HIRE AMERICAN FIRE NON-AMERICANS. Really hope Trump reforms H1B...

HIRE AMERICAN FIRE NON-AMERICANS. Really hope Trump reforms H1B. It's absolutely ridiculous hard working Americans are being pushed out of the tech industry because companies are exploiting cheap labor via this FRAUDULENT program. WE WANT JOBS!

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twitter.com/MicrosoftJobs/status/827263510518181888
youtube.com/watch?v=GFg66BJO2w4
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13614507
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thats a stupid way to look at it.

here is a breakdown for you.

you arent being hired because you are too dumb, meanwhile, pajeet is a hardworking dude who knows how to get shit done, thats why he gets hired and you are complaining on an imageboard

kill yourself for voting trump you fag.

kys you red pilled moronic Idiot

t. Poojeet

Dude, H1B was intended to get Elon Musks of the world, not populate entry level tech worker ranks. You think Microsoft and Qualcomm have thousands of positions open for senior level architects? Why do you think tech workers in defense get an auto salary bump, maybe cause they're not competing with foreign nationals? If it wasn't strictly cost and only due to intelligence or talent there'd be no salary discrepancy.

They hire foreign workers because it's easier to pay them less because they often require less in terms of living expenses, and they also are more loyal to the company.

Why not just import 50 million Chinese to work all american jobs?

It's almost like a cost of living exists

learn how to fucking compete man.

>They hire foreign workers because it's easier to pay them less because they often require less in terms of living expenses, and they also are more loyal to the company.

All I read was theyre cheap and have to go home if they're ford fired.

its pretty sad when the innovators of technology are being pushed down by society in our own country

intelligence isnt rewarded like the old days

kids dont want to be scientists or engineers

they want to be actors or models and basketball players or rappers


personal it feels really great to be validated after so long..

i always thought i was born too late (not in the tech boom and internet bubble of the 80s)

where people designed their own home computers and programmed them and you needed technical knowledge to access a BBS

i spend all my youth so interested in the subject and somehwere along the line they went from being treated as wizards to that of a plumber

someone who just restarts the servers who facebook crashes

someone who backports a patch to a outdated kernel

they dont understand the technical difficulty involved so its percieved as simple

ive had trouble personally finding work despite having more experience and personal interest in these fields

im ranting here and i shouldnt because im just so greatful to have the mutual respect back between a employer and employee

that people will be help accountable for contracts and they will be required to be qualified for that task

including certifications and references ect

thank you trump!

I'm a software developer and I think there's only 1 other person in our group whose parents where born in this country. Most of my coworkers are foreign, here temporarily or permanently. I think part of the problem is that Americans don't want to be engineers. Personally, I had a number of teachers, advisers, bosses tell me I'm not cut out for serious technology. Despite their advice, which was perfectly reasonable, I graduated and have been working in the industry for about 6-7 years. It's going ok. It's not a great lifestyle though, I can understand why people don't want to do it. If we can make the industry more attractive to people somehow I think more Americans will join without having to lower the foreign hire capacity or drastically increasing wages.

I feel you man

This is happening in all fields of science, not just computing

>>>/reddit/

>If we can make the industry more attractive to people somehow I think more Americans will join without having to lower the foreign hire capacity or drastically increasing wages.
And yet there's so much crying and gnashing of teeth when initiatives to get women into tech happen.

I like the idea of having more women in tech but I don't like these women in tech initiatives. It seems like such a kludge solution. Like, you're trying to take 15 year old girls and be like "hey random girl, you should study computer science". I was into computers way before 15, but I'm a guy so it was ok. When I was a kid, I didn't want to talk to people. I wanted to play video games, build computers, fix electronics, write code, etc. That's just not a lifestyle women find attractive. If we can change the culture of the industry women (and girls) will want to join organically without needing focus groups, lawyers, campaigns, etc. Obviously I don't have the answers and I'm not an expert, I'm just throwing out ideas.

I do understand the abuse of H1B, it should be prevented.

But, have you been to a university recently? If so were you able to count the number of US citizens who are grad students? In most universities you can count it with your fingers. Projects awarded by defense industry usually run out of time because they can't find grad students who are US citizens.

So removing H1B completely will also remove the supply of actually skilled PhDs that are not readily available in US. Also why send back these dudes who get educated using resources in US? This is how tech industry in US stays ahead of others.

Do you have an alternative to this issue? No? Then H1B should stay.

H1B is fine, the salary ranges and enforcement need to be brought up to grade so that we bring in actual entrepreneurs, not poos

they hire foreigners, because your education is shit.

