Do programmers even make good money? Most of them just seem like normal middle class dudes only fatter

Do programmers even make good money? Most of them just seem like normal middle class dudes only fatter

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yeah you can earn a lot if you're good

Yeah you can earn up to £90K a year I believe.

Most good programmers do not give a shit about what they look like. They'd be wearing t-shirts and shorts if the dress code allowed that.

If you know what you're doing yes. I know some that are making 70k right out of college. But you need to work for a good company. And be good enough to get promoted quickly to separate yourself from the billions of pajeets working for next to nothing. They already killed freelancing wages it's only a matter of time before entry level programming positions pay minimum wage.

But is it worth it when the jobs are in meme cities where a cup of coffee is like $10

Before I took this everyone made it sound like programmers were on par with engineers and entrepeneurs

Probably, depends what/where you wan't to go in life.

From my experience they are but there is way less quality control than with engineering.

Are you retarded? Senior engineers make 100k to 150k in Silicon Valley.

You actually thought engineers made more than 250k on average in any field?

They make way more than that. I make $140k working remote for a Bay Area tech company with my salary adjusted for my Midwest location. My co workers are making $200k+

>$150k
>in the valley
So...just like $50k any where else?

Your claim is quite literally instantly disprovable using any verifiable source.

senior engineers make way more than that my dude

$100k is starting for silicon valley

t. graduated with CS degree in silicon valley

We'll you don't have to believe me, but you can look on Glassdoor. Look up the big San Francisco cloud.

Yeah that's what I said, 100-150k.

Closer to 80k.

They make good money, but to be good enough to be hired as a programmer, you have to be so autistic that you've ascended beyond knuckle-dragging human social norms such as materialism, class, wealth, and status and your only gratifications in life are numbers, logic, code, math, and machines. It's quite the catch 22.

San Jose is a shithole, look in San Francisco or Palo Alto

I don't believe you, San Francisco is actually lower than anywhere in Sillicon Valley.

Most programmers are comfortably middle class.
Senior positions (~7-10 years experience) is upper-middle class in most of the country.

If you want to be a mediocre professional and get paid well programming and IT in general aren't the right areas

That's base pay. If you look at the company I work for, there's another $60k in cash bonus and stock grants. Plus profits on espp.

But that's another conversation, we're talking salary here. Everyone makes more than their salary if you include benefits.

So ill be loaded (if I am) but ill be another Stallman or Wozniak and have no use for it

F-fuck...

That's a nice apple. Linus supposed to be rich, but he drove only a Z3. Maybe they save the money so they can retire early.

>Do programmers even make good money
If you're good, SHIT LOADS.

Low side of it.

Linus seems more like the kind of guy that invests in his kids college fund or whatever than material shit.

>only gratifications in life are numbers, logic, code, math, and machines.
>implying it isn't the most comfiest way of life for any Sup Forumsentooman

If this was 20 years ago, you'd be in great shape. Now, forget it.

>outsourcing
>automation
>insecure, insane micro-management

And programmers do precious little "coding" anymore. It's been code theft for a long time already, but now it's more management bullshit, explaining why scope creep is going to cost more money, keeping pajeets from stinking up the place.

You're much, much better off going straight into security than wasting your time as a programmer. But you'd better have the skills to back it up. As long as code is being outsourced, it'll be relatively easy to break.

So stop making threads about it and go learn.

Make your own startup.

What are? I'm happy with a stable 9-5 job that pays a bit above average and with room for growth if you deducate yourself.

I really hate comments like this, they are everywhere in career advice topics, always go along the line of "you will be miserable if you go into X/Y/Z for money/security (essentially anything other than hard-worked paired.passion)", and they never provide an alternative suggestion.

I don't even know if I can trust opinions like this anymore.

I'm thinking of switching from biochemistry to software engineering because I don't wanna earn 35k/yr working a lab tech job that only requires a technical degree in first place. I have zero coding experience or knowledge.

The really good infosec guys are independent. They have to be.

>be contractor for big company
>pentesting government site
>took about five minutes
>tell boss
>boss pissed they can only charge for an hour
>tells me to lie and make it more complex

Quit on the spot. It also helps to have lots of contacts and no dependents.

>startups

IT is dead. We're infrastructure. . .plumbers. You're better off making the next candy crush than ever having to deal with people who don't understand what you do and resent paying you.

