> The whole Mir hate-fest boggled my mind - it's free software that does something invisible really well. It became a political topic as irrational as climate change or gun control, where being on one side or the other was a sign of tribal allegiance. We have a problem in the community when people choose to hate free software instead of loving that someone cares enough to take their life's work and make it freely available.
> I came to be disgusted with the hate on Mir. Really, it changed my opinion of the free software community.
> I used to think that it was a privilege to serve people who also loved the idea of service, but now I think many members of the free software community are just deeply anti-social types who love to hate on whatever is mainstream. When Windows was mainstream they hated on it. Rationally, Windows does many things well and deserves respect for those. And when Canonical went mainstream, it became the focus of irrational hatred too. The very same muppets would write about how terrible it was that IOS/Android had no competition and then how terrible it was that Canonical was investing in (free software!) compositing and convergence. Fuck that shit.
>but now I think many members of the free software community are just deeply anti-social types who love to hate on whatever is mainstream
William Thomas
bump
Thomas Gonzalez
counter-culture in tech has become cancer >stop using what works!!!! >muh license!!!!
Austin Kelly
this.
Ayden Jenkins
As a general statement, he's not wrong. However, there were serious issues concerning mir, and it fragmenting the linux desktop. Graphics drivers under linux were shit under linux when Xorg was the display server. Imagine how bad the situation would be with two different display servers.
Jaxon Rivera
>now I think many members of the free software community are just deeply anti-social types who love to hate on whatever is mainstream this
>However, there were serious issues concerning mir, and it fragmenting the linux desktop Also this
Carson Collins
No, you are writing free software to improve yourself, just man up bruh! >tfw this reminds you of modding communities >free modifications distributed at large and it gets shat on I don't even know why anyone would be surprised 2bh, free software community is eating itself out, microcock must be loving this.
Caleb Rogers
>shove deeply unpopular software into every nook of the linux world because of your gigantic install base and army of derivative distros >don't listen to criticism about anything, ever >get upset when people hate you
Maybe we can break down Poettering with a shitpost campaign next.
Luis Perez
This is such a fucking retarded perspective.
I don't hate Windows because it's mainstream. Jesus christ you think I do what I do based on what's popular? Do you think I'm some airheaded bimbo?
I don't like the direction Windows has gone beyond Windows 7, plus, I don't want a fucking botnet.
The only good thing I have to say about Windows at this point, which is PRETTY much the only fucking reason I use it still is because .exe files.
Andrew Reed
Thinking that a statement made about "many members" is discredited by your existence is also a retarded perspective.
Daniel Ramirez
Your perspective is retarded
Logan Gomez
>after almost 10 years of being wrong and nearly destroying the ubuntu use experience, Mark uses the SJW's infamous virgin card
Jordan Murphy
The problem is that Mark here is using integralist freetards(an issue that actually exists, mind you) as an excuse to not address his own errors and faults. It's easy to say that Mir failed because the community is mean, a little harder to admit that it failed because it's just redundant with Wayland.
Joseph Fisher
He's 100% right
Tyler Jackson
He's absolutely right.
Dominic Rivera
>I want to run things >When people want me to put my own ideas aside for the greater good, that makes me angry >This is not my outsized ego, it's a problem with "free software"
Anthony Perez
Oh come on user-kun, you can't guess what the other person is feeling or thinking. Stop projecting and accept that you are a very ungrateful person.
Justin Wilson
This user is retarded.
Nolan Cooper
Ok Mark, will do
Joshua Gonzalez
>Having head so deep into own ass not to realise his NIH syndrome was going to set back the Linux desktop for years again and create a standards wars where there was none because people already agreed to move to a single new modern project >"Wah wah people are irrationally mad at me and hurt muh feelings cos they jealous, not because I'm a huge manbaby with ego issues that cannot accept criticisms"
Xavier Edwards
Thank heavens for the private sector, shuttleworth and ubuntu have done more for linux than the combined anti-might of the linux "community" trying to keep it autistic and shit for their gay CS dropout IRC circlejerk club. What matters isn't gay suicide-tier 1970s software politics but whatever works best and fastest.
Jayden Bennett
>fragmenting linux user base is bad >having only one option is bad Pick one you neck beards.
Michael Nguyen
>Autism, the post
Thomas Martinez
There's no such thing as "having options" and "giving people a choice" when your product is completely dependant on corporation's goodwill to write drivers for their highly specialized hardware, and there's a chance that they might say "fuck this gay linux shit" if the community made it harder for them as we're already stretching it thin with Wayland.
We're at the point where haing mainstream accelerated 3D on Linux plus a modern screen server that's not an unmaintainable blob of 20 years old spaghetti code is *almost* viable but this retard almost blew it just becuase his delusions of grandeur made him think he could succeed where not even Microsoft could with all their billions, the purchase of the most famous and prolific phone manufacturer and their army of shills.
Adrian Gomez
But Mir wasn't really mainstream, it was just Canonical blowing their load on their userbase and wasting a bunch of time with creating competing standards. Same thing with Unity, really.
Thought the level of hate was probably a bit much considering what it was.
Nolan Flores
>this retard almost blew it just becuase his delusions of grandeur made him think he could succeed where not even Microsoft could with all their billions, the purchase of the most famous and prolific phone manufacturer and their army of shills
Implying Shuttlecock didnt do it in the hope of Canonical owning core components of the Linux ecosystem (upstart, mir) and thus being the unchallenged top dog over Red Hat
Eli Martinez
Why are RH employees so much more kawaii than Canonical butches?