>entrepreneurs
That would be an E visa, not H1B. H is for temporary workers that would fill a critical position for which a competent employee can't be found in US.

'get women into tech' is to reduce wages, like everything else.
They rarely get the kind of useful highly trained people out of those programs that the companies actually need- the women there just make up a large number of the 'technically qualified' to use as a 'whoa look how many people are applying, time to pay them dirt'

>foreigners magically require less living expenses
yeah, nonsense. (assuming they pay the same amount of taxes as natives)

The trump changes won't get rid of H1B, they will just make it so that the more you're paying your H1B, the higher priority they are.
Basically how it should have been in the first place. If you aren't willing to pay for them then they aren't critically demanded are they

Fuck off pajeet, trump is saving america by keeping our jobs and stopping globalists from destroying america.

This is a problem manufactured entirely by government contracting rules.

The fed has rules against hiring non-degree holders, against hiring non-union members, etc. You CANNOT be a research lead in govt without a PhD, and you can't do research without being part of a postgraduate degree program or better.

It's retarded and self defeating to lock out 95% of people for ivory tower scum.

H1B is for highly skilled. Your average junior programmer should not ever be filled by a visa

Nigga most of these jobs are outsourced anyways.

Tech does not rely on citizenship

>pajeet makes software in india
>americans can't compete
>americans don't have jobs again
wow, the magic of the free market

>H1B is for highly skilled. Your average junior programmer should not ever be filled by a visa
Not for entrepreneurs though. They get another type of visa, which is what I was correcting on the other dude's post.

Also highly skilled gets an O visa and not an H1B. H is specifically for the talent that is important for US but not available in US.

>The trump changes won't get rid of H1B,
Has he made an official statement? Why are you so optimistic about him? Especially after his glorious "WE SHALL BAN THEM!" statements during his rallies turned out to be a half baked executive order that made only a little impact.

>No more americans can afford anything since all jobs pay 10$ an hour
>Entire market crashes since all the services were leeching off middle america
wow this really made me twink

At least we know how to shit in the toilet.

Pajeet, H1B is slave labor. They're supposed to pay you what an American worker would get, but I think you know how that works out.

Trump's strategy of verifying that there's no local talent and that H1B workers get equal payment is good for Pajeets who know what they're doing.

I sit on one of the boards that selects Pajeets for a tech company in the Greater Seattle Area.

The lowest salary I have ever seen thrown across the table was $50k/year. We are not paying these H1B's minimum wage, they are making decent money. I'd say 1/4th of them get a 6 figure position. We may pay an American 140k, and we can pay Pajeet 100k. I've seen American developers that rather collect unemployment then settle for a 100k/year job. I do not get it, we are greedy and selfish.

>murrikans think they are somehow worth more than everyone else
kek

twitter.com/MicrosoftJobs/status/827263510518181888

Because those initiatives don't pull in actual talent, or even people who are interested in the field. Coercing women into computer engineering fields insinuates that they're not capable of showing interest and initiative themselves.

Trump said multiple times throughout his campaign that the H1B system needs to result in paying foreign workers fair wages instead of paying them peanuts to save on the bottom line.

Can't they hire foreigners without H1Bs?

I would fucking murder a human being inside a church with a dead babies umbilical cord if it meant getting a job paying 100K a year.

Cost of living in Seattle is so much higher than you think. They pay for one day in parking what would buy you three days of food.

>Trump said multiple times throughout his campaign that the H1B system needs to result in paying foreign workers fair wages instead of paying them peanuts to save on the bottom line.
So he has said that he would do something about it but not what he would do to achieve that.

Like everything he says really, so far they turned out to be not impressive. Excluding one person he appointed Rex Tillerson though, he turned out decent I think.

Live outside of town inside a a trailer being pulled by your truck. Or just live in a box. Hell you can live in your car if you rotate between truck stops.

I did before. All you have to do is save up for at least 6-9 months of most of what you would make and you can get out on top with some nice savings.

Americans, you don't understand that your basic education system is horrid. Sure, you have some great Universities but it is ignorant to think that 4 years of Higher Education is somehow going to compensate for 12+ years of poor basic education. Not to mention, you are more susceptible to learning at younger ages and the type of education you get at those younger years really does define your intelligence later in life.

The US, Like China is a huge place. I'm interested in how they came up with those stats. There's hundreds of millions people in rural China who do not consider quality higher education a top priority.
Limiting "China" to "Shanghai" is like limiting the United States to Massachusetts, a complete misrepresentation.

