Ubuntu Is Switching to Wayland

omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-will-run-wayland-default

IT'S HAPPENING!

Other urls found in this thread:

wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html
youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/02/client-side-window-decorations-and-wayland/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Meh, Windows 10 is the only Linux you need.

well no shit?

Gnome 3 has had a wayland only compositor for some time.

Oh boy...

Is Wayland a good thing for the Linux desktop?

this is good for bitcoin

yes

And to mir everyone said "good riddance"

redpill me on Wayland Sup Forums, what's the difference with X.org and why does it matter so much?

Redpill yourself back to your favorite search engine.

no

maybe

I don't know

x.org is about as efficient at making gui userspaces as those old xp era windows phones
wayland is super fukn nice and efficient and modern at it.
think of going straight from gingerbread UI toolkits to lollipop

Bane?

Good, wayland works very well with GNOME, and will work even better when 18.04 comes out

Can you repeat the question?

X has a client - server architecture so you can use the X from another machine if you want. Also it is old.

Wayland is local only. It is newer than X.

>openbox doesn't support wayland

somebody will make a lightweight featureless Wayland WM soon user. Don't feel disapointed.

>And to mir everyone said "good riddance"

What did they do to Mark? Promise him profits to not cause a riff, or take him in a windowless room and beat his head in with a helmet on?

What's wroung with gingerbred, it wasn't that fucking horrid. Quite comfy now that I remember.

Wait, wailand doesn't have that? Fucking trash.

sadly, yes. no network transparency .. which is really annoying and the only think i really hate about wayland.

Is mir dead?

Yes

Windows 10 when?

Good, it wasn't needed to begin with.

Deadborn

so, unity dead, upstart dead, mir dead. is there any of canonicals projects left ?

THANK GOD KILL MIR NOW.

...

Unity deserved to die after the amazon spyware incident.

I have some ancient software that only works with Xlib, not looking forward to wrangling with compatibility issues.

Xorg backwards compatibility in wayland won't be an issue at all, you can easily run X on top of wayland.

no

Wayland experts:


Is there a suitable replacement for x forwarding? Red-light filter (redshift)? Remote desktop software (nx, x2go, xvnc, etc?)

Yes, Xorg itself is a security problem.

It's not 100% compatible iirc because some X features simply can't be replicated inside Wayland, and I imagine a lot of older stuff from Xlib (as opposed to XCB) are likely to cause problems.

wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html
>Is Wayland network transparent / does it support remote rendering?
>No, that is outside the scope of Wayland

do these things exist for wayland then? if i were to switch to wayland tomorrow would I be able to have these features?

XFCE4 w/ gtk3 and wayland WHEN

vnc works, for the rest: no.

someone will have to develop something new from scratch.

what do you use x forwarding for ? i haven't used it for years, so i'm curious

xorg is shit, so yea

Ubuntu itself

matlab

This.

Also anyone who tried previewing Unity 8 understood just how dead in the water the entire project was. I'm glad they killed it.

X.org is an unmantainable, 20 years old mess of spaghetti code held together with duct tape and shoddy patches.

Wayland is backwards compatible with X for legacy/deprecated stuff, does the same easier, faster and way more stable, and is endorsed by X.org devs as the way to go forward.

When does Wewland comes to Windows 10?
I'm serious

Wayland is an open door, so there is no security anymore.

Get a server os like debian and stay on x for a decade if you want server features. The desktop will finally take of with wayland and everything being smooth as fuck like it should have happened 10 years ago when vista got out. Typical linux shit, always the last ones to get anything right.

youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

Listen to a past X dev and present Wayland dev tell you the story

can't you just run matlab locally and use matlabs distributed computing server?

>Biggest Distro adopting Gnome
>adopting Wayland
>Wayland encourages better video drivers
>Vulkan pushes more cross-platform videogames
>finally a consistent cross-distro DE

Could we finally be approaching the possibility of the YOTLD? Even a single percent change in desktop marketshare is enormous.

I certainly hope so.
Is wayland still shit or is it usable now

I'm having no problems with it personally.

It's been usable since a year ago or so. I remember Fedora 22 offering it as an option and still being a little bit iffy, but up to everyday tasks. Since F23 or 24 your could run it 24/7 without trouble.

so only KDE and gnome are compatible now, right? Out of compatoble WMs I've only heard of enlightenment

So all we need to do to make it even more easier for normies:
>standardize packaging (between deb, rpm, snappy or flatpak, no normie wants to build from source).
>existing software ported over (or alternatives like LibreOffice get so good that even die-hard companies are forced to at least consider it).

Which leads to
>preinstalls

Which means everyone gets familiar with it, more people understand it and use it and the cycle continues.
And hence we reach the inflection point.

The day flatpak (or whatever ends up being standard) works as drag-n-drop into an "apps" folder like OSX is probably the day YOTLD might actually happen. Out of all Windows annoyances, I'm sure there's nothing normies despise more than the add/remove software screen because it bundles libraries, user programs, and even hardware drivers together so they're terribly afraid they will fuck something up (and rightly so). And for decades, the only thing MS has done to fix it was adding a pop-up warning that deleting a shortcut won't delete the program itself and call it a day.

