now that multiple c to j.asm compilers exist, and of course any language really can do this. why not just move a javascript interpreter into the kernel and forget native code entirely
it's the most popular language with the most powerful modern oop opensource codebase.
portability would be solved forever and we can really do what we've been flirting with for years now, this is obviously what we need
browsers are the portal to 90% of average users programs, this can finally end this and make the computing world make sense.
Q2. what about vm overhead! it can never truly be as fast! WRONG!. Infact according to a study by Microsoft a shift to virtual memory protection instead of hardware based irq we can increase speed by 25 - 40% using a conservative 80-90% vm overhead we can actually gain a modest speed increase with our new kernal j.asm interpreter source: research.cs.wisc.edu/areas/os/Seminar/schedules/papers/Deconstructing_Process_Isolation_final.pdf
Q3. Won't this be insecure! WRONG! how often does javascript break out of sandbox today? Anyway. libcurl is written in one of the most insecure and outadted languates ever C, with no garbage collection and shitty manual memory management its practically a joke in the security world; yet libcurl is constantly and exhaustively searched for issues and therefore remains relevant even now source: daniel.haxx.se/blog/2017/03/27/curl-is-c/
so Sup Forums, is it time to dump native code and move everything to the worlds most popular language? I say yes
"SharedArrayBuffer is a component in an experiment to support multithreaded codebases using pthreads in Emscripten. The buffer functions nearly identically to an ArrayBuffer"
btfo
Hunter Johnson
That's neat, but is it standard? Hell, even asm.js isn't properly standardized like JS or wasm. That pretty much defeats the whole appeal of it being JS.
What problem are you even trying to solve with this?
Christian Robinson
when the most popular language on earth with the largest codebase becomes standard cross platform then there are obvious advantages
William Cox
the problem of not even being able to mention a creative idea without Sup Forums calling you a retard because they think literally everything they read on Sup Forums is 100% fact and that real life is memes
Nathan Hall
this
Oliver Smith
Didn't we have this thread yesterday?
Luke Richardson
animetard get back to your containment boards now
Benjamin Adams
we're going tohave this thread every single day until someone disproves me or linux and osx replace their kernels with javsascript
Noah Anderson
theirs nothing wrong with the macOS colonel ty
Ethan Garcia
>6 unique posters before >6 unique posters after Nice
Maybe if you stopped samefagging on a mongolian story quilt website, and actually built this thing, people would care. I fucking love JS, and would love to see that get built, but unless it's either built or would solve real problems for me, I honestly don't give a shit and will happily poke holes in your idea all day.
William Russell
your dumb, dont reply to me
Lucas Hill
>will happily poke holes in your idea all day
go on then lol
Charles Gray
>js is single threaded uninformed tard
Cooper Gomez
Prove me wrong with a standard js feature. People have shoehorned it in, but it's not in the language standard.
Get your shit straight
Angel Johnson
obviously they would use the already developed base to add multithreading to the kernel version of javascript
Brandon Moore
>"""""""""""standard feature"""" >on a language that's evolved over decades >just like how C++ and others get language updates and has for decades
Yeah, this really shows what an ignorant fool you really are. Not responding to you anymore. I pointed out how stupid you are, and there's nothing else worth saying.
Lmao. Imagine not being able to do proper functional programming in C++ after people finally realized that making everything a class was a fucking mistake.
David Perez
>why not just move a javascript interpreter into the kernel and forget native code entirely
I don't think you've written a kernel, or any kernel-level code, before. If you did, you'd recognize why this isn't feasible. JavaScript doesn't have the right semantics to do what a Kernel needs. JavaScript does not have the semantics to represent "write this value to this physical address". It does not have the semantics to inline assembly where necessary either. Beyond this, it does not have a real integer type. All of JavaScript's numbers are double precision floating point, although the V8 engine can handle some operations using native 32-bit floating point numbers. But most consumer CPUs these days have 64-bit instruction sets, so you have to operate on 64-bit pointers. How do you expect to manipulate a 64-bit integer value in a language that cannot operate on 64-bit integers?
You're not asking the right questions here. You keep thinking about performance. Sure, performance is important in a kernel. In fact, you should expect that every single cycle counts, because this is the son of a bitch that has to handle your I/O operations, and you don't want your read or write operation to take any longer than it needs to. But before you can even begin to address questions of performance, you should ask yourself: can my language talk to the hardware in the ways I need it to? The answer, of course, is no. Anything you build here is going to be a hack relying on a lot of assembly and/or C code that your JavaScript code is going to be talking to. At this point, you might as well just use C. Or C++. Or Rust. Even Ada is fine. Use something that was designed for this. Don't try and cut a piece of paper in half with a ball peen hammer.
>so Sup Forums, is it time to dump native code and move everything to the worlds most popular language?
You literally cannot drop all native code. Even the so called "Java OS" I sometimes see dropped into these sorts of discussions relies on assembly.
Asher Baker
>obviously >they Who the fuck is they? Which multithreading implementation are they going to use?
Andrew Williams
wtf
Brandon Lewis
haha I didn't read a single word of this
Jason Lopez
Go take a class on kernel programming. Write an actual kernel, or at least something kernel related, like a driver, or a CPU/IO scheduler or something. Really, just learn what the fuck a kernel does.
Then go look at the specifications for ECMAScript, and tell me if this language is in any way practical for the tasks associated with a kernel.
And when you finally reach enlightenment, you can kindly fuck off with your delusional ideals of running JavaScript in ring 0.
