When are 4k blu-rays gonna get cracked?

When are 4k blu-rays gonna get cracked?

Other urls found in this thread:

guru3d.com/news-story/powerdvd-and-hitachi-lg-will-offer-first-ultra-hd-blu-ray-playback-for-pc.html
storagenewsletter.com/rubriques/hard-disk-drives/incredible-record-of-100tb-into-3-5-inch-hdd-with-hamrhelium/
extratorrent.cc/search/?search=4k&s_cat=&pp=&srt=size&order=desc
ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6317159/?reload=true
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Likely never, or at least not anytime soon.

From my understand they aren't releasing the keys to anyone but hardware manufacturers for UHD bluray players.

And further, i've seen some talk that if there is every normal PC support added it will require a PC with a TPM 2.0 module for storing the encryption keys in a protected environment.

I don't know anything about blu-ray disks. Is there some sort of proprietary encryption going on with the blue-ray players that makes it impossible to use with regular PC disk readers?

I'm pretty sure some PC disc drives can read blu-ray, but are 4k disks different?

How did movies like The Martian be able to be torrented in 4k? Did someone just record the output of a Blu-Ray player and strip the HDCP?

you use a UHD capture card which can strip the HDCP.

Not as good quality as a real remux though.

Who cares? Only Boomers collect discs. If you can't download or stream it, GenX and Millenials won't buy it. The cycle of upscaling and reselling the same content ends with 4K.

Are you going to buy a player and store discs? Me either.

4k disks have AACS 2.0

I have a bluray writer in my desktop, it is even a BR-XL writer so it can read and write the larger 100GB+ BR-XL discs.

It can physically read a UHD bluray, but there is no playback software available, so the computer can't do anything with it, all the data is encrypted so you can't rencode it and play it back on anything either.

So until someone cracks AACS 2.0 (unlikely because of the strict security measures being taken regarding the key), you're basically shit out of luck unless you buy a standalone UHD bluray player from LG, samsung, etc.

Damn, that's some bullshit, especially considering they're like $100 or more from what I saw online.

We need the ability to rip this content from the source to be able to download it in the form of 4K. That is, if you want to enjoy it in a non-retarded way.

Either they'll force you to stream it which'll be "4K" but look like absolute shit, or they'll allow you to download it and watch through some sort of proprietary program that you'll be at the mercy of-- along with being at the mercy of wherever you acquired a 'license' to watch said content.

The only time I currently torrent is when people don't make their content available for me on DVD or Blu-ray. For example (feel free to hate), there are no Steven Universe Blu-rays at present. The first season was released, and then never again. The demand is there for it, people are always asking about it. It's a simply a fact that Cartoon Network knows there's more money to be made in having people pay 1.99$ per EPISODE for the right to STREAM it on Amazon or through their own special app.

For that you get shit quality, through a shit player, and you MUST have an internet connection. All of that is literally the reason why I'd rather go through the 'work' of ripping a disc myself and then watching that through VLC, MPC-HC, MPV, or you know, literally any player that's not garbage. Sup Forums might like to complain about any one of those depending on their preference, but they're LEAGUES ahead of having to use some program that has the exclusive right to play your locked down media.

I should specify, I say "aren't" despite season 1 being released, because there are a limited amount of them available for purchase, and they're typically sold from third party sellers for anywhere around 80-100$.

>Only Boomers collect discs.
That's the fucking point you dolt. If someone cracks the encryption, we'd be easily able to download bluray rips.

Fuck this thread is depressing. I thought AACS 2.0 would be cracked within a year or so. I didn't realize how serious they were taking BD security this time.

Didn't expect that movies would get harder to crack than gaymen

>4k disks have AACS 2.0
did they learn nothing from last time

well this time I believe there is a network check it runs to verify the key hasn't been tampered with or some shit, as well as storing the key on a TPM 2.0 (can be firmware based, integrated hardware such as laptops or tablets, or discrete hardware for desktops. )
which basically makes a trusted encrypted environment for the keys to be stored in so none of your software can actually see it.

