Okay, apparently no one knows about this (or they are just autistic about bad advice others gave them with their builds), so I'll shed the light:
AM4 first launched with "Bristol Ridge" in September 2016. These were laptop chips basically. Only sold to OEMS.
The high end chip, the A12-9800, is about 2x the CPU performance of a Q6600. Not near Skylake or Ivy Bridge, but perfectly capable The GPU performance on the chip is about 25% better than the $150 A10-7890k And you can get an entire system with these AM4 motherboards, ready for a Ryzen 5, Ryzen 3, or Raven Ridge upgrade, with a B350 motherboard, for little more than the cost of windows+hd+ram+case+psu. Which makes the A12-9800 and motherboard you're getting, that can run any game acceptably, only $50 of the cost. Cheaper than an A10-7890k is, let alone the better Bristol Ridge that's only sold to OEMs.
It's a system that's at least around 70% equivalent to the shit $900 builds people post in /pcbg/, but for under $400 and Ryzen upgrade ready.
He is making a new thread for the stuff he has been spamming on pcbg for a while. I don't mind, though, it's actually pretty solid advice if you can take it.
Noah Garcia
Because dumb people skim over it and keep posting their shit value $900 builds with an RX470 while complaining that they don't have enough money for something better when those poor people could get 70% the performance for 1/3rd the money and have an upgrade path for a high end PC for cheap with a little patience at the same time.
Buy a $350 refurbished AM4 PC Then, with the $650 left over you can get a $129 Ryzen 3 when it comes and still have enough money left over for a 1080 when their price drops, or the upcoming Vega, instead of having a RX470/1050 and a 6400 that's roughly equivalent to the Ryzen 3 that just isn't out yet. Or you can wait longer, since you have a machine that can play all the games you want for a year, and wait for 1080s to further go on sale, or RX580s to go on sale, or whatever.
People in /pcbg/ seem to just want people to tell them whatever they want to hear and don't actually want good advice on how to affordably make a future-proof computer. They've already decided they want an EoL 4thread Skylake on an EoL socket and to build it themselves (even though wrecking a refurbished PC is just like building it yourself)
Michael Russell
this is fucking awful advice since many of these boxes have proprietary PSU specs that may or may not have PCIe power and may or may not have the wattage required to drive a processor + graphics card if you try to drop in Ryzen. The boards may not have x16 PCIe slots. They may have the B350 chipset, but that doesn't mean they connected all the ports/slots. OEMs do not want you to buy their boxes and upgrade them; they want you to pay more for a more powerful box, so they do everything they can to limit the cost of the box AND give it no upgrade path.
read the reviews. The box overheats and probably doesn't have room for proper cooling. The quality control is bad and the box also resets randomly. One review points out that he cannot add a GPU because the PSU won't do it. There's a reason that box is refurbished.
OP did literally zero research. Do not trust this advice.
Juan Collins
If that turns out to be the case: you can get a PSU for $40. It's so fucking cheap and good value that that's irrelevant.
>The boards may not have x16 PCIe slots It has an empty one, yep. You can install a dGPU. It even has an M.2 socket that's unused, too.
Good job writing so many things only to have all those things be invalid, tho. It was a nice effort.
Michael Barnes
Not OP, but one'd assume the first thing you'd do with one of those computers is gut it for parts and fit it on your own case with your own PSU and a decent cooler.
Aaron Collins
>get a PSU for $40
Have you ever seen an OEM board? They have proprietary power connectors ALL THE TIME. If you get a standard ATX power supply, there's no guarantee that it will be able to connect to the motherboard.
Nathan Robinson
so now you're paying $400 for a motherboard, hard drive, and windows. Possibly a piece of shit case, provided it can fit a case fan and half decent cooler
ok, if you want to be retarded
Brayden Ortiz
There's only 1 negative review on Amazon about blue screening. Something that'd easily be solved by RMAing but people are dumb and throw stuff in the trash and leave useless reviews instead.
>proper cooling what is a knifeand aftermarket cooler? >m-mommy can you give me more money? I can't afford the build I want but an equivalent one that's dirt cheap requires me to use my brain and do some work.
>more PSU nonsense when you're saving $600, 60%. blah blah You guys are hilarious.
>Have you ever seen an OEM board? They have proprietary power connectors ALL THE TIME. The connectors are standard.
Yep eventually. Depends on budget. Like I said, it's $600 in savings for a decent gaming rig with an upgrade path. You could simply cut a hole in the side of the case and fit a better cooler.