Go back to school and get a degree in bioinformatics. There are a few online schools that are halfway decent and you can do it between naps at work.

To you people who program for a living:

What kind of people do you get to work with? I've got this image that programmers are annoying elitist nerds that programs on their free time as well. This image kind of makes me not want to take a job as a programmer.

I'm not working atm. Why bioinformatics?

Cute and lewd traps.

>cute and lewd traps.

The greatest (non)achievable look of a programmer

I mean yeah I program for a living and for fun, how does this make one an elitist exactly? Do you think people answering questions on stack overflow get paid for it are they "elitists"?

There's a pretty broad range.

When I first graduated a little over a decade ago, my starting salary was barely $50k since I screwed around in college and had a poor GPA.

However through some good luck with subsequent opportunities and not being an idiot, I'm making $240k now and have a decent chance of getting up to $350k or so in the next two years.

> t. HFT system designer

How's life work balance, can you not think about job stuff in free time?

not that guy but go ahead and take a single look at /dpt/

you'll instantly know why "programmers" would have that kind of reputation on Sup Forums

How many years did it take?

Sounds pretty cool. I screw around currently.

who forces you to buy a $10 cup of coffee?
supermarkets are always cheap no matter where you go, in the worst case scenario they're only like, 50% or 100% more expensive in rich areas.

Also, yoU FUCKING MORON YOU FUCKING RETARD the salary raises higher than the cost of living

you fucking stupid bitch fucking brainlet retard

>Senior engineers make 100k to 150k in Silicon Valley.

In base salary.

RSUs and bonuses add $100k on top of that.

>Everyone makes more than their salary if you include benefits.

Not everyone makes twice as much though

>infosec
Give me tips please famalam, I'm doing amateur pentest shit in my free time and I've love to do it when I grad, any advice?

No, because they have to compete with literally billions of pajeets, chinks and ruskies.

Guys, i did a mechanical engineering degree but hated it. What direction should i go in while learning programming, in order to earn a lot of money programming? I am currently working somewhere, so i would do it in my spare time.

Is programming something that requires hugely specialised skills or is it something that allows you to switch easily among fields (vidya, financial systems, web stuff)?

suck my pig

suck my porker

suckamacka

If you hate engineering you will hate proramming, programming is the art of engineering the software to generate a good output, you engineer the PC, you build the software in order for it to behave in such a way that when supplied wtih expected input it will produce the output that is correct based on your requirements and needs and constraints

if you hate engineering you are a brainlet

if you are a brainlet you will be a poor programmer

if you hate neingeering and programming you will not be able to get IT salary

then you will become poor and die

you are a pig, and you suck my pig

3 years of a shit job, 2 years of high end technical but so-so paying startup, then first trading job.

Only did a couple years before trying something else since I wasn't fond of the sector's culture, but I got back into it just for the relative stability.

FWIW, I wouldn't in retrospect recommend fucking around in school too much unless you truly are smart and have a demonstrable ability to flip your motivation/hard work switch at will and actually produce work good enough to impress your peers.

>IT salary

wew

>> t. HFT system designer
so you're more of an analyst then?

if not, what and how do you actually program?

Is the stuff you learn in school helpful?

Low latency, software-mostly stacks for market data handling, order gateways, risk control, and algo hook-in APIs.

90+% C++/Linux/x86_64 systems/network programming including some custom kernel/driver work, with design responsibilities (but little low-level competence) for the strategy and hardware design pieces.

any sort of applied math: statistics & probability, discrete math, linear algebra, differential equations. (real analysis, topology, set theory, etc. not so much.)

CompSci: architecture, operating systems, networking, systems programming, language/compiler design and theory, plus all the basic stuff.

My primary personal skill is that even though I'm too lazy to ever do all the work and learn all the material of a class completely, I understand what I have learned enough to infer halfway competently what I don't know, and I have a freakishly strong memory for technical systems I understand well enough to be able to reflect upon. I've always worked with other smart individuals, but it feels like even most of them forgot nearly everything they should have learned in school.

Fucking pisses me off how much more money software engineers earn in the USA

over here in germany I'm sitting at 50k euros / year entry salary and that's already considered bretty good

Don't fall for the programming meme.
Go into business.