4k is a meme for now
wait 5 more years until buying anything related to 4k

I run a dual 4k monitor setup
One of which is ips
The colours user, the ppi, the clarity.
The future is now

>already have 2880x1800 display resolution
>1080p fits into a tiny box on my screen
>waiting for 8k displays
>1080p blu rays the best quality available that you can actually own (rip into a DRM-free format)
>4k blu rays unlikely to ever be broken
>I'll never get the highest quality available for the movies I love
jesus christ, DRM Free Movie Revolution when
it mostly already happened with music, despite streaming
I just want to own the things I purchase
I don't even care about piracy

Could the encryption be brute forced? Do the keys change for every BD? Could a key generator be reverse engineered that emulates the trusted environment? I mean in the end it always goes trough the software, which can be altered.

every time. every goddamn time there's a new DRM people go "IT CAN'T BE CRACKED!" and then it does.

after 20 years this should be a topic in history class.

BD are the 21st century enigma. Good luck cracking them.

Probably 2017 or 2018? I'm retired and won't be participating this time. HDCP was fun.

They did. But despite all their efforts to harden it up, AACS 2.0 has some new, really stupid mistakes.

In short, yes.

SlyFox had a few legal issues in Antigua and the shell had to move to Belize, as RedFox. That complicated anyone getting paid - and the reversers need to get paid before starting the work because it will require a budget for sufficient lab time to grab the keys from hardware analysis/decapping.

Stupid question, why is it so hard to intercept the signal that goes into tv? I mean the one after decryption
player->DRM->tv-> tv control chip-> tv-panel actual analog output
there is at some point clean signal right?
capture cards do not exactly that? why is it bad then? can't you fine tune it for specific display?

sure, but sometimes it takes a really long time, to the point that it's not even relevant anymore.
some jap consoles from the 90s were just cracked recently, iirc.
many denuvo games are still not cracked.

To clarify my answer:

No you can't brute-force, yes they do, that's not quite how that works but in essence yes you can "blue-pill" it with the right keys and the right anti-white-box techniques, and they aren't trusting any plain software to do it but firmware whose integrity is attested by key chains held in hardware which end in hardware manufacturers' private keys - but just because they're in hardware doesn't make attacks impossible for someone with time and a budget, and there are some stupid mistakes which will make it easier but you may want to wait for them to commit to them before exploiting them.

i'm pretty sure you can capture it, but it won't be a lossless process at the end (once you convert it to the final format).

How possible to capture every single pixel signal from the panel and then reconstruct it into image->digital signal? It it physically possible?
I know it's not viable option, just curious if it's possible or not.

Can computers even play 4K?

Just zoom to fit the screen.

...

Decryption -> decoding -> signal to capture card -> encode -> final product

It's not hard to capture. It just adds an transcoding cycle which degrades quality. Ideal would be just decrypting

You also have to consider that the rest of the ecosystem isn't in a good place for it at the moment.

Much of the Scene grew up and had kids twice over now, there's a bunch of comparative newbies.

As far as couriering goes and the private tracker ecosystem, you're talking about files in the 100GB+ range and HAMR disks are not yet available, let alone inexpensive.

HEVC is good, but barely good enough. AV1 is okay, but really we'll be looking at AV2 and the future work that was experimented on within Daala and so on, for any serious gains beyond that - and, no doubt, significantly increased decode computation required to make significant gains beyond where we are now.

Most importantly, 4K is a stopgap resolution and everyone knows it: 8K with Rec.2020 is the final frontier (and has been since the specs were written, at the same time as 4K).

So why put out all that money, time and effort now and burn exploits which they would have the opportunity to fix, when we can wait for them to widely deploy AACS 2.0 on 8K when it's too late to cancel?

>I'm pretty sure some PC disc drives can read blu-ray, but are 4k disks different?

Yes, the laser is mounted differently and the disks tracks are pitched differently to increase storage from 50GB to 120GB

4K blurays and players physically different than regular ones.

Ah yes, the "future" that all the hip new kids love where my movies and Tv shows are available to me only if there are seeders on the torrent or Netflix felt like renewing the license.

I love paying for shit I don't own and have no control over!

who cares
nothing worth watching is released on such platform anyway

/thread

Aren't they cracked already? There's 4K releases floating around that are 120GB and ~15GB H265/HEVC encodes.

