I want a non-meme answer from the anons here that are unironically communist/socialist

I want a non-meme answer from the anons here that are unironically communist/socialist
How does your special snowflake reendition fix the issue of beuracratic privilege that's plagued socialist countries since the rise of the Soviet Union?
And if you can answer that, here's a follow up question: how do you provide people with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers, other than forcing them to under penalty of law?

Other urls found in this thread:

data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN
data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DTH.COMM.ZS
data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cancers/by-country/
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/stroke/by-country/
blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2016/01/27/is-this-the-end-of-fractional-reserve-banking/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Brainwashing.

Mixed economies exist.

>How does your special snowflake reendition fix the issue of beuracratic privilege that's plagued socialist countries since the rise of the Soviet Union?

dissolve the state after removing bourgeouisie by force

>how do you provide people with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers, other than forcing them to under penalty of law?

well wage labor will be abolished and low skill labor will be mostly automated. also, say what you want about Cuba (it has its problems) but it has more doctors per capita than most countries and high quality medical institutions - so what you are saying is proven to not be impossible

also lol all the pictures in the OP pic are wrong and dumb, it is an argument against straw socialism and welfare capitalism/liberals rather than what socialists actually believe. Fig. 2 and Fig. 4 are Socialism explained by Capitalists.

HAHAHA. I came from Venezuela lad, where I've met some of these Cuban doctors that were sent to my country in exchange for free oil to prop up their regime.
Socialism is so great that Cuba has "popularized" medical education, enabling them to graduate doctors with just 3 years of higher education, hence the high doctors per capita. Not like you'll believe me though since to your type anyone who disagrees with you is a CIA imperialist hell bent on assassinating Dear Leader Maduro.

yes but not with immense corruption

example: your government

>Actually seeking discussion from brain-dead pro socialist/communist teenagers on an anime image board

Literally why? There is already a wealth of knowledge and evidence on the failures of these systems. I can't imagine why you'd ask this here other than to shitpost

>How does your special snowflake reendition fix the issue of beuracratic privilege that's plagued socialist countries since the rise of the Soviet Union?
This is also a problem in capitalist countries, especially ours.
> how do you provide people with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers, other than forcing them to under penalty of law?
When's the last time you've heard a physicist or an doctor say 'I did it for the money'? The only high skilled job I can think of that pays well that people do mostly for the money is petroleum engineer.

Compare infant mortality rates in Cuba to other countries with similar HDI and even to the US. The results speak for themselves. I don't understand what you are trying to say, are you disputing that a doctor is not a high skilled job?

>high quality medical institutions
You are a low IQ moron spreading lies about a country you know nothing about on the internet

>You are a low IQ moron spreading lies about a country you know nothing about on the internet

Cuban medical facilities being good outside of one or two for the elite and foreigners is one of the biggest myths in the world

[citation needed]

Have you ever actually SEEN a hospital in this country you praise? I know you haven't because your worldview is based entirely on political platitudes, with a total disregard for those who suffer under the institutions you defend

data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN

Real life, statistics, etc...

>Have you ever actually SEEN a hospital in this country you praise? I know you haven't because your worldview is based entirely on political platitudes, with a total disregard for those who suffer under the institutions you defend

No, but my friend who has been there has. Have you? Instead of condescending rhetorical questions and insults I'd actually like to here your perspective

So no source. I've seen the statistics and they don't back up your point which is why I asked. I'm willing to adjust my viewpoint but I don't know what stats I'm supposed to look at...

see
>Cuban medical facilities being good outside of one or two for the elite and foreigners

>I want a non-meme answer

But socialism IS a meme

You aren't though because no one besides you thinks it is good

See

>You aren't though because no one besides you thinks it is good

This is false and you know it

>But socialism IS a meme
This is true but not all memes are bad

OK. Is that not true for most capitalist countries though? I mean when you account for capitalist countries at the same level of development, the Cuban ones do seem better from a distance at least. Could you elaborate on this and what it says about Cuba's governance?

This makes Cuba look like its doing a decent job at something at least. I don't know how anyone can see this and say that they haven't been able to find high skilled workers, which was the point I made bringing it up anyway. Not even saying Cuba is good, just saying they have a lot of high skilled people

I wrote a big post but I accidentally deleted it

Your image is a strawman. Karl Marx explained Capitalism in 3 books of more than 600 pages each.

>How does your special snowflake reendition fix the issue of beuracratic privilege that's plagued socialist countries since the rise of the Soviet Union?
Democracy, equality and trial exams for higher posts, while providing free education and allowing for easy promotions.