Also, in my experience, while early childhood education plays a big part in how you learn as an adult, lot of that can be overcome with persistence. If you're willing to stick with something for years or decades, you'll get good at it. As a kid I was held back in math and told I wasn't good enough. I ended up taking advanced calculus in college. I had the support from my family and environment to apply myself to math, among other things, something many kids don't get, even in America.

Numbers are nice, but stereotypes go a long way in shaping how you view individuals. Most people aren't smart enough to objectively evaluate a person without cultural prejudices. That's not necessarily a terrible thing in all cases, bias is a valid survival mechanism on a primitive level, I'm sure
When most people think of Chinese people they think of math nerds quietly toiling away on computers for peanuts. Meanwhile, these are the Chinese kids I grew up around:
youtube.com/watch?v=GFg66BJO2w4

Still, for a place like silicon valley that salary needs to be 130k+ not 60k which is entry level desktop support.

Exactly, most h1bs live 6 to an apartment and send all the money back home

>Still, for a place like silicon valley that salary needs to be 130k+ not 60k which is entry level desktop support.
That has nothing to do with what I said. I wasn't even talking about salaries.

Entrepreneur gets E
Highly skilled gets O
Critical employee not available in US gets H

What the other dude was saying was wrong and I wanted to correct.

I make 100k user and I've only been working on IT for 6 years.

It's really not that hard.

I'm not getting this whole ''we can't find enough skilled workers in America'' meme.

I think the only area that really needs people and can't find them was nursing and SOME Doctors.

I heard horror stories about college graduates with CS degrees and programming training who can't find a single job even paying 35K and they resort to working at places like wal-mart or customer service making 14$ an hours.

Exactly, by upping the H1B salary it means companies can no longer use it as a backdoor to import 3rd world contractors and pay them slave labor wages.

It still allows for companies to hire foreign PhDs and the like crucial for advancing in research but at the same time removes the economic benefit of outsourcing to the lowest bidder (Tata consultancy bullshit).

Sadly my own shit country sells out to pajeets, every single bank in Canada is run by TFW (temporary foreign workers) who are flown in for 6-12mos contracts and paid less than a janitor

Because it's a scam.

What they can't find is skilled workers willing to work for their shitty salary, so they cry to the feds and demand H1Bs be imported because 'nobody can be hired'.

>I'm not getting this whole ''we can't find enough skilled workers in America'' meme.
But it is real, finding US citizens with PhDs to work is seriously hard. Bulk of the jobs that are created in tech don't require a PhD but research positions and higher levels do which is exactly why H visa exists.

The companies who are exploiting it for tech consulting can find skilled workers in America though.

It's never been about PhDs it's always been about megacorps offering really lowball salaries and unable to get anybody with skill to bite because they can make 2-3x that elsewhere.

H1B was supposed to be an answer to the supposed lack of PhDs but was never used for it, it was totally a scam news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13614507 and even major companies like Google lowballed H1B salaries offering them 75% what an American would make with the same skillset.

I work doing home based 'support engineer' tier , just replying to emails, inspecting shitty ruby code all day and triage bug reports and I make $100k USD per year too, plus have 2 paid vacations, plus have a paid home office, plus have all benefits paid 100%.

It really isn't hard

>ITT: lazy murricans want keep job while being lazy

We superpower by 2020.
Just wait.

When the company can get you kicked out of your home you tend to do as your told. But that shit aint loyalty

>THEYRE TAKING MUH JOBS
americans, ladies and gentlemen

I blame Java, Microsoft, Oracle and the DOM.

Great, then you can get outsourced to Pakistanis and Sri Lankans and lose your job too

>It's never been about PhDs it's always been about megacorps offering really lowball salaries and unable to get anybody with skill to bite because they can make 2-3x that elsewhere.
>H1B was supposed to be an answer to the supposed lack of PhDs but was never used for it, it was totally a scam news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13614507 and even major companies like Google lowballed H1B salaries offering them 75% what an American would make with the same skillset.
This tells me that you are not working in the industry. The company I worked for exclusively hired PhDs and sponsored their H1Bs as intended, and a lot of companies get their PhDs from F visa students. Do you know why? Because no American goes to grad school. And not going to grad school for US citizens is a logical choice as they make only marginally less than PhDs which is no big deal if you spend the time you'd spend in grad school actually gaining experience.

So in the end:
>No Americans in grad schools
>No US PhDs
>Companies have to hire recent grad Fs, sponsor their Hs

This is excluding the consultancy companies that exploit the visa type.

