Mark Shuttleworth

>tfw this cunt made Desktop Linux lose 5 years of progress with Mir/Wayland split for no fucking reason

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youtube.com/watch?v=zK-30442RII
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

fuck this guy. this is why we need to fork Darwin.

>Desktop Linux lose 5 years of progress

Damn, you're back to 1998 now?

I don't get what redeeming quality does Ubuntu have for it to be so popular.

Support.

I'm talking about regular users, that don't use paid support.

Ubuntu is kill. Allahu Ackbar.

>implying that this split was responsible of something
Wayland it's fucked anyways.

He's talking about free support from the community, and the OS itself supporting a lot of hardware better than most LiGNUxes OOTB, you moron.

community support. they have a large active forum where you can usually find an answer to your problem.

>He's talking about free support from the community
Arch has better support for example (the best wiki, forum, IRC)
>and the OS itself supporting a lot of hardware better than most LiGNUxes OOTB
But that's fucking false.

I use Ubuntu for my servers because it has good tutorials.

And that's also why I have it on some desktop machines.

>best wiki
Lots of shit are broken in the articles.
>best forum
The kind of forum that likes to scream RTFM and masturbating to ponies
>IRC
Lel.

>But that's fucking false.
but it's not. OOTB it ships with tons of proprietary blobs and shit. latest ubuntu LTS played well with my skylake machine that has an nvidia quadro in it. very little tinkering needed, and optimus was working nicely in a couple of minutes. latest slackware was fucked on this box, latest opensuse was fucked on this box too.

>Arch has better support for example (the best wiki, forum, IRC)
no one said arch's wiki isn't the most stellar LiGNUx faq/help resource, but utubnu does have fantastisch documentation and community support in the form of wikis and forums as well.

What is broken exactly?
Competent people don't need tutorials, only manuals.

Same here. Arch has some nice tutorials too but Sup Forums taught me I'd become a fedora-tipping neckbeard edgelord if I use it so I'm scared. Ubuntu is linux for human beans®

>but it's not. OOTB it ships with tons of proprietary blobs and shit. latest ubuntu LTS played well with my skylake machine that has an nvidia quadro in it. very little tinkering needed, and optimus was working nicely in a couple of minutes. latest slackware was fucked on this box, latest opensuse was fucked on this box too.
But a lot of distros have the latest kernel.

and just when Unity was finally getting sort of good
fuck him, install Mint
or just go back to GNOME 2 days and install Ubuntu MATE

do you only use libre kernels? ubuntu kernels are modified a bunch.

wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/FAQ#Kernel.2FFAQ.2FDebuggingMainlineBuildsUbuntuDrivers.Do_mainline_kernel_builds_include_Ubuntu_specific_drivers.3F

>Competent people don't need tutorials, only manuals.
That's the excuse to don't write proper documentation.

I'm not a sysadmin. And I don't intend to become one or hire one. So I'll stick to my tutorials.

Libre? No. But not tainted by Mark Shuttlecock ones.

Not really. Nobody gave a flying fuck about Mir in the first place, Wayland stalled because of drivers (Nvidia) and lack of program support. XWayland is still a disaster btw

he's a goddamn astronaut dude. have some sensitivity. we may not understand why he does what he does, but i'm sure it's for good reason. there's so much bigotry against spacemen on this board it's unbelievable.

youtube.com/watch?v=zK-30442RII

>Install it
>Normie friendly UI out of the box
>Drivers mostly work out of the box
>Even a grandpa can use it

>(((Kike Shekelworth)))
Obvious CIA plant to destroy GNU/Linux ones and for all.

That's a funny way to spell Red Hat.

All these threads bashing Ubuntu, Unity and Mark while praising GNOME and Red Hat at the same time really tells you which PR team is posting right now on Sup Forums

for starters it has minimize/maximize buttons by default despite what GNOME devs think.
>implying there is something worth destroying in the Linux desktop.