> how do you provide people with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers, other than forcing them to under penalty of law?
Like said, plus there were wages tiers in the Soviet Union. A socialist state would be much more at dilemma with harsh work (mining, farming...), since it is ethically considered slavery, but is needed for a successful society.

Yes and what about other stats in healthcare.

No one is trying to say that those countries are good. Cuba being good is meme spread by the left. While in fact it's common to have 10 year old girls sucking Canadian dicks so their families can eat.

America should annex Cuba finally, not sure what we're pussyfooting around. Shoulda done it after the war with Spain already.

My government is not a mixed economy. Now this are.

Besides, corruption is a mater of fucking culture. Which is why I hate this place.

Why would you want them ? They will bring all your stats down, and you're already at the level of 3rd-world countries in a lot of them.
>muh niggers
Not an excuse

Been in Cuba
Looks like Brazil in the sense of socio-economical disparity
The difference is the "rich" in Cuba are tourists, every Cuban is poor as fuck and at the small sight of a tourist they will beg for money. Really sad.
>BUT MUH UNIVERSAL EDUCATION/HEALTHCARE
Every taxi driver from Havanna has a "Medical Degree" or "Engineer Degree". What's the point? People just aren't hungry because the goverment makes a big effort to provide the strict minimum to eat but even so, it's not enough for a healthy population.

Only irrelevant Yuros give a shit about stats.

>Let us became EVEN MORE of a shithole, that'll show them

Americans

I'm saying a "Cuban Medical Degree" is not even equal to a nursing degree in anywhere but subsaharan Africa. As told to me by literal Cuban "doctors" in Venezuela. They know it's a scam and hilariously enough you don't.

We don't need to show anyone if we're on the top. Eat some more semen Muhammad and leave relevant countries alone.

it could work if we created a completely impartial AI with its own police force that ruled over humans and assigned rewards based on effort/skill or whatever metric is supposed to be important

How can it be an excuse when it is the truth

>literally requiring God existing to even function

>I'm saying a "Cuban Medical Degree" is not even equal to a nursing degree in anywhere but subsaharan Africa. As told to me by literal Cuban "doctors" in Venezuela. They know it's a scam and hilariously enough you don't.

Subsaharan African countries are capitalist. How does the quality of the education decline because of the economic system? I don't understand.

Yeah, call me Muhammed, what a great argument

data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DTH.COMM.ZS
data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN

>being so anally obsessed about a country you have to bring up some irrelevant autistic statistics

Not true.
Socialism needs democracy like the human body requires oxygen. (Trotsky)

The real answer is your absurdly high inequality levels

>Not true.
>Socialism needs democracy like the human body requires oxygen. (Trotsky)
no, the only way it would work is if humans were completely removed from the equation, it is obvious to anyone with a critical thought that communism/socialism fails because of corruption and human nature

. Lets see cancer survival rates, rates of heart attack and stroke survival, etc...

Or will they be lower because more people die from simple shit like the flu or malnourishment

These two things do not have to be opposite to each other, they can both exist. Infant mortality rate reduction could be linked to the number of medical professionals who aren't necessarily as highly trained as equivalent professionals abroad but there are more of them and so general care improves greatly. Outlier care for severe cases of birth problems may be as bad, or better becuase the high trained (specialist) doctors have more time due to the number of lesser trained ones.

>high inequality

No shit, niggers aren't equal to normal people.

Racist

People in Cuba get medical degrees so they can live better lives in africa and attempt to run away if they get the chance

God I hate talking to you brainwashed zealots. In Venezuela it's the same way, you true believers just bury your heads in the ground and keep shouting WAHHH CAPITALIST IMPERIALIST CIA WAAAAAHHHH.
How can I make it any more simple? You say Cuba has many doctors per capita. But being Venezuelan, I've experienced first hand how in order to "spread education to the masses", socialist governments ala Cuba or Venezuela will entirely remove entrance requirements to universities and dumb down curriculums so that they can pretend everyone has a higher education. I'm Venezuela they forced every university to stop doing entrance exams and to graduate by quotas, not achievement.
Hence, Cuban healthcare is run by doctors who wouldn't rate the title in Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, etc. So that they can inflate their statistics. They have less training than nurses in almost any other country. Do you understand now?

>Or will they be lower because more people die from simple shit like the flu
Stats posted show we have the same rate of death from communicable diseases as them.
>or malnourishment
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/
>cancer
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/all-cancers/by-country/
>stroke
worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/stroke/by-country/

That's not an argument for or against what i said, its you not knowing what to say to offering your opinion on something you think is related.