This is one anemic as hell motherboard, bruh. I highly doubt this will even work with a new Ryzen unless HP patches it.
Brayden Clark
But I'm Australian and it's more expensive
Colton Robinson
>1 negative review on Amazon about blue screening If you look at the costco page linked, you'll find the majority of the reviews are 1 star.
>easily be solved by RMAing which is why you're now linking to a refurbished box on Amazon, you understand. Besides, shipping that box back for an RMA would be very expensive and the turn around time probably wouldn't be great.
>what is a knifeand aftermarket cooler? So now I'm hacking a fucking hole in this case I just bought for $400? So I can spend more money to fix the cooling issue the fucking thing has?
>when you're saving $600 You're not saving $600, you're spending $400 not for a computer that MIGHT become a gaming computer by spending an additional $400 minimum for a half decent processor and graphics card. Plus you're gonna need to spend probably $50 on a new power supply, HOPE that it fits into the case (if not another $30 on a case), and you MIGHT have to get new RAM too, since the thing probably only ships with one DIMM. And this is all banking on the shitty HP motherboard not dying at random.
The way you save money on a halfway decent PC is by buying parts from the previous generation, not by buying hot garbage from OEMs.
Besides, you're not saving any money by doing this. You're spending $400 on a motherboard, RAM, hdd, and case. Four items that you're spending ~$100 each on, since the PSU is useless and you're replacing the CPU. I guarantee you that you can get a better price on each of those things AND get better parts to boot if you wait until after the Ryzen launch. If you need a computer right now, you can buy used parts and do just fine.
Parker Ramirez
1TB hd = $50 16GB of DDR4 = $85 case = $30 windows = $110 unless you risk it on kinguin for $25. motherboard = $50 psu = junk since no GPU connectors, unless you plan on going Raven Ridge, but whatever. That's $240, and the APU is worth at least $180. That's $420 and it's $380.
So it's cheaper than you could build yourself, assuming you could even buy an A12-9800 (which you can't)
But the bigger thing is that people say they need a PC now, and that they're poor, and $900 is their budget, and they can only build a shit PC with $900 and skylake/kabylake.
Instead they could get this cheap shit to tide them over and they have a motherboard and DDR4 to use for Ryzen later this year. It makes a fuckload of sense.
At worst you're wasting about $100 now throwing out the "junk" case, psu, and CPU but you save more than that later buy buying a Ryzen 3 and waiting to for a GPU and PSU to be on a really good sale instead of needing it now and paying more to get something immediately when it's not on sale.
I already explained how for $900, and a pretty small degree of patience considering an A12-9800 PC will play any game, you'd end up with something like those $1400-$1700 builds people post.
Would a $250 motherboard be nice? No shit. But these are people complaining about not having enough money and trying to make builds they can't afford which end up being horribly max/minned for poor performance/$.
>I highly doubt this will even work with a new Ryzen unless HP patches it. It's a cheap board, sure, but there's roughly 0 chance Ryzen wouldn't work even though it only lists it supporting the current APUs that are out. Likely scenario is that higher frequency memory won't work. Same socket. Same chipset. Same or less wattage.
Then buy nothing ever.
Jacob Hughes
>You're not saving $600, you're spending $400 not for a computer that MIGHT become a gaming computer by spending an additional $400 minimum for a half decent processor and graphics card. >Plus you're gonna need to spend probably $50 on a new power supply, HOPE that it fits into the case (if not another $30 on a case), and you MIGHT have to get new RAM too Except that extra $400 you spend over a year will result in something far better than dumping $780 on parts today. What's so difficult about that for you to understand?
And it IS a gaming computer. It'll run any game, most of them at 60fps 1080p as long as settings are low. The AMD APUs are extremely capable for budget gaming, an the A12-9800 is the best of them.
Most people outside of the go-ahead-spend-200%-for-20%-better-performance-circlejerk agree that APUs make for good budget gaming rigs and would suggest an A10-7850k machine that costs around $400. But this refurbished PC is cheaper, faster, and AM4 so you can upgrade it to Ryzen making it even greater value than something that's already considered a good value for all but fucktards like you.
>So now I'm hacking a fucking hole in this case I just bought for $400? So I can spend more money to fix the cooling issue the fucking thing has? You sound like a massive pussy. I'm not going to bother responding to anything else there.
Owen Perez
Man those goalposts of yours have a nice set of wheels, now don't they.
Benjamin Carter
Right, don't address the fact that you could get yourself an i5-2500k build and overclock it to like 4.5ghz for less than $400, then add in whatever graphics card.
