7700k uses shit thermal interface material - delidding decreases temperatures by as much as 33C (from 99C to 66C).
Reminder that Intel hates overclockers because they'd rather have you pay 2x more for the performance you could get free from overclocking.
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>falling for the delidding meme
Enjoy your voided warranty
Apparently you can just glue it back for RMA and they are fine with it.
Intel and Apple are basically family in the sense that all their products are memes, are overproduced, and are highly overpriced, yet people still buy them
if only AMD wasn't fucking retarded, then we'd actually be getting decent CPU improvements every year
hopefully Ryzen is as good as it seems
Nah, only Apple.
Intel is a monopoly, not a meme.
WHEN'S THE PRICEDROP INTEL.
Kaby lake is Skylake. Ryzen is ready to fuck you in the ass. Drop the goddamn prices already so I can upgrade.
>amd
>wanting a house fire
its like you enjoy bdsm or something
I like how you are still calling AMD the housefire, when it is Intel who purposefully gimps their shit so it runs at 99 DEGREES CELSIUS.
It isn't even the first time, they've been at it since Ivy Bridge.
>falling for the (((intel))) meme when based shit wrecker is a month away
No wonder ryzen was able to run at a lower temp despite their fab process being slightly worse.
The TIM intel uses isn't great, but it isn't the cause of the problem. Its shim height. For whatever reason intel simply doesn't have the IHS pressed down far enough to make good contact with the die. Its unknown why this is, but it is known that it is explicitly intentional, and they have maintained this over several generations of chips now.
That's even more crooked
It is.
Some people have speculated that its to reduce cracked dies during packaging. I doubt this excuse, but at the same time it is the only logical explanation.
Sabotaging your own product, including mobile parts, makes no sense. Though intel matter of factly is doing just that. Theres no way to explain this away.
It's not shim height. It's the fact that they are purposefully NOT using solder on the K chips. They use soldered IHS on every other one of their chips, including the Extreme lines.
The K line chips are just purposefully gimped so they can't overclock as high.
Ryzen is matching Kaby right now right? Wonder if that changes with better TIM.
i7E parts can't overclock as high no matter what, the increasing power draw, and thermal limitations are far greater.
A non soldered IHS isn't an issue if done right, the difference in thermal transfer is paltry.
>K part
>warranty
You have to buy a warranty for K parts
Is there any reason why I can't just throw the lid to the trash and directly cool that surface with proper thermal paste? Genuinely curious, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Damage prevention I assume.
But being careful it should work right?
>delidding
never got this meme
are you supposed to do lapping till you don't need the thermal paste? do you just discard the lid and jam the cooler directly?
pls explain
beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>>/leave/
Man shit like this doesn't surprise me anymore. That's why I'm waiting for zen instead.
rude
They've been doing this shit since Ivy, I'm not sure how exactly it's still a surprise for some people.
In any case buying a CPU now is stupid, wait for Ryzen and see what it brings to the table, then decide what to buy.
You don't even need to lap you retard. Just clean off the thermal paste after deliding and apply new one.
It's pretty embarrassing you even have to do this in tye first place desu.
Hopefully Zen won't be a complete farce like kabby lake has been.
If zen is actually good intel might try to make a successor to sandy bridge.
wow it runs hot at 5.1ghz
>2x more for the performance you could get free from overclocking.
Nope.
>A non soldered IHS isn't an issue if done right, the difference in thermal transfer is paltry.
99C with default TIM and 66C with liquid metal TIM is a paltry difference to you? With solder, the temps would be even lower...
>Is there any reason why I can't just throw the lid to the trash and directly cool that surface with proper thermal paste? Genuinely curious, it just doesn't make sense to me.
- coolers would then not reach the die properly,
- you'd have a high chance of chipping of the die corner
But with liquid cooling and a custom shim, you probably could it.
Op is saying Intel wants you to pay 2x more for 3-5% performance increase which you could easily get from delid and overclocking.
That's what Intel has done since the bridge.
>You don't even need to lap you retard. Just clean off the thermal paste after deliding and apply new one.
Nah, you need liquid metal TIM.
Simply using different/better thermal paste will only give you minimal decrease in temps. I've been there.
Void warranty in the US is illegal and they know it, if they pull that shit you can sue and win.
Wow fuck that, going straight for Ryzen then.
Just use new thermal paste
>can't wait to buy new CPU to delid it!!
My AMD FX-8350 runs at about 60C at its hottest. It's overheating if it gets hotter, and can only handle up to 72C max.
These Intel CPUs run at stock hotter than mine can safely run period.
