/Mars/ General

The last Mars thread was pretty good.

We need to continue the last thread. Can Mars survive on just solar or do they need nuclear power? Keep in mind Musk wants to get to 100 people quickly and solar is only like 2/3 as effective on Mars.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY
youtube.com/watch?v=yy7GOO7Y96Y
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Similarity_Index
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Meter_Telescope_protests
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Elon is a cuck.

You could manage with solar, but you'd want nuclear if it were available, that excess heat would have plenty of uses

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I like mars

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more like he just has delusions of grandeur. Running a big-name startup went to his head in a big way.

There is literally zero point in a Mars colony. "Space is cool!" is the only justification for it.

List of reasons to not eventually have trillions of humans covering every vaguely habitable rock in the galaxy:

He's a literal cuck though. Here we have this beautiful planet, it's got just enough heat/cold, water abundant, green, minerals. And this retard wants Mars. He's a cuck!

Except having your name in history
Do you think faggots in 1000 years would be learning about him because he made a car company or made a few rockets?
If he manages to get this to work he will be in the history books for millennia

Not only that but if shit really does go down on Earth for whatever reason Mars at least still has a chance of letting humanity continue on

You have to be 18+ to post on Sup Forums.

>thinking more than a few years into the future is bad
>>>/china/

We got bigger fish to fry at home user. Why is colonizing space anything higher than a "Well, maybe we'll do it in a few million years, if we're really bored" kind of priority?

Considering that people write books about Henry Ford and Werner von Braun, yes, actually, I think he would have a name for himself doing that. Not that wanting fame is a very good reason to do things.

>but if shit really does go down on Earth for whatever reason Mars at least still has a chance of letting humanity continue on
Humans are incredibly adaptive creatures, and we have a huge industrial capacity. Humanity will live even if there's a nuclear war.

>We got bigger fish to fry at home user.
Like what? This?

youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY

Humans will still live on on Earth, but they will never be able to reform society as it is now.
At least on Mars they have the chance to build a proper society

What makes you think that society would be any different from current ones? Especially considering those people are going to draw from current Earth societies, and be in communication with them.

In any case trying to control the way a society evolves never works.

Give me one problem on Earth that can't be solved by technology with in the next 100 years. Nanofabricators can make almost anything you could want. Robots can do all the farming, mining. Hell even quantum Internet connections can eliminate FPS latency!

>Humanity will live even if there's a nuclear war.

This

No matter how fucked up of an apocalypse happens on earth, it will still be an easier place to live than mars. how don't people see this.

Whitey nevva bin on da moown!

We'd be bypassing the rubber-banding effect where earth societies and individuals are not developing evenly.

How many illiterate people will be on Mars? How many people prone to random window-smashing acts of violence and vandalism? How many people with terrible heritable illnesses?

By default astronauts are the smartest, the fittest, the healthiest. How many astronauts ended up homeless street vagrants?

This is a good point. Everyone on Mars will all be in a socialist environment. Medical, dental, food, water, air will all be provided for. I guess you for argue for technocrancy given the skill set.

Look at any developing country
The people have so much power that anytime any kind of authority arises a rebellion that just doesn't like it for what ever reason rises up and causes a several years long civil war undoing any progress that was ever made
If a a nuclear war knocked out all major world powers then society would try to reform but would have that same issue

There's plenty of riches-to-rags stories user. Plenty of captains of industry who squandered their fortunes, plenty of geniuses who descended into madness, plenty of the most promising people whose lives quickly ended in tragedy.

Shit, a big percentage of those homeless vagrants are veterans. They used to be fit, healthy, well-trained men, and then through some combination of bad choices and bad luck lost everything.

Even if we sent our best they are still going to have children that may be messed up.

I'm not sure your point. Wars of independence are often followed by civil wars. We have no context of total world wide destruction. Even the sack of Rome happened in stages.

Because as Carl Sagan said we are facing an endless fronteir and we are so curious. What is out there? I don't know. Let's find out!

Have a cookie.

The whole Elon Musk SpaceX is bullshit

The rockets you see are mostly CGI

The who land on mars shit is already scripted and to be executed over the next 20 years it's the next "moon landing"

The Rovers you see on Mars are actually on a couple of remote islands on earth

The Navy runs the real space programme in conjunction with a few private companies.

If there was a real space race to mars it could result in another war. Hence we're already up there building infrastructure and the civvy show is playing out to keep other countries (Germany desu) quiet.

Why is this dumb faggot wasting months and millions of doubloons sailing to his death off the edge of the world when he could be concentrating on fixing Spain's problems instead?

