/fglt/ - Friendly GNU/Linux Thread

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Users of all levels are welcome to ask questions about GNU/Linux and share their experiences.

*** Please be civil, notice the "Friendly" in every Friendly GNU/Linux Thread ***

Before asking for help, please check our list of resources.

If you would like to try out GNU/Linux you can do one of the following:
0) Install a GNU/Linux distribution of your choice in a Virtual Machine.
1) Use a live image and to boot directly into the GNU/Linux distribution without installing anything.
2) Dual boot the GNU/Linux distribution of your choice along with Windows or macOS.
3) Go balls deep and replace everything with GNU/Linux.

Resources:
Your friendly neighborhood search engine (try to use a search engine that respects your benis such as searx, ixquick or startpage).

$ man %command%
$ info %command%
$ help %command%
$ %command% -h
$ %command% --help

Don't know what to look for?
$ apropos %something%

Check the Wikis (most troubleshoots work for all distros):
wiki.archlinux.org
wiki.gentoo.org

Sup Forums's Wiki on GNU/Linux:
wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Category:GNU/Linux

>What distro should I choose?
wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Babbies_First_Linux

>What are some cool programs?
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/list_of_applications
directory.fsf.org/wiki/Main_Page

>What are some cool terminal commands?
commandlinefu.com/
bropages.org/

>Where can I learn the command line?
mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
grymoire.com/Unix/

>Where can I learn more about Free Software?
gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html

>How to break out of the botnet?
prism-break.org/en/categories/gnu-linux

/t/'s GNU/Linux Games: /t/'s GNU/Linux Training Videos: /fglt/'s website and copypasta collection:
fglt.nl && p.teknik.io/wJ9Zy

Other urls found in this thread:

lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html
github.com/Foggalong/hardcode-fixer
tldp.org/
tldp.org/LDP/khg/HyperNews/get/khg.html
gentoo.org/get-started/philosophy/
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Skype
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash
ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy
linux.com/what-is-linux
steven-mcdonald.id.au/articles/systemd.shtml
sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/
sourceforge.net/projects/archopenrc/files/arch-openrc/
without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
judecnelson.blogspot.com.br/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

FIRST FOR PRIVACY

NEW THREAD

To continue,
Simplicity. Organized structuring (could consider infrastructure? Layout of workflow/env/etc) becomes incredibly easy when simplicity is established.

Example!
Installing Arch manually, you will have complete control over what is installed (as you're not following automated choices.)
As such, you place in your head exactly what is there and what isn't there, unless you're memory deficient - but that's not to be considered in this example.
Once you've set the environment up, you UNDERSTAND the components of your workflow. You are intimate with your software. Installing dev-utils, base-utils, et-cetera, will be already handled. Personal experience, I installed "archbang", and it did not come with base-utils nor dev-utils automatically. As well, I had to manually fetch yaourt, to fetch pacaur, then remove yaourt.

It's a boggle to deal with "pretty" distributions that do the "work" for you. If you do the work yourself, you become efficient, and create solutions for "problems" you may encounter.
Problem constitutes as anything that negatively impacts you. I.E., having to make a script would be a solution, to solve time crunching issues.

If you don't like systemd, you don't have to use it. Create a solution that implements an alternative, such as OpenRC. It's possible. You can do it. You can streamline it. Don't be a bitch.

and all of this you can only learn when choosing arch lunix™

dude ive never had an issue with ubuntu.
i push the big button that says install and after a bit everything works fine, it does exactly what i want my computer to do

I know this is a joke - in earnest, a mentality as that suggested is to lay complacent with lack of understanding. Negative to growth in the brain. This is more of a humanities issue than a UNIX/Linux issue, so I give up with this.

GNU/Linux*

I'm talking about the kernel, Linux, not the toolchain provided, GNU.

Arch isn't minimalist.

"It has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible."

"It has also never been a distribution offering much user freedom / choice compared to Gentoo and even Debian. There are very few cases where there are multiple packages offering different configurations of the same project. There's no equivalent to update-alternatives or the comparable uses of USE flags. Changing /bin/sh from Bash will be broken, as will changing the python symlink to point to python2 instead of python3 even though this works on some other distributions. It doesn't strive to offer choices like this, and never has."

"Arch is the opposite of a user-centric freedom. The opinion of users has no weight here. Only the developers have an opinion, and there aren't voting systems as there are in Debian. Technical decisions are made based on merit via consensus among the developers, not popularity."

"Arch has never been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled at least when there's no non-bloat related cost, feature-packed/complex GNU tools, nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages, etc."