I'm the guy from the other thread that said they have a 50/50 Ubuntu/RHEL split at work.

I'm the reason we're using Ubuntu rather than CentOS on those half, mostly because the packaging situation on RHEL sucks. Ancient packages, RPM being a pile of crap, and so forth.

That said EL6-7 always tends to break in the same consistent ways, while Ubuntu breaks in new and interesting ways with every release. I remember Apparmor being configured OOTB to not let you write tcpdumps anything but the / filesystem.

This tradeoff is worth it because Ubuntu actually keeps their goddamn repos up to date with upstream, and we use a configuration management scheme that could best be described as "oppressive".

Blast him with piss.

(He likes it,)

seriously. red hat is shit for the desktop. gnome is shit for the desktop (without a bunch of unofficial extensions at-least). if we're gonna shill a distro with corporate roots, opensuse is the one, and at-least they default to KDE and configure it to be nice and clean for end users.

Way to make it political, guys.

Why don't you use Arch on your enterprise system that requires high reliability, user :9?

The thing that Shuttlecock ignores here is that Mir was literally launched based on a pack of lies about Wayland. He also has yet to answer for Ubuntu's (slowly stopping, thank fuck) history of reinventing the fucking wheel.

Wayland is gonna be the new standard? Let's post a bunch of stupid lies about it and make our own thing :^)

Everyone wants to kill sysvinit? Let's make our own thing that's used by literally no other distro :^)

Shuttlecock holds up his unique shit as if its uniqueness makes it valuable. Ask anyone who owned a cellphone prior to standardizing on USB/Lightning how much they enjoyed uniqueness for its own sake.

Why is Wayland fucked ?

What happened to Linux being about choice you hypocritical asshole?

Or that only applies when it benefits your corporate interests? So when someone builds software that competes with a Red Hat technology they are reinventing the wheel and have NIH syndrome, right?

Upstart is bad, but systemd is good?
Unity is bad, but GNOME is good?
Mir is bad, but Wayland is good?

You are not fooling anyone with your double standards, you FUD spreading faggot.

Mir is a much better choice than Wayland though.

Decent standards are better than fragmentation that's not practically superior, yes.

Upstart had NO ADOPTION OUTSIDE OF UBUNTU. Mir has NO ADOPTION OUTSIDE OF UBUNTU.

You faggots will yell and scream when other companies don't follow industry standards just to be different, but because muh loonix, it's okay? Fuck you.

Systemd won because it was better than Sysv and actually had broad buy-in.

GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.

Wayland won because it has broad buy in.

>muh outdated packages
RHEL/CentOS/OL, Suse and Debian Stable are fine you fucking nigger, it eases package distribution that does not have to rely on the main repositories. This is partly why Android, Windows and macOS have so many applications.
Linux has a bad problem of packages breaking after a short amount of time, which does not happen as often in those distros.

Android, Windows, and macOS don't use packages in the same way Linux distros do you collossal superfaggot quadruplenigger. If not for the Linux community's autism about compilation, we'd have download-and-run as the default on the desktop there too.

social inertia
PPAs if you don't mind running code you cannot trust

also it has a really easy installer that works most of the time
and unity got actually kinda polished over time

And I expected niggers to know that you can double click a fucking deb or rpm or whatever your gay package extension is to have it installed in your system, requiring only root password.
Kill yourself.

Meanwhile, I can grab a random-ass EXE installer and it'll work on most versions of Windows that ever existed.

Package managers are cancer.

>Decent standards are better than fragmentation that's not practically superior, yes.

Thanks for proving you have no shame in being an hypocritical asshole.

>Upstart and Mir had no adoption outside Ubuntu

Because they were solutions made for Ubuntu needs, duh.

But I get your point if you dare to develop a solution outside of Red Hat system ecosystem you will get fucked, Because Linux, just like Windows it is owned by one company. I am pretty sure that would encourage all those young developer who want to contribute to open source projects.


>GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.