Again, this is from shim height of the IHS. It isn't making proper contact with the die.
The difference between TIM when properly applied and solder is paltry.
Reminder: AMD CPUs and APUs use thermal margin instead of a temperature in degrees.
I'm not the retard what blew up a perfectly good i7 core processor because he was too retarded to overclock it safely now am I?
You forgot to mention how your 8350 is also 33% worse at both single and multi thread tasks than the Intel CPU, and that yours is hooked up to a dual fan water cooling unit while the Intel ones are using stock air coolers. Faggot.
I have a hyper 212 evo and I know it's a shit CPU.
It's not a housefire though.
>Again, this is from shim height of the IHS. It isn't making proper contact with the die.
That's why there needs to be some inbetween material, in this case thermal paste. Except that the thermal paste has shit thermal conductivity, hence why Intel K processors ever since Ivy Bridge have shit temps and cannot overclock due to hitting thermal limits.
The Extreme platform cpus all use solder and have better temps, even if you delid your K cpu and use better TIM paste.
>The difference between TIM when properly applied and solder is paltry.
No. Solder has better thermal conductivity than anything except maybe Liquid Pro.
That one talks about lapping the IHS, and no one here is talking about that.
Just stop talking out of your ass already.
Conclusion: The Intel stock CPU TIM is not the reason Ivy Bridge's run hot, and replacing the Intel stock CPU TIM is not the reason a delidded Ivy Bridge runs so much cooler - the benefits of delidding are entirely due to the resultant reduction in gap height between the CPU silicon die and the underside of the IHS.
Wow! That's almost 1337 Kelvin!
>I'm not the retard what blew up
lol
Source: your ass
The point is that if they soldered the IHS on, you wouldn't have them running at fucking 99°C, because the solder would fill up that empty space with better thermal conductivity than any TIM.
In fact the reason why the space is there is because the material they use as solder is thicker before soldering.
The point is that shim height is responsible for the high temps, not the chosen TIM. TIM is not inherently bad in any way. If this height is reduced there is no significant difference between using TIM, and putting a water block directly on a bare die.
This is too well documented to refute, you're arguing that the sky isn't blue.
>The point is that shim height is responsible for the high temps, not the chosen TIM.
I'm not arguing the quality of their thermal paste, I'm saying that they knowingly gimped their CPUs by using thermal paste in the first place, instead of using the soldered IHS they use for damn near every other chip in production, including the Extreme line ones.
>7700k
>less power efficient than 6700k
>5% less performance than 6700k
>less overclock than 6700k
>costs $100 more and requires a new motherboard
>poo tier thermal interface
>$459
2017 will be the like a time travel back to when amd64 released and intel went on LITERAL suicide watch
im removing my intel sticker from my case, whos with me?
did you tards ever bother to think the reason IHSes exist it is distribute the load of the heatsink over the interposer rather than place it solely on the die. when things get hot they expand and there is going to be a lot more stress on the interface between the die and interposer without an IHS.
>package substrate
>interposer
Try again.
FYI all pressure of the heat sink is used to ensure good contact with the IHS. If there is no IHS present the clamping pressure required is only a fraction, and the mountain hardware takes all the force.
The IHS exists to protect fragile dies from cracking in consumer hands. There is no other reason for them.
You asseating tardfag did you even read the thread?
Nobody wants to advocate removal of the ihs the issue is that intel uses bio degradable shit tier consumer grade thermal paste instead of soldering it. Intel advocates the ihs removal by saving pennies.
This
>The IHS exists to protect fragile dies from cracking in consumer hands
/thread.
jewtel uses cheap TIM because they rightfully view it disdainfully as just part of an anti-idiot shield system.
>Try again.
stay retarded user
>Nobody wants to advocate removal of the ihs the issue
literally in OP's post he is advocating delidding
Keep on trying.
Not all substrate packages are interposers, though they're sometimes used interchangeably they are not the same class of packaging.
intel.com
eesemi.com
holy fuck you're actually retarded
cpus dont have dies upside down with bondwires covered in resin
your image is completely irrelevant to the discussion choke on a cod u cunt
>calling AMD a housefire
>when intel's been fucking up thermal paste for a while
My sides
>intel.com
>mobile processors
>grasping at straws when caught talking out of your ass like the clueless kid you are
uhmm... thanks alot guys
YOU DID IT :D
Where the fuck is the actual silicon that you see in all the pictures?
>uhmm... thanks alot guys
YOU DID IT
>if only AMD wasn't fucking retarded
I've been waiting since I upgraded from my Athlon XP all those years ago, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Firmly attached to that heat spreader.