"It has always used significantly more disk space and a measurable amount of additional memory than Debian and especially Gentoo as a consequence of keeping things simple (again, from a development perspective)."

"Memes about minimalism and user freedom != actual distribution policy / principles / history."

t. arch wiki admin
lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html

>Install Xubuntu
>Liking it
>Install Dropbox
>Icon is incorrect and doesn't work
>Compiz effects don't want to work

OK, what DE do I need to switch to then?

>Install Dropbox
you failed right here

i also had an issue with xubuntu cocking things over, i went over to LXDE myself. but MATE or Cinnamon are good choices.

Did I fucking stutter? I said simple, not minimal. Sure, it's in "lieu", but simplicity does not EQUAL to minimalist.

Minimal would be... Puppylinux?

Simple would be Mint w/ no DE/WM.
Or Debian.
Arch.
Slackware.

Not Gentoo, though, that takes a lot of time to set up, which... in my terms, constitutes as friction to simple-ism.

Hi /fglt/, I'm looking to learn a lot of Linux OS for some work that my company will be doing (low level embedded Linux. I'll be focusing on the OS side of things).

Anyone got some good resources for making your own Linux OS? Working with drivers and things?

>no new ip
troll confirmed, kys

There are tons of resources for automatic driver grabbing. If these systems necessitate being connected to the internet, wget a fucking ton of drivers [archive] and you can do what you want with it from there (place into RAM for accessibility, or just on the disk temporarily [will reduce lifetime by a minimal amount, logically speaking, but in the long run does not matter])

But you need links, don't you? Find them yourself. They're out there.

thank you for protecting the streets of faglet

>Not Gentoo, though, that takes a lot of time to set up

are we talking about compile time here? because gentoo and arch are fairly comparable once you get past the whole 'compiling the whole os' thing which you do once

Did you disable xfce compositor and set compiz to start at login? There is a hack for hardcoded icons: github.com/Foggalong/hardcode-fixer

memes are worth a thousand words

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Gentoo (does not necessarily require, but recommends) get(ting)s intimate with your system's hardware in order to optimize efficiency.
While that's excellent and all, it often times has no measurable trade-off for performance once compiled and you get to work.

And, to compile your applications as well, your tools, your... you get the picture (I hope.)

Gentoo, while excellent to toy with, is not a simple process to handle. You [shouldn't] want to automate the process of compiling Gentoo (genkernel, etc) due to the philosophy of it. And that's just it - Gentoo works on a different philosophy than "simplicity". It goes more for raw "efficiency".

To note: in my earnest thoughts, efficiency is impacted whence basic menial returns are procured rather than looming optimizations that enhance productivity, say, six or tenfold, or however many n-folds we can go.

It's not simple, nor efficient - it is efficient in a logical sense, but not in a practical sense.

This will all be specific hardware, not generic stuff from the internet.

So, you're going to be deploying on specific hardware? A specific hardware in the sense of "it's all the same machine", right?

If so, that's absolutely easy. If you can find resources to modular driver deployment onto the kernel yadda yadda gibberish speak etc, you'll have little to no problems. If that's the case, I mean.

*GNU/Linux

Using neet distros might actually be a good idea. Such as Arch.
You can also try Linux From Scratch

tldp.org/
More specifically:
tldp.org/LDP/khg/HyperNews/get/khg.html

There are also many books on linux drivers.

Forgot to mention, there is also Alltray, you can specify a icon and keyboard shortcut to bring and take from/to the sys tray.

>You [shouldn't] want to automate the process of compiling Gentoo (genkernel, etc)
The process of compiling Gentoo is 100% automated, it's just highly configurable. You're talking about configuring the kernel, and configuring the kernel is basically a one-off time investment, after that it's much faster since you only need to configure new options with "make oldconfig" that appear in new kernel versions which there aren't many of (mostly new hardware support that you just skip)

if you don't think Gentoo is automated enough, you should try Source Mage

Certainly, that's the case. Though, can you go in-depth on what you consider to be "automation?" I'm having trouble connecting our ideas together on what "automation" is.

As an aside, the kernel, yes, will be pretty much handled with little user input after initial setup.
If you could jump into Gentoo in 10 minutes, and have an interface for typing where you have devutils and binutils and all those goodies (ala scripting to automate the procedure) that would be simple.

The philosophy of Gentoo isn't simple, is all.