I fully support scientific research to satisfy our wondering about how the universe works. Thing is that if your goal is science in space, the humans just get in the way. Humans are fragile, need big, heavy life-support systems, and it causes a bit of a scene if you don't manage to bring them home in one piece. You get more science per dollar spent with unmanned missions. They can do anything a dude in a space suit can do, and the lower cost and risk means you can have more of them, so you learn more faster than you would if you insisted on manned exploration.

A Mars colony wouldn't necessarily get us any closer to this goal, it's a shithole that would take forever to make even remotely habitable on that scale.

I'm thinking about moving to New New York but I have some concerns
I heard the price of living was really high (something like 1400 per month+ for an apartment)
and that the inner part of the city is full of ayyniggers that will harrass you on the understreets
I would just consider moving to a nice big crater and becoming a oxygen farmer but my gf doesn't want to

This isn't founded in impeccable science but somehow I feel like there's a lot more things out in the universe that look like Mars or Mercury or Ceres than there are that look like Earth.

That doesn't mean they're bereft of resources, it means we need to perfect our ability to carve little "slices of earth" out of them.

This just isn't true. Our unmanned devices are just not capable of doing what humans are right now. A Mars colony supporting a scientific and colonization effort will be much more effective than drones and probes alone.

Reminder that if the idea of exploring and colonizing space doesn't give you good feels then you're a nigger and don't deserve space anyway
You can stay down here and look at anime tits until you die a useless virgin while they actually make humanity have a real goal and reason in life

sure, i mean what else is the goal of life than to multiply and spread.

but the putting 2 eggs in 1 basket argument is still bullshit because mars and earth are in the same basket.

>watch music video from 50 years ago
>feel uncontrollable murderous rage
this is a unique and novel sensation, thanks

>the guy who sang it died of AIDS
lol I feel better now

I think your post can best be summarized as:
>black people don't like Star Trek

Just isn't true.

Society is like a box of loaded springs and a authority is like a weight on top of the springs
if that weight is removed the springs will be in chaos and good luck trying to get all of those springs back under that weight

Counterpoint:
youtube.com/watch?v=yy7GOO7Y96Y

It depends what your biggest worry is. Asteroid can hit any planet, but having two in the same system increases survivability and increases risk.

asteroids can't cause enough damage to make earth a worse place than mars.

Yes, they are. Up to and including sample return, if you can't put the instruments you need on the craft. And again, greater quantity.

Imagine if we'd had half a dozen Hubble telescopes because we weren't wasting time with the Shuttle, which was basically sending people to space for the sake of having people in space.

>retarded normies say that mars doesn't excited them because "drumpf xd"
I hope Mars does get developed and Earth wiped out so all the normies will fucking die

A guy with a shovel on Mars can do more than any probe ever did on that planet.

That's a good point but I think the dinosaurs disagree and would gladly live in domes on Mars than die.

Learning about Mars is exciting. Visiting Mars, while it'd be cool, is neither practical nor necessary.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Similarity_Index

Mars is like the 3rd most Earthlike planet within 500 light years of us.

You could definitely support an early colony on just Solar.

For large scale colonization and heavy industry on Mars of the sort that you'd need to be long term viable you'd almost certainly want nuclear to provide the base load, and/or orbital solar.
Thing is I doubt you'd be able to launch reactors big enough to be useful for political reasons, so in order to get that or lots of solar power generation you'd need to produce them off world.

>Considering that people write books about Henry Ford and Werner von Braun, yes, actually, I think he would have a name for himself doing that

In 1000 years there won't be any cars left, no one will write about it.

>>A guy with a shovel on Mars can do more than any probe ever did on that planet.
Aside from the fact that it's awfully hard to dig a hole wearing a spacesuit, you're only right if the stuff you're doing on Mars is human habitation stuff. Which we can just not do. Chemical composition, geography, cartography, all this stuff can easily be done with an unmanned mission. Or, as mentioned, the unmanned mission can bring back a few shovelfuls for you, to analyze in your comfy Earth lab with all your modern toys, at your convenience.

>That's a good point but I think the dinosaurs disagree and would gladly live in domes on Mars than die.
Dinosaurs couldn't build domes, we can.

We can also build domes right here on Earth, if there's a major natural disaster. There's no need to go to another planet to protect ourselves from that possibility, even if it wasn't as remote a possibility as it is.

You could literally say that about anything
90% of your entire life is not practical nor is it necessary
Once humanity has fulfilled all basic needs we can start to go into doing what ever we want, and if there are people that want to colonize Mars then just let them do it, its not hurting you in anyway

dinosaurs weren't industrialized tho. if our mammal ancestors could survive the last one so can we.

I guess the benefit would come from a really developed mars. there could be trade and aid in cases like these.

Reddit agrees with you. Basically once they start heavy mining either they have to have nuclear or be producing their own solar panels.