Dylan Lopez
JavaScript isn't even the most popular language
Caleb Hughes
Finally someone with a fucking brain.
Sucks that your post will get ignored because you're a tripfag and tl;dr. You're 100% right though.
James Garcia
didn't read this one either
Gabriel Miller
what about inline assembly in js though even dynamical generated
sorry you wrote all that out only to be outdone by an anime girl once again
haha
Carson Stewart
Have you started building this yet? I think it sounds cool.
Easton Barnes
Who care about the topic. Post more Marie OP
Leo Sullivan
bump
Daniel Wright
>what about inline assembly in js though JavaScript does not support inline assembly. It is not a language feature. You cannot write inline assembly in JavaScript, and have it executed by a compliant interpreter. And even if you could, the shortcomings of JavaScript for the purposes of writing kernels are so great that your program would consist of more inline assembly than actual JavaScript code. You would fail to achieve the portability that you desire.
Fuck's sake, if you want to start proposing a new language for kernel development, you should at least recommend a language actually suited for the task. Rust does the job just well. For fuck's sake, just look at this beautiful son of a bitch:
The kernel is written in Rust, the coreutils are written in Rust, the shell and graphical user interface are written in Rust. There's a little assembly for the bootloader (you really can't get around this), but pretty much everything else is Rust. The only C here is for a GCC and libc port, for those who might want to write Redox OS applications in C.
Lincoln Jones
please quote my psots when you reply to people otherwise i cant tell who ur talking to
Jackson Taylor
Forgot.
Ayden Bailey
the kernel could be written in c and run a ring 0 JavaScript interpreter as is here:
>The behavior of some programming languages - most famously C and C++ - is undefined in some cases.
hmmmm
Jackson Anderson
Just fuck off and kill yourself already. Your stupid idea is retarded and uninformed.
Zachary Davis
Okay?
Grayson Rogers
tell me why in your own words
Grayson Morgan
Yet C, C++, and especially Rust still manage to catch many more errors at compile time than Javascript can.
Nicholas Nguyen
c and c++ are litteraly famous for undefined behaviours yet you meme javascript as being bad 'because dynamic typing'
Xavier Watson
Didn't you read anything Ruby said? As a kernel programmer I can confirm that he is 100% fucking correct. Oh that's right, you didn't read any of it, you just "tl;dr lol"'d through all of it. Kill yourself.
Gavin Sanders
you cant just piggy back off of the one intelligent poster in this thread and excpect me to respect you lol
*beats u up
Isaac Brown
I also don't understand why you'd think js would bring any kind of improvement
Michael Jackson
Why do you conveniently ignore it though? He's right. So fuck off and delete your thread already.
Jason Bailey
>that image how is that even acceptable?
Kayden Johnson
1. true absoulute super portability between all operation systems
2. harnessing the pwoer of 10 billion pajeets because javascript is the worlds most popular language with the most development attention
3. pissing off manchildren on Sup Forums
you're too retarded to astertain if he is right or not, so you dont count
Joseph Bell
Avatarfagging is against the rules.
Nicholas Nguyen
it's not avatar use if more than one person itt are posted marie rose which the moderators can confirm
Luis Robinson
Why are you so autistic?
Isaiah Williams
>true absoulute super portability between all operation systems That's not exclusive to js, mind as well just use Java then. At least it won't do the dumb shit you see in my picture Your other two answers aren't actual arguments
Nolan Evans
Or you could write the kernel in C, and let JavaScript stay in ring 3, with the rest of the user-land applications.
Isaiah Peterson
we're moving it to ring 0 for 30% speed increase
Joshua Parker
tumblr/erp tier retard
Lucas Perry
not an argument
Justin Wilson
Running in ring 0 doesn't improve speed at all. All it does is allow it to execute privileged instructions. It is exclusively for the kernel to do things like swapping out page table entries or talking to the hard disk.
Did you even read the paper? It doesn't prove what he said wrong at all
Josiah Gomez
"hardware based isolation incurs non-trivial performance costs up to 25-33% and complicates system implementation"
this thread is for retards only please stop replying
Jeremiah Fisher
I want to FUCK Marie Rose !
Dylan Sanchez
What does that have to do with the role of ring 0 and your perceived performance increase of moving software into it
Easton Lopez
>this thread is for retards only please stop replying How fucking retarded are you exactly? How about stop conveniently ignoring the people who are actually making good arguments against you?
Are you basically admitting that what you're trying to convince people of is fucking stupid?
Justin Gutierrez
seriously? we are removing trap interupts , switching to ring 0, and switching VM tables from everything
hardware based isolation, protection rings ect is a non-trivial performance cost.
but that wasn't a good argument and my paper proves me right
Bentley Johnson
It actually is an argument.
Mason Brooks
not an argument
Evan Ward
Marie is an overrated coal burning whore.
Aaron Flores
delet this / not an argument
Gabriel Gomez
wtf delet this her chest isn't that big
Jordan Campbell
>error you cannot delete a pos tthis old sorry
Mason Collins
> coal burning whore. Nothing wrong with that if she's still young and pretty. Only makes my chances higher.
Parker Baker
gross gtfo out of this thread
Hudson Scott
Code campers are cheap. That's all you average MBA middle manager cares about. When they need something to actually work, they'll just hire an outside consultant.
Wyatt Thompson
>When sleeping women wake, mountains move Are they trying to say that all women are fat?
Jaxson Carter
and now he's spouting pol memes fucking crossboarders