>t. arch wiki admin
No, he was a "contributor" who got banned for bitching about systemd. Good riddance

I made posted several good replies explaining stuff to new comers but only my shit post get replies.
It's frustrating. You guys shouldn't reply to shit post.

explain this
gentoo.org/get-started/philosophy/
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Skype
wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash

It's kinda cute how some guys cry over Arch and systemd though, it's like living in a bubble

>what you consider to be "automation?"
Gentoo has dependency resolution and doesn't _require_ per package configuration. Unless you *want* to tinker you can just choose a profile, start emerge world and check out until your system is installed and ready. The rest is system configuration and has very little to do with 'compiling' per se (other than three lines in make.conf which set cpu flags, makeopts and cpu features)
This way its installation takes the same resources (from the user) as arch's. But more CPU resources and time obviously.

>If you could jump into Gentoo in 10 minutes
Probably possible with a few fuckton-core Xeons

Many distros have this problem.
ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy

looks legit

hahah saved in my arch memes folder

Of course. There's only like 5-6 distros that hasn't adopted systemd and most of them are inactive and unmaintained

Hey anybody use SSD as a read/write cache for an HDD using dm-cache or similar? Considering using 10-15 gb spare space on my boot SSD for this purpose.

I'm surprised that they link to the FSF when quoting the four freedoms ( unlike linux.com/what-is-linux )

>Of course. There's only like 5-6 distros that hasn't adopted systemd and most of them are inactive and unmaintained
kidding right?

I second this

>like 5-6 distros
Just slackware. The others are toy OSs.

mirin forearms lad

Hmm, no.
For now, slackware is moving to systemd soon as well.

>what is Void Linux

What are some cool terminal commands?

Why does linux suck so much dick?

A toy os.

okay lennart

No one uses void except for a couple of void shill/developer

get pwned lammah lmfao

its unreliable?

The most used OS for servers, super computers and embedded.

Does the userbase even matter? By your logic Ubuntu would be best distro. Stop shitposting.

must be shit then?

Base ubuntu? It kinda is though

>Does the userbase even matter?
Yes.

>By your logic Ubuntu would be best distro.
That's not what she said.

Sure.

So it's useless for human use?

ok

You forgot Android, the most widely used smartphone OS.

Highly underused less flag: -p

less -p something file
jumps directly to the first occurence of 'something' in file

life is so much better now

Hm, kind of, yes. However, my point is Void is properly mantained (gnome 3.24 before arch, lmao) and there are other options for newbie-friendly systems. And no, slackware's not going with systemd anytime soon.

get out of my friendly thread cunt

Are you by any chance a cock sucking faggot?

pls no racism
pls no homophobia

good thread

Here is what happens on a stock Arch Linux system, powered by systemd, when a non-root user tries to restart the system:
$ reboot
Failed to set wall message, ignoring: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files
Failed to reboot system via logind: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files
Failed to talk to init daemon.
In contrast, here is the equivalent error message on a system powered by runit:
$ reboot
init: fatal: unable to create /etc/runit/stopit: access denied
And on the oldest and best, Slackware:

$ reboot
reboot: must be superuser.

post it on reddit and gtfo

runit best init
prove me wrong

Has BFQ been merged with the mainline kernel? It should yield better I/O

1/2
SYSTEMD

It's unpredictable

Log into a computer running systemd. Try to find the answer to "which units are going to be started on next boot?". This is not quite the same thing as "which units were started on this boot?", and because of the complex dependency relationships between units, it's actually a very difficult question to answer. This is bad if you're a security-conscious sysadmin.

The failing of dependency-driven service initialisation is that it works far better in theory than it does in practice. In theory, you just have a directed graph of nodes, and you would like those depended upon by default.target to start. In practice, that's not how systems administration works.

As a sysadmin, when I reboot a system, I want to be able to ask "is foo going to start up after a reboot?". I want to know, with reasonable confidence, what the state of my system is going to be when it comes onto the network. This is one area where sysvinit outperforms systemd immeasurably.

And yes, you can avoid the whole issue just by masking any units you don't want to start, but that's missing the point. Again, the point I'm making isn't that it doesn't work, just that it doesn't work efficiently. Your tools should make your job easier, not get in your way.


Full article: steven-mcdonald.id.au/articles/systemd.shtml

M O D S
O
D
S

2/2
Its priorities are warped

One of the "features" of systemd is that it allows you to boot a system without needing a shell at all. This seems like such a senseless manoeuvre that I can't help but think of it as a knee-jerk reaction to the perception of Too Much Shell in sysv init scripts.