I remember when people were saying the 6700k was a bad CPU, kek.
I've been bretty happy with mine for the past year. Not too upset about Crappy Lake since I wasn't planning on upgrading.
And quite frankly I haven't thought to myself, "Damn, my computer would run so much better if my CPU were faster" since my C2Q Q9450. The only reason I've upgraded the past few years is because:
A) previous build just started breaking down (legit the mobo started crapping out and I'm sure as fuck not going to buy old ass parts)
B) shits and giggles
C) I like to pretend I still play video games
When does the 7700k come out?
Next month supposedly.
As badly as I need to upgrade though, Ryzen is looking like the better buy.
fark I'm buying a new computer very soon, is it worth me waiting for the 7700k or should I just get the 6600k?
Wait for Ryzen, AMD will probably be offering 8 cores with 16 threads at the price of an i7 7700K
6700k is good to go right now. 7700k is like a 1% improvement, not worth waiting for.
Ryzen is worth waiting for though. Wait till that's out and see how it holds up then decide.
Wait for zen then buy whatever you want, however the 7700K has zero improvements if you aren't looking into OC'ing, and even then it's pretty bad at that thanks to the shit TIM/IHS they are using to deliberately gimp their non extreme CPU's
Ryzen will bring prices down like it has never seen in x86 land
7700k will be worth it for the higher clock rates and thus higher overclcocks compared to a 6700k.
Compared to a Ryzen it will only be worth it if you highly value single thread pref.
>Compared to a Ryzen it will only be worth it if you highly value single thread pref.
Depends how close Ryzen matches it on IPC. If it's close, it'll be a no brainer really.
Quite the upgrade from my i5 2500k lol.
cuck.
this meme needs to end, it's a limited warranty
Hes British
Like the pajeets in customer service knows the difference.
>voiding warranty on a CPU
boohoo, it's only the single most resistant and durable component of a modern PC
The difference between Apple and Intel is that Apple sells substandard products for outrageous prices by marketing them aggressively towards idiots
Meanwhile, Intel simply sells the best products available in their class, so they get to charge outrageous premium prices for them.
Waiting for poocessor from AMD
Not buying 6700k on black friday for 250$
You fucked up kiddo
leave dirty normie
>The point is that shim height is responsible for the high temps, not the chosen TIM.
Question: Would a soldered IHS with the same shim height run just as hot?
It is until you start cutting into the heatspreader
>jewtel uses cheap TIM because they rightfully view it disdainfully as just part of an anti-idiot shield system.
Then why do they solder all of their xeon and extreme series chips?
This is a 2500k posted in a thread from 2007 on [H]ardforum
Why don't they just solder the die, I just don't get it. Surely the thermal intermediate is worse than using die to IHS soldering and more expensive to boot then a tiddlywink of solder.
There any actual reason to why they do this, or do they like getting RMAs as a fetish?
To prevent overclocking and to sell +1% kaby lakes with moar megahurtz.
>Why don't they just solder the die, I just don't get it.
Because then you can overclock a i5 to so high speeds that there is no point in buying the more expensive Extreme platform cpus, or even as much as an i7.
So by gimping overclocking, they give more incentive for people to buy the more expensive chips.
same, but enterprise customers will bitch more for conspicuously cut corners
How much more does it cost intel to solder the IHS instead of using their shit TIM+shim like they do on the K series?
Did performance/W even improve with Kaby Lake?
Seems like it stayed the same, aka 7700k performs like a slightly overclocked 6700k (higher speed, but also higher power use).
something on the order of like a fifth of a penny.
>How much more does it cost intel to solder the IHS instead of using their shit TIM+shim like they do on the K series?
Not a lot, the same reasons why Xeon E3s dont cost that much more than a comparable i7. Its just that all the butthurt fags here didnt want to spend an extra $20 on their CPU.
So how does that justify using a shitty TIM that seems to have no benefit except for artificially making the cheaper CPUs even worse?
You said it's just done with disdain, but I don't buy it. Are you really suggesting they're artificially fucking over their customers out of pure malice, with no ulterior motive? No company could possibly hate their source of income that much. If they wanted to fuck over their consumers, they'd just increase the price tag. (Heck, they do)
If it's as cheap as you make it seem, then it's literally not even cutting corners, there has to be some deeper reason for wanting to gimp their CPUs. I mean they could just artificially gimp the chips themselves if that's their only motive.
Like they didn't want you to dual celeron A's back in the BP6 days.