First off, systemd is not an init system, it has an init system as part of the systemd suite. systemd is a project to build a standardised lowlevel userland for Linux. The project is pretty comprehensive and it delivers a lot of functionality under one umbrella. It does away with a lot of older, often undermaintained software packages, which were traditionally used to assemble a low level userland.
Which is where the contention comes from, as a system suite systemd is restrictive for Unix virtuosi who are used to tailor a system with wit, ingenuity, a lick and a prayer and a couple dozen of unrelated packages. systemd makes such knowledge useless.
The faction that thinks that systemd is Linux's Hiroshima, finds all the added functionality bloat, unnecessary and dangerous, as it is all under development in one project.
All the systemd jokes stem from the comprehensiveness as a low level system suite. People against it love to joke that one day systemd will write its own kernel.
There is a lot of FUD and hate going around. Some arguments do have merit, a lot of eggs in one basket is certainly true, but as with all things in life, it depends which tradeoff you prefer. Do you want a suite of well designed software, working closely together, so that system management is streamlined or do you want the complete freedom to tailor your own low level system with a lot of time tested, interchangeable components.
I have no desire to be a low level system designer, so I prefer systemd. I don't hate traditional init systems though. If a Linux system has one and I need to work with it, I'm still happy it boots and starts the necessary services.
Systemd adopted by Debian after a jew bought the lead project
Other urls found in this thread:
lwn.net
zdnet.com
without-systemd.org
wizardofbits.tumblr.com
sys.Sup
without-systemd.org
phoronix.com
cvedetails.com
cvedetails.com
slideshare.net
freebsd.org
access.redhat.com
twitter.com
>systemd adopted by Debian after a jew bought the lead project
and that surprises absolutely nobody
>SysVinit
protip fucking retards, LSB init is not SysV
SysV doesn't fucking have shit like dependency management which is offered by LSB headers.
LSB init is not just runlevel cancer, it's a fully functioning semi-modern init which specifications for helper functions which theoretically makes it portable and very easy to create init scripts from.
please stop calling LSB init, sysv init
you fucking faggots.
Daily reminder that systemd is FOSS (Free & Open Source Software) and that it is good software that fulfils the needs of modern devops, sysadmins, regular users and even application developers. Since work on systemd project restarted in 2010 and it's initial inclusion in Fedora Jan 2011 it has gained code contributions from over 700 developers worldwide and became the default init system and session manager in every major GNU/Linux distribution since 2012. Developers from each of these have commit access and have helped to design and shape systemd to fit their needs and unify core system between distributions over the last 5 years.
However as great of an improvement as it has proven to be it has attracted many paid trolls and mentally ill Linux users who spread lies and FUD about it, a large group of these single out developers and attack them with constant trolling, abuse, stalking and even death threats. Many of these 'people' are from the *BSD camps; after Linux usage and contributions sky-rocketed 15 years ago they have been on a constant mission to cause trouble, including making threats of violence and rape against people who create GPL licensed code.
There are also thought to be many of these people on the payroll of Microsoft to try and destroy strong powerful FOSS projects by negative campaigning. Fortunately as usual for Microsoft their FUD and paid shills turn up 4 years too late and don't have technical arguments, making it obvious what they are: paid trolls.
"I think your attitude is pretty typical of systemd detractors, and that attitude is exactly why systemd is making a victory sweep across all major Linux distributions;
Since you are in total denial of any existing problems with sysvinit, you are of course unable to suggest any alternative to it, or begin any coherent work on an alternative to it. The denial also suggest a lack of technical insight into the problem, and the pathetic lack of any alternative development work also suggest a lack of technical ability to make such an alternative.
This seemingly leaves systemd detractors with only one option; negative campaigning. So they have wasted years of slandering Lennart Poettering and other open source developers and companies, and whining, ranting and trolling on web forums, but without any real technical argumentation.
Using derogatory terms, like "bloat", or "Windoze crap" aren't technical argumentation, just like copy-pasting unattributed quotes from random sites about "Unix philosophy" doesn't convince anybody serious either.
You are also alienating people who may have been sympathetic to developing alternatives to systemd; who wants to join a bunch of anonymous people who rant like lunatics, and who seems to enjoy smug negative attitudes against other open source developers.