In exactly which universe is it reasonable to assume that you have a running D-Bus service (or kdbus) and a filesystem containing unit files, all the binaries they refer to, all the libraries they link against, and all the configuration files any of them reference, but that you lack that most ubiquitous of UNIX binaries, /bin/sh?

The use case often cited for this is managing services inside a container. I don't see why the init on my desktop needs to be complicated and restricted for the sake of a feature used by a minority of people with specialised use cases. By all means, write a tool for bootstrapping containers that doesn't rely on a shell, but don't shoehorn that into a one-size-fits-all init.

What makes this especially annoying, though, is that systemd also includes a dumbed-down shell-like parser to handle "EnvironmentFile"s (which usually don't actually set environment variables when sourced from a shell, but that's the way systemd's parser treats them). Also, service units have a pseudo-shell syntax for argument lists. One particularly bizarre feature that breaks expectations for users of pretty much any other software is that $FOO is word-split into multiple arguments, whereas ${FOO} isn't.

Is avoiding ever having to execute a binary really so useful in the real world that these complications are justified?

cant you just create a butthurt/hate/systemd general?

Clean installations

Manjaro OpenRC
sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/

Arch OpenRC
A new alternative to the official Arch installation ISO is now available, along with its repositories, hosted on the same location as the original systemd-free repos. This will install a fresh OpenRC Arch system, which can be afterwards customized as needed. Read the installation instructions and profit.
sourceforge.net/projects/archopenrc/files/arch-openrc/

GNU/Linux Distributions without systemd

#Devuan uses sysvinit, offers openrc, runit, sinit

#Dragora uses sysvinit + perp

#Gentoo uses openrc (see Gentoo without systemd)

#Obarun uses s6 supervision suite

#PCLinuxOS

#Refracta

#Slackware uses sysvinit
Stali, the static Linux, uses sinit
Void Linux uses runit

Other Free Unices Without systemd

One of the critical reasons against systemd concerns the lack of portability to other Unices, and the associated risk to see Linux-based systems detach from the UNIX world. OpenBSD, FreeBSD and other BSD OSes are de facto incompatible with systemd, or rather, systemd is incompatible with Unices not running Linux.

The BSD family:
FreeBSD
OpenBSD
DragonFly BSD
etc.

unix?

Huh? just look for default services. You are not just used to systemd

please fuck off

ITT: Red Hat/Fedora whores (basically sjws) against free systemd just because the globalist german behind it said it was the future of Linux

>friendly

>DADDY I DON'T LIKE IT BAN IT BAN IT

nigger i don't join fglt in order to read shit about systemd 24/7, get your own thread

>Sup Forums voting
>seriously
you are the fags who go to Sup Forums ask about if Switch's price is fair
I won't be surprised if Lennart writes another essay about how anti-system initiatives id are related/similar to the rise of Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump.

It's on topic. Deal with it.

>implying it's us keeping alive the systemd love/hate meme
I thought this shit endend two weeks ago after fucking up 4 threads?

You seem to have opinions about systemd. Would it not be a good idea to post it in relevant sites so that people can actually help you?

For example you should have posted it in Google+ or github or mailing lists. Yet you posted this in your blog and you have your comments disabled. Does it make any sense?

That's not really Sup Forums voting. Sup Forums doesn't have 5k users

...

and then there is this faggot
nice we're all here

What is unity but GNOME shell in disguise?

>For example you should have posted it in Google+ or github or mailing lists
refute here, don't read, ignore, or just whatever. There are dozens (or hundreds) of pro-systemd arguments.

c-can someone explain (in babby friendly language) the problem with systemd?

>There are dozens (or hundreds) of pro-systemd arguments.
Sigh. It's okay.

If you have to ask you shouldn't have to worry
The author of that article admits the merits of systemd too.

without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd

0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

tl;dr pls?

Sure.
tl;dr of link 1: "systemd is bad"
tl;dr of link 2: "no, systemd is good"

*Linux

People who don't know about systemd:

By reading the article below you'll understand both sides(because the author uses pro-systemd claims).
judecnelson.blogspot.com.br/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html
>The author of that article admits the merits of systemd too.
Because it does have merits. It has more negatives though.

*GNU/Linux

is there any way to make Gnome 3 usable?

>systemD is big and written in C, and we'll have to debug it
This is a point made very well. Both Linux and Systemd is burdened with C, and somewhat inherently unsecure.
It also concerns me that Linus is a C purist. Linux security vulnerabilities keep coming up every now and then. This is not going to be any different for systemd.

In a perfect world someone would port NetBSD to Rust, If I was young again, I'd invest the rest of my life in it. Having a family and a full time job makes it almost impossible.