So youre saying I have to buy a bluray player and the bluray discs to be able to watch planet earth 2 in 4k?

4k bluray player*

My boyfriend has like 300+ BR disks. I try to reason with him, but he won't listen.

When 4K Blu-ray software starts existing

>physical media
>always-on DRM
I would be legitimately surprised if 4K blu-ray doesn't turn out to be a financial disaster in the end

They stopped allowing programs to play 4K blu-ray, right?

Basically every time these things get cracked it's because somebody took the software into a disassembler and reverse engineered it

Can't really do that with hardware players

DRM-free revolution is happening for video games as well, thanks to websites like GOG.com making every popular game available DRM-free and proving it's financially viable

>It just adds an transcoding cycle which degrades quality.
How large would a lossless copy of the stream capture be? Upload one of those and rRerelease groups would have a lossless blu-ray reference source to base their releases on, which would be the same as actually decrypting the blu-ray except with extra bandwidth cost in the middle.

He is paying for the stuff you pirate. You should thank him for that.

keks

>So why put out all that money, time and effort now and burn exploits which they would have the opportunity to fix, when we can wait for them to widely deploy AACS 2.0 on 8K when it's too late to cancel?
Yes, why spend 5+ years watching movies instead of waiting for future tech? The world isn't even ready for 4K, far from it. And you want to wait for 8K?! You madman

I'm a videophile

I literally don't care about the content, I just want to see 4K content. Bonus points for 60 Hz, that shit is so sexy

Yes, thank the stupid g- I mean valued customer for supporting some hollywood executive's coke habit and AAA movie star's toenail cutting crew

Im currently ripping everything I want, so it works out good.

One AAA film funds the other 20 that get a chance to be produced. That's how the industry works.

don't forget the ads and product placements in that multi-million dollaridoo movie that made that multi-million dollaridoo movie possible, gentil- i mean gentleman
nothing in hollywood is free, go...guy :^)

Whats the problem with capturing every frame, one by one without any compression using a third party capture device? Is it such a big deal, is there still a noticable quality loss?

Those are HDCP stripped screen captures, "good enough" but quality is degraded like copying music from line in jack. It can also contain invisible watermarks that identify leakers

UHD Blurays are hardware DRM'ed to fuck, they don't allow PC software players to date. It can have per disk keys unique to your player downloaded from their servers so they can track screen capturing pirates and remote disable their bluray player. If they allow PC UHD bluray players in future they would require new stuff like kaby lake and pascal which have secure hw paths for decoding so they will also be a hell to crack

Sony positioned it as an enthusiast videophile thing to milk, they don't even support it with PS4 Pro

companies do not push for it because ti will get cracked very fast

>Those are HDCP stripped screen captures, "good enough" but quality is degraded like copying music from line in jack.
Why? Isn't the output of the blu-ray player a lossless reproduction of the disc contents?

guru3d.com/news-story/powerdvd-and-hitachi-lg-will-offer-first-ultra-hd-blu-ray-playback-for-pc.html

here is this thing, at least some of the movies will get cracke

No, think of it like MPC-HC or mpv, the hardware player can apply post processing effects like sharping, color-corrections and lots of other stuff

Audio dude here. Is 8k even going to be a thing seriously ? i have a huge DSD/FLAC library. 24bit was the biggest thing to happen to audio - increasing sampling rates ie. going from 44.1 - 48 - 96 - 192khz didnt do jack shit acording to my ears except mke the files grossly bigger

is anyone in the film world talking about increasing HDR or the frame rate instead of the resolution. Thats where the percieved gains are - not just resolution but depth - know what im saying ?

>disk
>disk
>disk

It's disc. A disk is a hard drive.

HDR is sort of big
4/8k is going there slowly, it wook a while for 1080 to become a norm
fps- well, normal people do not understand high fps pictures, probably never

but why the hell would it?