So to sum up; you are just a loud minority who conducts negative campaigning, seemingly without any ability to gather people to construct a positive alternative to systemd. As long as you deny any problems with sysvinit, and deny any positive merits of systemd, you will be unable to analyse the situation and therefore paralysed into inaction. This of course will mean, that Linux distro after Linux distro will switch over to systemd. Enjoy the future with systemd on every Linux distro; your negative attitude made it possible."
"I remember being severely disillusioned by this in my early days. I read some article that explained how a "spell" program can be written to report the spelling errors in a file. It uses 'tr' to split into words, then "sort" and "uniq" to get a word list, then "comm" to find the differences. "cool" I thought. Then I looked at the actual "spell" program on my university's Unix installation. It used a special 'dcomm' (or something like that) which knew about "dictionary ordering" (Which ignores case - sometimes). Suddenly the whole illusion came shattering down. Lots of separate tools only do 90% of the work. To do really complete work, you need real purpose-built tools. "do one thing and do it well" is good for prototypes, not for final products.
The thing that annoys me most about systemd is that I didn't write it first!"
- Neil Brown
lwn.net
"The problem for Gnome and KDE is, that systemd is vastly superior to anything out there, and that it will help them dump loads of hard to maintain code, and give them easy access to make powerful distro-agnostic programs.
systemd provides a common, uniform Linux plumbing system that makes life easier for all user program developers. So of course Gnome and KDE will start to take advantage of systemd, why shouldn't they?
The main problem with those who for some reason or another doesn't like systemd, is that they are incredibly lazy. Instead of actually getting together to make an alternative development stack to systemd, they rant against Poettering and spew empty platitudes about "UNIX philosophy".
The most pathetic example of this anti-systemd laziness, is of course "ConsoleKit". It has now been unmaintained for +1½ years, but it is a crucial piece of infra-structure for any Desktop. But instead of either maintain it or make an alternative, anti-systemd people just rant against Gnome for no longer making it a priority to support this piece of abandonware. All rant and no work.
[...]
Yes, that is true last time you checked, and next KDE edition (KDE SC 5/Plasma 2) will of course also run on *BSD. But with reduced functionality on all non-systemd systems, compared with the systemd version.
This is not because of some sinister conspiracy, but because systemd offers easy use of many nice features that KDE and Gnome (and LXQT etc) would like to use, and non-systemd systems doesn't provide.
The point is exactly, that systemd is a very nice uniform Linux plumbing system, and that DE's are starting to take advantage of that."
"I’m trying really hard not to suggest launchd here (so I won’t). The idea of registering everything up-front with a broker and then letting IPC / timers / HW events start things from there (in cascade fashion) is still the right architecture. Even the linux die-hards have essentially grasped the necessity of systemd (even though they’re going to hate on it for awhile longer)".
- Jordan Hubbard, FreeBSD co-founder
kill yourself cia nigger
this got a good point
this is just plain bias a propaganda
more propaganda
more propaganda
yet even more propaganda
and more propaganda
OP is the less faggot here
"I don't personally mind systemd, and in fact my main desktop and laptop both run it."
- Linus Torvalds, ITWire Interview.
"I've had issues with some of the core developers that I think are much too cavalier about bugs and compatibility, and I think some of the design details are insane (I dislike the binary logs, for example)"
Linux Torvalds
zdnet.com
I still have no clue what's wrong with systemd.
Are there ANY anti-systemd arguments that are not autism-related?
no, otherwise people would actually have reasons instead of bullshit.
here are some reasons for systemd:
1. services are configuration and no longer fully functioning shell scripts with all the pain of managing pidfiles, launching processes in the background, dealing with nice levels, or even ensuring a service is running. systemd slices also allows you to see what your daemons are spawning and integrates cgroup rules for you.
2. timers are persistent across poweroffs, can be traced with systemd list-timers and don't hav ethe whole email notifications, everything is logged in a central syslog
3. systemd provides a very useful syslog and will automatically redirect stdout/err to syslog for you. journald is an easier way of viewing logs for numerous tools and no longer do you need to maintain /var/log entries and do things like setting up logrotate.
overall systemd is a shitload better than the old way of doing things, making things much more consistent across multiple OSes
People hate change.