I mean, if you did that, you could get a good case and power supply right off the bat and not have to worry about the quality of your motherboard, either.
Jack Ramirez
I'm not moving goalposts. Only accounting for the worst case scenarios that are actually possible - most of which aren't and were just nonsense clueless people spouted.
No upgrade path. The HD2000 isn't enough to play newer games. A decent refurbished i5-2500k system is over $450, though you can get shittier ones for cheaper. But yes you could get that and add a GPU if the motherboard and PSU supports it, or replace the PSU. (Don't say any more dumb shit about the PSU "fitting". They're standard sizes)
The A12-9800 for less money is already ready to play any game with needing to add a GPU like on an i5-2500k desktop. But other than that, and the reduced upgrade path (you need a new mobo and RAM, and RAM is expensive), what you said works better than most people's attempt at a budget build on /pcbg/, yes. You could get that $450 refurbished i5-2500k system, and a 1070. For $850 you get a system as good as most $1100-$1300 posts.
Carter Clark
They sometimes do but I have dealt with a lot of OEM products that have standard connectors on non-standard designed boards. As well, you can likely build an adapter or find one online for popular OEM products.
Carson Robinson
Nevermind. Can't find a cheap refurbished i5-2500k desktop. OEMs were sold locked worse chips. So that's actually not something you can do. You can at least find refurbished i5-3570s desktops for around $300-$450 which is good enough. It's just, again, DDR3 and not DDR4. And it's a socket that went away years ago while AM4 is lasting into 2020+.
While I'd say that build is inferior and far less future proof, dropping an RX480 or 1070 and a better PSU into one of those is a great way to make a high end gaming machine for well under $900 non the less. It's just confusing that you'd say that's any sort of counter to what I was saying, or in anyway discounts what I was saying about buying a refurbished Bristol Ridge. You only reinforce the argument I was making. Stupid of you, but I appreciate it.
But that's more work! He can't even cut a hole in his case door. He needs mommy to give him $600 to make everything easy. Getting a high end gaming machine for $800 equivolent to a $1500 one is for suckers.
Aaron Fisher
For few months now A12-9800 + a mobo (a320?) have been sold as a combo package around some parts of the world for 200 eurobucks.
Brayden Smith
Not a bad deal if true. Sure it wasn't an FM2+? I can't find it. I can't even find a price for the A12-9800 or anything since it wasn't sold to people. At least not here in the US.
Kayden Williams
>>So now I'm hacking a fucking hole in this case I just bought for $400? So I can spend more money to fix the cooling issue the fucking thing has? >You sound like a massive pussy. I'm not going to bother responding to anything else there.
I priced out a 2500k build just for you and I didn't even spend time getting the best deals on ebay.
2500k @ $80 Z77 mobo @ $100 8GB 1600mhz ram @ $20
From newegg: Seasonic 500W PSU @ $50 ATX case with 2 120mm fans @ $50 250GB SSD @ ~$80 (this could be more or less, depending on what you go with, there's a Samsung 850 on sale right now) Random cooler of your choosing @ $30 (baseline of Hyper 212)
That's $410, which is cheaper than the system you're shilling, since this one already has a good PSU. That's with some of the parts being brand new, the ones that matter at least.
The point is that if you want to save money, what you are suggesting is a fucking retarded way to do it, and the better way is to join PC buy and sell groups and check ebay every day for the parts you want. I've seen a 2500K sell for as little as little as $45 on ebay.
Regarding your notion of an upgrade path; the way you establish your upgrade path, really, is by buying parts that you can reuse in your future builds. These include: a good hard drive, PSU, and case. RAM is good too, but since we're moving from DDR3 to DDR4, this isn't really possible at the moment. With AMD, you CAN include a motherboard since their sockets are often quite long-lived, but if that's your plan, you should get a GOOD motherboard and preferably an enthusiast chipset (read NOT A FUCKING HP BOARD AND NOT B350).
>The A12-9800 for less money is already ready to play any game It has an OK iGPU, but it's still an Excavator quadcore, which means it's going to get royally fucking thwomped by a 2500K before you even start overclocking. You could get an R9 380 or GTX 960 for ~$100 and be playing games right now with better performance than an A12 would ever manage under any circumstances. There you go, a very capable gaming PC with parts that can be reused to save money when upgrading and you avoid all the baggage that comes with buying a shitty OEM PC.
Matthew Young
That's interesting. Seems like a decent deal. Roughly the price of an A10-7890k for something that's about 20% more performant and can upgrade to Ryzen.