>America gains from brain drain of other countries

>Suddenly America reverse the foreign brain drain

>America loses edge

No american goes to grad school? Ok I see you've never been to grad school in the US which is shockingly full of Americans.

Most world grad schools are trash which is why their degrees don't translate into direct accreditation in any Western country. Look at a typical Ukraine grad school it's like first yr undergrad

>No american goes to grad school? Ok I see you've never been to grad school in the US which is shockingly full of Americans.
I'm in grad school, and there's I think 1 or 2 US citizens. This is especially true for engineering, and I know that the situation in quite a few schools is the same (I can only talk about ones I have friends in not some school in Lebanon KS). If you count other graduate studies I'm sure that the balance will tip over to US citizen side.

Every company just circumvents this easily anyway, like Microsoft's Canada campus which they use to import pajeets with PhDs in statistics to do machine learning research. Just open satellite campus somewhere, pay off local gov officials to import immigrants, don't need H1B for research so ultimately H1Bs are just for importing slave labor code monkeys

They're more willing to live in lesser conditions because they come from living conditions that are even lesser.

They also have less of a desire for "fun", so less money to love required.

CMU grad school here, it's capped 20% foreigners. PhD shortage = not willing to pay for them that's all, wallstreet doesn't have an issue hiring mathematicians.

But he hasn't put forth a proposal.

The current legislation is from a Californian democrat

They used to be treated like wizards in their own circles. They were treated like dirt everywhere else. It's a way more respected job today than it ever was.

People didn't even know computers existed until right before they could steal mp3s with them.

Canada gains from this deal though. Companies still continue to make money.

Those companies should offer higher salaries to entice brighter minds to seek out higher education.

The most intelligent people I went to college with (Texas A&M) went into mechanical/petroleum because they were all guaranteed $100k+ to work in Houston with just a bachelor's. Those are the people who weren't even remotely affected by the economic downturn

Well, it's not the same for every school. In a school I know a project that got funding from defense industry has been stalled for 3 years because no US citizen would join and they specifically requested US citizens in the project.

>Minimum wage is fine

Some of these positions require a degree and experience.

No one intelligent or innovative is being pushed down.

I think you just aren't as smart as you think. Intelligent people are being well taken care of by the rich who invest in intelligent people to make them richer

I didn't even mention minimum wage OR say it's ok. That's why I got a degree

And what exactly keeps these companies loyal to US when the cost of operation in other countries gets lower? I don't understand how sending back PhDs that are educated in US helps US companies.

A degree doesn't gurantee good pay. Companies purposefully give unresonable hiring requirements for no pay and turn around and say "We couldn't find anyone" so they hire H1Bs

A lot of Americans know our education is garbage, the others have been brainwashed into thinking we have to support it because the teachers are so underpaid. That's literally the narrative concerning education here.

We know. Most of us won't admit it because we're assholes but we know.

What keeps them.loyal is the money they make from the US. If what you believe is true, then they would already be gone from the country. I don't want to send back PhDs. I want those students to be home grown

Like you said, cost of operations is much cheaper elsewhere, but they make their money here. If they didn't, they would just leave. These companies aren't staying here for no reason. They gain something from being here.

I'm on your side man. I was explaining why those H1B visa people are "cheaper"

>kids don't want to be scientists or engineers

This is 100% wrong. Like completely incorrect in every way imaginable. There has never been a bigger push for science and engineering than there is right now in there very instant. You've got shit like Bill Nye and Neil DeGrasse Tyson being Reddit superstars. I know most of what they say is political trash and pop science, but it's still generating interest in the field. Look at the hipster movement. It's cool to be smart now.

The reason we see so many Chinese and Indian folks in tech is because, well, there are quite literally billions and billions of them. And unlike Mexico, they're actually sending their best to America to get an education and career.

Back to your original statement. I think that if anything, science is far too popular right now. Kids are being tricked into thinking that science is always super fun and awesome because they watched The Cosmos and a few Stephen Hawkings documentaries. Science can be cool, but it's also difficult as hell and very frustrating. I imagine that there are going to be a lot of heartbroken kids who quit studying science because it ended up being too hard. I had a couple of roommates back in college who had this happen to them. One wanted to be a mechanical engineer, but ended up switching to journalism. Another wanted to be a physicist, but ended up getting a French degree. The sugarcoating and popularity science can be a bad thing.

Get fucked, you fascist.

Wew

Although, I gotta say, doing remote devops or systems administration is my goal.

I would argue that teachers are underpaid. If they were babysitters making $8 per hour per kid they'd be making more way more. They don't just babysit tho, they educate.