>Do you want a suite of well designed software
>systemd
>well designed
>OpenRC 14,183 lines
>systemd 361,581 lines
Daily reminder: without-systemd.org
Some anime slut with a weird shaped head is not an argument, bud.
>open a random link called "Systemd? More like Shit-stemd"
>it's an autistic neckbeard going "THIS IS NOT HOW YOU UNIX"
>needing arguments when the lead doesn't even know how fucking Linux works in the first place
I sure do get the warm and fuzzies when a Windows dev starts writing broken shit and claims that Linux acts the way my shit does.
>doesn't know enough about Linux to stop systemd from recursing on ..
>"""high quality"""
But why are you lying nigger? Anybody who opened that link will know you are lying.
>wizardofbits.tumblr.com
>sys.Sup Forums.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwithout-systemd.org%2Fwiki%2Findex.php%2FArguments_against_systemd
I recommend getting your eyes (preferably your brain) checked if you are saw some similarities between these links
>without-systemd.org
Did you open that link, you stupid nigger? Where do you think I pulled that blog post from?
>Being an austistic nigger
desu the dash filename exposes issues with shells and other programs more than systemd
systemd devs don't know about issues with these though so they ended up naming it that way
...
(((systemd)))
So while you are at it, explain the rest of the links as well. Preferably in an organized, well formatted way. Or should I post more screenshots?
I CANT CLICK LINKS IN THE IMAGE TARDFACE
Started using linux when out of all mainstream distributions only debian was using it (wheezy).
Haven't had much time to get accustomed with alternatives, for a single-user-system user I'm proficient in systemd enough for it to not cause me headaches on a daily basis.
Isn't it essentially what the community of desktop linux users wanted?
And solution that's so easy to understand that people won't bother you with bajillion of pointless "pls halp" threads on forums?
Just reading link headers is enough to activate some almonds
1/5
2/5
3/5
you sure are dedicated to software you don't like
have you considered killing yourself?
4/5
Systemd seems to be poorly designed, but provides a better (good) user experience. It has had some major fuckups in the past due to this poor design though. Complaining about this is valid, and I totally see why some would want to not use it as a result. I will continue using it until we have genuine indications of it being intentionally insecure.
5/5
Why would I kill myself when I can watch your rectums' color shift towards the left side of the light spectrum, getting more red as the time passes?
*right
Reminder that if you're against systemd, you're a racist, mysoginistic, homophobic piece of shit.
user, my anus already has its emission peak in the infrareds
Where is "lead systemd developer doesn't understand . and .."
You can read those links if you want those "genuine indications of it being intentionally insecure". You will be surprised, not.
The main problem with systemd is Poettering's attitude. Remember when systemd hijacked/broke the debug boot param and he told Linus to fix the problem in the kernel?
Insane number of lines to fulfill generally the same function is a really fucking stinky smell.
For various reasons -- insecure design, politics, others -- I've had a strong suspicion that systemd is NSA botnet.
>suspicion
>NSA botnet
лoл
Point it out. Maybe you just misunderstood me. I mean intentionally, not ignorantly. If you're a moron who ends up designing something that's bad, that's not intentional.
seeWhy would they open up the system towards more attack vectors by expanding the codebase that much?
phoronix.com
Also refer to the other links and GOOGLE for more information. And don't get me wrong, I am not trying to teach you anything, you must have been aware of these things by a long time. I am trying to prevent you from tricking the newfags into using systemd.
Nigger, if you are going to shitpost against anti-systemd fags, do it properly
sysvinit relies on bash to function, which has more holes than systemd, which ACTUALLY tries to limit powers of PID 1 by not loading an interpreter.
fucking brainlets, your brains are so useless you cant even use it for proper shitposts.
Gonna need some citations for your bullshit claims, nigga
>t. windows user
fried my neurons right there, let me explain, see that first line in the image? yes, #! /bin/bash, that says which interpreter that script needs, bash is such interpreter.
