What is Sup Forums's opinion on Purism laptops?
>libre hardware
>anodized aluminium chassis
>respects your privacy and freedom
Purism laptops
Jace Phillips
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puri.sm
archive.today
archive.today
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
archive.today
archive.today
archive.today
github.com
puri.sm
phoronix.com
puri.sm
puri.sm
github.com
twitter.com
Lucas Allen
It's a cool concept, and they look nice, but the price isn't the most appealing
Austin Collins
Most of their models still ship with a normal proprietary bios, lel
Luke Perry
>Intel
>libre
Henry Jackson
interesting find
unfortunately shipping is very expensive for non-us clients
Jack Murphy
>pic related
they disable the IEM
Levi Gonzalez
Neat. But a bit pricey for me.
Blake Lee
How does this do a bios mod as an update? Is the OS a special version that is Purism aware?
Justin Wright
>those prices
>for those shit specs
HAHAHAH - NO
Jace Young
They make great progress on reverse engineering the IME, the blog posts about their efforts are really interesting.
puri.sm
Gavin Lewis
It's a niche product, stop crying about it being pricey.
X200 librebooted thinkpads are like 1k each.
Connor Peterson
not true. with a little bit of luck and patience, you can get one on ebay for sub-300 EUR, like I did.
Jacob Wood
Seems more like a mass market product turned expensive without features to match.
Noah Ross
> I dont want jobs to ve outsourced to China and have my phone made by 12 year old googs paid $100 a month
> I want cheaper things
Choose one
John Thomas
unless theyve stripped ime out of microcode manually they haven't """neutered""" it
Ethan Morris
>1.400$ for this noname shit
lmao
Luis Young
I only want the second. Never cared about the first.
Carter Richardson
This
Ian Miller
>intel cpus
Xavier Green
>coreboot
>not libreboot
This shit is not free at all
Justin Sanders
You can disable intel ME using coreboot
And it is probably compadible with SJW/Libreboot
Jace Wilson
I've been following them for a few months. I really like what I've seen. I pre-ordered the tablet. Seems like it's something gonna be a while before they can make it happen, but I'm trying to support them
Parker James
>You can disable intel ME using coreboot
And? Still non-free.
Cameron Brooks
it was only this year that they hired a developer that can actually port their laptops to coreboot rather than relying on google engineers to do it half assedly for them, and as far as intel me goes at best they run me_cleaner on the laptop which "neutralises" a lot of the ime but still leaves some of the ime intact (which is something *anyone* can do)
before this they did basically no work themselves and only sold oem laptops with hardware kill switches and the few laptops they sold with coreboot weren't full ports
they want to run on the same platform libreboot is running on without any of the stringent requirements that libreboot has, sure, libreboot/minifree might eventually end up selling an x220(maybe x230) (rather than the core2duo x200) with me_cleaner ran but they at least acknowledge the limitations and they actually *are* trying to fully remove ime (either through software but a hardware bypass is looking more likely) on these laptops rather than what purism is doing which is selling the latest skylake cpu laptops with coreboot and pretending that one day they'll port the laptops to libreboot and get fsf approval (pic related)
there's a reason why libreboot only currently supports core2duos and are trying to port the x220 (sandy bridge) and it's not because they're fetishising old hardware
basically, if you want a libre laptop get an old thinkpad and flash libreboot, but if you don't mind settling for some oem coreboot laptops purism won't be that bad (but be warned, they do *not* have a good track record)
>they disable the IEM
false
>How does this do a bios mod as an update?
I'd be curious to find out how they do this also
Levi Long
Found on the OpenBSD mailing list:
It appears there is a big lie going on about this machine
The "absolutely no mystery code" is fake, the same page say:
"which includes a binary from Intel, called FSP."
The FPS is the Firmware Package Support[1]. It have "CPU, memory controller,
and Intel(R) chipset initialization functions as a binary package".
- Run proprietary microcode[2];
- Blobs on Embedded Controller[3];
- Support Intel "features" (Management Engines):
- SMM [4], It have many allegations of backdoor inside;
- SMC [5] . It's a mechanism that have total controll of your hardware;
- AMT[6] (Active Management Technology); and
- This processor have a cryptoprocessor (or accelerator, I don't know exactly)
inside [7]. This processor perform the "Intel Indentity Protection Technology"
(on Public Key Generation step) and AES acceleration (if enabled).
Intel already have accusations about backdoor on this [8].
OpenBSD don't allow this to run.
- Blobs on GPU. It run a Intel Iris Pro 5200, that is VBIOS closed;
- Blobs on USB 3.0; and
- The SSD/HDD have blobs on microcontrollers on drive board.
If you want something more "free", try out some ARM board, like SABRE lite or
something like that.
[1] archive.today
[2] archive.today
[3] en.wikipedia.org
[4] en.wikipedia.org
[5] en.wikipedia.org
[6] archive.today
[7] archive.today
[8] archive.today
Caleb Edwards
>dual-core Intel CPU
>integrated graphics
>8-16 GB DDR3 (+$300 for 16GB)
>SSD main storage
>$1100+
wew lad
Dylan Williams
You should use foss CPUs instead like Risc-v
Robert Jackson
>They make great progress on reverse engineering the IME
they aren't doing anything, they are working on the backs of giants
me_cleaner is not their work - github.com
puri.sm
>First, I need to give some shout out to Igor Skochinsky, a Hex-Rays developer, who had been working on reverse engineering the Intel ME for a while, and who has been very generous in sharing his notes and research on the ME with us, which is going to be a huge help and cut down months of reverse engineering and guesswork. Igor was very helpful in getting me to understand the bits that didn’t make sense to me.