GNOME is a pile shit, even now more people are using Unity than GNOME, it hasn't won anything except making people flee to Windows.

Meanwhile, I can grab a random-ass .deb installer and it'll work on most versions of Linux that ever were relevant.

You are cancer.

literally nothing is stopping people from making .exe installers for linux either actually

Well, they are all good.

Except for gnome.

install debian

Why the FUCK are applications distributed in packages anyway? I thought it would be for some shit like stopping the user from running it in case the shared libraries arent exactly the same as the ones the application has be compiled for.

posting here to express my contemplation for those digits.

well that's just one part
but third-party developers should be able to either package their own libraries and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH in a startscript or link everything statically

...

Except for the community and the MUH OPEN SORES fags (that literally just wget + make + make install anyways).

Disk space is cheap, nobody cares about keeping multiple different library versions around anymore. One of the few things Windows did right.

I don't think so, the "community" of autists would have found another reason to argue about and go in circles.

>Because they were solutions made for Ubuntu needs, duh.

And nobody needed those solutions but Ubuntu, which is why the rest of the world who weren't special snowflakes settled on X/Wayland.

>and actually had broad buy-in.
Because RHEL pushed hard for it, and everything started to depend on it.

>GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.
GNOME didn't win shit, and it looks like shit. Ubuntu is only coming back to GNOME because Canonical was getting lazy.

>Wayland won
It hasn't. Not yet. People are very cautious about it.

sadly gnome is absolute garbage though
how the fuck do they expect computer-illiterate users to ever be able to use that thing?

I hope wayland wins. It looks like a much better choice.

Red Hat initially used and supported Upstart FYI. Systemd not only was better as an init daemon but it also covered more of the system so it's what they went with.

>Mir is bad, but Wayland is good?
Mir was announced a year after wayland had its first release. Wayland had been in the works for 4 years before that. Canonical invented some bullshit reason for needing another display server and tried to force it down everyone's throats. The whole thing was fucking retarded. Mir and Wayland aren't even directly comparable. Mir is like they created an entire other X. Wayland only covers a small portion of the functionality of Mir. Wayland is like a decentralized X while Mir is centralized. Mir gives Canonical the complete control over the Mir protocol standard so it's terrible for user choice.

FUCK YOU RACIST AMERICAN ASSHOLES

YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS THAT AN AFRICAN MAN MARRIED TO A STRONG BLACK WOMAN MADE A BETTER OS THAN YOU

YOU WANT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT AMERICAN

FUCK YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!!!!

Seconding this. Kinda curious

It also looks like a much bigger pain in the ass to use.

Seconding this. Kinda curious

Seconding this. Kinda curious

>What happened to Linux being about choice you hypocritical asshole?
That's a lie perpetrated by dumbass fanboys to attract stupid people to it for god knows what reason

Linux was never about choice

>Disk space is cheap
RAM is also cheap, why aren't you using 512GB RAM? Get with the times and stop complaining about bloat, luddite.

bump

it actually tries to be usable

Seconding this. Kinda curious

Seconding this. Kinda curious

The best wiki belongs to Gentoo, you knob.

SimplyMEPIS was the GOAT. Easy install before Ubuntu. One click install of drivers before ubuntu. Everything before Ubuntu. Pro-level tools built in. 1 click samba. God, I miss that lean little Debian KDE puppy.

when it started it was just a pretty average distro that was more usable, polished and ready-to-go requiring less configuring and knowledge of linux.

unity was a monumental fuckup. their version of GNOME was pretty nice but it wasnt polished to the point of perfection. if they couldnt even do that it seems futile to me to try and create an entire shell, display server etc. the whole convergence / ubuntu on phone and tablet was a pipedream as well.

they shoulda just stuck with ubuntu gnome as it was in the beginning and make apps for mobile that give you some added functionality for your desktop install. maybe something like handoff on OSX for android, if that's possible. idk, anything, just a little app as a marketing gadget maybe, a whole new OS was never gonna work.

shame they're switching to gnome 3 rather than something like mate. can't stand it.

