Give me a language of your choice (Python, C++, Scala, F#, Ruby, Go... you name it) and then go to a bigger programmer Job portal and search for "Java + [language of your choice]".

Java is fucking everywhere and some basic Java skills aren't even optional nowadays.

Nevertheless I highly advise you to only know learn the basics (I/O, classes, errors, threads, SWING, Java Collections Framework) and then avoid Java whene ever it's possible. Git gud in C#, C++, Go or Python and find a Job with them, because Java Jobs are really a fucking pain in the ass, flowcharts everywhere, "coding by numbers".. as someone one said, even retards can code in Java. Try to get something better and consider Java as "fallback scenario" if you fuck up getting a better job.

>pic related

> Ivy as package manager
You have no idea what you are talking about

Have you worked at/for Google? Would you like to elaborate?
Or perhaps you are just pulling that out of your ass like all the other script kiddies in this thread?

I mean, try to do half the shit you specifcially picked java to do in C. Enjoy.

If you manage this herculean task- then change it to include an extra property or otherwise change it. How easy was that?

And then do the same task in a less retarded language and see how your lines of code shrink.

Say what you want, refactoring in Java is no fun.

SWING is important? Why? I saw it only briefly while working with databases. I preferred JPA.

Same goes for Java Collections Framework. I haven't even heard of the latter.

A less-retarded OOPL? That's not the point though.

>On the other hand for large projects you need something that can be optimized and can go low level.
large projects are usually high level logic, so you're better off with Java

Knowing at least basics of Java is pretty much mandatory nowadays 2bh

>SWING is important? Why?

It's not that important. But you it's "a nice to have" since you can learn it fast and whenever you want some kind graphical output or GUI (without using a web interface) it's usefull. Oldie but goldie.

It has nothing to do with databases, though.


>Same goes for Java Collections Framework.

That's the umbrella term for the abstract data structures API in Java, i.e. ArrayList, SortedMap, HashMap, TreeMap, TreeSet, Queue...

It's not that difficult to learn them (a lot of stuff is repeating itself), but it's important that you clearly know when to use which. You only learn this by using them a couple of times.

pic related is only a small overview, there's more to know.

>xml

Every time I've looked at Java, I've come across some weird XML hell. That bullshit was enough to put me off the language.

It runs pretty much every point of sale system in Australia.

I thought he meant experience as in XP
lol?

y are u like dis

phpfag here, how're we doin

back to the designated shitting street you go

exCUSE mE donT tLKA to me like THaT im GonnA Hack NASa using cURL AND UR GONNA BE soRRY KID PHP IS LIFE

What do you think Java is?

Good luck maintaining large projects with the rigidity.
C/ C++'s syntax is time-tested and will survive. Meme """"""""""""""languages""""""""""" like python will never rise above NEET-tier.

*without

There are NO other better languages than Java for keeping all your code in one spot, it's the easiest way to develop.

Do I bring up Minecraft anyone?
What about Oracle?

All these were made with the masterpiece of Java.

>Have you worked at/for Google?

Yes. Spring and JavaEE are both banned at Google. There's an extreme priority on keeping the code simple and succinct. Things like reflection, byte code manipulation and runtime scoped annotations are highly frowned upon in almost all situations.

>lying on the internet

you're a dumb fucker.

Java is amazing for industrial code writing.

It has really great documentation, makes working with other people and frameworks really easy, exception and garbage handling is really convenient and it's generally a really nice language to write in.
The proof is "muh trillion devices".

However java isn't a nice and convenient scripting/prototyping/scientific/data interpretation language.

It's not interpreted, it's not made to handle high-level data structures easily, it's strongly typed etc.

Python, Matlab etc will handle data processing for scientists/engineers.

Java is the best for writing big and complex applications, frameworks, reusable code etc.

>calls me a dumb fucker
>publicly advocates the use of java

>Posts this from a device that runs Java to a device that runs Java.

ebin

>implying my raspberry pi runs java

Ankit what are you doing here?

Hello Pajeet, are you lost? This is an imageboard, not a place to spit out retarded thinking like on Reddit. If your life feels unnecessary, do not panic. Killing yourself might solve all your problems. Nevertheless, if you're looking to avoid death, please at least do not spread your cancerous DNA by having sexual intercourses with human beings of the opposite gender. Thank you for reading through.