>The first thing I wanted to try and reverse was the ROMP module. It is one of the two modules that me_cleaner doesn’t remove, and given how small it is (less than 1KB of code+data), I thought it would be a good starting point.
wew they manage to reverse engineer less than *1KB* of ime after having me_cleaner "neutralise" most of the ime and after having a third party give them months or reverse engineering research
>X200 librebooted thinkpads are like 1k each.
minifree (from the libreboot dev) offer them at €560 starting price which has a huge markup but the cost of doing libreboot yourself is around €80-100 in flashing hardware plus however much you're willing to spend on the x200 yourself, and let me tell you, good luck finding a good condition x200 with a decent battery these days
sub €300 as says is easily possible if going the huge diy route
on top of that said libreboot dev spent $10k having a server motherboard ported to core+libreboot among other things I've not been in the loop on, what are purism doing with the huge markup they charge exactly?
>you can't make money as a foss developer
>wtf foss developers are charging money for their work
Josiah Long
Looks like this Purism stuff does not live up to the hype after all.
Ryan Robinson
Based rat man at it again
Dominic Clark
Litterally read the second half of the response
Sebastian Howard
It's a scam
Angel Williams
>uses Tox for its IM
and thats how you know this is utter shit
Logan Morgan
Based on other responses it seem to me it is a scam.
Go buy a thinkpad and flash libreboot if you want security, or else get the same deal laptop from system76 at least they don't promise what they can't deliver.
Ayden Young
So what are they actually lying about? It sounds to me like they are honest about what they actually deliver. And that they are working on changing and fixing things that aren't currently fully free
Josiah Miller
purism are oem laptops and while they rent the facilities themselves I seriously doubt they're not outsourcing the manufacturing work to china
they run me_cleaner which removes some of the more suspicious me modules but you're right - they're still laptops which still need (the remaining) ime to function
>You can disable intel ME using coreboot
no you can't, me_cleaner doesn't remove all of intel me because there's no existing workaround for the 30 min timeout on any intel cpu post core2 days
>And it is probably compadible with SJW/Libreboot
no it won't be
William Morris
>fanless
>low-noise fan
>$1300 for a throttling piece of shit
>implying I give a shit if the wageslaves are from china or US
Jack Long
They have a post about running successfully for 30 minutes without the timeout. And there's a video of it running for more than 30 minutes as proof. That problem is solved
Xavier Gonzalez
>Purism laptops
You mean Autism laptops, right?
Jack Jackson
>Intel
>SystemD
no thanks
Jason Nelson
those are clevo lol
Michael Perez
while I'll happily accept anyone who wants to shit on purism's marketing bollocks, I have to correct some misinformation in that mailing list post
>mixed with a flopped PR campaign by RMS that is settling for accepting a failure rather than admitting defeat.
the fsf/rms have nothing to do with purism, for years coreboot/libreboot/google engineers/etc have been criticising purism for over promising and under delivering on making a truly libre laptop while promising that one day they'll meet fsf recommendation
here's a phornix post from 2015: phoronix.com
and here's a purism blog addressing said criticism: puri.sm
>GluGlug laptops are great! We would like to extend an open invitation to the GluGlug developers to work with us in freeing the remaining blobs.
(gluglug rebranded to minifree which is from the primary libreboot developer for those out of the loop)
it's all marketing wank from purism, any serious fsf cultists want nothing to do with them
(and fwiw the fsf/rms have said nothing publicly endorsing or recommending purism and the fact that purism recommend nonfree software means they can't receive fsf recommendation under fsf guidelines)
Robert Bell
>That problem is solved
puri.sm
>I am happy to say that neutralizing the ME works! I investigated the effectiveness of neutralizing the Management Engine using the me_cleaner tool (which is an amazing feat of the community), and then I tested to make sure the ME was indeed neutralized and that the Librem 13 stays on for over 30 minutes.
to reiterate what I literally just said, me_cleaner does not remove the whole management engine because it's required to run modern intel cpus (starting from nehalem) for longer than 30 minutes because the pc will shut down if there's no management engine found until a workaround is developed, which does not exist yet
github.com
github.com
what me_cleaner does is remove a lot of the fat and non-necessary modules from ime leaving a far more neutralised management engine (around 80kb of it), what it does *not* do is completely remove or disable the ime
it gets even worse because on skylake cpus (all of the modern purism laptops) it won't even remove any nonessential modules, as per the me_cleaner wiki:
>Removes any non-essential LZMA or Huffman compressed module from the FTPR partition (pre-Skylake only)
>Relocates the remaining parts of the FTPR partition to the top of the ME region (pre-Skylake only)
>Based on the results on Trammel Hudson (again, on the coreboot ML) I improved me_cleaner by removing also the LZMA-compressed modules in the FTPR partition (more or less half of the modules in the partition).
if you want a laptop with *no* management engine then get a core2duo thinkpad and flash libreboot to it (or wait to see how well the full me removal on the x220 goes)
(if you want to go even further, coreboot isn't even ported to the librem 13v2 yet, only the librem 13v1 which has a haswell cpu not skylake)