Hell it runs BF1 on ultra textures, medium FXAA, at 35-50 FPS.
Solid as shit for for a sub $350 system. Now for about $425 you can get a Pentium G4560 and an RX470 which is slightly better, but there's just no upgrade path.
That's... just around what I said for the refurbished PCs. What's your point? You need a GPU as well and it has no upgrade path.
But yes you could built that PC, throw in a 1070, and for $800 you have a much more cost effective PC than the stuff on /pcbg/.
Thanks for helping reinforce my point more?
>It has an OK iGPU, but it's still an Excavator quadcore, which means it's going to get royally fucking thwomped by a 2500K Stock, it's not womped hard, and it also overclocks. It's about 84% the performance of an i5-3570k so pretty similar to a 2500k. As bad as Bulldozer and its derivatives are, it's still a 2016 CPU and was as good as Excavator got.
The difference is that you can soon upgrade to a Ryzen 5 on the motherboard that's 2-3 times better than an i5-2500k while the i5-2500k means throwing out your DDR3 (how do you casually overlook the biggest deal here?) to buy expensive DDR4 on top of throwing out the motherboard. Forget the cheap motherboards, that's $100-$150 down the drain in RAM.
But, for the third fucking time: I don't disagree that that's a good build at all. How can you not see this when I keep repeatedly saying it? It only reinforces the point I've been make. The A12-9800 route is a bit better if you can be a little more patient instead of dropping in a 1070 or RX480 right away and play on the decent iGPU on the AMD while waiting for Volta/Vega, R3/R5, and sales.
Aaron Powell
>high end gaming machine for $800 equivolent to a $1500 one is for suckers.
$400 for OEM PC $50 for new PSU $30 for cooler $150 for Ryzen R3 1200X ------- $630, $170 remaining for GPU. $170 GPU = RX 470
$1500 gaming PC????????????????????? no SSD????????? one ram DIMM??????
Angel Ortiz
>buying windows Fuck off OP
Lucas Gutierrez
You missed the part where I said it's capable of running just about any game playably allowing you to wait to grab sales as they come. And it's $380 not $400. And I just got a Season M12II 620watt PSU for $42 Wouldn't be surprised if there's Ryzen + RX580 combo deals, too. Close enough. Maybe need another $50. Still far better than the $900-$1100 pre-tax builds people recommend.
That's just there for fucks that are going to be pedantic like even though they figure out a way to be pedantic anyway
Lucas Reed
>NOT B350 Technically the only difference between B350 and X370 is that the later can SLI/crossfire. And that's it. In practice the situation is bit different, at launch at least, as it seems all the mobo makers have decided to only bring out B350's that have some cheap tier 4 phase design
Gavin Howard
OP is right
Levi King
The A12-9800 is 10-15% faster than an A10-7870K. A 2500K at stock is 30-50% faster than the A10. The 2500K is at least on par with an 8350, so I don't know why you're trying to make the case that an APU with half the cores is going to challenge a 2500K AT ALL.
>Still far better than the $900-$1100 pre-tax builds people recommend.
It's really not that much better. All of the parts other than the APU are second-rate. Reviews show that the system doesn't run well. The PSU can't power a GPU and won't handle an overclock of the APU if you manage to get a better cooler into the case. The RAM is very likely to be one DIMM, which will impact gaming performance since it will be running single channel and is only bare minimum 2133mhz memory to boot.
The better solution is to just buy used parts. You get much better value. However, if you want to double down on the stupidity of buying an Excavator-based system in 2017, you really should opt for something like the combo linked here .
I'll give you that most of the people recommending systems in those pc generals are probably fucking idiots. I wouldn't know, I don't read them. I paid
Jackson Richardson
OP is a total dipshit. Basically the only parts of this computer even remotely worth a fuck are the RAM and mobo, and you can bet that those are just the cheapest shit they could get away with while maintaining basic usability.
William Wood
There is no way that thing is going to run 90w cpus. It will let the smoke out with anything over the 45w it was made to run.
Jaxson Butler
>be my guest, kid.
Autism, ladies and gentlemen.
Cameron Brooks
>gets called a kid for acting childish >UR AUTISTIC
rofl, ok if you really want to drive the point home
Benjamin Foster
Things that could be used for the next build: >2500k and such PSU disks case
> DDR4 PSU disks case
>HP prebuild A12-9800 disks
Caleb Robinson
>hp consumer computer NEVER EVER
Aaron Nelson
I doubt they will release a bios update to support ryzen CPUs