>thinking that desktop adoption of an OS has something to do with anything other than video games
on average the household gamer is the "computer wiz" who fixed problems. this is because hes the one that has to figure stuff out on his own when a certain game wont run

microsoft knew this in the 90's, thats why they created directx and thats why most home pcs are windows

father gaben knows this, but hes fighting an uphill battle

once you understand this fact youll have a better understanding of how to help people adopt linux

It's Debian that pretends to have a company backing it like Red Hat. Debian is a great Linux, and used to be vastly superior to anything coming out of the Red Hat camp.

Unfortunately, Canonical has completely screwed the pooch on their stewardship of...pretty much everything, really. Anything they've done on their own they've botch, from Unity, to Upstart, to Mir, to Snap, to their stupid fucking phone stuff, the list goes on. Stuff coming out of Red Hat actually matters because they have their shit together and make mad bank off of enterprise, the same sorts of people who hire Linux people in droves.

You want to know why systemd and Wayland are everywhere except in hobbyist distros? Because Red Hat actually has clout. On the other hand, I guarantee you that the most recent round of Canonical layoffs won't be the last.

FUCK DRUMPF AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

And Miguel de Icaza is far more responsible for 20 years KDE/Gonme split

>upstart hjad no adoption outside of ubuntu
Fedora used upstart for some time

>wayland won
Wayland still hasn't won anything.
I better prefeer a integrated solution if that means that ubuntu become more than a GNU/Linux distro and more like the product that Canonical wants rather than being RHEL variant number 214324928349820934
It's not like that the linux panorama is different. All distro are somewhat incompatible one with others.

Why?

Gnome won.

WE

Unity was the bigger problem. Canonical should have completely ignored tablets and phones and focused on making Ubuntu the single best desktop OS of all time. If the past five years of development had been focused on that they would be beating Windows 10 now.

You would be bitching because Canonical broken all compatibility with other linux distros.

I was born in 98

I was unironically looking forward to the Ubuntu phone

>desktop linux

this distro was what started me on gnu
accidentally removed windows in a time before i had access to the internet

Is it so wrong to ask if Mark can be the boss of just a few things? Red Hat has to decide everything? Hating africans is racism you know..

le bait

Same. I just waited for the devices to become available again.

That joke is making a false analogy argument because RAM is expensive. 500gb or RAM costs much more than 500gb of HDD or even SDD space.

You realize you can just download a .sh file which is basically equivalent of an .exe file? That's exactly how some software, for example games from GOG, are distributed. And those will successfully install on every distribution. Problem is they don't usually check if you have necessary dependencies to run the installed software.

>fragmentation
FYI that's a stupid buzzword that Apple invented to describe the Android user base using several different versions at a given time.

Then people in the tech world absorbed the buzzword and started using it to describe the conundrum of having different choices. Choices are hard!

>There are too many Linux distros. Linux suffers from fragmentation!

People in tech did the same thing with "ecosystem". Apple uses that word to describe their tightly controlled App store library and "ecosystem" makes that sound like a good thing.

>Oh don't you want to preserve this lovely *ecosystem*? We make sure that evil unapproved software can't be installed on your hardware.

It's fucking cancer and tech people are just lapping the shit up.

Not that it matters.

>FYI that's a stupid buzzword that Apple invented to describe the Android user base using several different versions at a given time.
Not so much that as having so many models that were sold with a back-level Android and were never going to be upgraded because the maker didn't care.
Even so-called "top of the line" models. No upgrades were planned, ever.
From a developer's point of view it's very depressing. Maybe half of your potential customers will never be able to use your product. Add that to having to support a half-dozen different releases just to cover the "current" models.

You're an idiot. Fragmentation is bad. It's not because choices are hard; it's because it is extremely inefficient and lowers interchangeability.

It works

kek, underrated

Familiarity, comfort.