I would also argue that a lot of teachers suck because the best potential teachers don't teach, they take higher paying, more respected jobs

Your day is coming, pajeet. Just wait.

I'm not saying they're not underpaid, I think they are. It's just that's what the politicians and media and everyone wants us to focus on anytime education issues are brought up. I've wondered about why my professors would even teach technology when an entry level job would pay them much more. I guess you've got to have a passion for it.

We really need education reform in this country if we are to compete, I don't really think any logical person can disagree with this. Good thing our education secretary is well qualified to make such decisions now /s.

I'm not even anti-trump, I think he's crazy enough to get some important shit done.

If they're so hard working, why isn't software and the next big thing being made in India?

>they want to be actors or models and basketball players or rappers

This isn't anything new, it's just more prevalent because of media. You think all kids in the 20s didn't want to be the next baseball star?

>I've wondered about why my professors would even teach technology when an entry level job would pay them much more. I guess you've got to have a passion for it.

Or they just can't cut it. I always heard about economists being lauded, even though they've been in academia their whole life.

Low energy b8

my issue with raising teacher pay is that it shouldn't be a blanket raise which would also reward shitty teachers who are just phoning it in, or worse, taking their shitty life out on their students. before any raise is approved it should include terms to make pay merit based. I say this as an oklahoman where we're dead last in everything related to education. I mean yea a raise would attract and help keep better teachers but, something has to be done about the bad teachers as well

Honestly the new $130,000 minimum for H1-B is a win/win for everyone

Americans aren't shafted for cheap labor
Foreign workers aren't underpaid

pajeets that move to america get paid the same as if they were american

Doesn't help if they have 30+ classroom sizes or kids that don't want to learn.

You neanderthals realize it costs companies more, both financially and risk wise, to hire an international student instead of the American, right? The problem is the Americans are lazy, stupid fucks so it's worth it to hire "pajeet" instead.

that doesn't matter, it's just an excuse for poor teaching. many teachers make it work, get through to students and accommodate large classes. we need to raise the standard instead of blindly accepting a lower standard to cast a wider net

Just an observation:

-The country and world needs IT like never before. Every single business in the US needs it to some degree. We are literally living in the "information age".
-Older people *generally* have a harder time with these newfangled "computers", due to the sheer amount that must be learned from scratch and the reduced plasticity of the fully-formed adult human brain.
-H1B visas are overwhelmingly used for IT jobs.
-Older people overwhelmingly put Trump in office and want protectionist policies, e.g. hate for H1B visas.

So yes, lets stop H1B visas and just mobilize our army of computer-illiterate grandparents to meet the business challenges of the 21st century. Sounds legit. The US will surely maintain a leadership position throughout the 21st century.

The fact is that the demand for IT services is SO HUGE IT HAS OVERTAKEN THE EARTH. If you cant get an IT job its not because of an H1B candidate . ITS BECAUSE YOU FUCKING SUCK.

curryniggers on suicide watch

fuck drumpf
fuck white people
fuck men
fuck patriarchy
fuck christians
fuck the church
fuck heterosexuals
fuck cis scum
fuck hate
fuck haters
fuck hate speech
fuck "free speech"
fuck bigotry
fuck racism
fuck sexism
fuck colonialism
fuck harassment
fuck cyberbullying
fuck discrimination
fuck employment discrimination
fuck housing discrimination
fuck white neighborhoods
fuck privilege
fuck the 1%
fuck pence
fuck priebus
fuck republicans
fuck conservatives
fuck corporations
fuck big pharma
fuck big oil
fuck monsato
fuck haliburton
fuck profit
fuck capitalism
fuck the bourgeoisie
fuck exploitation
fuck slavery
fuck police shootings
fuck school shootings
fuck assault weapons
fuck guns
fuck hunting
fuck meat eaters
fuck destruction of natural resources
fuck global warming
fuck voter id
fuck walls
fuck fences
fuck borders
fuck ice
fuck nationalism
fuck america

>I'm on your side

This is whats wrong with America right now. Just engage in discourse and form your own opinions, which should differ from others in complex ways. Taking a "side" is childish.

SIKE

no, it's because h1b visa holders are essentially indentured slaved, who if they don't satisfy the companys' demands will be sent back to whatever third world shithole they came from

No, no it wasn't, hence why the requirements are ultra low (bachelor's degree). Foreign workers get paid the same as their domestic counterparts, the company actually has to pay more overall when you account for the increased paperwork/visa (~8-10k).