But for 100 colonists I'm not sure if the solar panels we could send with 3 giant rockets would be enough. The plants need power, the humans need power, and even the air needs power!

>Once humanity has fulfilled all basic needs we can start to go into doing what ever we want
we haven't even come close to doing that yet though.

>and if there are people that want to colonize Mars then just let them do it, its not hurting you in anyway
Go ahead. Make sure you use private funds only, with zero taxpayer dollars.

>we haven't even come close to doing that yet though.
The important parts of the world have

Lots of people still ride horses and write books about them though its mainly restricted to a small enthusiast community.
There are even still races that people bet on where a horse pulls a small two wheeled cart behind it though they'd a pale imitation of the chariot races of a few thousand years ago.
Cars are such a useful thing that its hard to imagine a future where they aren't still in regular use, though internal combustion engines will likely be long gone, and owning and driving one yourself may be limited to a small enthusiast community.

>to analyze in your comfy Earth lab with all your modern toys, at your convenience
Being on Earth isn't convenient. The largest observatory in the United States has been abandoned because it was apparently being built on aborigine sacred lands.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Meter_Telescope_protests

>Chemical composition, geography, cartography

But that stuff has been done. We know what it looks like, what the atmosphere is made of. Sure we need more details like the location of ice for a colony, but basically the stuff you are talking about is easy for a probe. Really exploring Mars means deep core samples and driving robots on site with low latency.

So spending 10 gorrilian dollars on increasing the already stupidly oversized military is just fine but doing anything that might even remotely help the world should never use tax payer money?
If you think colonizing another planet won't be helpful to humanity in the long run you're fucking retarded

Earth first

>Sure we need more details like the location of ice for a colony
Yeah, the only things you can't do with a probe are the things you have to do to build a colony. So don't bother with the colony and those things become unimportant.

>If you think colonizing another planet won't be helpful to humanity in the long run you're fucking retarded
No. Colonizing another planet is not the first, second, third, or ten-thosuandth thing on the list of things we should be doing to help humanity.

When we've eradicated hunger, disease, poverty, war, and pollution, then you'll have a case.

They were a lot smaller than we are, needed a lot less food, and tended to live underground to a much larger extent.
In that mass extinction event the survival pattern is really simple, every land animal over a certain size and weight died.
Which is why the only dinosaurs left are from a few lineages of small feathered ones that had low body weight.

Plus keep in mind that its not good if you survive, you need enough individuals in an area to make up a viable breeding population.

But muh Earth and Mars alweys give dah belt to us Belters.

But space research has helped humanity. One quick example. GPS has increased farm yields and improved logistics so less food goes bad. Overall food cost has gone down and quantity has gone up.

I support space research, user. It's just wasteful and pointless to send the humans out into space to do it.

You'll note that none of those GPS satellites have pilots in them.

For the kinds of colony ships Elon wants to send it will probably take a few launches of cargo to Mars to support them.
Right now we're sill dealing with a world where each rocket launch is throwing a bunch of very expensive hardware away, once a good part of that is reusable the whole equation changes.

For supporting a colony it would probably be way simpler to send up a bunch reflective fabric, the material for a central tower, and some salts that would be kept molten for power storage.
That would probably be a lot easier than sending a ton of PV.

>When we've eradicated hunger, disease, poverty, war, and pollution, then you'll have a case.
>We can't do other things until we've finished everything else!
That's how you get society to advance slow as fuck, user

Having a Mars colony defends humanity against a few very, very remote possibilities of planet-wide catastrophe. Their very low probability means they are very low priorities to defend against. And if we want to, there are easier, faster, and cheaper ways to defend against them. (Think that seed vault they have in Norway) In big things as in little things, you tackle the urgent problems first, and leave the remote problems afterwards.

Right, you can never predict all the outcomes of basic research or moon shot projects.
Would we have been able to feed the global population without genetics experimentation earlier in the last century that seemed fruitless?
Would we be having this discussion now if there hadn't been a need for electronics light and small enough to be used in aerospace or the need for networking that could survive a full scale war?

For all we know the solution to hunger is genetically engineered soy grown on Ganymede.

>don't attempt this project until after you've done the impossible

well if you think humanity can't fix its current rather wretched state on Earth, what makes you think that space colonization is a project worth attempting at all?

But those gps sats are controlled locally with a low latency connection from Earth

Elon Musk is South African. The man knows that some problems you just have to run away from.

Expansion with access to new resources allows for larger populations which paradoxically allows for higher standard of living because of more chances to produce people capable of solving the problems.

You don't need low latency. This isn't Counterstrike. We had stored-program computers more than half a century ago. NASA is still controlling Voyager 2 quite well with a latency of almost a day, one-way. You send up a script for what the probe should do, it does it, you get the data back. This does not need a human watching in real time with twitch reflexes.