Matthew Gray
>it's bad when canonical does >it's good when intel, nvidiea, and pals do it with weyland
Jeremiah Jackson
Shut the fuck up Mark
Hudson Scott
Did you miss the intense bitching directed at intel and nvidia?
Charles Foster
Don't fucking talk to me fuck stick.
Ian Gonzalez
>Unity7 packages will continue to be carried in the archive, I know there are quite a few people who care enough about it to keep it up to date. I expect it will be in universe for 18.04 LTS. so they will have to keep all the Unity hacks in gtk3 and GNOME apps. thus Ubuntu GNOME will still suck. (besides being out of sync with GNOME's release cycle)
clean re-base on Debian's gtk3 and GNOME 3 and delaying the release by a month would make Ubuntu GNOME great again.
Levi Moore
Open Source Tea Party reporting in after victory
David Johnson
>it's bad when hardware companies all agree to support a new standard in Wayland >it's good when Canonical does their own special snowflake thing, wasting millions and compromising the progress of GNU/Linux
>Graphics drivers under linux were shit under linux when Xorg was the display server. Imagine how bad the situation would be with two different display servers. not bad at all. here's some actual X.org dev: >The world in 2017, however, is a very different place. KMS provides us truly device-independent display control, Vulkan and EGL provide us GPU acceleration independent of window system, xkbcommon provides shared keyboard mechanics, and logind lets us do all these things without ever being root. GBM allocates our buffers, and the universal allocator, borne out of discussions with the whole community including NVIDIA, will soon join the family. >Mir leans heavily on all these technologies, so the change is a bit less seismic than you might think. Even this month, one of the Mir developers fixed display of cross-GPU imported buffers in KMS - thus for Mir, Wayland, and X11 - and after he landed the fix in the kernel, we continued to discuss future API changes around this. From this point of view, nothing changes, because we all share the same bedrock infrastructure, borne of X.Org's incredibly long-sighted view that it had a duty to make itself replaceable.
John Hernandez
>It's easy to say that Mir failed because the community is mean, a little harder to admit that it failed because it's just redundant with Wayland. so who's going to tell Google that their own display servers for Android (SurfaceFlinger) and Chrome OS (Freon) are redundant?
Adam Ward
Android and ChromeOS are not supposed to be inter-operable with standard desktop GNU/linux
Christopher Martinez
He's right, I wouldn't make free software. Faggots don't deserve it
Justin Miller
sounds like a more severe fragmentation than Canonical ever planned
Dylan Fisher
Fuck Linux tbqh. I'm switching to Apple for all my devices.
Go pay more money to your vaporware products like neo900 a dragonbox pyra that take years to develop and will be vastly outdated if they ever do come out because the community is filled with assholes
Noah Smith
Canonical could have just had their own closed linux-based desktop with blackjack and hookers and Mir would have been perfectly fine for it. Trouble came when they started pissing on everyone else's cheerios and sabotaging mature projects and standards that the community begrudgingly agreed for fucking once to support.
Samuel Lewis
>Shuttlecock heh
Gavin Ramirez
It's a community full of bitter nerds who think they were born knowing it all about Linux and absolutely shit on any new person trying to join the community
Grayson Edwards
Unless it's a girl, then they waddle into themselves trying to help her or """""her"""""
Elijah Mitchell
bullshit, see Canonical actually contributed for some new sane bedrock infrastructure after X.Org Google did no such thing.
Nathaniel Brown
He's full of himself and won't accept that his decisions were hated for a reason.
>Ubuntu Phone Fail >Ubuntu TV Fail >Unity 7 Fuck-all development for years, based on Compiz which also had fuck-all development >Unity 8 Fail after fuck knows how many years >Mir Waste of time; Wayland could do this but he didn't give a fuck >Snaps Confined to Canonical, as usual
Shuttleworth let his ego take over and he only has his piss-poor decisions to blame. Trying to blame the community when they were telling him what was wrong just shows he still can't accept he was wrong.
I used to respect Mark. "Fuck that shit" to coin a phrase.
Ryan King
Mir did not "do something invisible really well" Neither does wayland by the way. The hate on either was not rooted in it being popular, it was rooted in a split in focus and that there then was two unusable projects instead of one functional display server.
The second part of the hate came from the lack of information on the subject. A lot of users don't know or understand how it works, but they notice when stuff that worked on X is now not working.
As for the hate on popular things, I assume he means unity. Unity made a lot of bad decisions, very similar to what windows. Customization is made hard. Hotkeys are hard to change, some of them break your system if you do so. The launcher was slow, took up a lot of screen space and on top of that, it also sent queries to amazon so you could get ads. It took them a long time to implement basic features in the window manager.
It did have some nice features I haven't seen in other desktop environments. I really liked the short and long keypress for the launcher. If something should be accessible to new users, giving them a quick overview of the hotkeys is definitely the way to do that. The dock thing worked a lot better on a single screen, but I didn't personally like it. But I think it was good that it was there. Everybody could instantly tell that you used ubuntu and given the constraints in the hotkeys, you could most likely use another computer that ran unity.
I cannot say the same for KDE, gnome or the the billion other alternatives. But for me, unity was an overall setback. If they had spent as much time on improving one of the existing DE's, something great might have come from all this.
Matthew Harris
That's what happens when you fall for the Linux desktop meme
