I'm new to linux, but i've heard so much controversy around systemd, is it really a plot by NSA or is that bullshit?

I'm new to linux, but i've heard so much controversy around systemd, is it really a plot by NSA or is that bullshit?

Other urls found in this thread:

suckless.org/sucks/systemd
0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
judecnelson.blogspot.de/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Not quite a plot by the NSA(though that could be a thing), but it goes against the Unix philosophy: it does way too many things and eats up way too many programs(udev, mount, etc.), gobbling it all up into a single point of failure.

Once a program becomes responsible for doing almost everything on your system, a simple security flaw somewhere in one of its sections can be serious enough to compromise the rest of the system.

The way the Unix philosophy works, programs are kept simple(to some extent), and your system is a result of many programs thrown together, which means if you want to replace part A with part B, all part B needs to do is communicate properly with part C, that depended/used A.

GNU/Linux was build on mostly these ideas:
>don't make complex things, make small universal programs which can do just one thing, but do it in the best way possible
>let everybody do whatever they want with the code

And systemd is pure opposite of that. It is "subsystem", mainly used for managing linux deamons (services), but it has so many features, it will soon run doom and allows you to edit odt documents.

As people often points out the linux is wasting dev time by shattering power into multiple systems, systemd is try at unify the behavior amongst all distros.

Even if you develop apps for linux, it most likely doesn't concern you. Systemd concerns mostly low level stuff, like managing drivers, hardware, deamons.

It is big change toward complexity and a lot of people don't like it.

GNUs
not
unix

Just use openrc for init

look at the stem of that y
look at those serifs

the CIA niggers are trying to play mind games

There is no controversy.

There is nothing wrong with systemd, only autists say otherwise

Protip:

No matter what you see in the millions of blogs in the internet, there is not a single valid backdoor found up to date.

Here is how it went:
1. RedHat makes systemd, the most advanced init system in the Unix family
2. Project leader is kinda arrogant, doesn't give a fuck about *BSDs
3. *BSD fags get insecure that no one gives a shit any more
4, Start writing anti-systemd blogs on spare time (which is 24/7)
5. Meme catches on
6. NOT a SINGLE backdoor found up to date, but number of blogs is more than a couple hundreds
7. Typical excuse is "too active to audit" while NOT a SINGLE snapshot of system has been proven to have a backdoor
8. Source of systemd is completely open

Don't like it? It's GPL'd so fork off.

Forgot to attach a picture

i got used to systemd
its the first i learned, when i wasnt aware of alternatives.
And know, when im aware of em i dont know what to do.
It feels like systemd is wrong, but its comfy to me. When i change due to the style issues of systemd, i need to take the consequences of messy init scripts.
its a little bit like switching to linux from windows
or like jumping in the cold water.
right know i do a lfs, and i installed systemd instead of initd. its not to late to change that.
i need to rethink how important this KISS princip is.

pls redpill me on systemd

it comes installed with Arch

it just works

It's shilled by pro-NSA anti-privacy faggots who litteraly suck Poettering's dick. But then it's a good test to see if your distro care enough about security.

Protip:
1. RedHat worked more than once with the NSA. You're probably paid to shill.
Here's all the flaws of systemd: suckless.org/sucks/systemd
+ what is OpenRC
2. Project leader is known for writing shitty code (PulseAudio)
3. Stawman
4. Strawman
5. Strawman
6. With more 30K of code added/removed/changed every single day it couldn't possibly be audited.
7. See 6. and get some comprehension skills.
8. Open as your ass.

People complain because it is bloated and "non-Unix like".
But they must forget that GNU means "GNUs not unix"! ffs
Like this poster said

>2. Project leader is known for writing shitty code
Doesn't this fall perfectly under GNU philosophy? Isn't whole GNU about who can write most broken and unreadable code?

Somehow, yes.

nah, no such bullshit

just an incredibely badly designed piece of shit by a very smug author.

when you try to make user instances respect pam_limits to get realtime prio or when you notice the code designed to hide legimate errors when systemd nspawn containers try to change r/o /sys entries you will also learn to gradually hate this shit

doesn't help that poettering takes any complaints as personal attacks

>NOT a SINGLE backdoor found up to date
Wasn't there a bug in ssh that took 10 years to find? systemd hasn't been around that long so I think this is a weak argument

0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

Anti-systemd faggots are:

[ ] not rekt
[*] rekt

Muh Strawman
Read this suckless.org/sucks/systemd and tell me more about "myths", fucking shill

You mean Runit/SysVinit/others, OpenRC needs an init to call it and manage runlevels.

You can have OpenRC perform startup and all that but you still need an init, you can't just have an RC.

Little known fact: Gentoo uses SysVinit and OpenRC by default, not just OpenRC.