No it isn't, you're making that up. Fuck off with your autistic delusions.

it's the same word
disc is latin origin
disk is greek

Depends on how they implemented video rendering. Decode part is lossless but every player has a different rendering/presentation

>Audio dude here. Is 8k even going to be a thing seriously ? i have a huge DSD/FLAC library. 24bit was the biggest thing to happen to audio - increasing sampling rates ie. going from 44.1 - 48 - 96 - 192khz didnt do jack shit acording to my ears except mke the files grossly bigger
Video guy here

Basically there are two limitations with current resolutions, and both are sort of the same thing:

1. Limited field of view
2. Limited resolution

The push towards 8K is not necessarily as much about increasing the visual quality (which is already essentially transparent), as it is about increasing the field of view (area of your retina that's covered by video). The 8K dream is to wrap almost all the way around your eye so that you're immersed in video.

The problem is that there's a lack of technology to enable it, currently. You can't just keep scaling up screens because it's stupidly inefficient (both making larger screens and covering more of your vision with densely packed pixels). And even if you can find yourself the 200" 8K screen required, you're still not covering the human visual range 100%. (You need 16K to max out both resolution and field of view)

It's hard to find a good analog to audio, but you could illustrate it using the sampling rate, I suppose - imagine we could only sample up to 20 kHz, which means all frequencies above 10 kHz would be missing from the audio signal. This is an analog to the peripheral vision missing from the video signal. Not a perfect analogy, but it suffices to imagine a world in which audio has similar limitations.

>Those are HDCP stripped screen captures, "good enough" but quality is degraded like copying music from line in jack. It can also contain invisible watermarks that identify leakers
lel not even that, only the martian was stream captured with HDCP, the rest are all upscales from 1080p discs or amazon webrips like the interstellar 4k torrent on public trackers

Yes but why would they be rendering _anything_?

Shouldn't they be passing the raw, untouched, lossless 4:2:0 YCbCr signal right on to the TV?

>The push towards 8K is not necessarily as much about increasing the visual quality (which is already essentially transparent), as it is about increasing the field of view (area of your retina that's covered by video). The 8K dream is to wrap almost all the way around your eye so that you're immersed in video.

By this logic 23" 4k displays shouldn't be able to work. The heck fidelity has to do with fov?

>By this logic 23" 4k displays shouldn't be able to work.
The part you're ignoring is the effect of viewing distance. Blu-ray is standardized around the TV use case, which assumes a 2-3 meter viewing distance.

At that sizes, and assuming you want to be hitting a target of 1 px/am (ITU-R Rec BT.1845), that means you're looking at a screen size of 100"-150" to take full advantage of a 3840x2160 (UHD-1) resolution.

Your 23" 4K display is not designed to be viewed at 3 meter distance, it's designed to be viewed at something like 50cm. (Which, at that viewing distance, also hits the exact same 1 px/am target)

>The heck fidelity has to do with fov?
The fidelity has always been sort of assumed to be roughly constant. The thing that's increasing is the display size, and the resolution is bumping up accordingly, to preserve the target fidelity while supporting people's desire to increase their field of view.

forgot to attach pic related

Another, and IMO better, way of thinking about it is to think in terms of image heights For any given resolution, the optimal viewing distance is a certain number times your display's height.

So using 3840x2160 (UHD-1) as another example, you want to be viewing the display at a distance of 1.6 times the display's height for optimum fidelity (1 px/am)

Movie studios are bigger than game developers.

Games are software. Blu-ray players are hardware.

Which do you think is easier to disassemble, inspect and reverse engineer?

in computing, "disc" is used for bare circular media (cd/dvd/bd/etc), and "disk" for either internal circular media (hdd/floppy/zip/etc) or sometimes also non-circular media (flash)

...