I don't see the need to fix all of Earth's problems before we go to Mars.

Frankly the Earth doesn't even have that many problems. Wars and conflicts in general are down, population is way up so more people have food.

Those gps sats have to constantly sync with earth based atomic clocks.

A remote control drone needs a low latency connection on Mars. We need quadcopters looking for sources of ice. Mars global surveyor doesn't have the resolution or the ability to check out caves /shadows.

If it's just a matter of cost then a self-sustaining Martian colony would eventually generate revenue rather than consume it.

The United States or Australia are not dependent on constant inputs of resources from England to sustain their civilizations.

>resources
We have plenty of rust and carbon dioxide right here on Earth, user. If it's living space we're after, there's plenty of unused land down here. And its easier, faster, and cheaper to use that space here on Earth, instead of building a small colony on Mars at fantastic expense. The same way that if you're cleaning your room and need more space, you don't rent a shoebox in Antarctica and mail some of your shit there to be stored in it.

Shipping them a bunch of condoms would be cheaper and more effective than expanding onto another planet to provide overflow space.

I don't see what of Earth's problems colonizing Mars fixes.

>We need quadcopters looking for sources of ice.
Only if people are gonna live there. This is circular reasoning. "We have to send people into space!" "Why?" "To research how humans can live in space!" "Why do we need to know that?" "So we can send people into space!"

"Space is really cool!" is a good argument to buy a telescope. It's not a good argument to spend decades and trillions of dollars colonizing another planet.

somewhere along the way the work cuck lost its meaning

This
Of fucking course starting off a colony takes money but eventually you will have a self sustaining nation or nations on Mars making the worlds economy grow

>Shipping them a bunch of condoms would be cheaper and more effective
They won't use them. In some cases it's religious, but figures like Malema and Erdogan flat out tell their supporters "Your wombs are weapons, use them"

>than expanding onto another planet to provide overflow space.
The other planet isn't for THEM, they get Earth. Good luck sailing to Mars in an inflatable dinghy.

>implying they can't follow you
You know India has a space program don't you user?

Do they intend to send beggars into space?

Earth is at the bottom of a deep gravity well and has a lot of political problems that stop you from doing really fun stuff especially now that we've realized that maybe releasing all this carbon that's been sequestered for a few hundred million years may not be that great of an idea.

On the far side of the Moon or on Mars there's basically nobody who is going to complain if you strip mine out hundreds of tons of materials to produce solar panels for orbital installations, or mine sources of fissionable materials to enrich them for use in reactors that will be heading to the outer planets.

>There is literally zero point in a Mars colony.
what about making our spice global disaster-proof?

>not practical
>only 4 months away
It's as practical as going to the moon.

And it's private money so who gives a fuck.

A.) small risk, due to the minuscule possibility of anything on an existential-threat level happening.

B.) Defending against the possibility can be done more easily, more cheaply, and just as effectively buy building defenses here on Earth.

The earth is too small, philosophically.

You can go anywhere within 24 hours. A terrible monoculture is forming.

We need people with distance.

Mate, you are genuinely disabled if you believe that

I've always wondered. What software do you use to get the wallpaper to line up like that on mismatched resolutions?

DisplayFusion for wangblows
Not sure about any for loonix but that probably is dependent on your DE anyway

Sometimes the way to solve problems is to create them first.

You can't say a mars colony wouldn't benefit humanity because obviously we haven't gotten one there yet so you can't possibly know how "useful" it'll be.

what if Martian soil has elements of such purity we can't get on Earth, or elements in states that are easier to process? You could probably make some great batteries from Martian lithium and iron and you wouldn't be fucking up an ecosystem to mine it.

>wangblows
still makes me laugh every time.

The last mars thread.

The only logical next step is to colanize the moon and use that to proppel Physical objects into and beyond our solar system.

Building the rockets and fuel on the moon would take a lot of infrastructure. And you can't terraform the moon so it's pretty pointless when you can just build the infrastructure on a planet that's only 4 months away from the moon instead and one that happens to potentially be transformed into an actual livable planet.

Building is what we do, this will not be the problem.

Producing substinence ultimatly requires the manufacture, or Reverse manufacture of Oxygen and Hydrogen and that is the problem I think we should double effort.

Spasibo.

If a permanent colony is established on mars it will never be isolated enough from us to form it's own unique culture. It'll be hooked up to the earth's internet.

Internet on Mars would never be connected enough to carry over culture
Reminder that even at the speed of light they have a 8 minute delay from us
They would more than likely try to just make mirrors of a lot of websites so that they would be able to use at least some of the internet at an acceptable speed