People don't like systemd because it's maintained by a corporation. Feel free to ignore their communist fearomongering like you ignore "russia hacked muh elections" talk.

judecnelson.blogspot.de/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html

Sorry, too busy ignoring your communist fearomongering.

-every new linux switchover goes through internet flak, the same shits having just tried to convert windows users on another site will flip shit at any new part of the system just like his grandpa did when they announced at his company that they'd be moving from books to computer software in the 80s. doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter what it does, same thing happened to a lesser extent for grub2 and pulseaudio. same thing also happens every time a distro changes its default DE, even though they've installed other DEs 1001 times, they will flip shit over what is the default and start e-protests without having even tried it.

-reason why the systemd meme took off is because it fools you into thinking you're a linux developer or in the place to make these decisions. when we have these shitty psuedo discussions it's always "I just don't like the philosophy of systemd" or something else generic or just mumble some bullshit about some 1960s unix design when 1mb of mem was $10k. You have to remember that a good two thirds of people who repeat this meme don't know what an init system and are blindly repeating "systemd sucks" because others said it.

-linux communities are chock full of contrarians who always have to go their own way. so you can expect everyone who was perfectly fine on init suddenly has some psuedo esoteric faggot opinion on systemd and "linux history" and "design philosphy". all of these are just byphrases for "I'm fucking better than you!!!!!"

stop sticking your head where it doesn't belong if you aren't going to actually learn about it and just make shit up. But nobody is willing to do this and now we have 100 extra distros proclaiming their systemd-freeness that nobody cares about or uses because the driving force is contrarianism and all those distros end up being shit because they have no real idea how to actually make a distro outside their faux forum messaging board retard culture that they think entitled them to make these decisions

>unironically falling for suckless autism

Kys, shillfags.

lol suckless shits are stuck in the 80s harder than their own parents they still live with. your solution to any new problem after this time is "just throw the problem out"

muh bsd
muh plan9 isnt dead guys
muh im better than u but read this autistic post


>Oh u dont need software cause we dont have any so drop all your friends, sites, and everything else and then it will work!

You write like a retard, they have some real arguments. What do you have? Nothing but memes and strawman. Hang yourself.

hush you NSA shill.

t. NSA shill :^)

systemd is the best thing to happen to Linux in a while. Don't listen to tinfoil-hatters, there is LITERALLY no proof that it has NSA backdoors. The code is open for anyone to audit.

most anti-sytemd retards claim it's a big monolithic program that is against UNIX. It's actually a bunch of smaller programs under the same label, much like the Gnome or KDE projects. They don't have issues with these, but for some reason, systemdicks gets a bad rap.

Until proven otherwise I'm going to chalk it up to fear of change and general autism.

systemd is basically a single point of failure that the NSA always wanted in Linux. Pushed by the Red Hat company onto all distributions.

Totally not stacked by RedHat

>botnet owner spammed the poll because he has every reason to love systemd
seems about right

>much like the Gnome or KDE projects. They don't have issues with these, but for some reason, systemdicks gets a bad rap.
Because there are competitive alternatives to those.

The most important reason people hate it is because it reduces distributions into repo maintainers + config file providers. All the controversy is just a cover up to sound logical.

This is a ridiculous argument. So is this: systemd generally took a flexible system handled by scripts and simple tools and moved them into suite of coupled dependencies when no problem needing it as a solution actually existed.

along the way, everyone lost their beloved system log file and the nukes got launched as this is the one thing that assures your destruction.

replacing a tested and easily extended system with an untested one by a dis-loved developer for the only benefit of shaving some milliseconds off of startup is something you just don't do, don't need to do, and we don't want you to do.

RedHat certainly isn't respected as a distributor either considering, say, how long the exim 4.69 root exploit was ignored as well as other aspects of their business *ahem* involvements.

Bottom line: Beware the bearers of false gifts & their broken promises. Much pain but still time. Do not use systemd.

What a dumb argument. There are tons of alternatives to every systemd program. Take gummiboot for example. systemd's UEFI booter is just fucking gummiboot with a different name. But there are like 20 other ones you could use if you don't like that. Nothing is stopping you from using GRUB or anything else. Is calling it systemd-boot instead of gummiboot really an issue? Sounds like autism to me.

>everyone lost their beloved system log file

wrong. you can still use the same old log file if you choose. I swear, everyone who hates on systemd hasn't even RTFM for it.

Reply to this, fucking faggots : suckless.org/sucks/systemd

>is it really a plot by NSA or is that bullshit?
No, that's just your average conspiracy nut bullshit.

The NSA has got fuck all to do with Red Hat (except for being a customer; the NSA needs to run servers too after all)

I did. That retard thinks systemd is one single piece of software. It's not.

Who cares?

>I did. That retard thinks systemd is one single piece of software. It's not.
But if all the parts are heavily interdependent then it may as well be.

All linux software is interdependent. What do you think apis are?