That's arguable, but for many, socialism hasn't really been tried, the Soviet Union was "simply" state capitalism.

Your solution is arguably worse, because it enslaves humans to the whim of an higher entity, while socialism was specifically created to free the people from oppression.
By the way, socialism isn't about just reward for just effort, it's about (in essence, I'm simplifying here) providing the basic necessities to everyone, regardless of their contribution.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

No it's literal fact. These people have handlers that keep them on tight schedules and close watch

Did you bother to look at the results

We have double the malnutrition death rate as them, we have roughly the same cancer rate, and a stroke survival rate better than almost all of Europe.

I was looking at the wrong graph. Better than almost all of Europe is cancer, stroke is only better than half of Europe.

>with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers

if the only incentive to be high skilled is money than thats worthless anyway, somehow ppl still wanted to be engineers and doctors
the salaries were not the same

its not desireable because:
it is not global, you make a system which isnt based on competition in a competitive world

todays globalism will not lead to socialism mind you

So you think education should be reserved for an elite class? That's your point? If say, Finland, or another country that is known for having a free-for-citizens, high quality, universal education system, implemented a socialist governance, do you think their education system would decline? If so, why?

>They have less training than nurses in almost any other country.

I'm skeptical of this still, but sure, I'll take your word for it.

>My government is not a mixed economy.
So it's pure laissez-faire capitalism?

Finland is not socialist tho, it's a social-democracy, which could be the ultimate (and arguably best) stage of Capitalism.

It's been heading towards it since late 80's, yes.

I'm not a socialist. Just want to mention.

There are problems with the capitalist system.
The most important of it is the Rezession and Depression.
When no growth can be achieved.
There is a book in German but I'm sure it's also available in other languages called "Die Grenzen des Wachstums" (The limits of growth).

A big company needs money to run smoothly.
This money comes from the consumers but the pay happens most of the time much later compared to the investment.
That means you stick money into a production for example and it will take up to month until the first custommers can buy your product.
This is solved through loans from banks.
So you have to achieve a basic profit to be able to pay your loans with the interest rates.
Then bigger companies are also most of the time joint-stock companies.
This way you can get money without the interestrates (you will still need money from the bank).
Now you're also dependent to the shareholders which get a cut of the profits.

Today we have the Situation that the consummer demand doesn't grow as fast as companies need it to be, The companies run not profitable enough. So even they look like they make profits they actually shrink and make losses.
What Bank will give a company money that is shrinking? What shareholder will invest there?
The company reacts through increasing it's efficiency. Producing the same amount for less money since a bigger amount can't be sold.
This means Worker are fired, replaced by mashines if possible or single workers simply have to do more work in the same time.
Jobless people (people without income/money) are in general very bad consumers. What decreases the growth of the demand just more.
A spiral that slowly poors down the capitalist countries enables.
You can see this by studying Japan since the the 90s, looking at Europe now.
The USA can increase it's consumerism mainly through immigration. A growing population also means a growing market.

Whoever takes the time, thanks.

So how would you fix these problems?

I would probably win some Noble prices if I would know.

If I knew.

Although doctors get the same pay as laborers, you can't claim that doctors receive the same as laborers. More appreciation, higher social standing.

Also, if I can believe what my Russian mentor at the time said, people would get letters from the government saying 'you go champ!'.

Also, money always finds a way to gravitate towards the smart and powerful. Even in communism.

Regardless, communism failed.

In the end I believe both capitalism and communism to stop existing at some point though.

Isn't there a referendum in Switzerland (this year) that could potentially end the bubble-recession economy?

this, the problem is capitalism apparently can't deal with anything but growth.
So far technology and more resource exploitation took care of it but new technologies becomes ever more complicated and resources are limited

Some solutions done are:
Decreasing the key interest rate.
Lowering taxes for the middleclass.

First action relieves a little of a companies loan and interest rate burden (examples of even a negative interestrates were done in Sweden and Switzerland).
Second Action boosts the consumerism but gives a lack in the houshold of the country.

2009 there was something called "Konjunturpacket" done in Germany. It's basically increased state spendings on Buildings, Streets etc. to boost economy,

All of this Solutions do not solve the problem in longterm because the demand will decrease further. No people, no buyers.

Make us all rich so single people can simply buy more. How ever this can be done. But even this would just buy some time.