Of cource your neurons will be fried if they are overloaded, user. I was asking you to cite a source for this:
>sysvinit relies on bash to function, which has more holes than systemd
>OpenRC
>deprecated
according to whom
I get the feeling people are trying to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt re systemd.
No need, Poettering took care of that
hey, not only are systemd shills bad at shitposting, they don't know how to check CVEs.
cvedetails.com
cvedetails.com
die in a fire, cock sucking faggot, you are bad at this.
I like systemd, because it made me finally move to OpenBSD.
Metric shittons. Which is how we all know you're a shill, since after the thousandth time that shit gets posted, you would have gotten a clue if you weren't paid not to.
This argument is applicable to every single fucking product.
Explain how this makes the anti-systemd arguments less accurate.
Also yes, you shouldn't blindly trust every product.
Strange how no other product has people like you attached to them.
No, what I am saying is that just because some eople are normies (me) who still can't understand why systemd is so hated yet it's so widespread does not mean that they all are shills.
Strange how you are so focsed on hating one and only one product that you are seeing enemies in people who are not sharing your point of view.
Strange that you keep projecting without pause or slowdown.
>First off, systemd is not an init system
That's not how it was sold to us initially.
FreeBSD init is superior in every way
>keep projecting
lol
FreeBSD is superior in every way.
I actually like being able to understand my system.
nb4 LFS!
I also like understanding my system without wasting countless hours of my life. Just have it fucking doc'd somewhere. Which FreeBSD is great at.
FreeBSD is garbage. Doesn't even support half-modern hardware such as skylake. Crap performance all around. Package management is a joke, unlike gentoo's. Also the founders want to get something systemd-like into their system.
>Also the founders want to get something systemd-like into their system.
Why? Didn't they learn anything from systemd?
>Also the founders want to get something systemd-like into their system
Did some googling, nothing came up. Got any citations?
I'd like to say "because they're clinically retarded" but meh.
slideshare.net
Guys please stop with the nitpicking.
SystemD is starting to become a really great OS.
Now it just lacks a proper init system.
Moreso launchd-like than systemd-like.
Perhaps, though the core issues (i.e. those not related to lennart himself) remain the same.
>I actually like being able to understand my system.
Watching text scroll by after copy-pasting something from a manpage or a wiki isn't comprehension.
Find me something comparable on Linux.
Closest I've seen yet is Arch wiki.
I stand corrected.
Why the fuck couldn't this had come up on Google back when I was a Linuxfag.
I still feel BSD is overall better documented (like when you get to hacking), but that's enough for me to drop that criticism.
Because they're stupid, that's why. I don't think it holds to argue that it's a fact that it's malicious.
When you declare all the arguments are related to autism you are showing your own autism.
This alone is proof enough against adoption of systemd.
Another problem with systemd is the idiots forcing everyone to using. The systemd devs demanding the tmux devs a code change was too much of too much.
Why should OpenBSD devs cater to Linux's shitware of an init system?
>splitting up the webpage into 5 separate images
>using jpg instead of png
???
I don't like spending hours investigating why my /tmp is a fucking tempfs without me telling so, never gonna trust that shit ever again
Why would you not want /tmp to be stored in RAM?
Because Firefox, Audacity and more use /tmp.
Well yeah, but how is that an issue? Do you only have 512MiB RAM or something?
I have 2GB and 1.some are usually taken by software. But that's not the point, why should that piece of crap decide I'm better off with something completely insensate? You would have just needed one line in fstab, I needed hours and a 15th or some post in an unknown forum to correct that idiocy
has anybody forked systemd and removed everything except the init stuff
this whole wiki just screams autism
u should of download more ram or move to a non shit machine
>use sysvinit
>want to shut down computer
>type 'init 6'
>use systemD
>type poweroff
>THE SYSTEM WILL BE SHUTTING DOWN IN T MINUS 6 MILLION MINUTES
>doesn't work anyway, just takes you to runlevel 1 or something
it says #!/bin/sh you fuck
only applies to RedHat derivatives
gj
>should of
Real 1337s use runit.
they obviously didn't
fuck systemdick
> service dummy start
you mean /etc/init.d/dummy start right? upstart isn't sysvinit.
A userland has a shell.
Explain to me why GNU has a shell and yet systemd doesn't.