It is possible but if you don't re-encode it, which would fuck with the quality, the files would be huge, at 3 bytes per pixel, a 2 hour 4K movie would take up 4.3 terabytes. It would take at least 4 days to download such a movie on a 100 mbps connection, and you'd have to read at almost 600 MBPS from your disk, which are both possible, but are impractical, so it is unlikely that anyone would release such torrents. Even if they did, you couldn't hoard movies, which would mean that there would be no seeds eventually.

lossless video compression is a thing, it'll still be pretty big, though

also, are 4K bluray videos 10-16bit? if not, the raw video would only be half the size you mentioned

>It is possible but if you don't re-encode it, which would fuck with the quality, the files would be huge, at 3 bytes per pixel, a 2 hour 4K movie would take up 4.3 terabytes.
use HEVC in lossless mode duh

They're 8 or 10 bit, usually 8 iirc

>but if you don't re-encode it, which would fuck with the quality
this does not fuck with the quality dude
in fact, there are literally hundreds of people who spend hours re-encoding blu-ray discs to be of equivalent resolution and quality with a lower bitrate
remuxes are total bloat, few people download them

also, what the fuck video uses 24 bit color? do your research

>everyone knows it: 8K with Rec.2020 is the final frontier
You just wait

So how long will it be until we get HAMR drives? storagenewsletter.com/rubriques/hard-disk-drives/incredible-record-of-100tb-into-3-5-inch-hdd-with-hamrhelium/

>How large would a lossless copy of the stream capture be?
I gave it a try, recompressed a 25 Mbps VP9 video (4K 60 Hz) off youtube using lossless HEVC, seems to be in the 300-400 Mbps ballpark or thereabouts

(uncompressed was 6 Gbps, so the compression ratio is about 1:20)

oh look, another ““>muh 5 petabytes in one salt crystal”” technology

just you wait. They've been kicking around for a while, they're expected to be commercially available pretty soon

>to be in production by the three companies before the end of the year in their own manufacturing facilities.
okay never mind now I'm excited

...

They are cracked now.


extratorrent.cc/search/?search=4k&s_cat=&pp=&srt=size&order=desc

go away

that's are captures/transcodes, not remuxes

kys, a screen cap of 4k content is NOT the same as a lossless remux.

8-bit or 10-bit means 8 or 10 bits/color, so 24 or 30 bits per pixel, which means 10-bit blu-rays would actually take up more space than my original estimate. And yes, lossless compression is a thing, but you can't significantly reduce the size of a video file that way.

ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6317159/?reload=true
>the HEVC lossless coding mode provides perfect fidelity and an average bit-rate reduction of 3.2%-13.2%
That changes nothing in this case.

That's probably a special case like animu or something, and not a live-action movie.

>this does not fuck with the quality dude
>remuxes are total bloat, few people download them
That is beside the original point.
>what the fuck video uses 24 bit color? do your research
I based my assumptions on the way you'd record the output, but you are right, apparently blu-rays use 4:2:0 chroma subsampling that halves the size of the output to about 2.15 terabytes.

>For newspapers in some countries, it's a tradition to invent crazy news on April 1. This press release, dated April 1, has been totally invented by StorageNewsletter.com.

>It's a joke. A 100TB HDD with helium and HAMR could happen in the next ten years but it would be impossible to see the last three HDD makers working like that together for antitrust reasons.

Lets say I put you in front of a 4k 79 inch LG $4000 tv. I play 10 samples or captured 4k footage and 10 samples of 4k blu-ray footage. I ask you what ones were caputed and what ones are blu-ray.
>You are unable to get more than 50% correct.
Assuming the above is true do you need remuxes?

>Assuming the above is true
why should I assume that?

I do encodes for my job, I do my own encodes for all my DVDs and blurays, I know what the fuck a lossy encode looks like, I know the banding to look for in scenes, it pops out to me because I know what the fuck to look for.

>Assuming the above is true do you need remuxes?
Actually cracking blu-rays still enables you to
1) download the contents of a blu-ray, and write it to a disc, which you can then play in your player
2) make a copy of a disc you own (for example, you want to go travelling, and want to watch some movies on your laptop, but don't want to carry all the discs with you)

>he thinks these challenges are anything but fun for crackers
they love this shit user.

>So why put out all that money, time and effort now and burn exploits which they would have the opportunity to fix

If these exploits really are there, some "security researcher" faggot is going to find them and either make some money by tipping AACS off or he's going to publish a paper at least, of course after contacting them for permission

Bug bounties and infosec career opportunities killed pro bono reversing, plenty of pure software DRM like widevine and playready on PC which is piss easy compared to hardware stuff still remains publicly uncracked