What is it about?

its not a solution to the problem, growth is limited no matter how much economists and capitalists wish not to be true

i can only eat a bread a day, i dont need more, i cant eat more, same for the rest of the population
consuming is limited, building an entire society around consuming will fail

Even when the average American is able to eat 5 breads.
It won't help. Even the very fat one has his limits.

Just want to further elaborate. :^)

the obvious solution is to raise the population
which led us to an overcrowded planet

Space and resources are also limited.
You mentioned it already.

blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2016/01/27/is-this-the-end-of-fractional-reserve-banking/

"The campaign - led by the Swiss Sovereign Money movement and known as the Vollgeld initiative - is designed to limit financial speculation by requiring private banks to hold 100pc reserves against their deposits."

Forget all other referendums, this is the most ground-breaking one out there.
It has reached the 100,000 signature treshold, but a date has not been set.

I'll read it thanks.

You can increase the consumer base (expanding the EU, immigration) but this makes a more efficient resource management necessary what can be done.
Still only buys time and doesn't solce anything.

OK I read it.
At this moment I can't imagine how this can work in any other country besides Switzerland.
Swiss banks have stored the by far most money of all banks.

Here in Germany for example it would mean that less money can be lend (much less) what will cause a very dramatic economic crisis.

I don't think this could end all booms and bubbles (which are caused by government artificially setting interest rates)

>beuracratic privilege
Internal control, transparency, listening to consumer (citizen) feedback, placing emphasis on rule of law and ethos of service.
Obviously this is not perfect, but no system is, especially not if made out of imperfect parts.

>how do you provide people with incentive to train for and take high-skill jobs when they're going to make as much as low-skilled workers
Well if you're assuming that socialism wants total and complete equality of outcome or complete eradication of any competition then you'd be hard pressed to find any actual socialists. I'm going to assume this is just a very stupid strawman and pretend that your actual question was "how do you keep people from choosing a system where reward for success and punishment for failure is greater", to which my question would be that I wouldn't. If people prefer to work for their own benefit even at expense of good of the whole community, it's really their choice.

I'd like to imagine a world where reward is differentiated by skill and effort, but even the unskilled is always assured to have his elementary needs like food, shelter, healthcare and education for his offspring met, paid for by contribution of those more skilled than he. That requires the people to value this sort of thing, however.

In case you were serious I'll just point out that
1. monetary reward is not the only incentive for people when they choose their occupation. It might come as surprise to you but some people really like their job.
2. monetary reward is still differentiated between occupations with bracketed income tax, the differentiation is merely smaller
3. income you get from a job is not determined by social benefit. Just because someone is making 10 times more than you doesn't mean he's contributing 10 times as you to the economic pie. It might work that way if all transactions were made at arms length, between knowledgeable parties and with no externalities, but that's simply not the case.

>(which are caused by government artificially setting interest rates)

>

Send women back home and pay the men twice as much.

>Finland is not socialist tho, it's a social-democracy, which could be the ultimate (and arguably best) stage of Capitalism.

I know, thats why I said "if"

You're right, the only thing it will probably do, regardless of whether it passes, is light up debate in countries.
Switzerland, however, is quite the authority when it comes to banking, so there's really no way to know what it will cause to happen.

Interest rates do have a base, and if a government sets an interest rate, they will also lose more on interest payments. Not that 'certain governments' seem to care in how much debt they are.

Btw I just thought it was interesting, I don't think it will solve all capitalism's problems.

>(which are caused by government artificially setting interest rates
I thought your Federal Reserve makes them.
Here it's dine by the European Central Bank.

Both are non Goverment Organizations.

>I want a non-meme answer
>"special snowflake"
nice one

Central bank sets interest rates vis-a-vis commercial banks.
The rates that are actually relevant and important for business decisions are set independently by the banks themselves (LIBOR, EURIBOR...).

Neither of these rates *cause* business cycle, although they do have impact on it and can slow it down or exacerbate it.

Also central bank is a branch of government. It should be independent and have a relatively unambiguous mandate (like price stability, or price stability and economic development like in US) but it is essentially still a state authority (and it's a good thing it is, no matter what buttcoiners think)

the federal reserve isn't a government branch

See: the nordic countries

But it is. It carries out mandate given to it by law, its governing body is appointed by the president, its income is income of federal government.

It's designed to be very independent and with participation of private banks, but it's absolutely an entity that carries authority of and is beholden to the state, not a private enterprise.

No but not just anybody should be able to get into med school

Yes, but the discrimination should be done by skill of the students, not by wealth of their parents - or quota of graduates set by the government...