>germany
>50k eur

KEK, what are you, a front-end developer ?

money is not technology

Those guys average at 37k / year

It's sad

This is the average for every Engineering Job in Germany.
It doesn't matter if you program embedded systems and have EE Knowledge or just program Javashit.

>90+% C++/Linux/x86_64 systems/network programming including some custom kernel/driver work
that sounds pretty difficult

I have no trouble believing that you deserve that salary

I like programming and making stuff, but I hate wasting it on a company. That's why I'm my own game dev right now.

The reason for that is that if they would earn more, they could save money to create their own companies.
No employer wants to risk funding their own competition, which is why wages of engineers have been driven down.

a front-end developer makes like $150k in the bay area

programmers make a lot of money but the reason they only seem like middle class dudes is because they spend too much of it to support their nerdy and expensive hobbies

There's definitely competition both inside and out of trading groups, and it has a weird way of making you feel like cattle and a mercenary at the same time. It also breeds a lot of arrogance in people, and you're lucky if you can find a group who you feel comfortable working with.

Hey man, I'm making 60K€ a year
And I'm a fit python programmer

>sf

>no source whatsoever

techcrunch.com/2017/02/09/what-software-engineers-are-making-around-the-world-right-now/

this is about right.
Bay Area and NYC = prepare to get jewed the fuck out for the dubious privilege of living there.

Just get a job at a startup in the bay area, get paid like $130k and work remotely from europe. The living costs in europe are like 1/3 of the bay area, this way you can save like 75% of your salary.

You alright?

If this doesn't describe you you shouldn't be here

The point of hiring people in the Bay Area is that starry-eyed grads will slave away horrendous hours in the office just for the experience of living and working there.

If the shops wanted cheap telecommute labor, they'd just offshore to pajeets.

Nowadays startups in the bay area have remote teams instead of having offices, they resort to hire people either from the US or EU

thx for the reply m8

you need connections to get a job just like with every other job, then you learn the profession like with every other profession.

the only real difference is with programming the skills you learned become deprecated within 5 years or some paradigm shift occurs that turns the industry upside down then you're fucked if you have no escape plan by then.

>If this doesn't describe you you shouldn't be here
We're just here to gawk at the geeks.

Don't live in a meme city then?

Just because you have it doesn't mean you have to spend it.

The CFO where I work drives around an old beat up Toyota.

how? what position?

100k $ entry level in bay area is not enough senpai.

>skills you learned become deprecated within 5 years
We're still writing in languages designed more than 4 fucking decades ago. You're conflating the javascript ecosystem with all of programming, retard

I only make 55k but the job is comfy as fuck and I only work 5-7 hours a day

>What kind of people do you get to work with? I've got this image that programmers are annoying elitist nerds that programs on their free time as well.
The elitist nerd meme is present at Palantir, except they aren't nerds. They're basically wanna be chads and they literally have a bad track record at treating everyone else like utter shit

No they don't code in their free time

NY tech community is probably full of the most elitist, condescending, apathetic ass hats I've ever seen in my life. They make boston folks and Bay Area people look like saints

If youre in it for the money why not just be a lawyer

Engineer Hell: because you make the product you are least important part.

Mature average People programming business rules for CRUD apps,very great people make thing done and had good social live and girlfriend/wife, mostly never browser Sup Forums, Reddit or hacker news, these people are dark matter software.

I had to be most nerd because I am math guy.

I make 180k right out of college in the Seattle area.

Most happiest Software developer I know comes from Seattle,Denver,Austin,San Diego, Santa Monica.

For so many spergs going into tech for the tendie money, I really wonder why Law isn't a more appealing option.

Lawyers get paid out the ass, and the whole job involves obscure procedure and facts that would make any walking-database of bullshit autist feel right at home in. The Law side of tech pays out the ass to boot.

Then again, easier to code than try to go to law school on a middle-class family's dime, let alone a NEET's salary.

You have to pay out of your ass and waste years of your life for law school. If you don't get into a T14 you're fucked. You start off making shit money and working long hours. You have to actually deal with people.

Few lawyer make money but best model is put you own consult and getting some specialization.

I make good money programming from my vehicle..

Cryptominer dev make more 1milion usd per day

So what do people do in these jobs? Make apps for company's shit?

You get to work with "normies". They all look and act like average folks.

You'll meet elitist assholes in every profession.