>runs gcc and coreutils
What more do you need?

I don't think it needs to be drag-n-drop but it definitely has to be double-click-able to install.

Linux currently has a multiple interaction models which is either 1: search the repo, 2: add a PPA (only Ubuntu) or 3: Hope someone out there (preferably the dev) has packaged the software in your Distro's chosen package type (I've only ever seen .debs anyway).

After that build a really good package manager (that can be made to look like a software centre) where people can see all the software that's installed (and remove it), and hide drivers in the settings menu or something.

synaptic with a nice ui slapped over it should be normie friendly

As long as software is init independent everything will be fine. Systemd is doing more harm than good.

I disagree.

I have to request interactive resources with the job scheduler on the supercomputing cluster first, so no

Magnificent.
Yet proprietary NVIDIA driver still doesn't work correctly with Wayland (and the whole KMS).
KDE also doesn't do well.

WAYLAND ISN'T BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OF MY VIDEO GAMES

>loonix
>videogames

kek

See the notes on "X on wayland", I guess. Unless MATLAB does something 'special', it ought to work via X-on-wayland.

And in any case, much as people like to note that Wayland is the future, Xorg servers won't be going away anytime soon simply because they're a lot easier to *customize* (changing WM vs. changing entire compositor & such)

then answer the question??

50%.

I don't know what it means or what a compositor is, but I'm going to read some posts here, form an opinion without even knowing what it is, and repeat it ad nauseam on Sup Forums

>yes
>no
>maybe
>I don't know
>Can you repeat the question

You're not the boss of me now!

Yeap, is a piece of shit, but still better than Xorg.

A compositor is responsible for drawing the windows, and any necessary framing, to the screen.

In Wayland's case, the 'compositor' component (assuming assistance via Wayland's libraries) must get a GL context on a virtual terminal, draw the windows, handle input and make sure it goes to the right window, along with providing any framing, which likely means that by the end you're either going to have a bunch of hacks or you're going to need some sort of virtual object system. Not an enviable task.

(This assumes that the compositor has to provide framing. blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/02/client-side-window-decorations-and-wayland/ is a bit old, and I would hope for the sake of application integration that it still applies. Anything written by the GNOME dev team looks bad already thanks to their CLDs - wouldn't want that to spread to "anything written using GTK+ or Qt on the other's environment".)

In Xorg, the role of keeping graphics access on virtual terminal, window drawing and getting input where it needs to be is performed by the Xorg server, with the Window Manager telling it where to place the windows, creating windows of it's own for decorations, and the Xorg server providing inputs to those so the resize-knobs can resize things and the titlebars can move things.

This allows small, replacable window managers. Wayland is architected more towards the 'modern DE' way of things, which is "big monolithic compositing window manager that does absolutely everything", and this is the case that Wayland uses against Xorg, because Xorg is indeed inefficient when you're barely even using Xorg as a component at all.

This thread is filled with ignorant fuckers. If Wayland is the "Linux desktop" then all the advantages are gone.

You do know that Wayland's design effectively destroys any choice and customization right? Wayland's protocol is basically an isolation prison that requires "big DE's" and destroys choice. The protocol moveseverythinginto one central place called the "compositor" this machinery must provide:

the window manager

the hotkey daemon

the compositing effects

the windowing server

screen reading tools

screenshots

screen casting

magnifying glass tools

global dictionary tools

etc etc etc everything.

Wayland's design makes it impossible to write a portable hotkey daemon for instance. Supposedly for "security reasons". Wayland is a GNOME dev's dream, it kills the ability of people to control their own system. If you're actually excited for Wayland you either thoroughly misunderstand what it brings and just like it because it's new or you're a drooling GNOME-lover who hates customization.

me too

...

I haven't really looked at Wayland's design, but aren't there a few window managers in development? Sway comes to mind, or is that just a "big DE" pretending to be a wm

It is, and it will get worse once they have to start adding a ton of features to each fucking compositor

Wayland forces you to use GNOME, just more redhat trash.

Big deal

Just build a pluggable "compositor" that will delegate these functions to other programs

There problem solved, choice retained and in a much more unix-y way than big fat bloated xorg

There already is an i3 like WM called sway for wayland. X11 shills BTFO!

Linux seems irrelevant to me. Windows and OSX are secure if unplugged from the internet. Same with linux. If you plug linux into the net it instantly looses all of it's security benefits. So why the fuck use an inferior OS? I mean come on. It's 2017 and linux is just now getting a halfway decent compositor...

Why are you posting then from an insecure computer, user? Do you want to be insecure? Turn off your internet now.

Linux out of the box permissions are much more secure than windows (see the root/user divide and UNIX file permissions.)

You are right that OS/X is on par with OOTB Linux in terms of security. But Windows makes the user admin by default and allows privilege escalation at the click of a button (a "feature" that is exploited by half the viruses out there.)