>managing drivers, hardware
oh is it in the kernel now already?

>Once a program becomes responsible for doing almost everything on your system, a simple security flaw somewhere in one of its sections can be serious enough to compromise the rest of the system.

what, vs a million different programs by hundreds of developers all running with root access?

Look, I dont have a stake in this argument one way or the other, but Id rather have fewer developers running code on my machine.

>>managing drivers, hardware
>oh is it in the kernel now already?
systemd is like the kernel's kernel.

wrong

right

>systemd is like the kernel's kernel.
this is wrong.

>this is wrong.
>wrong

Explain.

fewer developers means less decentralization and easier targets for spooks though

systemd is not like the kernel's kernel.

> systemd is an init system used in Linux
> distributions to bootstrap the user space and
> manage all processes subsequently, instead
> of the UNIX System V or Berkeley Software
> Distribution (BSD) init systems.

That's all in user space, has nothing to do with the kernel.

The kernel doesn't have a kernel, but the closest thing would be the process scheduler.

>systemd is not like the kernel's kernel.
I meant it as an analogy; systemd is to the kernel what the kernel is to your hardware; it is a layer that installs itself between the user and the kernel, managing your interactions with it.

>tfw downloading arch-openrc as a result of this thread
>tfw got meme'd

>arch

I see what you mean. Shoulda said "systemd is like the userspace's kernel" then I would have let you live.

>Shoulda said "systemd is like the userspace's kernel"
I suppose that would be more accurate, but doesn't sound as cool :(

Fuck off Lennart

>what, vs a million different programs by hundreds of developers all running with root access?
why would you run everything as root??

The real issue is when you realize that systemd is a dependency for GNOME.
Ultimately the blame doesn't belong to the systemd devs, but the GNOME devs for being fucking retarded and not making their DE more modular.
It's a cold day in hell when your DE is less modular than fucking KDE.

so you're saying i can't use gnome for my OS :.(

Funtoo does have patches to get GNOME to work on non systemd systems.
The thing is that you have to rely on Funtoo devs instead of upstream GNOME devs, which could lead to breakage and instability.
The only reason BSD can still use GNOME is because of Funtoo's patchset so it works, but I'd prefer to listen to upstream personally.

It's NSA botnet. Don't fall for the shilling.

I mean it's probably in large part because the project goal seems to be to make systemd -the- OS used by desktops running a linux kernel, reducing the distros that use it to little more than skins. Basically windows on the linux kernel; a unified framework that devs can all work under, so that development is less fragmented and desktop-linux can progress faster.

I don't really think it's an NSA plot, but depending on your views is still quite troubling.

>why root
This thread is about systemd, try running anything systemd as nonroot.
Root is needed for this type of shit.

>fewer developers
It also means less of a chance that one goes rouge and includes a line that downloads and executes malicious code.

>using proxypol as an argument
Don't

>unironically using Shitnux

Just lol, you deserved to be raped by lennart poettering.

Should I buy these stickers for my laptop? What will people think?

AH NICE FOUND A HIPSTER SYSTEMD OPPOSER HIPSTER TODDLER - LET ME CUM IN YOUR ASS PLEASE.

For everyone else, systemd is not just an init system, it has an init system as part of the systemd suite.

systemd is a project to build a standardised lowlevel userland for Linux. The project is pretty comprehensive and it delivers a lot of functionality under one umbrella. It does away with a lot of older, often undermaintained software packages, which were traditionally used to assemble a low level userland.

Which is where the contention comes from, as a system suite systemd is restrictive for Unix virtuosi who are used to tailor a system with wit, ingenuity, a lick and a prayer and a couple dozen of unrelated packages. systemd makes such knowledge useless.

The faction that thinks that systemd is Linux's Hiroshima, finds all the added functionality bloat, unnecessary and dangerous, as it is all under development in one project.

All the systemd jokes stem from the comprehensiveness as a low level system suite. People against it love to joke that one day systemd will write its own kernel.

There is a lot of FUD and hate going around. Some arguments do have merit, a lot of eggs in one basket is certainly true, but as with all things in life, it depends which tradeoff you prefer. Do you want a suite of well designed software, working closely together, so that system management is streamlined or do you want the complete freedom to tailor your own low level system with a lot of time tested, interchangeable components.

>MUHH UNIX :DDDDD
Fuck off with your depricated meme philosophy that sells for money

But plan 9 isnt dead.

Suckless is supposed to be sarcastic. Can't take it seriously

found the NSA nigger

Typical 14 y/o kid that has problems with systemd because it's popular

chill dude i'm just lightly trolling. i don't give a fuck about systemd at all. NSA is gonna NSA, and there's almost nothing anyone can do about it. I do have a concern about what possible ways the NSA is spying on people (including whether or not they've backdoored systemd), but it's all fucked anyway. so who cares, what can you do?

>14
Oh man I wish I was that young again.

Who gives a shit?

All of the top 15 Linux distros at the moment use it (Arch literally can’t run without it anymore). Systemd is a staple of Linux now and that’s not going to change.

>Muh Unix design philosophy
>Muh NSA backdoor
Don’t listen to the gentoo autists, systemd is perfectly fine.

tl;dr: it's made by redhat, redhat has govt contracts, therefore automatic botnet

It's also open source, so fuck off.

^ pretty much this. My main issues with systemd come from the behavior of the developers (we know better than you, fuck off) and their indifference to legitimate bugs.

There isn't a lick of actual proof that there's anything even resembling a backdoor anywhere in systemd.

People, in particular sysadmins, hate systemd because it's a lot of change for change's sake.

If I have a stack of init scripts that bring every system in my datacenter up just fine and dandy, and one upgrade brings in this thing that fucks 'em all up, what do you think my opinion is going to be? It's going to be "fuck you, I had a working system, now I don't."

Yes, systemd is technically easier to write for. Yes, it supports more corner cases that exist on desktops (that one thing that Linux never will have more than a tiny minority of) used by people like Your Mom.

This is all fine, if Linux was a desktop OS. It is not in the real world. It is a server OS, and people that maintain servers have very little time for assertions that ITS BETTER!11 without concrete proof to that effect. They also have very little time for added complexity (compare the average sysv vs the average systemd) to support a bunch of bullshit they do not and will never care about.

Socket activation? Who gives a fuck about this? It's called listening on ports.

Hotplug? Who gives a fuck about this? I'm not plugging webcams and NICs into my racks.

>Advancement/Development
lol who gives a fuck about this XD

guy in this thread is "demanding everyone reply to it"

>The entire site was only pretending to be retarded!

yep change just for change sake
grub2, pulseaudio, grub over lilo, different de's and everything else that people flipped shit over are just changes made to piss everyone off. Like I said, you are NO different, let me repeat, NO DIFFERENT, from your grandpa saying the same shit about computers being introduced to every industry in the 80s.

Journalists certainly know how to work clickbait, they make you think you're developers, then we enter this meme universe where everyone repeats it to try to let other people think they make these kinds of choices but has no clue why it's supposed to be "bad". In 10 years, because of shit like this, you're going to see a distro that comes with the ability to choose which DE it has, that distro will be marketed as a "developer" distro because you get to make huge choices.

Why not have an animation of a bunch of people looking at your mouse and freaking out as it hovers between each choice. And each little group of people has a t-shirt on of each choice and the group you don't choose, screams and starts killing themselves. That will get people to get this idea in their head that their gay little choice is affecting millions of people much quicker.

>grub2
overcomplicated shit
>pulseaudio
overcomplicated freedesktop shit

>everything else that people flipped shit over are just changes made to piss everyone off.

Of course that isn't the goal, you nigger, the goal is obviously to improve. What most sysadmins want is not a bunch of Microsoft-tier desktop bullshit de-facto forced on them in an environment where it does not make any sense.

I had NTP. What concrete benefits does systemd-ntp offer me?

Where the FUCK did those hipster faggots run off to? Respond to me there if you have the balls.

Like I said, most anti-systemd shits are just memelets who don't even know what it replaced or what an init system IS. It's impossible to even explain this to them because they didn't previously think about it before. If you asked them what init system they used before systemd, they would just say "iunno it just worked whatever it was so we need to go back to it". Or they would say "what is an init system? fuck systemd though"

journalists have memed these people into thinking they are developers in charge of shit about to make some important choice.

quite literally half of systemd complainer memelets wouldn't know the difference if you had two PCs side by side, and wouldn't even know how to check.

Bottom line is, it's over, and every major distro is on systemd, so you're free to use some hipster unmaintained piece of shit.

Holy fucking shit. It just clicked that it's System D and not System MD. I am such a fucking moron

sometimes I think you are right

runit dont need sysvinit

yeah right
good luck using wayland chromium or anything without systemd

>It's open source
On LGPL with binary blobs, eat my shit

>System MD
Holy fuck. Your post just made me realize the same thing. Is is really just System D?

>System D
No, it's "systemd"

One large ad-hominem, 0 (zero) arguments. Why are you selling your soul to get paid $0.0001 per shill post, Ranjid? Go work in a call center like all of your friends.

Top quality argument YOU posted there, unemployed fucktard

We don't actually know if it is a botnet or not.
We believe the kernel is safe from the NSA as long as Linus is in charge of it because the community trusts him, and systemd would be the second best target for a botnet in a Linux system. The problem with systemd is that its a bloated program that touches many vital parts of the system using high privilege, but because the code is a big bloated mess that keeps getting bigger, we can't easily audit it and be sure and that makes people suspicious.

Audit a snapshot